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(Huffington Post)   A Girl Scouts troop's decision to admit a 7-year-old transgender child this fall has prompted three leaders to resign and dissolve their troops. Guess they'll all forfeit their tolerance badges   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 560
    More: Stupid, troops, The Christian Post, prompt corner, inclusion  
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10406 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Dec 2011 at 6:02 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-12-22 10:32:40 AM

osafer: CapnBlues: anarchisthippy: Sorry, but there is no such thing as a 7 year old transgender. They just don't exist. The mom says, "I believe he was born in the wrong body."

So this is trasngenderism that has been forced on a poor 7 year old boy by a woman who really, really wishes she had a girl instead. He did not decide to become a girl on his own. His coont of a mother arbitrarily decided that for him. fark this biatch.

you know how i know you don't know anything about psychology?

you know how i know you don't know anything about children or crazy loons?


:) i see what you're doing. have fun.
 
2011-12-22 10:32:47 AM

CapnBlues: Well, I guess neither of us has data to back up our claims. The best support i could give is the increasing prevalence of transgendered individuals, but I have no citation for that and you don't really care about that anyway, I'm guessing.


I can't recall once in my 30 years of life living on three continents being hobbled by my skeptical leaning views on gender identities, and even with increasing prevalence of transgendered folk it is still a very small minority of the population. It may become more accepted to view a more fluid view of gender identity, but I find it a fairly bold claim to think that not accepting this view is significantly going to 'hobble' someone in day to day life.

Hell, the only time I can even think of considering transexuals was in Thailand and wondering the gender of what I was looking at....

... Or going to college in Austin with Leslie wandering around...

Then again, Christians are a large portion of the population and I can't stand them and my lack of acceptance of their bizzare world views hasn't particularly hobbled me either..
 
2011-12-22 10:33:06 AM

Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...

Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?

Right back at you champ...

Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.


So you would have no problem with this kid at the tender age of 7 to have surgery to remove his penis?
 
2011-12-22 10:34:26 AM

lilplatinum: CapnBlues: Well, I guess neither of us has data to back up our claims. The best support i could give is the increasing prevalence of transgendered individuals, but I have no citation for that and you don't really care about that anyway, I'm guessing.

I can't recall once in my 30 years of life living on three continents being hobbled by my skeptical leaning views on gender identities, and even with increasing prevalence of transgendered folk it is still a very small minority of the population. It may become more accepted to view a more fluid view of gender identity, but I find it a fairly bold claim to think that not accepting this view is significantly going to 'hobble' someone in day to day life.

Hell, the only time I can even think of considering transexuals was in Thailand and wondering the gender of what I was looking at....

... Or going to college in Austin with Leslie wandering around...

Then again, Christians are a large portion of the population and I can't stand them and my lack of acceptance of their bizzare world views hasn't particularly hobbled me either..


The plural of anecdote is data. Your personal experience is likely not representative of everyone's experience.
 
2011-12-22 10:34:51 AM

keylock71: I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: I know what you're saying, but it's the fundamentalists in LA's choice how they want to align and represent themselves. Why should people persecute them because they didn't want to be associated with a group that no longer represents them in the way they wanted it to? People are saying how we should be tolerant, but where's the tolerance for the LA's groups choice to disband?

What the holy hell are you talking about?

The clowns in Louisiana are free to do what they want. And they did. Other folks are free to criticize them for their actions.

No one is being "persecuted", Capt. Hyperbole.


There are reasons why Louisiana is the way it is.

gregory311: Actually, most human beings are a bunch of demented farkwit busybodies. But if you feel that you need to single out one group of people, I guess that's your trip. Have fun!


I've got to agree. Religious conservatives are especially good at it, and the ones in this country just happen to be predominantly Christian, but that's only coincidental.

Jobber8742: I am completely ignorant of this whole transgender thing. At seven, how do you tell the difference between a boy who just likes pretty things and a boy who believes he should be a girl? I don't think the Boobieser in this thread was being hateful in what he said, he just lacked tact in wondering this same thing.


I agree. (And sorry about getting filterpw0ned: happens to all of us at some point.) The kid might be transgender, or might not be, and the part of me raised by scientists wants to say that an expert should investigate. That said, I'm also sensitive to the fact that this is still a murky scientific area, and a lot of practical clinicians have let their arrogance lead them over the years, to various people's detriment. (I'm looking at you, Dr. Money.) That said, I strongly object to the popular conflation of clinical gender identity, socially constructed gender roles, and gender-based affectional orientation. (E.g., boys who play with dolls think they're girls and are probably gay, derp derp.) I also don't share the popular belief that it's some kind irreversible disaster to let a seven-year-old at least experiment with living as a girl, to see if it suits them. My gut instinct is that the kid is a girl, in both the GI and social sense, but I won't put money on that. My real point is that it's just not that big a farking deal.

SevenizGud: Why not trees and rocks?


Don't get your hopes up; they're probably not going to let you in.

StrangeQ: You're right. XY or XX, take your pick (actually don't: you don't have a choice in the matter)


It's not that simple either, though: Chromosomes are a blueprint, not the building. There are several variants, and a complex series of biochemical mechanisms involved in sexual differentiation. There's lots of room for things to go in various directions, and it's probably a lot more common than most people would imagine. Gender dysmorphism is one of many different possible outcomes of the vagaries of these complex processes.

osafer: Please keep your comments to a paragraph or less, and with more snark, this is fark Christ's sake...


I know, I need to work on that. Thanks for the reminder.

meatsack_01: Some people should never breed. In this case it was his my parents.


FTFE

agoodz: Everyone here who believes a 7 year old has the mental capacity to decide they should be a different gender would sign off on that 7 year old having gender reassignment surgery, right? They absolutely "know" by age 7, so there should be no problem with taking away his boy parts.


I'm no expert myself, but I typically defer to people I believe are. (For example, I accept Dr. Hawking's assertions about black holes, without feeling the need to check his math. Even though I realise he could be wrong -- and in fact has been -- I'll never approach his expertise.) I don't know what the specific guidelines are in every case, but it's my understanding that in a number of other modern countries, such as the Netherlands, it's most common to undergo SRS at a much younger age than it typically is in the U.S. Startling as that may be, I suspect the reason we don't hear about this is that it's probably appropriate to do so.

LiquidSky: But instead of telling society to go fly a kite, trans people seem to end up saying "I'm not doing it for society, I'm doing it for me" (obviously I'm generalising here). That's the bit I don't get ... how/why is it for you? Why is the shape of your pink-bits so important that you'd risk major surgery to change? I just don't think gender is that big of a deal once you strip the culturally imposed aspects away.


I think there's a slow movement in the direction you're suggesting. Just as there's a spectrum of gender identity, I think we'll gradually realise a spectrum of social responce to it, including more and more TG persons who decide not to go the surgery route. Kate Bornstein, acclaimed gender activist, famously said that while she has no regrets about having undergone SRS herself, she resents that she felt she was forced to choose at all. The only problem with what you're proposing -- which again, I agree with -- is the huge number of people who honestly believe that genitalia defines gender. (It actually defines sex, not gender, but good luck explaining that.)

uttertosh: Thanks for reminding me as to why I have your name favourit'd!! :-)


^_^

MooseUpNorth: Either way, he's scooping.


When I ran restaurants, I preferred to hire freaks with a few social scars on them. I found them much easier to work with than people who think they already have it all figured out.
 
2011-12-22 10:35:10 AM

osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...

Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?

Right back at you champ...

Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.

So you would have no problem with this kid at the tender age of 7 to have surgery to remove his penis?


Gender reassignment surgery? Don't know. I'm not a doctor. I'd have no problem asking a doctor whether it's something that should be done before or after puberty, due to the release of hormones from the testes.
But then, I'm not an arrogant asshole who wants to force my opinion on people I don't know.

... and you know, that's in the DSM, too. You should take a look... you apparently have a lot of problems.
 
2011-12-22 10:37:33 AM

CapnBlues: The plural of anecdote is data. Your personal experience is likely not representative of everyone's experience.


Seeing as you were the one that made the unsubstantiated assertion that not embracing your world view would somehow hobble a person in modern society, I think the first onus of providing data would be on you. It is a bit disingenuous for you to criticize my anecdotal evidence as not being sufficient when you provide not even that.
 
2011-12-22 10:38:17 AM
Okay, let's be clear: If you are biatching and whining and carrying on about how bad the Colorado Girl Scout troop's decision is, you are so much of a screaming pussy that the GSA wouldn't accept you because they want something more from their membership than a giant vagina. The "The penis must be held as the only sacred part of personhood" schtick was old back in the 1700s, got retarded in the 1800s, was roundly proved false in the 1900s, and if you're still fighting that fight in the 2000s, shoot yourself in the head (both of them) for the genetic good of the species, because real men don't have time to deal with you perpetual 3rd-graders and this "Boyz only, herr-derr-derpy-derp" crap. Gods above, every one of your mothers ought to be charged with treason and/or terrorism against the US for not aborting you.
 
2011-12-22 10:38:30 AM

A Terrible Human: keylock71: Apparently they joined a more fundamentalist girls group... No word on if they're required to wear full burkas and not be seen in public without a male escort.

Yaaay even more religious indoctrination! I'm betting their mothers hope they end up just as hateful and ignorant as they are.


Eh... It could have the reverse effect, too.

I attended a born again christian school for elementary and middle school and belonged to a number of religious groups as a kid and I'm a godless heathen these days specifically because of that school experience.
 
2011-12-22 10:40:29 AM

Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...

Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?

Right back at you champ...

Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.

So you would have no problem with this kid at the tender age of 7 to have surgery to remove his penis?

Gender reassignment surgery? Don't know. I'm not a doctor. I'd have no problem asking a doctor whether it's something that should be done before or after puberty, due to the release of hormones from the testes.
But then, I'm not an arrogant asshole who wants to force my opinion on people I don't know.

... and you know, that's in the DSM, too. You should take a look... you apparently have a lot of problems.




You know how I know when I won an argument?
 
2011-12-22 10:41:22 AM
It's not inconceivable, given that we all carry the genetic instructions for both masculine and feminine development--otherwise every zygote would get 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a boy from Dad and 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a girl from Mom.

WTF? Did you somehow skip primary school genetics? Human males are XY. Females are XX. Does that ring any bells?

The presence of the Y chromosome creates the difference between males and females (actually a small part of it: the SRY gene). The default is female. The presence of the SRY gene = appears male. Since females do not have a Y chromosome, they do NOT carry the instructions for how to make penis/testes. (Technically, there is a rare disorder where there are XX genotypes who do contain the SRY gene ... accidently copied across from a Y chromosome during chromosomal translocation. These XX + SRY's look male and are infertile. It's quite rare: 1 in 20,000 people.)

So your mum gave you your X (if you're male or female) and your dad gave you either your X (if you're female) or your Y (if you're male). Thus your gender is determined by which chromosome you got from your dad.

/your basic point that things can go wrong in development is quite true, but the rest was flat-out wrong.
 
2011-12-22 10:41:24 AM
Find out the locations those troops were in and claim the cookie market!
 
2011-12-22 10:41:46 AM

anarchisthippy: Sorry, but there is no such thing as a 7 year old transgender. They just don't exist.


Please cite your bona fides. There are actual lettered experts with relevant bona fides who disagree with you.

For at least the third time this thread: Believing you know something doesn't make it so.
 
2011-12-22 10:43:31 AM

Billified: The child needs to know why you belive they shouldn't do what they wish. The cake question, the parents should stand firm. The gender question, if after explaining to the child that they will be questioned and unfairly ridiculed by people, that they may have to give up the chance to join gender specific organizations, that their decision will have ramification every moment of their life...if they still want to, the parents should support their child in that choice


It's a goddamn seven year old. He's gonna cry, disregard all you've explained, and insist that he wants what he wants. Do you honestly think a seven year old boy has the capacity to think through something like this, even if explained by parents?
 
2011-12-22 10:43:52 AM

osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...

Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?

Right back at you champ...

Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.

So you would have no problem with this kid at the tender age of 7 to have surgery to remove his penis?

Gender reassignment surgery? Don't know. I'm not a doctor. I'd have no problem asking a doctor whether it's something that should be done before or after puberty, due to the release of hormones from the testes.
But then, I'm not an arrogant asshole who wants to force my opinion on people I don't know.

... and you know, that's in the DSM, too. You should take a look... you apparently have a lot of problems.

You know how I know when I won an argument?


When you start whining about name-calling (that you've been doing)* and dodging all of the legitimate arguments? I'm not sure "won" is the proper term there.

*Plus, I wasn't calling you an arrogant asshole. I was saying that anyone who presumes to "have a problem" with a private medical decision between a doctor and patient they've never met is an arrogant asshole. Are you volunteering for that label?
 
2011-12-22 10:45:49 AM
The mother seems like a huge attention whore been covered yet?
 
2011-12-22 10:47:20 AM

LiquidSky: Human males are XY. Females are XX.


When I was in school, I was taught that there are nine planets, that Jupiter has twelve moons, and that ulcers are caused by bad living. There are now nine planets, I've stopped following the number of moons Jupiter has after the first couple dozen or so, and ulcers are now known to be caused by bacteria. Just for starters, of the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of things I was taught in school that were either found to be mistaken later, or were already fallacious.

What you were taught in school was current science about a decade before you got there (and that's assuming your district is one of the better ones). It's now understood that the chain from chromosomes to gender is not as direct as what you were taught, nor is gender itself as fixed and discrete.

Knowledge evolves over time. I suggest doing the same.
 
2011-12-22 10:49:25 AM

LiquidSky: It's not inconceivable, given that we all carry the genetic instructions for both masculine and feminine development--otherwise every zygote would get 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a boy from Dad and 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a girl from Mom.

WTF? Did you somehow skip primary school genetics? Human males are XY. Females are XX. Does that ring any bells?


You know how, early on in primary school, they taught you that you couldn't subtract a big number from a small number? And then later on, they teach that you actually can, and they're called negative numbers. Or how they teach you that you can't take a square root of a negative number, and then later on they teach you about imaginary and complex numbers?

Same thing. Early on, you were taught that human males are XY and females are XX. Apparently, you never got the more advanced stuff which says, no, there can be XXY, XXX, XYY, XXYY, as well as XY females and XX males. In fact, due to mutations, genes on other chromosomes can activate sexual development, too. Isn't science amazing?
 
2011-12-22 10:49:32 AM

halfof33: The mother group of Christians that pitched a fit and left the troop seems like a huge attention whore been covered yet?


FTFY
 
2011-12-22 10:51:41 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: When I ran restaurants, I preferred to hire freaks with a few social scars on them. I found them much easier to work with than people who think they already have it all figured out.


Wouldn't want anyone butting heads with you, huh?
 
2011-12-22 10:52:36 AM
Jesus christ. My son wanted to be a fireman when he was seven. Id let him play in a hat and a cardboard box, but it would be insane to light the doghouse on fire and let him go at with the garden hose.
 
2011-12-22 10:53:24 AM

LiquidSky: WTF? Did you somehow skip primary school genetics? Human males are XY. Females are XX. Does that ring any bells?


That's primary school genetics for a reason. Because it's incredibly oversimplified to the point of being inaccurate. You can start getting a REAL education on genetics by reading the "intersex" Wikipedia article and the associated links and get info like this.

"The biology of gender is far more complicated than XX or XY chromosomes and may rely more on the brain's very early development than we ever imagined," researcher Eric Vilain, M.D., reported today at the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) Annual Meeting in Washington, D.C.
 
2011-12-22 10:53:51 AM

Theaetetus: LiquidSky: It's not inconceivable, given that we all carry the genetic instructions for both masculine and feminine development--otherwise every zygote would get 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a boy from Dad and 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a girl from Mom.

WTF? Did you somehow skip primary school genetics? Human males are XY. Females are XX. Does that ring any bells?

You know how, early on in primary school, they taught you that you couldn't subtract a big number from a small number? And then later on, they teach that you actually can, and they're called negative numbers. Or how they teach you that you can't take a square root of a negative number, and then later on they teach you about imaginary and complex numbers?

Same thing. Early on, you were taught that human males are XY and females are XX. Apparently, you never got the more advanced stuff which says, no, there can be XXY, XXX, XYY, XXYY, as well as XY females and XX males. In fact, due to mutations, genes on other chromosomes can activate sexual development, too. Isn't science amazing?


Remember the kid that was in your algebra 1 class who was still a senior while you were still a freshman? Some of those kids are in this thread.
 
2011-12-22 10:54:04 AM

Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...

Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?

Right back at you champ...

Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.

So you would have no problem with this kid at the tender age of 7 to have surgery to remove his penis?

Gender reassignment surgery? Don't know. I'm not a doctor. I'd have no problem asking a doctor whether it's something that should be done before or after puberty, due to the release of hormones from the testes.
But then, I'm not an arrogant asshole who wants to force my opinion on people I don't know.

... and you know, that's in the DSM, too. You should take a look... you apparently have a lot of problems.

You know how I know when I won an argument?

When you start whining about name-calling (that you've been doing)* and dodging all of the legitimate arguments? I'm not sure "won" is the proper term there.

*Plus, I wasn't calling you an arrogant asshole. I was saying that anyone who presumes to "have a problem" with a private medical decision between a doctor and ...


That has been my argument the whole way through this thread, The loon of mother of this poor 7 year old has decided to make a private issue with her 7 year old son public by trying to join the GIRL scouts. If you don't see anything wrong with labeling this boy a transgender at this early stage of his life as attention whoring, I don't know what is....
 
2011-12-22 10:54:20 AM

Theaetetus: *Plus, I wasn't calling you an arrogant asshole. I was saying that anyone who presumes to "have a problem" with a private medical decision between a doctor and patient they've never met is an arrogant asshole


Perhaps they have a problem with their attention whore mother parading the kid around in the media. Especially as (according to wiki referencing the DSM, so obviously more legwork for people who actually care more than just wasting time at work) " the majority of children diagnosed with GID cease to desire to be the other sex by puberty".
 
2011-12-22 10:55:20 AM

buck1138: halfof33: The mother group of Christians that pitched a fit and left the troop seems like a huge attention whore been covered yet?

FTFY


I'm sorry, did they go to the press? Did I miss that part?
 
2011-12-22 10:57:40 AM

halfof33: buck1138: halfof33: The mother group of Christians that pitched a fit and left the troop seems like a huge attention whore been covered yet?

FTFY

I'm sorry, did they go to the press? Did I miss that part?


FTFA
"Susan Bryant-Snure, one of the leaders who resigned, told The Baptist Press..."

The mom went to the GSA, not the press.
 
2011-12-22 10:57:42 AM

buck1138: Remember the kid that was in your algebra 1 class who was still a senior while you were still a freshman?


Kinda like you, except with English 1, huh?
 
2011-12-22 10:58:34 AM

mciann: CanisNoir: Does he/she have a penis? If so, he/she should not really be camping with the other girls. That said, the three baitches who quit are being just that, stupid baitches cutting off their nose to spite their face and hurting their own children in the process.

I don't know if you realize how bitterly cruel your first statement here is.


Dunno about cruel, but it don't fit. He isn't a girl, so saying "other" girls is silly.

Try to imagine you've got something attached to you that you have hated from the very moment you understood what it was. Try to imagine years of that one little shred of flesh dictating every circumstance of your life. Imagine years of knowing you will never fit; that you can never be the person you are when you close your eyes; that you must live a life of deceit and misery all of your days because you happen to have this disgusting, vile, embarrassing thing between your legs, even when every other aspect of your being screams to be something else.

Now that's some mighty fine drama ya got there. And some holy-farkin'-shiat peener issues.
But *do* let's roll with this trauma, shall we? If I remember correctly, sometimes Girl Scouts go swimming - may even be some sort of merit badge for this. So do we a) skip this badge for the little boy, or b) risk traumatizing a whole troop of little girls with that "vile, embarrassing thing" that a swimsuit ain't gonna much hide? That's just one possible scenario in terms of camping that comes to mind.

Not knowing the tyke or parents-thereof in-question it's damn near impossible to make any sort or judgement, save to say that like most, I think what goes on in Colorado isn't any of Louisiana's business.

Then read your post again.

You overreacted as badly as the Louisiana parents. There's challenges there that some parents and children aren't prepared to handle and your own (self..?) loathing seems to make you just as intolerant and insensitive towards children and parents that don't have "special" needs. I've dealt with a similar situation (though not an exclusive "girls" organization I had to keep thought to reactions on *both* sides of the issue) and I can tell you I'm glad you weren't part of it. I made arrangements with parents so that I didn't have to deal with issues in a girls locker room (..which, being male-and-not-horrified-of-my-wang I can't effectively deal with) and found the parents (here in Pennsylvania) quite ok with my arrangements. What I didn't want was a bunch of girls to come screaming out of a locker room leaving some poor (and by current definition, socially awkward) child back in the locker room traumatized by the reaction.

So, your high horse? Get off it. Some parents out there don't even know that asthma isn't contagious. And *most* children aren't psychologically equipped to deal with gender issues even if their parents are, so have a care. This is a little *boy* with gender issues and even at the current level of societal tolerance for such things there are still going to be problems. CanisNoir was correct and dealing with the fact of the situation and not freaking out at the peener.
 
2011-12-22 11:00:15 AM

halfof33: buck1138: Remember the kid that was in your algebra 1 class who was still a senior while you were still a freshman?

Kinda like you, except with English 1, huh?


So you feel you've earned your Grammar Nazi Bonafides? Well, good for you.
 
2011-12-22 11:00:43 AM
Hey, as long as the parents didn't make a life long decision for this child like mutilating..er..circumcising him as an infant, who cares?
 
2011-12-22 11:00:56 AM

sexy-fetus: Jesus christ. My son wanted to be a fireman when he was seven. Id let him play in a hat and a cardboard box, but it would be insane to light the doghouse on fire and let him go at with the garden hose.


I like pancakes.

Sorry, I just wanted to contribute a bigger non-sequitur than yours.
 
2011-12-22 11:02:02 AM

buck1138: The mom went to the GSA, not the press.


Funny how ABC heard of it in October.

But I will cheerfully concede that all of them are attention whores.

The kid, the mom, GLAAD, GSA and the scout leaders.
 
2011-12-22 11:04:12 AM
A 7 year old tranny? Unreal.

The parents are batshiat crazy.
 
2011-12-22 11:08:15 AM

osafer: *Plus, I wasn't calling you an arrogant asshole. I was saying that anyone who presumes to "have a problem" with a private medical decision between a doctor and ...

That has been my argument the whole way through this thread, The loon of mother of this poor 7 year old has decided to make a private issue with her 7 year old son public by trying to join the GIRL scouts.


Why shouldn't a 7 year old girl be able to join the GIRL scouts?

You're taking issue with the kid's gender, even though you don't know the kid, have never met her, are not a doctor, etc. I certainly wouldn't presume to be that arrogant.

If you don't see anything wrong with labeling this boy a transgender at this early stage of his life as attention whoring, I don't know what is....

The only thing I see as wrong is intruding into the life of someone you've never met to say that they're doing something "wrong" in their private medical decisions. Repeat after me: "It's not about me. It's not about me."
 
2011-12-22 11:10:10 AM

lilplatinum: Perhaps they have a problem with their attention whore mother parading the kid around in the media.


All she's done is protest when a girl scout troop refused to admit her daughter because of the contents of her pants. That's pretty reasonable. It's the other troops breaking up in protest that are the attention whores.
 
2011-12-22 11:10:29 AM
Theaetetus 2011-12-22 10:30:02 AM

osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...

Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?

Right back at you champ...

Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.




The fact that you believe the DSM and people with degrees in psychology are rock solid science somewhat hampers your arguments
 
2011-12-22 11:10:46 AM

Theaetetus: The only thing I see as wrong is intruding into the life of someone you've never met to say that they're doing something "wrong" in their private medical decisions. Repeat after me: "It's not about me. It's not about me."


How is expressing an opinion about someones 'private medical decision' which has been blasted all over the news, and thus no longer private, intruding into someones life?

If he goes and knocks on their door and starts telling the family how stupid they are, then yes, that would be intruding. Giving an opinion on a very public forum about a very public story? Not so much.
 
2011-12-22 11:11:22 AM

halfof33: buck1138: The mom went to the GSA, not the press.

Funny how ABC heard of it in October.

But I will cheerfully concede that all of them are attention whores.

The kid, the mom, GLAAD, GSA and the scout leaders.


You think that the story of a transgender child joining the GSA isn't going to get out to the press on its own? The Media flocks to anything sensational like this because it brings ratings. Especially in areas where yokels are disgusted by people that are different than them. You don't think that all 7 year olds are attention whores and that this one is somehow different because they are transgender? I'd say you need to take a close look at your own bigotry. You think an organization dedicated to the equal treatment of gays and lesbians is attention whoring? Get over yourself.
 
2011-12-22 11:12:04 AM

Theaetetus: All she's done is protest when a girl scout troop refused to admit her daughter because of the contents of her pants. That's pretty reasonable. It's the other troops breaking up in protest that are the attention whores.


And at some point you have to weigh the moral high ground of protesting a rather insignificant wrong (oh my god, my kid can't join some right wing christian group) to the practical effects on your child.
 
2011-12-22 11:12:11 AM
The only thing I see as wrong is intruding into the life of someone you've never met to say that they're doing something "wrong" in their private medical decisions. Repeat after me: "It's not about me. It's not about me."

How dare I have an opinion different than yours.... You liberals are a funny bunch, you preach tolerance of other people's views, but don't really tolerate them...
 
2011-12-22 11:14:34 AM

lilplatinum: Theaetetus: The only thing I see as wrong is intruding into the life of someone you've never met to say that they're doing something "wrong" in their private medical decisions. Repeat after me: "It's not about me. It's not about me."

How is expressing an opinion about someones 'private medical decision' which has been blasted all over the news, and thus no longer private, intruding into someones life?


Just because the news media are a bunch of assholes doesn't mean we should all start throwing stones.

If he goes and knocks on their door and starts telling the family how stupid they are, then yes, that would be intruding. Giving an opinion on a very public forum about a very public story? Not so much.

Oh, he's certainly entitled to give his opinion. He has every right to do so. He's just an asshole if he does, because it's not about him and his opinion. He's not in this family, he's not a doctor. He's just someone angrily ranting and spewing bile about people he's never met.
 
2011-12-22 11:14:39 AM

Theaetetus: The only thing I see as wrong is intruding into the life of someone you've never met to say that they're doing something "wrong" in their private medical decisions. Repeat after me: "It's not about me. It's not about me."


"I believe he was born in the wrong body," Archuleta, who also confessed to having difficulty switching from male to female pronouns when discussing her child, told ABC.

Odd that you continue to talk about "medical decisions" considering that there are none mentioned in the article. Mom Archuleta a Doctor?

Also, I notice that you don't have a problem intruding into the life of someone you've never met to say that they're doing something "wrong" in their decisions regarding volunteering their time.
 
2011-12-22 11:14:50 AM

RminusQ: StrangeQ: Same question I posed to platinum: was this kid one of those?

How the hell should I know? I prefer to let this family and this child deal with their own situation as they see fit. And while I do not doubt that there are a great number of things that a 7-year-old does not know, I feel like one's self is something you figure out relatively quickly.
Might she change her mind down the road? Might she regret presenting as a girl through her youth? Perhaps. It has happened before and it will happen again. But it's none of my damn business, and you'll notice that very few if any of those advocating a strict binary of genders have any evidence to support their belief that "This is just mommy wanting a daughter and insisting upon her son."


Yeah, but you also have no evidence supporting the contrary. The mother herself said it was how she "feels". No mention is made of how the boy feels. He is going to go along with whatever pleases his parents. That's how children are at that age.

As far as it being no one's business, that is just not true. If it is the mother forcing this on her son then it is abuse, plain and simple. Would you say that it is none of our business when a mother physically abuses her child everyday? I assume you wouldn't.
 
2011-12-22 11:15:09 AM

Theaetetus: Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.


It's relieving to hear that the decision to switch the gender identity of a 7 year old is based on hard, rigorous science. Oh, wait...
 
2011-12-22 11:15:35 AM

lilplatinum: CapnBlues: The plural of anecdote is data. Your personal experience is likely not representative of everyone's experience.

Seeing as you were the one that made the unsubstantiated assertion that not embracing your world view would somehow hobble a person in modern society, I think the first onus of providing data would be on you. It is a bit disingenuous for you to criticize my anecdotal evidence as not being sufficient when you provide not even that.


Look, if you want to be on the wrong side of history, that's your call. You can be counted amongst the likes of Gov George Wallace, or you can recognize that bigotry is on its way out and give up your prejudices. Or I guess you could waste your time arguing minor points on the internet with a complete stranger. All I was trying to get at is that the world is changing, and it's not changing in a direction that favors bigotry.

I can't shake the feeling that I'm talking to a college sophomore libertarian. Merry Christmas, buddy. Take care.
 
2011-12-22 11:17:53 AM

lilplatinum: Theaetetus: All she's done is protest when a girl scout troop refused to admit her daughter because of the contents of her pants. That's pretty reasonable. It's the other troops breaking up in protest that are the attention whores.

And at some point you have to weigh the moral high ground of protesting a rather insignificant wrong (oh my god, my kid can't join some right wing christian group) to the practical effects on your child.


"The Girl Scouts of Colorado has said publicly it supports transgender children, and it released a statement this week saying the group is "an inclusive organization."

The statement, released by the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, reads: 'If a child identifies as a girl and the child's family presents her as a girl, Girl Scouts of Colorado welcomes her as a Girl Scout."

The Girl Scouts of Colorado also said in its statement that it is "reaching out to the family of the excluded child and will be altering its training programs so that all girls are supported.""

Actually, sounds like the GSA is doing the right thing about their rogue scout leader, and the child will learn a valuable lesson about tolerance. Hooray, everyone wins!

... except the bigots, of course, but who gives a fark about them?
 
2011-12-22 11:18:00 AM
I don't get the Christian hate. If they don't agree with the direction the Girl Scouts are going in, with a social agenda that involves acknowledging males as girls entitled to membership, why shouldn't they stop attending, and paying dues. There are other ways to organize the girls for activities and achievements as a group. More power to them. More power to GSA. GSA can do what it wants; and no one has to join or remain a member. It's not a gang. There are no tatoos or memberships for life.

The girls aren't "hurt" by ditching that particular organization. It's nothing a church group can't provide, except GSA badges and uniforms and cookie quotas.
 
2011-12-22 11:18:46 AM

imontheinternet: Theaetetus: Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.

It's relieving to hear that the decision to switch the gender identity of a 7 year old is based on hard, rigorous science. Oh, wait...


Shouldn't you be dowsing somewhere?
 
2011-12-22 11:19:04 AM

buck1138: You think that the story of a transgender child joining the GSA isn't going to get out to the press on its own? The Media flocks to anything sensational like this because it brings ratings. Especially in areas where yokels are disgusted by people that are different than them. You don't think that all 7 year olds are attention whores and that this one is somehow different because they are transgender? I'd say you need to take a close look at your own bigotry. You think an organization dedicated to the equal treatment of gays and lesbians is attention whoring? Get over yourself.


So it looks like we agree then that the kid, the mom, the GSA and the scout leaders are attention whores? GLAAD gets a pass, I guess, I can live with that..
 
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