Officers can be fired?
I thought they were just reassigned to unpleasant places.

way south: Officers can be fired?
I thought they were just reassigned to unpleasant places.

there are a few golden rules.

1: don't be stupid in public
2: Don't fark with guns, funds, or classifieds

Elvis_Bogart: way south: Officers can be fired?
I thought they were just reassigned to unpleasant places.


A reassignment is in essence a "firing" from a position of prestige. The submarine service does not screw around.

So many puns. Must resist. Dirty puns. Navy puns. Dirty Navy puns.

"Cmdr. Joseph Nosse, who was serving as commanding officer for the USS Kentucky, was fired on Oct. 19 for "inadequate leadership" stemming from a number of incidents"

I'm surprised he wasn't fired after that incident with lighthouse

eat fresh

So submarines actually travel with only periscope up in straits that are trafficked not using radar or anything? Ooooook then.....

OBBN: I don't know much about subs, but wouldn't the periscope be the last resort when it comes to navigation in modern subs? I would think sonar and such would be used to navigate and someone would always be tracking what is around regardless of what the person at the periscope was seeing.

Normally they would rely on passive sonar to ensure their area is clear before coming to periscope depth. Once shallow though I don't know how reliable passive sonar is due to surface noise...and if the primary eyes would be the periscope at that point. Why the captain would order a turn to avoid traffic and not be glued to the scope is beyond me.

/used to be a submariner
//but they kept back aft playing with the radiation
///I glow in the dark

//but they kept ME back aft playing with the radiation

Been up all night waiting for santa....happy holidays.

rekraFlatoT: afficked not using radar or anything? Ooooook then.....

Ballistic missile subs are the assholes of the sea.

Oops.

There's a reason why boats have strict procedures while transiting near shipping lanes (surfaced or submerged). If there's going to be a peacetime loss of a boat then a collision with a surface ship will most likely be it.

Someone got lazy.

Our rules were 6k yards and the CO knows about the contact. 4k yards the CO is told again and the OOD had better be doing something about it NOW. At 2K yards the CO is already on the bridge or conn and has taken over from the OOD.

Stuff happens though and there will be times where the OOD simply can't maneuver out of the way as much as he'd like to. When that was the case he told the CO as soon as he knew that the problem was arising even if it was outside the set standard distances.

Running a boomer at PD in restricted waters like the strait is just asking for trouble and the CO should've been on the conn at all times until they got to more open waters. At most it's only a couple of hours.

Phil Moskowitz: rekraFlatoT: afficked not using radar or anything? Ooooook then.....

Ballistic missile subs are the assholes of the sea.

We rarely used our mast mounted RADAR because the signature broadcast to everyone who we were, we had a standard commercial RADAR like you might find on a larger pleasure boat or fishing trawler that we would set up and tear down for surface use only. We rarely used the submarine beacon for the same reason. We did use our regular running lights (port, starboard, mast headlight and stern light) right up until 15-30 minutes before we submerged. Boomers don't like to advertise who or where they are... ever.

Radioactive Ass: Oops.

There's a reason why boats have strict procedures while transiting near shipping lanes (surfaced or submerged). If there's going to be a peacetime loss of a boat then a collision with a surface ship will most likely be it.

Someone got lazy.

Our rules were 6k yards and the CO knows about the contact. 4k yards the CO is told again and the OOD had better be doing something about it NOW. At 2K yards the CO is already on the bridge or conn and has taken over from the OOD.

Stuff happens though and there will be times where the OOD simply can't maneuver out of the way as much as he'd like to. When that was the case he told the CO as soon as he knew that the problem was arising even if it was outside the set standard distances.

Running a boomer at PD in restricted waters like the strait is just asking for trouble and the CO should've been on the conn at all times until they got to more open waters. At most it's only a couple of hours.

Bullshiat. How does anyone learn anything from the CO having the conn during every taxing evolution? Where do you get new COs from, for example? And those reporting ranges are obscene. Relieved at 2kyds?

Kyoowashugi: Bullshiat. How does anyone learn anything from the CO having the conn during every taxing evolution? Where do you get new COs from, for example? And those reporting ranges are obscene. Relieved at 2kyds?

2k yards can mean a closing speed of up to 32-40 kts or less than 2 minutes to react. You are in a ship with 1/3rd of it's rudder in the air, a screw that's only 3/4ths submerged at times and cavitating like a sum-biatch and a CG-CB of only a few feet so you bob around like a waterlogged cork. I've sat at the helm in relatively calm waters and watched the gyro swing 10 degrees in 5 seconds from minor wave action while a full rudder got you maybe 10 degrees in 20 seconds. Surfaced boomers have very few maneuvering options available to them.

powhound: OBBN: I don't know much about subs, but wouldn't the periscope be the last resort when it comes to navigation in modern subs? I would think sonar and such would be used to navigate and someone would always be tracking what is around regardless of what the person at the periscope was seeing.

Normally they would rely on passive sonar to ensure their area is clear before coming to periscope depth. Once shallow though I don't know how reliable passive sonar is due to surface noise...and if the primary eyes would be the periscope at that point. Why the captain would order a turn to avoid traffic and not be glued to the scope is beyond me.

/used to be a submariner
//but they kept back aft playing with the radiation
///I glow in the dark

you're harder, stronger, more brittle, less ductile, less tough?
Or did you eat the neutron cookie?

Oh. And new CO's go through prospective commanding officer school. That's after tenure as XO, navigator, engineer and weapons officer and a division officer of at least 4 different divisions. Nothing lower than a senior Lcdr will get a billet there. Many never make it to command a boat.

Don't blame me for the way the Navy has the career path to CO set up. I think that they focus too much on the engineering end and not enough on the seamanship myself.

I smell NOFORN in this thread.

/or maybe it's those neutron cookies baking

Radioactive Ass: We rarely used our mast mounted RADAR because the signature broadcast to everyone who we were, we had a standard commercial RADAR like you might find on a larger pleasure boat or fishing trawler that we would set up and tear down for surface use only.

MFers sure as shiat don't show up on recreational radar, even when fully unsubmerged.

Case in point:

This is looking North (Canada in the background) on the aforementioned Strait of Juan De Fuca. It looks nice that day, but there is a huge fog bank to the West, from which this fine sub emerged. I was cheating somewhat when crossing the shipping lanes (at not quit a 90 degree angle) because radar was completely empty except for one other sailboat.

This sub comes out of the fog on a collision course. I about fouled my foulies. When I crossed his path, he was about 500 yards away and closest approach was about 150 yards. I don't even like being that close to whales, much less submarines.

Really Stretching for a Headline: Yes

Speaking from experience, submarines have a very low radar signature and are difficult to spot even if on the surface. If a collision had happened it would have been the sub CO's fault. We plan for entering restricted waters and every move is thought out ahead of time. There is a reason the CO was taken off the boat. If he can't be trusted to safely navigate then he definately can't be trusted with the 24 ballistic missles in his custody.

OBBN: I would think sonar and such would be used to navigate

Sonar is useless on the surface. A surface watch is usually posted with topside lookouts, the OOD topside, and in control (at least when I was in) an officer qualified as a "Contact Coordinator". The CC's job is to use all detection methods available (including radar, sonar, visual from the topside watches and the periscope) to track, plot and recommend course changes to avoid incidents with other surface ships. The must act as if it is always the "give way" vessel because it is so damn hard to see.

The CO did a lousy job of training his troops.

But I still call bullshiat on the article because I have never seen a merchant ship maneuver to avoid anything. They turn on the autopilot, crank it up to ahead full and go belowdecks.

// YAFS. yet another former submariner. O-ganger....

brerrabbit: Also former submariner.
Control room weenie FTW.

** high fives **

powhound: /used to be a submariner
//but they kept back aft playing with the radiation
///I glow in the dark

All nukes to the back of the bus!

** high fives**
// former E-div officer

The USS Lincoln v Canada radio conversation still wins the cake.


/I see red October and down periscope are covered
//one ping only

powhound: OBBN: I don't know much about subs, but wouldn't the periscope be the last resort when it comes to navigation in modern subs? I would think sonar and such would be used to navigate and someone would always be tracking what is around regardless of what the person at the periscope was seeing.

Normally they would rely on passive sonar to ensure their area is clear before coming to periscope depth. Once shallow though I don't know how reliable passive sonar is due to surface noise...and if the primary eyes would be the periscope at that point. Why the captain would order a turn to avoid traffic and not be glued to the scope is beyond me.

/used to be a submariner
//but they kept back aft playing with the radiation
///I glow in the dark

A cousin of mine died of prostate cancer when he was 47 and was a nuke guy.

Merry Christmas!!

Fat Gandhi: I smell NOFORN in this thread.

/or maybe it's those neutron cookies baking

I definitely think you're right: people need to know when to STFU. When it comes to submarines, just lose the pissing match about knowing more about them.

/Engineer at EB
//knows how to keep his damn mouth shut

neither he nor the officer of the deck looked through the periscope to check if the course was clear.

Holy shiatballs! Neither of those two Bubbleheads bothered to look???

Geez.... always, always, ALWAYS check your bridge wing (or in this case, periscope), before turning on to a new course.

/I guess nukies aren't always that smart after all.

//Actually, I learned that fact in Nuke school many years ago.

Milos Hattrick: [cache3.asset-cache.net image 471x594]

Not a bubble head - unless you count when he sank the PT?

/Was looking for a 'Juat de Fuca' comment here - now leaving disappointed.

"His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking."

I saw a submarine on the Strait of Juan de Fuca about a year ago just outside Port Townsend. I know it was a sub, earlier in the day they had closed the bridge on the Hood canal, and my brother told me it was a sub, because he had seen others just like it.

Anyway, the submarine looked just like two identical tugboats about a 1,000 feet apart with another tug about halfway in between running parallel to their course.

brerrabbit: Go make some water. I want a hollywood after watch.

Sorry, I never ran M-div....But I did finish with A-gang, so I'll go make some oxygen for you to breathe after watch...

brerrabbit: seancakes: Fat Gandhi: I smell NOFORN in this thread.

/or maybe it's those neutron cookies baking

I definitely think you're right: people need to know when to STFU. When it comes to submarines, just lose the pissing match about knowing more about them.

/Engineer at EB
//knows how to keep his damn mouth shut

Unless things have changed a lot, collision avoidance practices while transitting are not even NOFORN. Your neglecting the amount of civilians that get to see this on a regular basis during family cruises/tiger cruises/PR cruises.

I'm more referring to steering and diving capabilities some numbnuts posted. Incorrectly, thankfully, but still.