I refuse to purchase "kindles" "androids" "Ipads" or anything else that won't let me install and execute code of my choosing. Even the internet is being carved up into closed proprietary niches like Hulu and Netflix. It's not good.

Babwa Wawa: Every single one of those purpose-built, closed devices can be made to install and execute code of your choosing.

Not without violating the EULA. Which can include other bizarre things, like Amazon revoking the book you 'bought.' If they can find a way to make money, they will. With everything going toward "the cloud" and closed platforms this going to become more and more of a problem.

Babwa Wawa: That doesn't make it a "war on general purpose computing"; it's simply an evolution of computing.

Exactly.

You can open a Sears-Roebuck catalog from 100 years ago, and there you'll find motors and engines for sale. And they're so handy! You can use one to power your home's water pump, or drive your farming implement, turn the crank on your wash tub, whatever you want!

It didn't take long before consumers decided they'd rather just have dedicated devices for those tasks... all of them with motors and engines built-in.

Babwa Wawa: DarnoKonrad: I refuse to purchase "kindles" "androids" "Ipads" or anything else that won't let me install and execute code of my choosing. Even the internet is being carved up into closed proprietary niches like Hulu and Netflix. It's not good.

Here's the problem with the blogger's stance, and yours as well (aside from the fact that you can do whatever you want with Android): As hardware prices drop, it makes sense that people will migrate from GP computers to purpose-built devices (even if that purpose is mobile computing). That doesn't make it a "war on general purpose computing"; it's simply an evolution of computing.

Every single one of those purpose-built, closed devices can be made to install and execute code of your choosing. Quite often, moving between the closed device and the open device is as simple as a reboot into an alternate OE. Linux is alive and well, as is BSD. I may be compelled to utilize a closed environment in order to get access to content, but as soon as I'm done consuming that content, I'll boot out of it and into a GP OE.

Now, will my mother-in-law or wife ever bother to boot out of the closed operating environment? Probably not. But it doesn't matter because they're not the ones writing the code to put into those aeronautical systems, health systems, and so forth.

The issue here is that even if the OS is closed, these are still GP systems. The hardware is the GP, not the OS. The main reason is that everyone uses the same parts so they have to be set up to be used with a verity of things. GPUs used to be an example of a non-GP system. This was hardware that could only do one thing. You could not use your GPU to run anything except graphics. Now adays of course with the advent of CUDA your GPU can be used to brute force passwords even faster then then your CPU.

Consequently anything you do to "secure" anything with a computer in it ends up undermining the capabilities and security of every other corner of modern human society.

What a complete pile of wharrgarrbl steaming crap.

DarnoKonrad: Babwa Wawa: Every single one of those purpose-built, closed devices can be made to install and execute code of your choosing.

Not without violating the EULA. Which can include other bizarre things, like Amazon revoking the book you 'bought.' If they can find a way to make money, they will. With everything going toward "the cloud" and closed platforms this going to become more and more of a problem.

The only way to win is not to play.

DarnoKonrad: I refuse to purchase "kindles" "androids" "Ipads" or anything else that won't let me install and execute code of my choosing.

On most if not all android devices, including the kindle, you can install and execute whatever you want. You can just drop any .apk file onto the device and run it and it will install your app. There is a setting you have to turn on to allow it ("unknown sources" in the application section of the settings).

I've read reptilian shapeshifter conspiracies which were more coherent and likely.

Declaring anything a "war on ____" is a bad start, if you want to be taken seriously.

DarnoKonrad: Babwa Wawa: Every single one of those purpose-built, closed devices can be made to install and execute code of your choosing.

Not without violating the EULA. Which can include other bizarre things, like Amazon revoking the book you 'bought.' If they can find a way to make money, they will. With everything going toward "the cloud" and closed platforms this going to become more and more of a problem.

Are you really sure about that or are you assuming that everything works like Apple devices in this regard? To the best of my knowledge sideloading an application on an Android device is not a violation any EULA or even the warranty. It does not require rooting the device, installing a different OS or doing anything other than checking one standard setting.

You can have my personal computer when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

subby's headline is a sentence fragment.

DarnoKonrad: I refuse to purchase "kindles" "androids" "Ipads" or anything else that won't let me install and execute code of my choosing. Even the internet is being carved up into closed proprietary niches like Hulu and Netflix. It's not good.

Most "androids" will, indeed, let you install and execute code of your choosing.

Cory Doctorow? No thank you, I've been suckered into his boring-ass shiatty fiction a couple times and now know never ever ever to read anything he wrote. I'm sure as hell not going to watch a 55 minute video of him.

The best thing about boing-boing is it's a great way to learn what to avoid. If they say to read, watch, listen to, or buy something, you can be pretty confident that not doing any of that stuff will be a good decision.

as long as i can use the same workstation to render CAD/graphics/shoop and play steam games and look at pr0n and use word processors, i'm cool

there will never be an end to "general purpose computing" because nobody ever wants to own multiple devices that can fail, they just want 1 device

This isn't a hardware or software issue, it's a licensing debacle.
How to get paid for your work without strangling the system, and how to deal with the orphaned technology that was strangled by its former proprietors.

I predict: total chaos while gigs worth of valued product is mishandled and lost or stolen...

It's going to be particularly painful for gamers of today, as their cherished memories get locked away in IP vaults made of kindling and flash paper, after the black boxes that run them are replaced in the usual cycle of things.

jake_lex: And I'd point out to him that there are tons of users on his beloved "general purpose" computers that are using them exactly like an iPad or other "closed" device: they go to Facebook, they watch kitten videos on YouTube, they check their mail. Why do they need a "general purpose" computer? Maybe giving them a simpler, easier-to-use, and more reliable user experience will free them to try other things with tehir computers in the end.

But maybe that's all they want to do with their computers? Personally, I do my own hardware upgrades, install my own OS, all that stuff. But I also couldn't give a shiat about maintaining my car. I just want it to get me from a to b. My garage man does that for me. He's the expert.

And there's no shortage of DIY options. I upgraded a PC from 4GB to 12GB the other day. No-one stopped me doing it. Ordered, fitted, job done.

jake_lex: I don't get Doctorow's point here at all. I mean, I can write my manifesto on Pages on an iPad, I can call for an #occupywherever protest from the Twitter app on a Kindle Fire, etc. etc. This reads like Doctorow trying to prove how cool and awesome he is that he still uses the command line to do everything.

And I'd point out to him that there are tons of users on his beloved "general purpose" computers that are using them exactly like an iPad or other "closed" device: they go to Facebook, they watch kitten videos on YouTube, they check their mail. Why do they need a "general purpose" computer? Maybe giving them a simpler, easier-to-use, and more reliable user experience will free them to try other things with tehir computers in the end.

You're right; for 80% of people, a closed device is sufficient.

The problem is, the other 20% are the people who actually create things for the 80% to do with their closed devices. And not all of these guys work for the big tech firms. The loss of easily-available GP computing devices would kill them, and cement the control of corporate America while wrecking the speed of innovation and locking consumers into high-priced proprietary schemes.

Without MythTV and Tivo, would the DVR have happened? Without XBMC, would Roku? Without Napster and Bittorrent, would iTunes and Netflix and Hulu? This is how it always happens; killer apps are developed on GP devices first, then proprietary devices and services come later to leverage what has been made (in some cases, to provide a legitimate alternative to something that's shady, in others, simply to provide a turnkey solution to something that requires a bit of geekery). And thus, even the 80% of people that don't have an immediate need for a general-purpose computer benefit from its ready availability and the geekery of the other 20% of us, if only eventually.

I wish these 'l33t h4x0r' conferences would stop using silly names like, '28C3, the Chaos Computer Congress'.

I realize the name itself says nothing about the validity of their arguments, it's just hard to take them seriously.

Beyond that, I mostly disagree with this guy. There is no war *against* general computing - it's just that there are now other types of computers that do stuff too. His command line only Linux distro (probably some customized version of Gentoo) will continue to exist. It's just lots of people are using other computers and.....right or wrong.....the companies making and selling them want to restrict what they allow to happen on those devices.

Personally, as someone who has worked tech-support; I think this is a good thing.

The sky is falling! We use computers to make airplanes fly safer and more fuel efficiently! Clearly the end times are upon us.

Doctorow is an idiot.

Fark_Guy_Rob: I wish these 'l33t h4x0r' conferences would stop using silly names like, '28C3, the Chaos Computer Congress'.

I realize the name itself says nothing about the validity of their arguments, it's just hard to take them seriously.

Beyond that, I mostly disagree with this guy. There is no war *against* general computing - it's just that there are now other types of computers that do stuff too. His command line only Linux distro (probably some customized version of Gentoo) will continue to exist. It's just lots of people are using other computers and.....right or wrong.....the companies making and selling them want to restrict what they allow to happen on those devices.

Personally, as someone who has worked tech-support; I think this is a good thing.

But it's one thing for them to come with a locked down OS. It's another to prevent even knowledgable users for being able to install their own with locked bootloaders. (Apple, and carriers like Verizon)

Sure it starts with Verizon locking your bootloader, which is fine for 90% of users. But this latest round has gone uncracked for months, with some saying they won't be (Damn, I really wanted a Rezound, too). It should be 100% illegal for Apple or Verizon not to allow me to install my own OS or software on a device. The device IS NOT theirs. I purchased it, it is mine. It's totally fine for them to say me doing so voids the warranty, but flatout preventing it is unacceptable. I get that normal users shouldn't be doing it, and that helps tech support. But the people willing to install their own OS are not bugging VZW tech support when they have issues.

Because People in power are Stupid: What I've never understood -is why don't GP computers take into account where a process order is coming from

Because that is more of a software issue than a hardware issue. Many computers already include a security framework in hardware. However, it is up to the operating system to properly restrict resources for a foreign executable.


DarnoKonrad: I refuse to purchase "kindles" "androids" "Ipads" or anything else that won't let me install and execute code of my choosing.

Android smartphones allow you to run any unsigned application by making a change in the system preferences. It was a major reason I purchased one over an iPhone. And some Android smartphones come with a system recovery mode that allows you to install unsigned kernels. You don't need to jailbreak the phone to install a 3rd party tool like ClockworkMod.

True, many Android smartphones still require you to jailbreak the phone for root access to install ClockworkMod. But those phones tend to be carrier subsidized units. It is the price you pay for a cheap phone. OTOH, carriers should be required to unlock the phones once your contract has expired, but that's another issue.

Playing devil's advocate here: I'm not against the idea of a smartphone (or any GP system) being locked down from the factory. For most people, living in a walled garden tends to protect them from their own stupidity. Sure, it inevitably means that the gatekeepers will censor some content they dislike, but that is a small price to pay to keep their systems healthy.

In the old days, somebody else's unhealthy system generally wasn't my concern. If their 386 got infected, that strain of infection stayed within the warez trading community. Today, that same person's PC can spew spam, attack websites, steal personal data and generally spew its destruction to everyone around. It does affect me. So in seeing the trend where Windows and Macintosh based systems are moving to centralized managed app stores, I can only lament it so much.

Having said all that, if I outright own the equipment, I should be able to have access to the key that unlocks that walled garden. And I should be able to stray some distance without fear of reprisal from the manufacturer (such as BS like having your hardware's warranty voided for running reasonable aftermarket software). And again, that is a major gripe that I have today, may it be OS locks or GSM SIM card locks.

Isn't this guy one of those ones that kept touting 'year of the linux desktop' over and over again?

DarnoKonrad: I refuse to purchase "kindles" "androids" "Ipads" or anything else that won't let me install and execute code of my choosing. Even the internet is being carved up into closed proprietary niches like Hulu and Netflix. It's not good.

Well, that actually makes you part of the problem, not the solution.... I believe the article contends that we are relying so much on automated computer systems, someone like you, who marches to his own beat, has the ability to muss everything up for the rest of the us.

HeartBurnKid:
You're right; for 80% of people, a closed device is sufficient.

The problem is, the other 20% are the people who actually create things for the 80% to do with their closed devices. And not all of these guys work for the big tech firms. The loss of easily-available GP computing devices would kill them, and cement the control of corporate America while wrecking the speed of innovation and locking consumers into high-priced proprietary schemes.

Without MythTV and Tivo, would the DVR have happened? Without XBMC, would Roku? Without Napster and Bittorrent, would iTunes and Netflix and Hulu? This is how it always happens; killer apps are developed on GP devices first, then proprietary devices and services come later to leverage what has been made (in some cases, to provide a legitimate alternative to something that's shady, in others, simply to provide a turnkey solution to something that requires a bit of geekery). And thus, even the 80% of people that don't have an immediate need for a general-purpose computer benefit from its ready availability and the geekery of the other 20% of us, if only eventually.

^this. all big companies are doing (perhaps not google) is attempting to increase the barriers to entry into the marketplace to something incredibly daunting so that only other huge companies can compete and only people they approve of can make computer programs. That way they kill off the things that circumvent their business models before they occur.

The above examples in the quote are excellent. competition is good for everyone - it spurs growth, advancement, and gives us better and better products each year at cheaper prices. Walled gardens and restrictions are only good for incumbents.

A computer that does not have the property of "general purpose" also doesn't have the property of "programmable". And is therefore less useful than an adding machine from 100 years ago.

Clicks on link...reads short paragraph.

*notes 55-minute video*

Day'am that guy's a slow reader!

akula: While moving to cloud applications will be great in some ways (computing devices will become smaller, cheaper, and more portable and data access will be more universal), in other ways it's going to seriously suck as you end up marrying an entire computing ecosystem. Your phone, tablet, and media choices will all be rolled into that which is provided by a given company. If you want to mix and match features, well, too damn bad.

The whole 'cloud' fad isn't being pushed hard for the convenience of the average end user. It's being pushed hard because it's an absurdly simple way to control what the average end user does, dressed up as convenience.

There's little good about it.

DarnoKonrad: I refuse to purchase "kindles" "androids" "Ipads" or anything else that won't let me install and execute code of my choosing. Even the internet is being carved up into closed proprietary niches like Hulu and Netflix. It's not good.

Seriously this! I also find it funny that the younger generations fall right into this whole marketing crapola and are dropping general purpose utilities like email for things like Facebook and Twitter.

J. Frank Parnell: I've read reptilian shapeshifter conspiracies which were more coherent and likely.

Declaring anything a "war on ____" is a bad start, if you want to be taken seriously.



I'm stealing this.

Thanks!

kab: akula: While moving to cloud applications will be great in some ways (computing devices will become smaller, cheaper, and more portable and data access will be more universal), in other ways it's going to seriously suck as you end up marrying an entire computing ecosystem. Your phone, tablet, and media choices will all be rolled into that which is provided by a given company. If you want to mix and match features, well, too damn bad.

The whole 'cloud' fad isn't being pushed hard for the convenience of the average end user. It's being pushed hard because it's an absurdly simple way to control what the average end user does, dressed up as convenience.

There's little good about it.

I never understood the benefit of cloud computing. All the commercials that sing it's praises show someone with a laptop accessing their home files. How about just copy the files straight to your laptop. It has memory too!

Quantumbunny: Sure it starts with Verizon locking your bootloader, which is fine for 90% of users. But this latest round has gone uncracked for months, with some saying they won't be (Damn, I really wanted a Rezound, too). It should be 100% illegal for Apple or Verizon not to allow me to install my own OS or software on a device. The device IS NOT theirs. I purchased it, it is mine. It's totally fine for them to say me doing so voids the warranty, but flatout preventing it is unacceptable.

THIS.

That's it exactly. From Sony killing local OS to Apple to Verizon, more and more, companies are extending their control of computing devices that WE purchase and own to prevent and control what we can and connot do with our own property. AND reserve the right to CHANGE that at their discretion.

Doctorow is an idiot, and may not be able to effectively articulate his point, but it is very simple:

If we buy a device, we own it, and we have the right to do with it as we see fit. Anything that circumvents or interferes with that right of first sale is an enroachment and should be stopped.

Yea, verily, so sayeth the Deus Mechanicus, so sayeth the Conclave of Mars. Amen.

Babwa Wawa: Here's the problem with the blogger's stance, and yours as well (aside from the fact that you can do whatever you want with Android): As hardware prices drop, it makes sense that people will migrate from GP computers to purpose-built devices (even if that purpose is mobile computing). That doesn't make it a "war on general purpose computing"; it's simply an evolution of computing.

I think there's an important between a dedicated, single purpose device (which may have an embedded computer) and something like an iPhone - which is specifically marketed as something that can run different applications, but exactly *which* applications can be run is limited by Apple, who use that control to extract money from application developers. How is that in the interest of anyone but Apple? It's not as if that limitation lets the iPad be cheap, because it isn't.

I don't expect it to be easy to reprogram the microcontroller in my washing machine, but if I spend £400 on an iPad only to be told that I can't run programs unless their author has paid Apple for their seal of approval, then I'll be a bit pissed off.

Dinjiin: And I should be able to stray some distance without fear of reprisal from the manufacturer (such as BS like having your hardware's warranty voided for running reasonable aftermarket software).

I see no problem with them voiding a warratny if you use your product in an unsupported way, so long as you are free to do it.

Ford won't warranty an engine if you custom mod the chip, and they are right to do so . If you over-clock your CPU and fry the motherboard, that's on you. If you load an OS on a device different from the one the maker provides, you can't expect them to be responsible for it. If you put a fuel-injection system on your riding lawnmower and burn out the axles, don;t expect John Deer to give you replacements for free.

As with your car, your lawnmower, your phone and your PC, if you own it you can do with it as you please. But it's on you if you break it. Manufacturers get to set the conditions for their warranty and support, and only if you meet those criteria are you entitled to warranty coverage. Whether thier warranty sucks or not is a purchase decision you have to make and you can always elect not to buy if you dislike the warranty more than you like the product.

/of course SOFTWARE warranties are effectively 'no warranties' anyways, so...

Rising Ape: Babwa Wawa: Here's the problem with the blogger's stance, and yours as well (aside from the fact that you can do whatever you want with Android): As hardware prices drop, it makes sense that people will migrate from GP computers to purpose-built devices (even if that purpose is mobile computing). That doesn't make it a "war on general purpose computing"; it's simply an evolution of computing.

I think there's an important between a dedicated, single purpose device (which may have an embedded computer) and something like an iPhone - which is specifically marketed as something that can run different applications, but exactly *which* applications can be run is limited by Apple, who use that control to extract money from application developers. How is that in the interest of anyone but Apple? It's not as if that limitation lets the iPad be cheap, because it isn't.

I don't expect it to be easy to reprogram the microcontroller in my washing machine, but if I spend £400 on an iPad only to be told that I can't run programs unless their author has paid Apple for their seal of approval, then I'll be a bit pissed off.

Wouldn't you spend the £400 on an iPad after checking which products allow you to run 3rd-party programmes? Indeed, instead of biatching about the Apple business model, wouldn't the appropriate response be to create a machine that competes with the iPad and which is open to third party development?

akula: DarnoKonrad: With everything going toward "the cloud" and closed platforms this going to become more and more of a problem.

It is indeed.

While moving to cloud applications will be great in some ways (computing devices will become smaller, cheaper, and more portable and data access will be more universal), in other ways it's going to seriously suck as you end up marrying an entire computing ecosystem. Your phone, tablet, and media choices will all be rolled into that which is provided by a given company. If you want to mix and match features, well, too damn bad.

I really wonder if we're about to revert to a type of computing world we saw 30-40 years ago- all the real work was done on the mainframe and you couldn't really mix and match IBM, Sperry, Apple, etc. You picked one and lived with it. Only this time it won't be limited to a given building; with the ubiquity of high speed internet, it will be wherever you happen to be. You'll be using Apple, Amazon, or Google, and that will be your world. Good luck interchanging anything with people from another ecosystem.

That what I was thinking until I went to the Open Source Business Conference months ago. There is ALREADY a middle market meant to meet the demand of bridging the different cloud environments. Since it seems (from a business perspective) one of the biggest barriers to adoption is portability, I suspect that with things like the Open Cloud Manifesto that businesses aren't going to have this issue.

That being said from a consumer standpoint, it looks a lot more like what you are describing - you sign up with a provider and are locked in.

Mr_Fabulous: Babwa Wawa: That doesn't make it a "war on general purpose computing"; it's simply an evolution of computing.

Exactly.

You can open a Sears-Roebuck catalog from 100 years ago, and there you'll find motors and engines for sale. And they're so handy! You can use one to power your home's water pump, or drive your farming implement, turn the crank on your wash tub, whatever you want!

It didn't take long before consumers decided they'd rather just have dedicated devices for those tasks... all of them with motors and engines built-in.

And yet I can still go buy motors and wood and metal and build whatever I want, and Sears never tried to stop anyone from doing so. This isn't about providing new, better products as technology evolves. It's about control. If the people pushing "trusted computing" get what they want, you'll never be able to run the programs you want again (except maybe in a walled off glass terrarium inside your walled garden) without buying a "license" that they can remotely revoke at any time. And you can count on anything they find remotely threatening or which exists in a space they want to "personally" move in on being banhammered.

If you don't see what's monstrously wrong with that, I'm not sure there's anything meaningful I can say.

meddleRPI: The sky is falling! We use computers to make airplanes fly safer and more fuel efficiently! Clearly the end times are upon us.

Doctorow is an idiot.

If you think that was his point, I would suggest you not go on public record calling others idiots. Also, try looking up - you may get a glance of the point flying overhead at 30000 feet.

downstairs: MoronLessOff: I never understood the benefit of cloud computing. All the commercials that sing it's praises show someone with a laptop accessing their home files. How about just copy the files straight to your laptop. It has memory too!

Well, then the commercial is stupid. Cloud computing means you can access your files on any device, anywhere in the world.

For example, I can take my Android out when I excercise and listen to any/all the songs stored on my home file server... without copying them to the device.

I think that's kinda useful.

Yea, the commercial is stupid. But in your example, you have to have a connection to listen to your music. I'd just rather have them with me on a media player. Also, I've always been concerned about the security of it. If I can access any file on my home computer, I'm sure there are others trying to do the same. Not necessarily with MY computer, but with others that utilize cloud computing. Maybe it's not a legitimate concern, but no thank you.

downstairs: Well, then the commercial is stupid. Cloud computing means you can access your files on any device, anywhere in the world.

No. The internet allows you to access your files on any device, anywhere in the world. Cloud computing is just a rebranding of the term "outsourcing". It's "we'll host and manager the server(s) so you don't have to".

Taking your Android to the gym and copying music to a temp file for immediate consumption (aka streaming) has nothing to do with "the cloud".

Though I do agree that's nifty.

Babwa Wawa:
I'm not sure I agree with you 100%. People who buy subsidized devices are essentially on a lease to own plan, and it really shouldn't be up to them to treat it however they please (just like if I lease a hardtop, I'm not allowed to make it into a convertible). The key is that any customization should be reversible (as most roots are, but not guaranteed). If you want the right to fully customize the device, don't buy a subsidized device.

For fully owned devices, I agree to the extent that the purchaser owns the HW and should have the right to load whatever the purchaser wishes. That should be near universal for devices with monthly plans associated with them, because any issues arising from hacking could be covered by the network service agreement, not the device EULA.

But even for fully owned devices, they should have a network service/license agreement that stands i ...

when I buy an ipad I have the same restrictions as someone with an iphone on contract, but I bought it outright. What now?

Its an entire way of thinking that needs to be stopped, not just a cell phone.