Sinister? Guh?

'swapping lefties' sounds like a gay sex act

/nttiawwt

erik316wttn: Sinister? Guh?

In ancient times, being left-handed was supposed to be a sign of the devil.

Good trade for both teams.

I still maintain that Marshall has been used incorrectly the last few seasons - I think he will turn out to be a good starter. The only problem was that the Cubs didn't have any good lefty options out of the pen.

Then again, I also thought Rich Hill would be a really solid pitcher.

I hear they can both put sinister bends onto their pitches.

If the cubs are giving up a reliever and getting a starter in return, why are the Reds the ones giving up prospects? Shouldn't a starter (who throws for WAY more innings) be worth more than the reliever?

iron_city_ap: 'swapping lefties' sounds like a gay sex act

/nttiawwt

It's not quite Fister-Furbush, but it'll do.

Evilsmurf: If the cubs are giving up a reliever and getting a starter in return, why are the Reds the ones giving up prospects? Shouldn't a starter (who throws for WAY more innings) be worth more than the reliever?

Seriously. Wood doesn't suck - and he's just the kind of guy who you'd hate to face inside the division once you trade him away.

How the hell the Reds wound up with eight legitimate #3 starters, I dunno - but you'd think they'd get more than a lefty reliever with the first one they dump. Which maybe shouldn't be Woody anyway.

Pratty: erik316wttn: Sinister? Guh?

In ancient times, being left-handed was supposed to be a sign of the devil.

I read the headline started to open the link before my brain went 'Ohhhhh!'

Good jorb Subby!

I liked Marshall. He was one of my favorites. But Good on Theo for selling high.

steveGswine: Evilsmurf: If the cubs are giving up a reliever and getting a starter in return, why are the Reds the ones giving up prospects? Shouldn't a starter (who throws for WAY more innings) be worth more than the reliever?

Seriously. Wood doesn't suck - and he's just the kind of guy who you'd hate to face inside the division once you trade him away.

How the hell the Reds wound up with eight legitimate #3 starters, I dunno - but you'd think they'd get more than a lefty reliever with the first one they dump. Which maybe shouldn't be Woody anyway.

Agreed, I hate to see wood go. If he works on his consistency, he'd be a solid 2 or 3 spot addition. I believe the Reds are trying a "win now" strategy this season, especially with the Central being down this year. I guess Jockety felt a lefty reliever was more valuable.

Evilsmurf: If the cubs are giving up a reliever and getting a starter in return, why are the Reds the ones giving up prospects? Shouldn't a starter (who throws for WAY more innings) be worth more than the reliever?

Well, no. Not necessarily. There are two issues in play:

1. Marshall pitches fewer innings, but tends to pitch more important innings (high leverage index).
2. Marshall pitches fewer innings, but prevents more runs in them than Wood.

By pretty much any objective measurement, Marshall has been a more valuable pitcher. Higher fWAR, higher rWAR, higher WPA each of the last two seasons (the only seasons Wood has been around).

Will that be true going forward? Hard to say. Wood has looked pretty good from time to time. Marshall was pretty bad back in the day. But it seems to be a fair deal.

Travis Wood is the little girl with the curl: When he is good, he is very very good. When he is bad, he is awful.

That said, I hate to see him go. Dude busted ass on every play. I remember him flipping over a rail trying to catch a foul pop. Not sure how well he will do in Chicago, though. More of a fly ball guy.

Marshall, I am lead to believe, gives a high rate of ground balls. Reds have a small park and a good infield set, so hopefully this work to his advantage. I also hope the Reds got an extension on him, otherwise they are a bit on the short end.

bearcats1983: Agreed, I hate to see wood go. If he works on his consistency, he'd be a solid 2 or 3 spot addition. I believe the Reds are trying a "win now" strategy this season, especially with the Central being down this year. I guess Jockety felt a lefty reliever was more valuable.

How does one "work on consistency"? It improves or doesn't, wouldn't you say?

Anyway, the Votto Window closes in two years (or one, if they decide to trade him before his contract expires). I think win now (with the apparent lessened competition) makes sense.

Pratty: In ancient times, being left-handed was supposed to be a sign of the devil.

Now it's a different 10% of the population. Go figure.

Hey, a smart Sports headline.

You don't see that very oft-- well, ever.

Travis Wood lucked out to get away from Dusty Baker.

bearcats1983: steveGswine: Evilsmurf: If the cubs are giving up a reliever and getting a starter in return, why are the Reds the ones giving up prospects? Shouldn't a starter (who throws for WAY more innings) be worth more than the reliever?

Seriously. Wood doesn't suck - and he's just the kind of guy who you'd hate to face inside the division once you trade him away.

How the hell the Reds wound up with eight legitimate #3 starters, I dunno - but you'd think they'd get more than a lefty reliever with the first one they dump. Which maybe shouldn't be Woody anyway.

Agreed, I hate to see wood go. If he works on his consistency, he'd be a solid 2 or 3 spot addition. I believe the Reds are trying a "win now" strategy this season, especially with the Central being down this year. I guess Jockety felt a lefty reliever was more valuable.

Marshall is about as reliable as it gets, plus, he can be converted back to starting IMO.

Travis Wood is now saved from the Dusty Baker arm killing regimen.

Mike Leak... you's farked.

Kygz: Travis Wood is now saved from the Dusty Baker arm killing regimen.

Mike Leak... you's farked.

1) it's Leake. Not Leak.

2) Not to defend Dusty Baker, as I would like to have him gone, but Wood and Prior and ??? Dusty has managed the Giants, the Cubs, the Reds. I don't see an extended list of dead arms caused by some attributable fault of Dusty's managing style.

I don't get the "baseball history" part of the headline. How is this more sinister than John Franco for Randy Myers? Mike Stanton for Felix Heredia? Jarrod Washburn for both Luke French and Mauricio Robles?

I don't even want to watch baseball this season. Ramirez gone to the Brew Crew, Marshall (the only reliever they have that is worth watching. Marmol is great when he's on. I didn't see him "on" at all last season.) heading to Cincinnati, new manager, etc. It's going to be a 5 year wait till the Cubs challenge for the division again.

Al!: I don't even want to watch baseball this season. Ramirez gone to the Brew Crew, Marshall (the only reliever they have that is worth watching. Marmol is great when he's on. I didn't see him "on" at all last season.) heading to Cincinnati, new manager, etc. It's going to be a 5 year wait till the Cubs challenge for the division again.

The upside is that the front office is finally modernizing from the 1950's. When that five years comes around, we're going to start seeing competent baseball players come up from the farm system every year.

I was more excited about acquiring Theo Epstein than I was about the 2007 and 2008 playoffs, because I knew that those teams weren't good enough to win, and were only going to compete for the short term.

dartben: erik316wttn: Sinister? Guh?

sinister is derived from the Latin word for left hand.

"Sinister" is the Latin for "left".

stebain: 2) Not to defend Dusty Baker, as I would like to have him gone, but Wood and Prior and ??? Dusty has managed the Giants, the Cubs, the Reds. I don't see an extended list of dead arms caused by some attributable fault of Dusty's managing style.

Edinson Volquez, Matt Clement. I am guessing there will be more in Cincy now that he has some young arms.

stebain: Kygz: Travis Wood is now saved from the Dusty Baker arm killing regimen.

Mike Leak... you's farked.

1) it's Leake. Not Leak.

2) Not to defend Dusty Baker, as I would like to have him gone, but Wood and Prior and ??? Dusty has managed the Giants, the Cubs, the Reds. I don't see an extended list of dead arms caused by some attributable fault of Dusty's managing style.

"Additionally, many fans, commentators, and writers blamed his tendency to overuse pitchers and for damaging the careers of Robb Nen, Kerry Wood, Mark Prior and Edinson Volquez, earning him the nickname "Widowmaker." Less dramatic cases include Shawn Estes, Bill Swift, John Burkett, Mark Leiter, Kirk Reuter and Aaron Harang. Wood and Prior, along with Edinson Volquez of the Reds, all suffered serious arm injuries following their first full seasons under Baker. Wood and Prior averaged 122 and 126 pitches per start, respectively, in their final six regular-season starts of 2003."

machoprogrammer: Matt Clement

Sorry, but Carl Crawford ruined Clement.

"It's about to get awesome in here, I'm going lefty tonight."

Super Chronic: It's not quite Fister-Furbush, but it'll do.

I wish the Tigers had kept Furbush. I just love the sound of Furbush relieving Fister...

Pratty: erik316wttn: Sinister? Guh?

In ancient times, being left-handed was supposed to be a sign of the devil.

Also, 'Sinster' means 'left'.

steveGswine: Evilsmurf: If the cubs are giving up a reliever and getting a starter in return, why are the Reds the ones giving up prospects? Shouldn't a starter (who throws for WAY more innings) be worth more than the reliever?

Seriously. Wood doesn't suck - and he's just the kind of guy who you'd hate to face inside the division once you trade him away.

How the hell the Reds wound up with eight legitimate #3 starters, I dunno - but you'd think they'd get more than a lefty reliever with the first one they dump. Which maybe shouldn't be Woody anyway.

I think a non-zero amount of that stems from the Hamilton-Volquez trade. When things work out as poorly as that trade did, you start to get a little gun shy. Different GMs, I know, but still, I know a lot of Reds fans are regarding practically every prospect traded in the past week as the next Josh Hamilton, but Alonso is blocked by Votto, Grandal is blocked by Mesoraco (who will play half time this year and take over the starting backstop role in '13), Volquez never bounced back from TJ and needs a change of scenery and Boxburger has been replaced (by Marshall), thus what was given up for Latos, who stands as a solid #2 with ace potential and is locked up for four years.

In the Marshall trade, we lost Travis Wood, who suffered a horrible sophomore slump (and he's a Twilight fan (new window), so no big loss...), though he has a Campana work ethic, Dave Sappelt, who everyone fawned over in Spring Training last year because he hit .650 in Arizona but still needs some polishing, and Ronald Torreyes, a 19-year-old who might as well be Crash Davis if Walt can get Brandon Phillips extended, because he'll never see the grass of GABP.

No Albert, no Prince, no Braun, the time is now. If the prospects aren't going to see the field in 2012, it's time to trade them for players who will.

machoprogrammer: Travis Wood lucked out to get away from Dusty Baker.

Kygz: Travis Wood is now saved from the Dusty Baker arm killing regimen.

Mike Leak... you's farked.

Yep, still lots and lots and lots of idiot Cubs fans out there.

@ CommiePuddin: You don't really think Dusty Baker is a good manager or not bad for pitchers, do you?

Even if you don't hate the Cubs, Dusty Baker's continued employ is an enigma for any team.

Pratty: @ CommiePuddin: You don't really think Dusty Baker is a good manager or not bad for pitchers, do you?

Even if you don't hate the Cubs, Dusty Baker's continued employ is an enigma for any team.

I think he's done more for the Reds than Mackenen, Narron, Miley, Boone, McKeon or Knight ever did, and he's closing in on Sweet Lou. If he can lead the Reds to the postseason this year, he'll have taken the 'legs there more times than any manager since Sparky.

And his handling of pitchers has demonstrably changed (new window), so the "he kills pitchers" meme is obsolete. He doesn't even do the "run your #1 out every fifth day regardless of the spot in the rotation" nonsense he did with Aaron Harang. But keep farking that chicken.

Then again, there is a statistically significant amount of Dusty hate, both in Cincinnati and around baseball, simply because his skin is the wrong color.

CommiePuddin: Pratty: @ CommiePuddin: You don't really think Dusty Baker is a good manager or not bad for pitchers, do you?

Even if you don't hate the Cubs, Dusty Baker's continued employ is an enigma for any team.

I think he's done more for the Reds than Mackenen, Narron, Miley, Boone, McKeon or Knight ever did, and he's closing in on Sweet Lou. If he can lead the Reds to the postseason this year, he'll have taken the 'legs there more times than any manager since Sparky.

And his handling of pitchers has demonstrably changed (new window), so the "he kills pitchers" meme is obsolete. He doesn't even do the "run your #1 out every fifth day regardless of the spot in the rotation" nonsense he did with Aaron Harang. But keep farking that chicken.

Then again, there is a statistically significant amount of Dusty hate, both in Cincinnati and around baseball, simply because his skin is the wrong color.

I don't care what color he is myself, but he's near .500 on his career, .471 in the post season and to me it seems like he's good for a while and then his teams slowly stagnate or get worse. I don't get why a guy with documented problems with pitchers, although he may now be starting to get better, who has not done spectacular things in his career is considered good.

/But hey, if he keeps it up, I'll admit I was wrong