I don't mean to ask a silly question but how is someone who is not a US citizen, and not in the US at the time the alleged offence took place, bound by US law?

gaslight: I don't mean to ask a silly question but how is someone who is not a US citizen, and not in the US at the time the alleged offence took place, bound by US law?

You don't have to be a citizen to be charged with espionage. I'm not saying he should, but it is certainly not dependent on your citizenship. Foreign nationals have been arrested and charged plenty of times - people from other countries here, our citizens in other countries.

Not sure what the law says, but he sure gives up the moral high ground if he was encouraging Manning to break security.

gaslight

He allegedly conspired with a U.S. national to commit a crime within the United States. That should be enough for jurisdiction. See Manuel Noriega, for example.

I don't know if European countries will extradite to the US on espionage charges.

Nabb1

I think the question was about extraterritorial jurisdiction. If you are in the United States you are bound by its laws. If you are not in the United States the general rule is you are not bound by its laws. There are many exceptions to that generality.

Wrong_Intentions: gaslight: I don't mean to ask a silly question but how is someone who is not a US citizen, and not in the US at the time the alleged offence took place, bound by US law?

I'm pretty sure you just gave aide and comfort to the enemy by asking.

He did. Tracking in progress.....going through the door in 2

"1...2...3...4...5"

/the kind of combo an idiot would have on his luggage

LadyHawke: "1...2...3...4...5"

/the kind of combo an idiot would have on his luggage

That's my luggage combination!

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange could face spy charges in the U.S. after a court revealed his apparent 'role' in the theft of secret military documents, it emerged today.

like it or not, agree with it or not, Wikileaks and Assange haven't broken any laws. did they push the limits? maybe. Did they piss off the rich and powerful? oh most certainly. But they haven't broken any laws.

that said...one simply does not anger the US government and walk away clean. a LOT of people in faceless government agencies didn't want to see their dirty laundry aired out in public. Bradly Manning will pay the price for breaking the law, and Assange *will* end up in a jail cell. The US might even just snatch the guy off the street and/or make up evidence if they have too...but they'll get him one way or another.

See, Assange made them look bad. And in politics, perception is often reality. And the perception is that a computer geek laughed at the most powerful nation in the world....and got away with it. Which means that NO MATTER WHAT, Assange has to be crushed. He also has to be seen to be crushed, or the point wouldn't get made.

If I were Assange, i'd keep a low profile.

Weaver95

It is likely that Assanage violated 18 U.S.C. § 793, which in short form prohibits (1) gathering secret military information, (2) knowing or having reason to believe that disclosure of such information could harm the United States or aid a foreign country. Conspiring with somebody or soliciting somebody to commit a crime is a crime in itself.

I think a jury would convict. The prosecution only has to show that one of the "leaks" fell within the scope of the act.

ZAZ: I think a jury would convict. The prosecution only has to show that one of the "leaks" fell within the scope of the act.

sure, you could try to hammer wikileaks into that law. you'd be wrong to even consider it, but it could be done.

I think that - in the end - it won't matter what the law actually says. the US is going to find some sort of pretext, seize Assange, and then throw him into a deep dark hole and torture the f*ck outta him. That's just how this country rolls, at least we do now anyway. the point is to punish, not to follow the law. if/when the law gets in the way well then, we just distort it or ignore it until we get our way.

Uh-huh.

Guess the bogus rape charges wouldn't stick, so we're on to bogus Plan B.

gilgigamesh: Uh-huh.

Guess the bogus rape charges wouldn't stick, so we're on to bogus Plan B.

I wonder if the US will do what Israel did when they were in their nazi hunting phase - kidnap Assange, ship him here to the US and then give him a sham trial before imposing sentence...?

ZAZ: Weaver95

It is likely that Assanage violated 18 U.S.C. § 793, which in short form prohibits (1) gathering secret military information, (2) knowing or having reason to believe that disclosure of such information could harm the United States or aid a foreign country. Conspiring with somebody or soliciting somebody to commit a crime is a crime in itself.

I think a jury would convict. The prosecution only has to show that one of the "leaks" fell within the scope of the act.

Conspiracy is the only one that has a chance of flying and even that is up to debate. As a non citizen and not in the US nor actively gathering the material himself, the US code you referenced will not apply due to precedent in international law.

Punishing those that bring wrongs to light? Classy as usual, US. Keep farking that chicken, it'll bite you eventually.

brerrabbit: Conspiracy is the only one that has a chance of flying and even that is up to debate. As a non citizen and not in the US nor actively gathering the material himself, the US code you referenced will not apply due to precedent in international law.

Again - the actual intent and content of the law doesn't matter. what matters is the pretext. it's not like we're going to give Assange a fair trial anyway. he'll get a military tribunal and secret trial before a secret court. no press coverage, bare minimum legal representation and then he goes into a military prison. What little press coverage we get (and it WILL be very minimal, of that you can be sure) is going to be heavily slanted to support the government's actions. Assange will be denied access to the press, won't be permitted the use of a computer and won't be allowed to write letters without them being censored/edited.

we all know how this goes. we've seen it before.

If the US government gets a hard-on for you, then you will be farked, and farked hard.

GAT_00: Marcus Aurelius: If the US government gets a hard-on for you, then you will be farked, and farked hard.

They're not doing a very good job of it, considering he didn't break any laws and has gotten out of everything so far.

Oh i'm sure they'll eventually find SOMETHING to charge Assange with. we've got tons of laws. Even just standing on a street corner i'm sure you're breaking at least 3 laws.

The US government's harsh treatment of Manning is to make an example out of him. The kid embarrassed the US and we can't have that can we? They'd do anything to get their hands on Assange and probably are.
The Obama administration has been going after whistle blowers like crazy. This is putting a huge damper on people coming forward with info about wrong doings in government and industry. Which is the result they were looking for.

ZAZ: Weaver95

It is likely that Assanage violated 18 U.S.C. § 793, which in short form prohibits (1) gathering secret military information, (2) knowing or having reason to believe that disclosure of such information could harm the United States or aid a foreign country. Conspiring with somebody or soliciting somebody to commit a crime is a crime in itself.

I think a jury would convict. The prosecution only has to show that one of the "leaks" fell within the scope of the act.

I'm not a lawyer, and certainly not an expert in international law... but I gotta believe breaking such a law would allow us to cross borders and arrest/try him.

If a UK citizen mugs a UK citizen in London, of course the US can't prosecute him.

But when it comes to state secrets, I gotta believe any country has the right to go after someone in another country.

I'd think that's the CRUX of international law.

You know, for being such a computer "mastermind" he sure farks up with them a lot.

OH NO RAINBOW TABLES!!!!1111

Wait, you could just google for windows xp rainbow tables and have it in a second

Wiki entry for Rainbow Table (new window)

cirby: Except for a few that fall under various treaties. Like espionage. And computer intrusion/fraud.

none of which Assange broke. those crimes were commited by someone else, and that person is standing trial for his crimes.

There's also a large amount of law which controls things like cross-border crime. If you do something in one country which results in a crime in another country, it's not that hard to get you extradited for that crime.

harder than you think, esp when you haven't broken any laws in the first place.

If Assange did offer direct advice on how to commit a crime, he's probably screwed.

depends on the nature of the conversation. If I told you what files to steal, how to encrypt them and where to send them, then I'd be guilty of conspiracy (at the very least). but if I told you that hey, there's this thing called 'bittorrent' and its used for file trading and can be used in a manner that is virtually untraceable....well then i'm not responsible for what you do with that knowledge.

squirrelflavoredyogurt: St_Francis_P: Not sure what the law says, but he sure gives up the moral high ground if he was encouraging Manning to break security.

In Illinois we have a law that prohibits you from video recording anyone without their consent. Are the people filming police beating up a suspect giving up the high moral ground?

Wow. That's not even vaguely comparable. Manning goes to jail for years, Assange gets what he wants and walks off into the sunset whistling. Sound fair to you?