Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(CNN)   Gov. Nikki Haley (R-SC) outraged at Department of Justice's attempt to infringe on her 10th Amendment right to infringe on her constituent's 15th Amendment rights   (cnn.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass  
•       •       •

6349 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Dec 2011 at 8:53 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



255 Comments     (+0 »)
 


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2011-12-24 11:29:18 AM  

ginandbacon: Tickle Mittens: I'd be ok with the DOJ bringing federal civil rights charges against all the people involved in these various polltax schemes. If it's good enough for the Rodney King police officers, it's good enough for the GOP. No pleas, just federal jail time, in 23 1/2 hour protective custody for their protection as notable figures. For 10 years or so, a crack.

DOJ has actually been doing a pretty good job on this after eight years of doing nothing during the previous administration. They are going after states for gerrymandering, the voter ID [suppression] laws, and the non-compliance issues at DHS offices that do not offer to register clients.


Too bad the DOJ isn't on the same page as SCOTUS:

Link (new window)

"Because Indiana's cards are free, the inconvenience of going to the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, gathering required documents, and posing for a photograph does not qualify as a substantial burden on most voters' right to vote, or represent a significant increase over the usual burdens of voting. The severity of the somewhat heavier burden that may be placed on a limited number of persons-e.g., elderly persons born out-of-state, who may have difficulty obtaining a birth certificate-is mitigated by the fact that eligible voters without photo identification may cast provisional ballots that will be counted if they execute the required affidavit at the circuit court clerk's office. Even assuming that the burden may not be justified as to a few voters, that conclusion is by no means sufficient to establish petitioners' right to the relief they seek."

Basically free ID + ability to cast provisional ballot = free and clear. If states are so dead set on passing a voter ID bill, why don't they just model it off the one that survived a f*cking SCOTUS challenge and won 6-3 with JOHN PAUL STEVENS (hardly a right winger) writing the majority opinion.
 
2011-12-24 11:34:34 AM  

TheMadChaosopher: is your argument that there is no voter fraud?

you must not be from Illinois.

the answer here is to waive the fee to receive a State I.D., and yes of course you should have to show it to vote.


Are you suffering from ADHD? My argument was in plain English and was explicitly that Republicans can present no evidence of the kind of voter fraud that their proposed legislation is supposed to remedy. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

I notice you are apparently in no hurry to correct this damning fault to the intellectual credibility of your partisan position.
 
2011-12-24 11:42:15 AM  
Racism masquerading as "states' rights?" There is absolutely no precedent in U.S. History for that.
 
2011-12-24 11:43:45 AM  
One state down, 13 more to go? 14 states are pulling this crap, all with the same group lobbying for it behind the scenes.
 
2011-12-24 11:47:20 AM  
http://www.campusprogress.org/articles/only_25_south_carolinians_gett i ng_free_rides_to_dmv_for_voter_ids/ (new window)

Only 25 South Carolina residents have scheduled a free ride to obtain a photo ID on Wednesday as part of an effort by the state to show that its new Voter ID law isn't discriminatory.

Gov. Nikki Haley promised anyone without proper ID that the state would offer them a free ride to get one after she signed the law, which threatens to disenfranchise about 178,000 residents, in May.

About 675 people called the DMV about the offer and the law, according to the Associated Press. Of those, 48 requested rides and only 25 have scheduled rides.

Haley said she is "pleased" with the 25 requests, according to The State: "We got 25 appointments so that's 25 people we're helping. I'm pleased with that."

Unfortunately, that's only a troubling .014 percent of the 178,000 South Carolina residents lacking proper ID-and an even smaller portion of the state's total eligible voters.

"We fielded over 600 calls of people who needed help," Haley told the AP when asked if the "real problem remains." "Our job is to help people, and I thought we thoroughly did that."

The state's DMV Executive Director Kevin Shwedo told the AP that most callers to the Voter ID hotline wanted information and not rides, adding that some traveled to the DMV on their own. The U.S. Justice Department is reviewing South Carolina's law and has asked the state Attorney General for more information before proceeding.
 
2011-12-24 11:47:39 AM  
Just one constituent?
 
2011-12-24 11:49:38 AM  

natazha: tomWright: /"shocking" how state pols seem to forget they are bound by the Bill of Rights too

Only the first ten amendments are "The Bill of Rights"


Yes, and when the B.O.R. was passed they were only a restriction on the federal government to protect the states from encroachment on their authority. When many states ratified the original Constitution they made a future Bill Of Rights, protecting their authority, a condition of ratification.

After the Civil War, the 14th Amendment was passed to enforce those restrictions on the states as well, so they could not encroach on the rights of the people living in them, like the newly freed slaves. It did not, and has not worked out so well, it took over 50 years just to get voters rights and non-segregated schools, and those are still a work in progress in some areas. Now we are just getting rid of some of the religious based laws, and some vestiges of the old Black Codes like gun control laws.
 
2011-12-24 11:53:38 AM  

UNHbeta19: Have never, still don't, and never will see the problem with this. Also don't see how it's racist, evil, etc...


Voter ID laws are a classic case of a solution looking for a problem. Voter fraud simply isn't a big deal and most of the incidents that do pop up are usually something like voter caging (which the Republicans love, btw). There's simply no need for these laws unless the goal is to suppress voter turnout.
 
2011-12-24 11:58:53 AM  

Soup4Bonnie: It doesn't surprise me that some people are defending the disenfranchising of 5 million Americans.

It's sad, but not surprising.


if you can't be bothered to take the state of south carolina up on their offer to transport you free of charge down to he DMV and pay for the cost of your ID, then you disenfranchised yourself - no one else did.
 
2011-12-24 11:59:39 AM  
Poor people aren't exactly known to have a great voter turnout, so this really isn't going to make much difference. Voter fraud is a non-issue in the greater picture.

I love how some people here think any majority of poor people, black or white, even know or care what they're voting for. Just like those hilarious street interviews...you can read them far, far right propaganda talking points, attribute them to Obama, ask if they agree with them, and they'll say it's the the best idea ever.
 
2011-12-24 12:02:43 PM  

topcon: Poor people aren't exactly known to have a great voter turnout, so this really isn't going to make much difference. Voter fraud is a non-issue in the greater picture.


That's not the point. If you choose not to exercise your rights, that's your business. But if the government is infringing on your rights, that's a problem. Even the "free ride" thing represents an additional imposition on your time that shouldn't be required.
 
2011-12-24 12:04:12 PM  

topcon: I love how some people here think any majority of poor people, black or white, even know or care what they're voting for.


FIFY
 
2011-12-24 12:08:28 PM  

Fart_Machine: topcon: I love how some people here think any majority of poor people, black or white, even know or care what they're voting for.

FIFY


Well, okay, touche.
 
2011-12-24 12:10:31 PM  
 
2011-12-24 12:12:05 PM  
Incoming CSB:

When I moved to South Carolina the Department of Motor Vehicles refused to issue me a license despite already having one from Florida. The hospital I was born at in New York put down the wrong last name on my birth certificate so my father had to get my name legally changed which was done when I was a few months old. I have been issued two Social Security cards, one with the old name and one with the new. Even though I have my birth certificate, official court papers stating the name change, and a drivers license from Florida with my correct last name, the DMV said that because my birth certificate was different, I couldn't get an ID (even though people who get their name changed through marriage have no issue whatsoever) HOWEVER they were more than willing to issue me a drivers license with the old name as i had a Social Security card that matched it. It took about two years of legal action to finally get my drivers license, even though neither SC' school system nor the National Guard had any issues whatsoever accepting my credentials.

So really, go f*ck yourself and your required ID, Haley.
 
2011-12-24 12:23:35 PM  
I'm an open-minded guy. If Republicans could show any evidence that voter fraud is a significant problem, I'd sympathize. But they haven't, so I don't.
 
2011-12-24 12:27:21 PM  

SerpentWithin: All anyone needs to know about Nikki Haley (new window)


Wow....WTF I don't even....WOW!
 
2011-12-24 12:32:52 PM  
There has been a good bit of back-and-forth about whether or not this law amounts to a voter suppression effort (I happen to think it does)- but I have still yet to see anyone show a single incidence of actual voter fraud in SC (or any of the other states pushing such measures) that would have been prevented by this law.

Anyone? Bueller?
 
2011-12-24 12:34:28 PM  
So can we or can we not unreasonably search slaves? Stupid headline tease with no payoff.
 
2011-12-24 12:41:17 PM  
If I could make an unselfish wish, it would be that everyone who is so obsessed with the 10th Amendment would suddenly develop an uncontrollable crotch itch that would only vanish when they come to their senses and stop thinking about it.
 
2011-12-24 12:41:49 PM  

Thorndyke Barnhard: TheMadChaosopher: is your argument that there is no voter fraud?

you must not be from Illinois.

the answer here is to waive the fee to receive a State I.D., and yes of course you should have to show it to vote.

Are you suffering from ADHD? My argument was in plain English and was explicitly that Republicans can present no evidence of the kind of voter fraud that their proposed legislation is supposed to remedy. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

I notice you are apparently in no hurry to correct this damning fault to the intellectual credibility of your partisan position.


my partisan position is that i want fair elections with no voter fraud?

i'm partisan against voter fraud, yes.

when you show up to vote you should have to prove that you are who you say you are, and a State issue photo i.d. is the easiest way to do so.
 
2011-12-24 12:51:56 PM  

The RIchest Man in Babylon: There has been a good bit of back-and-forth about whether or not this law amounts to a voter suppression effort (I happen to think it does)- but I have still yet to see anyone show a single incidence of actual voter fraud in SC (or any of the other states pushing such measures) that would have been prevented by this law.

Anyone? Bueller?


I've already asked that about a half-dozen times in this thread - no answer.
 
2011-12-24 12:53:19 PM  

ginandbacon: What a shame it is that some people are so very comfortable with disfranchising nearly 5 million Americans simply because they are likely to vote for the other side.


Ding ding ding!!!
 
2011-12-24 12:53:26 PM  
I have been wondering all morning where the white privelege went. Looks like its all in this thread.
 
2011-12-24 12:53:57 PM  

TheMadChaosopher: my partisan position is that i want fair elections with no voter fraud?

i'm partisan against voter fraud, yes.

when you show up to vote you should have to prove that you are who you say you are, and a State issue photo i.d. is the easiest way to do so.


Wow, you won't even pretend to adress the issue with an iota of honesty and integrity, will you?

Again: What fraud does this new legislation remedy that the existing legislation couldn't?

Super easy question... but you can't answer it.
 
2011-12-24 12:55:09 PM  

TheMadChaosopher: Thorndyke Barnhard: TheMadChaosopher: is your argument that there is no voter fraud?

you must not be from Illinois.

the answer here is to waive the fee to receive a State I.D., and yes of course you should have to show it to vote.

Are you suffering from ADHD? My argument was in plain English and was explicitly that Republicans can present no evidence of the kind of voter fraud that their proposed legislation is supposed to remedy. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

I notice you are apparently in no hurry to correct this damning fault to the intellectual credibility of your partisan position.

my partisan position is that i want fair elections with no voter fraud?

i'm partisan against voter fraud, yes.

when you show up to vote you should have to prove that you are who you say you are, and a State issue photo i.d. is the easiest way to do so.


As a conservative, I am opposed to adding government bureaucracy and red tape when it isn't needed. If anyone could produce any examples of actual voter fraud that could have been prevented by this, maybe - but there don't seem to be any. We have enough government in our lives as it is.
 
2011-12-24 12:58:13 PM  

UNHbeta19: Have never, still don't, and never will see the problem with this. Also don't see how it's racist, evil, etc...


I don't have a problem with making IDs mandatory to vote, but then the IDs should be free. If you're not going to make the IDs free to anyone who fills out the application for it, then there shouldn't be mandatory IDs for voting. Because you're making people essentially pay to vote, which is a poll tax, which is unconstitutional. There's an amendment about that and everything.

Also, if you can't see how this can't be used to suppress minority votes, you're living in a cave. Wake up and smell the burning coffee, dude.
 
2011-12-24 01:03:05 PM  

redmid17: ginandbacon: Tickle Mittens: I'd be ok with the DOJ bringing federal civil rights charges against all the people involved in these various polltax schemes. If it's good enough for the Rodney King police officers, it's good enough for the GOP. No pleas, just federal jail time, in 23 1/2 hour protective custody for their protection as notable figures. For 10 years or so, a crack.

DOJ has actually been doing a pretty good job on this after eight years of doing nothing during the previous administration. They are going after states for gerrymandering, the voter ID [suppression] laws, and the non-compliance issues at DHS offices that do not offer to register clients.

Too bad the DOJ isn't on the same page as SCOTUS:

Link (new window)

"Because Indiana's cards are free, the inconvenience of going to the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, gathering required documents, and posing for a photograph does not qualify as a substantial burden on most voters' right to vote, or represent a significant increase over the usual burdens of voting. The severity of the somewhat heavier burden that may be placed on a limited number of persons-e.g., elderly persons born out-of-state, who may have difficulty obtaining a birth certificate-is mitigated by the fact that eligible voters without photo identification may cast provisional ballots that will be counted if they execute the required affidavit at the circuit court clerk's office. Even assuming that the burden may not be justified as to a few voters, that conclusion is by no means sufficient to establish petitioners' right to the relief they seek."

Basically free ID + ability to cast provisional ballot = free and clear. If states are so dead set on passing a voter ID bill, why don't they just model it off the one that survived a f*cking SCOTUS challenge and won 6-3 with JOHN PAUL STEVENS (hardly a right winger) writing the majority opinion.


Because that would be common sense, and there's a dearth of that in this country today.
 
2011-12-24 01:03:47 PM  
Why is it that any good liberal will automatically assume a black person is too poor to afford a free ID, but that is somehow not racist?
 
2011-12-24 01:04:02 PM  
Is this the thread where trolls try to pretend that this blatant attempt by the GOP to suppress voter turn out among the poor, minorities and students is really about controlling (largely non-existent) electoral fraud?

*reads thread*

Yup, it's that thread again.
 
2011-12-24 01:06:30 PM  

Daraymann: Why is it that any good liberal will automatically assume a black person is too poor to afford a free ID, but that is somehow not racist?


You've sure put a lot of thinking into this, haven't you? You deserve some good theme music while you're thinking*.

*surprisingly not a rickroll
 
2011-12-24 01:17:05 PM  
Taxation without representation.

Musket balls. Faces. Again.
 
2011-12-24 01:17:16 PM  

TheMadChaosopher: my partisan position is that i want fair elections with no voter fraud?


No, your partisan position seems to be that you're more concerned about the harm of votes allowed to be wrongly cast than the harm of votes prevented from being rightfully cast.
 
2011-12-24 01:19:00 PM  

TheMadChaosopher: Thorndyke Barnhard: TheMadChaosopher: is your argument that there is no voter fraud?

you must not be from Illinois.

the answer here is to waive the fee to receive a State I.D., and yes of course you should have to show it to vote.

Are you suffering from ADHD? My argument was in plain English and was explicitly that Republicans can present no evidence of the kind of voter fraud that their proposed legislation is supposed to remedy. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

I notice you are apparently in no hurry to correct this damning fault to the intellectual credibility of your partisan position.

my partisan position is that i want fair elections with no voter fraud?

i'm partisan against voter fraud, yes.

when you show up to vote you should have to prove that you are who you say you are, and a State issue photo i.d. is the easiest way to do so.


Voter fraud is pretty much non-existent. Your proposed remedy is ten thousand times worse than the "problem" it's supposed to solve.
 
2011-12-24 01:21:14 PM  

whidbey: Daraymann: Why is it that any good liberal will automatically assume a black person is too poor to afford a free ID, but that is somehow not racist?

You've sure put a lot of thinking into this, haven't you? You deserve some good theme music while you're thinking*.

*surprisingly not a rickroll


Didn't answer the question. No surprise there.

\Hey everyone, video game music, derrrrrrr
 
2011-12-24 01:22:30 PM  
Here in my state of Washington, we have a vote-by-mail system. I am not required to show ID when I register to vote; my signature is recorded on the voter registration form. My ballot is mailed to my home, and when I mark it I sign a sealed envelope and send it back. They compare the signature on the ballot with the one on my voter registration form.

Somehow our elections have not been swamped with massive waves of falsely-voting darkies. Hmm.
 
2011-12-24 01:23:46 PM  

Daraymann: Didn't answer the question.


Yeah, I usually formulate clear concise arguments to idiotic strawman arguments accusing "good liberals" of stuff. Don't know what happened there. Must have been a synapse misfiring.
 
2011-12-24 01:28:37 PM  
Welcome to America, where they can force you to buy healthcare but not an ID to vote.
 
2011-12-24 01:33:15 PM  

adamgreeney: Can you cite any significant voter fraud in the last, lets see, 50 years? And elections that were effected? Anything?


You can't prove something that you're legally barred from proving. When you can't ask for identification at a polling place you can't prove someone isn't who they say they are.

It'd be like arguing that there are no planets outside of our solar system so there's no need to build telescopes that can detect them.
 
2011-12-24 01:33:40 PM  

Daraymann: Why is it that any good liberal will automatically assume a black person is too poor to afford a free ID, but that is somehow not racist?


While I do believe mandatory ID laws can and do have the appearance of suppressing minority votes, minorities would not be the only people affected by it, and several people have already stated that. Try and pay attention. We're not just talking about black people, we're talking about the poor, the elderly, the young.....people that comprise far more demographics than just African-American.

You're the one who assumed we were talking about just black people, and you're the one who assumed that we were saying all black people are too poor to buy an ID card.
 
2011-12-24 01:37:09 PM  

Mrbogey: Welcome to America, where they can force you to buy healthcare but not an ID to vote.


Nobody's being forced to buy health care any more than they're being "forced" to take out a mortgage or have kids.
 
2011-12-24 01:40:59 PM  

Coco LaFemme: While I do believe mandatory ID laws can and do have the appearance of suppressing minority votes, minorities would not be the only people affected by it, and several people have already stated that. Try and pay attention. We're not just talking about black people, we're talking about the poor, the elderly, the young.....people that comprise far more demographics than just African-American.

You're the one who assumed we were talking about just black people, and you're the one who assumed that we were saying all black people are too poor to buy an ID card


Well then....

The Fifteenth Amendment:
Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

So I guess the whole "illegal under the 15th Amendment" is just balderdash then.
 
2011-12-24 01:41:17 PM  

Coco LaFemme: Daraymann: Why is it that any good liberal will automatically assume a black person is too poor to afford a free ID, but that is somehow not racist?

While I do believe mandatory ID laws can and do have the appearance of suppressing minority votes, minorities would not be the only people affected by it, and several people have already stated that. Try and pay attention. We're not just talking about black people, we're talking about the poor, the elderly, the young.....people that comprise far more demographics than just African-American.

You're the one who assumed we were talking about just black people, and you're the one who assumed that we were saying all black people are too poor to buy an ID card.


Didn't read TFA did you:

"The Department of Justice on Friday deemed South Carolina's new law requiring voters to present a state or federal photo ID "legally unenforceable," arguing that it could be discriminatory against minorities in violation of the Voting Rights Act."

It's all about white vs. everyone who is not white to some people.

Not enough?

The report, [from the NAACP] released December 5, calls the laws "coordinated efforts to suppress the growing voting strength of communities of color, the poor, the elderly, the disabled, and the young."
 
2011-12-24 01:41:57 PM  

Mrbogey: You can't prove something that you're legally barred from proving. When you can't ask for identification at a polling place you can't prove someone isn't who they say they are.


So basically you want to disenfranchise millions of people to stop something you can't prove exists from happening?
 
2011-12-24 01:44:30 PM  

Aexia: Nobody's being forced to buy health care any more than they're being "forced" to take out a mortgage or have kids.


You're forced to have healthcare if you're a US citizen. The penalty for not having it is a fee.

Nobody is being force to get a vote. So not having an ID is penalized, how?
 
2011-12-24 01:46:21 PM  
SC resident here. This whole sham is about disenfranchising minorities, nothing more. There is ZERO evidence of voter fraud in SC... if there was voter fraud in SC, it would have to be the Republicans who were doing it because they hold ALL the statewide offices and have for some time (see Alvin Greene as an example of potential voter fraud).

Something else to think about... Elderly people vote more than younger groups, probably because they have more free time on their hands. The largest group of people in SC without IDs are elderly minorities, because it was common for poor minorities in SC to be born at home and may not have a birth certificate as a result (the majority of minority births in SC were at home up until the mid-1970's).

Also, another point... there hasn't been photo ID for most of our country's history, yet democracy has survived.
 
2011-12-24 01:49:44 PM  

Aexia: So basically you want to disenfranchise millions of people to stop something you can't prove exists from happening?


You can't prove it will disenfranchise a single person under that standard.

You're playing "cockroach " logic. During the day, I don't see a single cockroach in my house ergo there is not a single cockroach in it. However, the cockroach doesn't like to announce his presence so if I don't go looking for them or signs they exist, I can't prove they exist.

How about you stop arguing against a law that will not disenfranchise anyone. There is not a single person in America right now that doesn't have some way to verify their identity. It's nonsense to say that we can't verify a person's identity to vote without disenfranchising millions.
 
2011-12-24 01:49:45 PM  

Coco LaFemme: Because that would be common sense, and there's a dearth of that in this country today.


Or, because their real goal has nothing to do with "voter fraud," and everything to do with disenfranchising marginalized groups.
 
2011-12-24 01:50:30 PM  

Mrbogey: You're forced to have healthcare if you're a US citizen. The penalty for not having it is a fee.


If you don't have health insurance, you will pay higher taxes.

Much the same way, if you don't buy a house, you will pay higher taxes. If you don't have kids, you will pay higher taxes.
 
2011-12-24 01:58:20 PM  
LordJiro: It's kinda funny how all the recent *significant* fraud, fraud that changes elections...is done by Republicans. The Indiana Secretary of State and that nonsense in Wisconsin (with the opened ballot bags and all), just to name two recent examples.

off the top of my head there was a recent case in Maryland where robocalls were used to suppress minority voting around Baltimore, MD. Of course this fraud was perpetrated by the GOP.
 
Displayed 50 of 255 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Newest | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report