The difference between cult and religion is the size of the membership roll.

Wonder if the pod ever fails to open.

It feels like that ending to Blazing Saddles, where everything suddenly got too weird. I'm not saying it wasn't weird before, of course, but once they started breaking the fourth wall it just fell into an Event Horizon of Weirdness.

As far as I'm concerned, the movie ended right before the whole French Mistake scene.

On one level, I'm really okay with this. It's a pageant, an entertainment, not a real worship service. And there's nothing wrong with a lot of joyful singing and expression of happy emotions for Christ's birth.

What bothers me, just a little, is this idea that you have to tart-up the religious message every week, with powerpoint slides, a 12-piece rock band, and dancers, just to get it heard. You really don't, not if you "get it' in the first place. What mega-churches do on a weekly basis, in my opinion, is not so much of a religious service, as an entertaining excuse for non-religious people with attention deficit to say they went to "church". But you know what? Fark it, let them go; though I think it's a kind of shallow way to worship, it's still some kind of worship, and that's better than none at all. Celebrate His coming, one and all.

Primum: The difference between cult and religion is the size of the membership roll.

a more useful distinction might be between having a single revered in-the-flesh prophet and a bureaucratic church institution.

The sad thing is, these people believe all of this makes their fairy tales more relevant to the modern world.

Any Pie Left: On one level, I'm really okay with this. It's a pageant, an entertainment, not a real worship service. And there's nothing wrong with a lot of joyful singing and expression of happy emotions for Christ's birth.

What bothers me, just a little, is this idea that you have to tart-up the religious message every week, with powerpoint slides, a 12-piece rock band, and dancers, just to get it heard. You really don't, not if you "get it' in the first place. What mega-churches do on a weekly basis, in my opinion, is not so much of a religious service, as an entertaining excuse for non-religious people with attention deficit to say they went to "church". But you know what? Fark it, let them go; though I think it's a kind of shallow way to worship, it's still some kind of worship, and that's better than none at all. Celebrate His coming, one and all.

They're selling product. In this case, it's a sense of righteousness and self-worth through the redemptive power of the Jesus. They give it away for free ('cause they're production costs are pretty close to zero), and then they schmooze and coerce you into paying for the product in the form of your "offering" to God, (after all, it's already His anyway).

Same with the panhandlers selling charity on the streets. You pay 'em, you feel better about yourself.

My church got mentioned in the article. Sevier Heights Baptist Church in Knoxville, TN. Our church isn't large enough to hold the production in our sanctuary so we rent out an arena. It is an amazingly large production and this year 1,100 people indicated that they accepted Christ. I was a camera grip this year, which is a major upgrade from spotlight operator.

For the person talking about selling product I can assure you that with the offering we take up we don't even intend to break even.

mat catastrophe: The sad thing is, these people believe all of this makes their fairy tales more relevant to the modern world.

As long as there are millions of people all over the world who would gladly kill rape and subjugate others of differing beliefs than theirs, religion, and it's pageantry, will always be relevant.

/not a pure atheist.

AngryJailhouseFistfark: They're selling product. In this case, it's a sense of righteousness and self-worth through the redemptive power of the Jesus. They give it away for free ('cause they're production costs are pretty close to zero), and then they schmooze and coerce you into paying for the product in the form of your "offering" to God, (after all, it's already His anyway).

Same with the panhandlers selling charity on the streets. You pay 'em, you feel better about yourself.

And therefore demonstrates the Virtue of Selfishness? Way to bring Ayn Rand into this, Mr Pot Stirrer

I personally think this kind of Christianity is evolving towards Heinlein's Church of the New Revelation

Primum: The difference between cult and religion is the size of the membership roll.

Tax status.

Teknowaffle: At the Christmas Eve childrens mass at my catholic church in Santa Monica, the Nativity scene was completed by Santa Claus bringing in Jesus and placing him in the manger.

I am sure this really messed up some kids views of the story of Christmas.

I... uh.... REALLY!?

wow... just... wow

Primum: The difference between cult and religion is the size of the membership roll.

The difference between liberal tolerance and hate is the religion being discussed.

Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

Raptop: AngryJailhouseFistfark: They're selling product. In this case, it's a sense of righteousness and self-worth through the redemptive power of the Jesus. They give it away for free ('cause they're production costs are pretty close to zero), and then they schmooze and coerce you into paying for the product in the form of your "offering" to God, (after all, it's already His anyway).

Same with the panhandlers selling charity on the streets. You pay 'em, you feel better about yourself.

And therefore demonstrates the Virtue of Selfishness? Way to bring Ayn Rand into this, Mr Pot Stirrer

I personally think this kind of Christianity is evolving towards Heinlein's Church of the New Revelation

It's a glorious circle of exchange and rationalization. The clergy, or at least the vast majority, don't see themselves fleecing the public. They genuinely believe they're giving something for their compensation. Sure, there's public works done in the form of feeding the elderly, frail, homeless, etc, but that's the cost of doing business - and you know none of 'em are going out of business with their charitable works. The parishioners don't see themselves "buying" a feelgood, but rather giving to God and helping support the charitable works, but the take-away is that they will feel better about themselves. They tell themselves it's the joy of God's Blessing. Call it what you will, but that feelgood's what keeps 'em coming back (and opening their wallets).

They'll all deny it and say it's God's work, His people, flock, assorted sheep metaphors, but like I said, that's the rationalization part. The Human Mind can make sense of all manner of foolishness, especially when you bring in the supernatural.

Oh I'm not complaining, if it helps the marginalized get fed and housed and allows the disorganized and frightened masses to congregate and feel a sense of purpose, I'm all for it.

tacojohn: My church got mentioned in the article. Sevier Heights Baptist Church in Knoxville, TN. Our church isn't large enough to hold the production in our sanctuary so we rent out an arena. It is an amazingly large production and this year 1,100 people indicated that they accepted Christ. I was a camera grip this year, which is a major upgrade from spotlight operator.

For the person talking about selling product I can assure you that with the offering we take up we don't even intend to break even.

Maybe not at that event, but it's the loss-leader to get 'em on board. It's like AT&T selling you a $700 iPhone for $199. Sure, they lose money on that deal, but they know they'll make it up with the subscription. Of that 1,100 new believers, your pastor will have a pretty good idea of what % will backslide in the first week, first month, quarter, etc; Then break down the local demographics and have a pretty good sense of how much the church will collect in the next year.

A tree? Shouldn't they have a huge cross, with people standing on perches all the way up and across the arms? They could sing, "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life."

I went to the Bellevue Baptist Church Singing Christmas Tree every year for about 10 years when I lived in Memphis. At the time, I thought it was pretty cool, because it was very professionally done and they had some very talented musicians and singers. It was also a great way to get in the Christmas spirit. Nowadays, I'm an atheist and I think those southern baptists are crazy nuts, so I wouldn't go near any of those megachurches.

AngryJailhouseFistfark: tacojohn: My church got mentioned in the article. Sevier Heights Baptist Church in Knoxville, TN. Our church isn't large enough to hold the production in our sanctuary so we rent out an arena. It is an amazingly large production and this year 1,100 people indicated that they accepted Christ. I was a camera grip this year, which is a major upgrade from spotlight operator.

For the person talking about selling product I can assure you that with the offering we take up we don't even intend to break even.

Maybe not at that event, but it's the loss-leader to get 'em on board. It's like AT&T selling you a $700 iPhone for $199. Sure, they lose money on that deal, but they know they'll make it up with the subscription. Of that 1,100 new believers, your pastor will have a pretty good idea of what % will backslide in the first week, first month, quarter, etc; Then break down the local demographics and have a pretty good sense of how much the church will collect in the next year.

You're a tad cynical about the whole thing. The entire budget of our church is designed to break even or pretty close to it. Sure our pastor makes a decent salary, but we approve a budget every year that all church members can vote on to decide exactly how much he makes. At any time throughout the year any member can go and look over the books. We make sure everything stays on the up and up. We already approved next years budget before we heard about the 1,100 people. Most of those people will never even walk into our church; they may start going to a church with a family member or a church closer to their house or never go to a single service anywhere.

Soooooo, 1100 people were swayed into Christianity by some glitzy production??? Ummm, yeah. A real profession of faith there.

What, you mean megachurches' nativity scenes have finally caught up with the way they run the rest of their services -- overblown, overbudgeted, superficial spectacles to entertain the masses while simultaneously distracting them from what their holy text actually says about piety, modesty, salvation and faith, all to push some position of moral privilege and exceptionalism?

Color me shocked. That kind of sanctimonious horseshiat is part of the reason I dumped my religion the nanosecond I reached an age of reason sufficient to see it for the hypocritical nonsense it truly is. Now, don't think of that as a blanket "I hate Christianity" statement -- the book is nice and has some nice lessons about morality and a good life in it, but those parts tend to be the ones universally overlooked by those who most fervently call themselves Christian in favor of the passages that merely justify their ludicrous, intolerant, hateful and bigoted bile.

Harridan: Soooooo, 1100 people were swayed into Christianity by some glitzy production??? Ummm, yeah. A real profession of faith there.

I actually agree with you you'll notice I used the phrasing that 1100 indicated that they'd accepted Christ. I'm very skeptical of that number and don't even know if that's what should be reported. So often the church focuses on getting "converts" when the church is really called to make disciples. I have a major disagreement with the way evangelism is done.

29 posts in 8 hours. I guess that tells you how much we care.

\crazy people do crazy things
\\film at 11
\\\thank you, Rick Romero
\\and Captain Obvious

I'm surprised the MegaChurches don't have animatronic Jesus, Mary and Joseph bots riding on dinosaurs and singing the praises of the political right in some Disney like theme ride.

She weeps too much anyway. When she stops thinking about Bono she thinks about her daughter pretending to be a man. It's lose/lose for that loser.

Only slightly off-topic...
I went to a Christmas Eve service a few years and heard this absurdly bowdlerized version of "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas":

"Through the years,
we all will be together,
If the Lord allows..."

Now...first of all. I don't think that anyone was actually invoking the Ancient Greek "Fates" when they sang that song. So to censor this on "First Commandment" grounds is pretty silly.

But what I find fascinating here is that it implicitly (and unintentionally, I'm sure) makes Christianity into a deterministic religion - i.e. Nothing happens unless the Lord makes it happen. Which I'm sure that many sects of Christianity wouldn't agree with.