There is a fairly simple way to improve the business climate for high tech and manufacturing companies in California, but Prop 13 prevents a shift away from sales and income taxes to land value taxes.

/Mason Gaffney at UC Riverside is one sane voice on the subject, but he's rapidly approaching his 90th birthday. Though even were he as young as Governor Brown (heh), I doubt that the current beneficiaries of the California mess -- certain business and political interests, plus those who stay up nights worrying about destitute widows living in multi-million dollar mansions -- would listen to him.

1) It's an editorial
2) Fox News reported that more than 2,500 employers, accounting for 109,000 jobs, have left California in the past four years.

I really can't take anyone seriously who reports something Fox News said as a fact. I'd like to be outraged by the article, but really I just ended up laughing.

The reason "conservatives" are told to parrot the idea of a less powerful federal government is to allow even more of the race to the bottom environmental and worker protections that are hurting states that are responsible about the condition of their environment and their poorest citizens.

It's doubly bad for the states like California because the poorest people, the people who are unable to work, the sick, the mentally ill, all leave the states that shirk those responsibilities, texas being one of the worst offenders, and go to places like CA, all while businesses flee for states like TX.

Ideologues claim all kinds of stupid shiat in the name of their politics.

Eh? Whatever. Sounds like someone couldn't handle the competition so they ran away to an easier state. They'll close up shop within 3 years.

Were there any actual ideas on how to fix it in there, I didnt notice any

exvaxman: tl;dr
A friend of my father's owned a large plant in California. Sick of the taxes, rules and being ignored by the politicos, he called up the economic development offices of Arizona and Nevada. The next day a representative was at his office from Nevada with a powerpoint on prospective locations and available funding. Arizona had fedex'd out the same information as well as the Gov's office calling to schedule a call with the governor. He asked California for some of the breaks each state was going to be giving him - no response. So he moved everything to Nevada at the cost of 500 jobs to the California economy. He told us that the day of the announcement the local state rep was in his office on his hands and knees begging for him to change his mind. His reply essentially was "too late".

so bribery? God Bless America

Brostorm: exvaxman: tl;dr
A friend of my father's owned a large plant in California. Sick of the taxes, rules and being ignored by the politicos, he called up the economic development offices of Arizona and Nevada. The next day a representative was at his office from Nevada with a powerpoint on prospective locations and available funding. Arizona had fedex'd out the same information as well as the Gov's office calling to schedule a call with the governor. He asked California for some of the breaks each state was going to be giving him - no response. So he moved everything to Nevada at the cost of 500 jobs to the California economy. He told us that the day of the announcement the local state rep was in his office on his hands and knees begging for him to change his mind. His reply essentially was "too late".

so bribery? God Bless America

Basically, the sad thing is that all of this shuffling jobs to other states does jacksquat to help the national economy overall and GDP. But yet this is the strategy that a lot of folks are taking now a days.

Bullshiat bullshiat bullshiat. Don't listen to these cocksuckers, they use resources provided by tax dollars and when they don't get what they want they leave. Look at Sears in illinois, they would leave if the government wouldn't give them tax breaks, with a net zero gain in employment. These businesses that leave one state for another don't care about anything except their bottom line, which as a business owner i completely understand, however you can't just take take take take and not give back. Oh, and you only pay taxes when you make a profit. If no profit no taxes. Don't believe the lies, they just want to shake governments down and these stupid politicians are too freaking corrupt and blind to see anything else.

Lame editorial is lame.

Yes California can be a pain to do business in. So does every other bloody state. That's why you have accountants and lawyers. But it has many advantages (talent for one thing). But moving a business is fraught with issues in itself and most either taking decades to get back to the level of their old business (such as a semi-recent article in Fark about an Oregon business moving to Montana) or simply don't survive at all.

/smart businesses simply open up new operations in other states to take advantage of local tax laws, talent, etc while maintaining the advantages of having offices in California

soia: Bullshiat bullshiat bullshiat. Don't listen to these cocksuckers, they use resources provided by tax dollars and when they don't get what they want they leave. Look at Sears in illinois, they would leave if the government wouldn't give them tax breaks, with a net zero gain in employment. These businesses that leave one state for another don't care about anything except their bottom line, which as a business owner i completely understand, however you can't just take take take take and not give back. Oh, and you only pay taxes when you make a profit. If no profit no taxes. Don't believe the lies, they just want to shake governments down and these stupid politicians are too freaking corrupt and blind to see anything else.

It really is corporate blackmail. I've been following the news with Sears and the CBOE and it's just disgusting how they're treating their operations in Illinois by using them for a ransom.

DarnoKonrad: Ideologues claim all kinds of stupid shiat in the name of their politics.

Racist, terrorist, random talking point nonsensical insult, booger eater, etc.

California Republicans are bitter, leathery windbags. They haven't held any significant power other than the Governorship since 1970.

"Except for the period from 1995 to 1996, the Assembly has been in Democratic hands since the 1970 election (even while the governor's office has gone back and forth between Republicans and Democrats). The Senate has been in Democratic hands continuously since 1970."

Republicans are rapidly becoming a "third party" in California. 8 years ago, Democrats were 44.4% of the electorate, while Republicans were 35.2% and Decline to State was 15.3%. As of February 10, 2011, Democrats were 44.0%, Republicans were 30.9% and Decline to State was 20.4%. Their policies have marginalized themselves quite effectively. Or maybe it's because they are leaving the state in droves. Good riddance.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ror/ror-pages/ror-odd-year-11/hist-re g -stats.pdf

I live in northern Cali and there are jobs a plenty here and more startups than anywhere else in the country. I think everyone needs to realize here that the OC is basically a giant cesspool of rich and greedy douches.

/hates OC
//loves girls from there though
///mmm daddy issues.

Trans: 'Why can't you be more like Texas??'

F*ck that noise.

I'm not willing to sacrifice the environment and workers rights just so some companies can make some more money.

fark that.

I think if a state has universal state funded healthcare it'll pick up businesses like no tomorrow.
Business in Canada is so much easier thanks to that, plus the workforce ends up being healthier.

GAT_00: It's less that California actually has a bad business climate, since after all it is a gigantic economy all on it's own and there are not a complete dearth of new businesses there, or businesses dying disproportionally in California. It's more that other states are willing to imperil the lives of their citizens with less necessary regulations, or reduce their own treasury with less income, and hope everything will be better with that company there.

Whether the state gets a net profit out of the deal is questionable. But as long as states are willing to offer bribes of 'Come here, you don't have to follow the law,' and as long as companies demand them, this is what you get. And thanks to years of it, companies think they have the right to demand states change their laws just for them now. That needs to stop.

THIS. I'm always amazed to read about what some states will do to attract new businesses to their area. At first glance, they seem to be bending over backwards to accommodate some big company moving in. Generally, closer economic analysis of the costs to infrastructure, resource use, etc. show that the opposite is true: the states are often bending over forwards....

Wahhhhhh! Why won't California let us rape the Earth like they let us do in other states like Texas? Wahhhhhhhhhhh!

Peki: 1) It's an editorial
2) Fox News reported that more than 2,500 employers, accounting for 109,000 jobs, have left California in the past four years.

I really can't take anyone seriously who reports something Fox News said as a fact. I'd like to be outraged by the article, but really I just ended up laughing.

You know, just because Fox repeats statistics does not make them untrue.

I'm moving to the Chicago Imperrium.

godhatesu: I live in northern Cali and there are jobs a plenty here and more startups than anywhere else in the country. I think everyone needs to realize here that the OC is basically a giant cesspool of rich and greedy douches.

/hates OC
//loves girls from there though
///mmm daddy issues.

I second this notion. All of it.
In Laguna Niguel right now, get to fly home tomorrow.

TV's Vinnie: Wahhhhhh! Why won't California let us rape the Earth like they let us do in other states like Texas? Wahhhhhhhhhhh!

I was completely unaware that Federal EPA law was invalid in the other 49 states.

/ Yeah, you're a dumbass
// Can't pollute in the other 49 either
/// Don't let the facts stop your derp flowing

Headso: It's doubly bad for the states like California because the poorest people, the people who are unable to work, the sick, the mentally ill, all leave the states that shirk those responsibilities, texas being one of the worst offenders

Citation needed

California just imports water and energy from other states with laxer restrictions. That way, they can still have more than their fair share of resources and still feel smug about it. It is hypocritcal douchebaginess that we all have come to expect from rich liberals. Al Gore and Ted "Mr Environment unless there is a windmill visible of my sealine" must be proud

Greece is showing California the way. Tomorrow...you.

godhatesu: I live in northern Cali and there are jobs a plenty here and more startups than anywhere else in the country. I think everyone needs to realize here that the OC is basically a giant cesspool of rich and greedy douches.

I live in NorCal, too, and don't think I'm going to leave. I just sold one startup last summer (broke even...glad to be rid of it), and my second is doing fine...good cash flow and growth, and should hit a million in sales within a few more years. And NO DEBT...woot!

Yeah, Cali has lots of regulations, and it's more expensive to do business here than in some states, but bear in mind that Waste Connections didn't move their business to Houston...they moved their corporate headquarters. They still pick up trash here and still pay plenty of taxes. This was just a strategic move driven by their BoD.

[Bye.jpg]

1macgeek: I was completely unaware that Federal EPA law was invalid in the other 49 states.

In Texas, it's practically nonexistent!

Orange County Register ?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Why not just ask World Nutball Daily

jbuist: "other $i are writing checks."

This is the problem, regardless of whether $i is an element of cities, states, or even nations.

I watched with some amusement Scottsdale throw a zillion dollars into their "Motor Mile" district in the 90s stealing dealerships from Phoenix only to see Chandler (Gilbert) in the 00s steal the same dealers into their newer, bester, Motor Mile. Scottsdale now an an empty street for their trouble, right where they dumped tons of taxpayer to improve that district and right where they gave tons of taxpayer money to dealers in tax giveaways.

Tax deals to steal foreign businesses at the expense of local businesses is a race to the bottom.

I work in industry, travel the country and hear the every year. . . from companies that not only aren't based in California, but never were. And every year it's wrong.

Generally there are only a few patterns regarding California:
1) Hire the best to design in California; outsource your manufacturing in a state or country more likely to ballgargle you.
2) Start up your company to design and manufacture in California, move out while whining about the high taxes when you come up with something decent and become a one-trick pony in another state until your widget is obsolete.
3) Start up in another state with the sole purpose of making something cheaper, not better. Because as much as North Carolina brags about being a "high tech" state, and to be fair those guys you're hiring out of Duke are pretty sharp, but they're retarded compared to the guys from Caltech.

California is to high tech what the SEC is to college football -- quite literally. The southeast has Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Auburn, etc. and they're damn proud of it. California has Caltech, Harvey Mudd, Stanford, UC-Berkeley, etc. Many of the best schools in the world are located in California. You want to set up shop in Texas, take something that's already being made and figure out a way to do it cheaper. If you cut enough corners and/or grease enough palms, you might get ahead -- and that's fine. The world needs this as well, but just to put things in perspective, TFA is about making California like Just Another Red State. It's not; there are plenty of those. You want to design the Next Big Thing, you have no choice but to recruit in California. And good luck trying to peel any talent off established firms like Google or Blizzard; not only is it almost a certainty you're based in a shiattier climate; they demand wages and benefits that'll bankrupt your little backwater operation.

Most of this California hate is envy. They want to bring California to its knees because it's liberal AND successful, but the "imminent collapse" is never going to happen (or if it does the rest of the country will go with it) because California's economy is fundamentally different from its haters. It's got the talent and productivity to demand concessions from its businesses. The other states are cocksuckers for jobs because they need them. California is basically a jobs exporter. Want to move? Fine. You can't win there because there are plenty to replace you, and the concentration of talent that can be found in California can't be found anywhere else in the world. It's getting to the point where California is one of the ONLY reasons left that America is a first-world country. Stop shiatting on it.

FWIW, California will always have a high unemployment rate and high poverty because of its climate and location. If you're gonna be poor, at least you can't freeze to death in your tent or SUV in California. But ever wonder how the media always focuses on the unemployed, hippies, panhandlers and immigrants in California, then somehow report elsewhere that California by itself is one of the biggest economies in the world? It's because they're too retarded to put two and two together. It's not like Google is hiring hippies off the street.

1macgeek: TV's Vinnie: Wahhhhhh! Why won't California let us rape the Earth like they let us do in other states like Texas? Wahhhhhhhhhhh!

I was completely unaware that Federal EPA law was invalid in the other 49 states.

/ Yeah, you're a dumbass
// Can't pollute in the other 49 either
/// Don't let the facts stop your derp flowing

States have their own environmental agencies.

/Even Texas