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(Huffington Post)   A Girl Scouts troop's decision to admit a 7-year-old transgender child this fall has prompted three leaders to resign and dissolve their troops. Guess they'll all forfeit their tolerance badges   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 560
    More: Stupid, troops, The Christian Post, prompt corner, inclusion  
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10401 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Dec 2011 at 6:02 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
 
2011-12-21 10:33:54 PM
Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .
 
2011-12-21 10:59:41 PM
A Colorado-based Girl Scouts troop's decision to admit a 7-year-old transgender child this fall has prompted three leaders to resign and dissolve their troops.

As The Christian Post is reporting, all three of the troop leaders were affiliated with the Northlake Christian School in Covington, Louisiana.


Soooo, a Colorado troup admits the kid, and that makes a bunch of stick-up-their-ass Louisiana Christians think it's their farking business and take the entire experience of scouting away from the girls in their troup. Got it.


This just in: Christians are a bunch of demented f*ckwit busybodies who tend to cut off their noses to spite other people's faces. Ric Romero reports.
 
2011-12-21 11:58:11 PM
Well, f*ck them.
If they can't learn tolerance and respect, they've got no reason to be in the Scouts.
 
2011-12-22 12:10:37 AM
Christians doing god's work and loving others like Jeebus would again I see.
 
2011-12-22 12:16:52 AM

Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .


I don't think puberty is required for sexual identity. There are plenty of transgender people out there who will tell you they identified as such long before puberty. Sometimes it very specifically comes down to genes.
 
2011-12-22 12:18:56 AM
Also, those troop leaders aren't even in the same goddamn state. fark em, let them leave.
 
2011-12-22 12:20:12 AM

Silvara: Also, those troop leaders aren't even in the same goddamn state. fark em, let them leave.


Yeah, it takes a special kind of asshole troop leader to say; "Damn, some other troop leader in a totally different state allowed in a transgender girl, so SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING."
 
2011-12-22 12:20:27 AM
Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

In a word, yes.

Also, consider that the girl in question was admitted to a troop in Colorado, and the troops that broke up are in Louisiana. That's right, people not even in the same state are so butthurt than instead of be mature adults they have to throw hissy fits.
 
2011-12-22 12:23:36 AM

Rincewind53: Silvara: Also, those troop leaders aren't even in the same goddamn state. fark em, let them leave.

Yeah, it takes a special kind of asshole troop leader to say; "Damn, some other troop leader in a totally different state allowed in a transgender girl, so SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING."


Yeah, the pure coontiness of it all is impressive.
 
2011-12-22 12:37:10 AM

Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?


Yes. Gender presentation and who you like to fark are different things.

/I am sure this thread will be thoughtful and respectful.
 
2011-12-22 12:37:22 AM

Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .


Short answer, yes. Check out this article. It's a pretty positive article about identical twin boys that turned out to be a brother and sister,and it lets you know exactly how early this realization can occur.

And I'm assuming the mother knows her daughter somewhat better than us folks reading about it on the internet.
 
2011-12-22 12:40:37 AM

shivashakti: Well, f*ck them.
If they can't learn tolerance and respect, they've got no reason to be in the Scouts.


True story: I was a D.A.R.E role model at that school in high school. My cousins went there. They've always been intolerant assholes.

However, I got to get out of class once a year to talk about what a great role model I was, and I always got a laugh out of that.
 
2011-12-22 12:42:29 AM

Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .


You know how I know you have no farking idea about transgendered people?
 
2011-12-22 12:46:54 AM

m3000: You know how I know you have no farking idea about transgendered people?


Pretty much. Transgendered people start to understand and relate to their gender identity at the same time EVERYONE starts to understand and relate to their gender identity- between 3-5. It's pretty standard and should be understood by more people at this point.

No one's suggesting anyone have surgery as a kid, but they should be able to dress and present as whatever gender they identify with.
 
2011-12-22 01:39:03 AM

Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

 
2011-12-22 01:40:51 AM

Tatsuma: Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?


A gender identity is not the same thing as a sexual identity.
 
2011-12-22 01:41:14 AM
Gig103

As others have pointed out your position is completely incorrect and there's a vast amount of data demonstrating that.

In fact it's MORE likely that a transgender individual will report identity issues prior to puberty rather than after.

What I'm more interested in is why, when you clearly have absolutely no knowledge about it, you felt comfortable telling us what a stupid situation was?

c'est weird non?
 
2011-12-22 01:47:45 AM
So if parents ever come into the workplace trying to fund-raise for their kids in American Heritage Scouts (Boys and Girls), please be so kind as to spit in their eye.
 
2011-12-22 01:48:00 AM

Tigger: Gig103

As others have pointed out your position is completely incorrect and there's a vast amount of data demonstrating that.

In fact it's MORE likely that a transgender individual will report identity issues prior to puberty rather than after.

What I'm more interested in is why, when you clearly have absolutely no knowledge about it, you felt comfortable telling us what a stupid situation was?

c'est weird non?


Because, truthiness. Ya gotta go with your gut. Facts are dangerous.
 
2011-12-22 01:49:58 AM
Correction: Just girls. The BSA is already intolerant enough.
 
2011-12-22 02:15:15 AM

Genevieve Marie: Tatsuma: Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

A gender identity is not the same thing as a sexual identity.


Yea, it would be awesome if she is transgender AND lesbian! That would really freak them out.
 
2011-12-22 02:17:12 AM
I wonder how the parents made the decision between transgender and plain old gay. Just because a little kid says he wants to be a girl isn't enough, or we'd be up to our ears in astronauts and firemen and ballerinas and princesses.
 
2011-12-22 02:23:56 AM
While I'm not sure they handled it well I don't think I would want a male going on campouts and such with my girls with my daughter when they are both going to be going through puberty soon.
 
2011-12-22 02:30:05 AM
EvilEgg: going through puberty soon.

Seven year olds aren't exactly hitting puberty soon. They've got a good oh 3 to 5 years to go before they hit it.
 
2011-12-22 02:39:39 AM

WhyteRaven74: EvilEgg: going through puberty soon.

Seven year olds aren't exactly hitting puberty soon. They've got a good oh 3 to 5 years to go before they hit it.


But they still will be part of the troop when it happens. Also puberty can start much younger than that.
 
2011-12-22 03:15:28 AM
Does he/she have a penis? If so, he/she should not really be camping with the other girls. That said, the three baitches who quit are being just that, stupid baitches cutting off their nose to spite their face and hurting their own children in the process.
 
2011-12-22 03:42:26 AM
one way or another I predict this thread is going to be filled with dicks.
 
2011-12-22 03:49:31 AM
Gender identity is not about sexuality. They are independent concepts.

Gender is a concept of mind and body. The formation of gender specific brain development forms usually results in appropriate physical changes in the body, but there's plenty of data and case studies where they sometimes are mismatched. It happens. It's part of life that some people are caught inbetween. Regardless of the cause, can we not be civilized and accept who they are and let them decide who to live tier lives as their biological dice have been thrown? Why does it matter how a human is configured? Is is certainly not to confirm to mob rule.
 
2011-12-22 03:51:44 AM
Perhaps if your gender is uncertain you should join gender based organizations.
 
2011-12-22 03:56:04 AM

EvilEgg: Perhaps if your gender is uncertain you should join gender based organizations.


So much for teaching tolerance.

"Perhaps if your gender race is uncertain you should join gender race based organizations."

If this is abhorrent by today's standards -- just as the thought of felony "interracial" marriage is today -- why to we look the other way here?

Whatever appended to teaching kids to be good people first notepad of tribal tools?
 
2011-12-22 03:56:53 AM
*happened

Farking Otto Korrekt
 
2011-12-22 04:12:59 AM

lohphat: EvilEgg: Perhaps if your gender is uncertain you should join gender based organizations.

So much for teaching tolerance.

"Perhaps if your gender race is uncertain you should join gender race based organizations."

If this is abhorrent by today's standards -- just as the thought of felony "interracial" marriage is today -- why to we look the other way here?

Whatever appended to teaching kids to be good people first notepad of tribal tools?


No one can be 100% certain of their race. Most people can be 100% certain of their gender.

I'm all for tolerance, but gender is, with rare exceptions, a very easy thing to determine. If yours isn't easy then joining an organization that relies on it may not be your thing. Try Campfire.
 
2011-12-22 04:21:49 AM

EvilEgg:

I'm all for tolerance, but gender is, with rare exceptions, a very easy thing to determine. If yours isn't easy then joining an organization that relies on it may not be your thing. Try Campfire.


Gender of the mid is different than gender if the body and even then there are grey areas. There are a lot of these people. It's not *that* rare.

Whats important here? Beng with others of similar mindset or similar plumbing? Kids at that age don't bathe together.
 
2011-12-22 04:39:32 AM

lohphat: EvilEgg:

I'm all for tolerance, but gender is, with rare exceptions, a very easy thing to determine. If yours isn't easy then joining an organization that relies on it may not be your thing. Try Campfire.

Gender of the mid is different than gender if the body and even then there are grey areas. There are a lot of these people. It's not *that* rare.

Whats important here? Beng with others of similar mindset or similar plumbing? Kids at that age don't bathe together.


Important for who? The transgender person or the others. If the others join an organization only for girls, do their opinions matter? Why not just join a group where it isn't an issue?
 
2011-12-22 04:47:32 AM

EvilEgg: lohphat: EvilEgg:

I'm all for tolerance, but gender is, with rare exceptions, a very easy thing to determine. If yours isn't easy then joining an organization that relies on it may not be your thing. Try Campfire.

Gender of the mid is different than gender if the body and even then there are grey areas. There are a lot of these people. It's not *that* rare.

Whats important here? Beng with others of similar mindset or similar plumbing? Kids at that age don't bathe together.

Important for who? The transgender person or the others. If the others join an organization only for girls, do their opinions matter? Why not just join a group where it isn't an issue?


Define "girl". The majority of them have the brain, mentality, and genitals of young females. Some do not have all three. Some have the plumbing but are mentally and emotionally (and sometimes hormonally) male.

I'd posit that these organizations promote "girlness" not plumbing.
 
2011-12-22 05:47:40 AM
Some people just like being outraged or making a point. If they want to resign, let them and thank them for showing you who they are.
That said, most children are aware of their sexual identity at a young age, but getting a sex change shouldn't be done until adulthood.
 
2011-12-22 06:08:39 AM

lohphat: Define "girl". The majority of them have the brain, mentality, and genitals of young females. Some do not have all three. Some have the plumbing but are mentally and emotionally (and sometimes hormonally) male.


Divorcing hormones from "gender specific emotions and mental states" makes the idea that "male and female" emotions and mental states moot.
 
2011-12-22 06:10:09 AM
I'm a guy and since puberty atleast part of me always wants to be in a girl
 
2011-12-22 06:14:12 AM
That's so gay.
 
2011-12-22 06:18:45 AM
This had better not affect the flow of Samoas.
 
2011-12-22 06:19:46 AM
Got nuts... go to the boy scouts.
Got no nuts... Go to the girl scouts.

Quit using your children to push your social/political agenda.
 
2011-12-22 06:20:30 AM
img85.imageshack.us
 
2011-12-22 06:21:09 AM

MannaxOne: Got nuts... go to the boy scouts.
Got no nuts... Go to the girl scouts.

Quit using your children to push your social/political agenda.


Fallacious logic that last bit. Kids deserve equal access etc. Why no gender neutral scouts though? We can call them Swansons.
 
2011-12-22 06:22:58 AM
boys will be boys....
 
2011-12-22 06:24:35 AM

Tatsuma: Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?


Yes. The day my babby was born I knew he was really a girl in a boy's body.
/This has stupid written all around.
 
2011-12-22 06:24:59 AM
The Girl Scouts have been so much better than the Boy Scouts when it comes to progressive stuff like accepting people different from you, so I'm glad to see the organization continue to live up to its name.
Fark those religious turds, they don't belong in an organization that might actually help people.
 
2011-12-22 06:25:46 AM

God-is-a-Taco: live up to its name.


errr... reputation.
 
2011-12-22 06:26:43 AM
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
 
2011-12-22 06:27:41 AM

MannaxOne: Got nuts... go to the boy scouts.
Got no nuts... Go to the girl scouts.

Quit using your children to push your social/political agenda.


Remind me which group made the big stink about the transgender girl. Was it the family who just wanted their daughter to be allowed in the Girl Scouts? Or was it the 3 butt hurt troop leaders in another state that resigned and disbanded their troops in protest?
 
2011-12-22 06:28:14 AM
I had hope for fark before I realized it's just another hugbox for people who think trannies are something other than mentally ill.
 
2011-12-22 06:29:19 AM

PonceAlyosha: MannaxOne: Got nuts... go to the boy scouts.
Got no nuts... Go to the girl scouts.

Quit using your children to push your social/political agenda.

Fallacious logic that last bit. Kids deserve equal access etc. Why no gender neutral scouts though? We can call them Swansons.


While we're at it, why don't we let them buy beer and cigarrettes? If 7 is old enough to decide on your sexuality, it should be old enough to have other adult responsibilities.
 
2011-12-22 06:29:27 AM
I love the one article the person linked to about the identical twins, one of whom identified as being female. The description of the one who remained male...."he was all boy, liked Spiderman, action figures....." So what type of toys you like defines your gender? I always hated dolls and girl type toys. I was always playing with trucks and boy toys. I always liked sports, caught a lot of crap 30 some years ago for pushing to get girls athletic teams. Hell, I joined the military long before it was common for women to do so. According to what some of you are saying, that makes me male. Not a chance! I prefer being the superior gender.
 
2011-12-22 06:29:32 AM
Why would a bunch of hicks in Louisiana care what a Troop in Colorado does?

The only people they're hurting with this nonsense are the girls in their own Troops.
 
2011-12-22 06:30:36 AM

duffblue: I had hope for fark before I realized it's just another hugbox for people who think trannies are something other than mentally ill.


Awww are you upset that not everyone shares your views about gender? I'd be interested to know if you think that homosexuals are mentally ill.
 
2011-12-22 06:31:02 AM

Genevieve Marie: No one's suggesting anyone have surgery as a kid, but they should be able to dress and present as whatever gender they identify with.



Well, that's certainly one option, OR...

we could take a razor strop to t'em every gd morning and every gd night until they put down the gd dolls and start playing with Hot Wheels like normal little boys their age!!!!

In my day, we had a cure for "gender identity disorder." First round of treatment was sending 'em out to the tree in the front yard to bring back a switch!

The self-loathing and emotional torment is where the masculinity comes from!!!
 
2011-12-22 06:31:31 AM
Girl Scout Promise:

On my honor, I will try:
To serve god and my country, to help people at all times, and to live by the Girl Scout Law.

Girl Scout Law:

I will do my best to be:
Honest and fair, friendly and helpful, considerate and caring, courageous and strong, and responsible for what I say and do,
And to:
Respect myself and others, respect authority, use resources wisely, make the world a better place, and be a sister to every Girl Scout.

/Fark 'em if they can't abide by the Law.
//You'll always have sisters, little chick, regardless of what some asshats think, say, or do.
 
2011-12-22 06:32:06 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: A Colorado-based Girl Scouts troop's decision to admit a 7-year-old transgender child this fall has prompted three leaders to resign and dissolve their troops.

As The Christian Post is reporting, all three of the troop leaders were affiliated with the Northlake Christian School in Covington, Louisiana.

Soooo, a Colorado troup admits the kid, and that makes a bunch of stick-up-their-ass Louisiana Christians think it's their farking business and take the entire experience of scouting away from the girls in their troup. Got it.


This just in: Christians are a bunch of demented f*ckwit busybodies who tend to cut off their noses to spite other people's faces. Ric Romero reports.


This.

Over in two.
 
2011-12-22 06:34:33 AM

CanisNoir: Does he/she have a penis? If so, he/she should not really be camping with the other girls. That said, the three baitches who quit are being just that, stupid baitches cutting off their nose to spite their face and hurting their own children in the process.


I don't know if you realize how bitterly cruel your first statement here is. Try to imagine you've got something attached to you that you have hated from the very moment you understood what it was. Try to imagine years of that one little shred of flesh dictating every circumstance of your life. Imagine years of knowing you will never fit; that you can never be the person you are when you close your eyes; that you must live a life of deceit and misery all of your days because you happen to have this disgusting, vile, embarrassing thing between your legs, even when every other aspect of your being screams to be something else. Then read your post again.
 
2011-12-22 06:37:50 AM

HoneyDog: I love the one article the person linked to about the identical twins, one of whom identified as being female. The description of the one who remained male...."he was all boy, liked Spiderman, action figures....." So what type of toys you like defines your gender? I always hated dolls and girl type toys. I was always playing with trucks and boy toys. I always liked sports, caught a lot of crap 30 some years ago for pushing to get girls athletic teams. Hell, I joined the military long before it was common for women to do so. According to what some of you are saying, that makes me male. Not a chance! I prefer being the superior gender.


You answered your own question. It's not about liking certain toys or playing sports. It's just your preference.
 
2011-12-22 06:37:50 AM
girls scouts is for girls duh
 
2011-12-22 06:38:29 AM
Someone wanted a girl and ended up with a boy. Maybe she had a still born daughter before having him and still farked up from it.
/It would be funny if the boy turn out straight and end hating his mother for this bullshiat.
//That kid don't have the ghey voice. My cousins had theirs around 5 and are ghey to this day.
 
2011-12-22 06:38:50 AM
I love that shred of flesh between my legs.

And despite how I abuse it, it loves me.
 
2011-12-22 06:39:27 AM

Silvara: Also, those troop leaders aren't even in the same goddamn state. fark em, let them leave.


Central Ohio here. The Girl Scout troop that my daughters had just started going to when this went down, was basically torn apart when a majority of the families attending decided they could no longer be a part of the GSA.
 
2011-12-22 06:39:34 AM
The "tolerance" argument is what people use when they can't think of anything to say that makes sense. If your argument is "you are wrong because you are intolerant," then you are wrong.
 
2011-12-22 06:39:53 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: I love that shred of flesh between my legs.

And despite how I abuse it, it loves me.


Congratulations on having a penis?
 
2011-12-22 06:40:27 AM

A Terrible Human: AverageAmericanGuy: I love that shred of flesh between my legs.

And despite how I abuse it, it loves me.

Congratulations on having a penis?


Yeah! High five!
 
2011-12-22 06:40:37 AM

HoneyDog: I love the one article the person linked to about the identical twins, one of whom identified as being female. The description of the one who remained male...."he was all boy, liked Spiderman, action figures....." So what type of toys you like defines your gender? I always hated dolls and girl type toys. I was always playing with trucks and boy toys. I always liked sports, caught a lot of crap 30 some years ago for pushing to get girls athletic teams. Hell, I joined the military long before it was common for women to do so. According to what some of you are saying, that makes me male. Not a chance! I prefer being the superior gender.


So...... Lesbian I take it?
 
2011-12-22 06:41:04 AM
You answered your own question. It's not about liking certain toys or playing sports. It's just your preference.

But from what others have said above, my preference of activities makes me male. I get along and relate better to males. No chick flicks or romance novels for me.
 
2011-12-22 06:41:17 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: Yeah! High five!


Can I still high five you if I don't have one?
 
2011-12-22 06:42:20 AM

EvilEgg: lohphat: EvilEgg:

I'm all for tolerance, but gender is, with rare exceptions, a very easy thing to determine. If yours isn't easy then joining an organization that relies on it may not be your thing. Try Campfire.

Gender of the mid is different than gender if the body and even then there are grey areas. There are a lot of these people. It's not *that* rare.

Whats important here? Beng with others of similar mindset or similar plumbing? Kids at that age don't bathe together.

Important for who? The transgender person or the others. If the others join an organization only for girls, do their opinions matter? Why not just join a group where it isn't an issue?


Forget it. Your logic is no match for the hyperbole. The GSA must be wrong because the BSA did something something something. And Christians! Grrr Christians! Facts! We have facts based on stories we heard from our neighbor's cousin's grocer!

keylock71: Why would a bunch of hicks in Louisiana care what a Troop in Colorado does?

The only people they're hurting with this nonsense are the girls in their own Troops.


*blink blink*

Whew, thanks. A reality check brought me back from the brink.
 
2011-12-22 06:42:46 AM
farm3.static.flickr.com

"Perhaps they were too much a rival fascisti."

/as hot as the seat over there
 
2011-12-22 06:43:26 AM

A Terrible Human: AverageAmericanGuy: Yeah! High five!

Can I still high five you if I don't have one?


If you don't mind where my hand's been, sure!
 
2011-12-22 06:44:44 AM

Gdalescrboz: The "tolerance" argument is what people use when they can't think of anything to say that makes sense. If your argument is "you are wrong because you are intolerant," then you are wrong.



How about "it's none of your farking business, dickwad?"

If the girl is happier, if her parents are at peace with it, if the GSA is accepting of it, and if if the girls and parents of the troop she belongs to have no problem with it... then how about you take your farking nose out of their business and put in a goddamn book for a few minutes and try to knock some of the steaming pile stupid off your farking noggin.
 
2011-12-22 06:44:47 AM
Someone just needs to start the Jesus Scouts of America and let the rest of us get on with teaching our kids to live in this century.
 
2011-12-22 06:45:54 AM

HoneyDog: You answered your own question. It's not about liking certain toys or playing sports. It's just your preference.

But from what others have said above, my preference of activities makes me male. I get along and relate better to males. No chick flicks or romance novels for me.



"Golly, everybody... Look how farking stupid I am! Aren't I clever?"
 
2011-12-22 06:46:36 AM
ftfa Archuleta, who also confessed to having difficulty switching from male to female pronouns when discussing her child, told ABC.

Heh, more proof it's the parent having the gender identity issue, not the kid.
 
2011-12-22 06:46:50 AM
This is the real reason the kid can't join. She'll find out they put crack in these:
i43.tinypic.com
 
2011-12-22 06:48:29 AM

HoneyDog: You answered your own question. It's not about liking certain toys or playing sports. It's just your preference.

But from what others have said above, my preference of activities makes me male. I get along and relate better to males. No chick flicks or romance novels for me.


But you still identify as female and that's the point. It's only a matter of what you prefer to identify as, male or female. Someone can identify as a girl and still not like stereotypically girl things as you have shown.
 
2011-12-22 06:48:46 AM
They could start their own scouting organization if they don't like the rules of the existing one.
 
2011-12-22 06:49:43 AM
Those paramilitary cookie fascists are acting like a bunch of paramilitary cookie fascists.
 
2011-12-22 06:49:45 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: A Terrible Human: AverageAmericanGuy: Yeah! High five!

Can I still high five you if I don't have one?

If you don't mind where my hand's been, sure!


I'lold

And A Terrible Human, you desperately need to lighten up. You'll never get a husband with that attitude.
 
2011-12-22 06:50:04 AM

steve_lou: This is the real reason the kid can't join. She'll find out they put crack in these:
[i43.tinypic.com image 320x272]


SAMOAS!!!!!
 
2011-12-22 06:51:28 AM
Sounds to me like Mommy wanted a girl.
 
2011-12-22 06:51:47 AM

chuggernaught: keylock71: Why would a bunch of hicks in Louisiana care what a Troop in Colorado does?

The only people they're hurting with this nonsense are the girls in their own Troops.

*blink blink*

Whew, thanks. A reality check brought me back from the brink.


Heh... It just seems very counterproductive to me.

It's the same twisted mentality that brought us the wonderful phrase, "We had to destroy the village in order to save it".
 
2011-12-22 06:52:54 AM

Hair Salad: Sounds to me like Mommy wanted a girl.



I hope your parents wanted a retard.
 
2011-12-22 06:53:47 AM

Baron Von Supercock: And A Terrible Human, you desperately need to lighten up. You'll never get a husband with that attitude.


Lol wut?

/My fiance and me are rather happy.
 
2011-12-22 06:54:57 AM
A good soldier obeys without question. A good officer commands without doubt.
Blessed is the mind too small for doubt.
To admit defeat is to blaspheme against the Emperor.
For those who seek perfection there can be no rest on this side of the grave.
The difference between heresy and treachery is ignorance.
Knowledge is power, guard it well.
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
Innocence proves nothing.
Success is commemorated; Failure merely remembered.
Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life.
Only in death does duty end.
No man died in His service that died in vain.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Beginning reform is beginning revolution.
Educate men without faith and you but make them clever devils.
Success is measured in blood; yours or your enemy´s.
The man who has nothing can still have faith.
Burn the heretic. Kill the mutant. Purge the unclean.
It is better to die for the Emperor than to live for yourself.
Fear denies faith.
Foolish are those who fear nothing, yet claim to know everything.
Brave are they who know everything yet fear nothing.
Happiness is a delusion of the weak.
All souls call out for salvation.
Life is the Emperor's currency, spend it well.
A suspicious mind is a healthy mind.
Cowards die in shame.
Faith without deeds is worthless.
True Happiness stems only from Duty.
The blood of martyrs is the seed of the Imperium.
Heresy grows from idleness.
There is only the Emperor, and he is our shield and protector.
Truth is Subjective.
Damnation is Eternal.
Know the Mutant; Kill the Mutant.
To Question is to doubt.
He who keeps silent consents.
Prayer cleanses the soul, Pain cleanses the body.
Death by thy Compass.
Zeal is its own Excuse.
Work earns Salvation.
Without him there is nothing.
Only the Emperor is all.
Hatred is the emperor's greatest gift to humanity.
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none.
A small mind is easily filled with faith.
 
2011-12-22 06:55:17 AM
TFA: A Colorado-based Girl Scouts troop's decision to admit a 7-year-old transgender child this fall has prompted three leaders to resign and dissolve their troops.

[Simmons yelling incoherently in the background throughout scene.]

Grif: "What the hell is going on here?"
Donut: "You know what? I honestly have no idea what's going on. I think everyone in this organization is absolutely insane."
Grif: "How'd you get them to resign?"
Donut: "I don't know. I just included a transgendered kid."
Grif: "Wait. That worked?"
Donut: "I guess... Was it not supposed to?"
Grif: "I don't know... We never even thought to try that."


/ Seriously, Kudos to the Girl Scouts.
// Huh. Maybe we _can_ take the BSA back from the fundies.
 
2011-12-22 06:57:54 AM

Dadoody: Burn the heretic. Kill the mutant. Purge the unclean.


i.imgur.com

Can we start with you?
 
2011-12-22 07:12:22 AM

keylock71: Why would a bunch of hicks in Louisiana care what a Troop in Colorado does?

The only people they're hurting with this nonsense are the girls in their own Troops.


They don't care at all. They're lazy, and attention whores. They got exactly what they wanted - they don't have to do anymore scouting with their kids, and they can martyr themselves for drama.
 
2011-12-22 07:14:49 AM
That is so sick that some children are different. I hate different things. They're so weird and different. His parents are wrong for not punishing him for being different. I can only hope that the other kids harass and punish this kid for being so farking different, so he will be ashamed of it.
 
2011-12-22 07:16:01 AM
He's a boy. Boys join boy scouts.
 
2011-12-22 07:18:24 AM
Okay, I got halfway through this thread and it was extremely intelligent.

I had to stop reading, there's no way a FARK transgender thread can go this smoothly forever. I will quit while I am ahead.
 
2011-12-22 07:19:17 AM
In the UK the Scouts Association accepts both Girls and Boys.
 
2011-12-22 07:20:01 AM
Uh... so the criteria for gender now is "whatever one says"?

So be it. Can that also be true of the person I'm screwing? Regardless of whether they have a penis or not, their gender is whatever I say it is. This paradigm shift will help me out lots in certain parts of town I like to visit.

God Bless the girl scouts.
 
2011-12-22 07:21:09 AM
This mother needs to be arrested for child abuse. She couldn't be damaging this poor boy more if she beat him daily. Children shouldn't be used as a tool to promote your own deviant ideas.
 
2011-12-22 07:24:53 AM

syrynxx: I wonder how the parents made the decision between transgender and plain old gay. Just because a little kid says he wants to be a girl isn't enough, or we'd be up to our ears in astronauts and firemen and ballerinas and princesses.


I dunno...that sounds better than our current situation, up to our ears in currency traders and Kardashians...
 
2011-12-22 07:25:28 AM

A Terrible Human: Dadoody: Burn the heretic. Kill the mutant. Purge the unclean.

[i.imgur.com image 251x189]

Can we start with you?


i253.photobucket.com

The God Emperor of Mankind frowns upon your lack of knowledge.
 
2011-12-22 07:26:12 AM
One girl was called Jean Marie,
Another little girl was called Felicity,
Another little girl was Sally Joy,
The other was me, and I'm a boy.
 
2011-12-22 07:26:16 AM

BillCo: This mother needs to be arrested for child abuse. She couldn't be damaging this poor boy more if she beat him daily. Children shouldn't be used as a tool to promote your own deviant ideas.


You shall be known by your words. Your sad, sad, cruel words. Have a lovely day.
 
2011-12-22 07:27:17 AM
I want to have my stain of bacteria admitted to the girl scouts.

phil.cdc.gov

Sure, it's a different species, but you would only know that if you observed it.

Whatsamatter? Where's your tolerance?
 
2011-12-22 07:28:28 AM

BillCo: This mother needs to be arrested for child abuse. She couldn't be damaging this poor boy more if she beat him daily. Children shouldn't be used as a tool to promote your own deviant ideas.


How do you know for sure it's the mothers idea? Also physical abuse is very damaging to a child. It leads to an adult who almost cowers when anyone raises their voice because they're afraid that the next thing to happen will be a beating.

/Ask me about the arm my dad broke when I was 4 because I wasn't getting out of the car fast enough.
 
2011-12-22 07:29:00 AM
If a kid wants to pretend to be a space alien do we all have to go along with it?
 
2011-12-22 07:29:13 AM

A Terrible Human: Dadoody: Burn the heretic. Kill the mutant. Purge the unclean.

[i.imgur.com image 251x189]

Can we start with you?



Be glad this isn't a furry thread.

/+1 to the WH40K reference.
 
2011-12-22 07:30:57 AM

SevenizGud: I want to have my stain of bacteria admitted to the girl scouts.

[phil.cdc.gov image 640x428]

Sure, it's a different species, but you would only know that if you observed it.

Whatsamatter? Where's your tolerance?




What a remarkably well reasoned point...
 
2011-12-22 07:31:18 AM

duffblue: I had hope for fark before I realized it's just another hugbox for people who think trannies are something other than mentally ill.


You seem to be unfamiliar with prenatal brain development...I recommend suing whoever taught you high school biology.

Or sue your Intelligent Designer...he's probably got deeper pockets.
 
2011-12-22 07:32:51 AM
Holy farking shiat....is this whole thread really about what defines a male and a female? For all of you that are saying " ooh...it's a mental state that defines gender...ooh". No it doesn't. Guys have a big fat hairy dick hanging between their legs, girls don't (That's the actual Webster's definition btw).

This state of appeasement that we are trying to build is just ridiculous. He is physically a boy....he should go to BOY scouts. Maybe this kid's mom should shy away from clubs that are based on gender if his isn't so easily defined. If he's gay then he should still go to boy scouts and yes, they should be tolerant. The girl scouts wrote their rule book long before kids wanted to cut their dicks off before middle school.

I feel for him/her/whatever because he has made a decision that is going to make EVERY choice difficult for the rest of his life. And yeah, before you can say anything emo kids....being transgender at age 7 is 100% a choice. Being gay is not be a choice, but going for gusto sure the fark is. Just because your mind is confused and you don't know how to deal with it AT AGE FARKING 7, doesn't mean you have to jump off the proverbial deep end just to be "true to yourself" in the SECOND GRADE. This thread makes me hate society. And you, if you're reading this....I hate you too. lol
 
2011-12-22 07:33:49 AM

MannaxOne: Got nuts... go to the boy scouts.
Got no nuts... Go to the girl scouts.

Quit using your children to push your social/political agenda.


And what if the child has both nuts and a coont? What then, of great fountain of wisdom?

(Yeah, yeah, know the child in question is not a hermaphrodite, but just wondering what you have to say on this.)
 
2011-12-22 07:39:29 AM

I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: Holy farking shiat....is this whole thread really about what defines a male and a female? For all of you that are saying " ooh...it's a mental state that defines gender...ooh". No it doesn't. Guys have a big fat hairy dick hanging between their legs, girls don't (That's the actual Webster's definition btw).

This state of appeasement that we are trying to build is just ridiculous. He is physically a boy....he should go to BOY scouts. Maybe this kid's mom should shy away from clubs that are based on gender if his isn't so easily defined. If he's gay then he should still go to boy scouts and yes, they should be tolerant. The girl scouts wrote their rule book long before kids wanted to cut their dicks off before middle school.

I feel for him/her/whatever because he has made a decision that is going to make EVERY choice difficult for the rest of his life. And yeah, before you can say anything emo kids....being transgender at age 7 is 100% a choice. Being gay is not be a choice, but going for gusto sure the fark is. Just because your mind is confused and you don't know how to deal with it AT AGE FARKING 7, doesn't mean you have to jump off the proverbial deep end just to be "true to yourself" in the SECOND GRADE. This thread makes me hate society. And you, if you're reading this....I hate you too. lol


By the way, 7 year old boys are not allowed in the Boy Scouts.

/Just saying.
 
2011-12-22 07:40:17 AM

I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: rant


I'll direct you to the article:

The Girl Scouts of Colorado subsequently released a statement through the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) in support of Archuleta and her excluded daughter, noting, "If a child identifies as a girl and the child's family presents her as a girl, Girl Scouts of Colorado welcomes her as a Girl Scout."

Added Rachelle Trujillo, vice president for communications of the Colorado Girl Scouts: "If a child is living as a girl, that's good enough for us. We don't require any proof of gender."



The Colorado Troop in question apparently doesn't have a problem with it. Some backwoods fundamentalists in Louisiana do.
 
2011-12-22 07:41:42 AM
/BillCo: This mother needs to be arrested for child abuse. She couldn't be damaging this
/poor boy more if she beat him daily. Children shouldn't be used as a tool to promote your
/own deviant ideas.

2/10
You're trying too hard. Bound to get some bites tho
 
2011-12-22 07:41:44 AM

SevenizGud: I want to have my stain of bacteria admitted to the girl scouts.

[phil.cdc.gov image 640x428]

Sure, it's a different species, but you would only know that if you observed it.

Whatsamatter? Where's your tolerance?


Ha ha ha! Yeah! It's just like that whole black people in the back of the bus thing! Now they want to let bacteria ride in the front of the bus!

Ha ha ha! Bacteria in the front of the bus!

As if!
 
2011-12-22 07:42:42 AM

Mock26: MannaxOne: Got nuts... go to the boy scouts.
Got no nuts... Go to the girl scouts.

Quit using your children to push your social/political agenda.

And what if the child has both nuts and a coont? What then, of great fountain of wisdom?

(Yeah, yeah, know the child in question is not a hermaphrodite, but just wondering what you have to say on this.)


Plenty of other clubs that can be joined without controversy. Why pick the hardest (giggity)? If it was my kid, I would try to make his life as easy as I could, even if it meant sheltering him/her from things that are probably not fair.
 
2011-12-22 07:43:22 AM
Situation 1: Boy decides to be feminine before even going to school with little input from peers, etc.

Situation 2: farked up granola-eating faux hippie latte swilling "parent" decides that she wanted to have a girl all along, and screw genetics. Dresses the child as a girl from early age and from the time it could speak, has been subtly "offering" the child a female gender

...paging Dr. Occam...

It's true that gender identity is a matter of personal preference (notice I refrained from using the word "choice") and this should be respected...but it's also true that a massively huge number of parents treat their children as combination doll/experiments with little regard to the child's eventual well-being. Maybe we're lucky with this case...

But I doubt it.
 
2011-12-22 07:44:07 AM

give me doughnuts: So if parents ever come into the workplace trying to fund-raise for their kids in American Heritage Scouts (Boys and Girls), please be so kind as to spit in their eye.


If that not tolerances,I don't know what is....
 
2011-12-22 07:44:18 AM

I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: Plenty of other clubs that can be joined without controversy. Why pick the hardest (giggity)? If it was my kid, I would try to make his life as easy as I could, even if it meant sheltering him/her from things that are probably not fair.


Thing is the troop this kid belongs to had no issues with her. It's just some fundie twats in Louisiana being twats.
 
2011-12-22 07:44:56 AM
Thats fine, the GSA can do whatever they want in this instance.

but my GIRL SCOUT wont be sharing tents, bathrooms or activities with a girlwithboyparts scout.
 
2011-12-22 07:45:27 AM

keylock71: Why would a bunch of hicks in Louisiana care what a Troop in Colorado does?


Well, duh. The answer is pretty obvious. Transgender means gay, and if a transgender (gay) boy is allowed into a Girl Scout troop in Colorado then any girl or leader who comes in contact or close proximity with that child then that person becomes gay. And once teh gay infects one person then it will first start to spread up the chain of command and from there spread back down the chain of command to different states then districts then troops. And before you know it all the girl scouts in Louisiana are gay.
 
2011-12-22 07:46:20 AM

Hair Salad: Sounds to me like Mommy wanted a girl.


+1

The sooner we admit a sort of psycho-social Munchausen by proxy syndrome is at work in many of these cases -- along with the explosion in "diagnoses" of snowflakes suffering from this mental disorder or that psychological problem -- the closer we'll get to reality. And sanity.
 
2011-12-22 07:46:26 AM
Seems it worked out well for everyone. The intolerant folks went to their echo-chamber knockoff of Girl Scouts, and the main organization is better for it. GSA rocks.
 
2011-12-22 07:47:43 AM

I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: Holy farking shiat....is this whole thread really about what defines a male and a female? For all of you that are saying " ooh...it's a mental state that defines gender...ooh". No it doesn't. Guys have a big fat hairy dick hanging between their legs, girls don't (That's the actual Webster's definition btw).


A person's sex and gender are different things.

/how many times should this be repeated in the thread?

SevenizGud: I want to have my stain of bacteria admitted to the girl scouts.

[phil.cdc.gov image 640x428]

Sure, it's a different species, but you would only know that if you observed it.

Whatsamatter? Where's your tolerance?


Your intelligent and well thought out post astounds me. Transgender == different species. Simply amazing!
 
2011-12-22 07:49:11 AM

o5iiawah: but my GIRL SCOUT wont be sharing tents, bathrooms or activities with a girlwithboyparts scout.


Lol you should dissolve troop in protest over this horrible injustice.
 
2011-12-22 07:49:40 AM

I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: Mock26: MannaxOne: Got nuts... go to the boy scouts.
Got no nuts... Go to the girl scouts.

Quit using your children to push your social/political agenda.

And what if the child has both nuts and a coont? What then, of great fountain of wisdom?

(Yeah, yeah, know the child in question is not a hermaphrodite, but just wondering what you have to say on this.)

Plenty of other clubs that can be joined without controversy. Why pick the hardest (giggity)? If it was my kid, I would try to make his life as easy as I could, even if it meant sheltering him/her from things that are probably not fair.


But not many clubs of the same type as the Girl Scouts (or Boy Scouts for that matter).
 
2011-12-22 07:50:41 AM

Silvara: Sometimes it very specifically comes down to genes.


genes are one of the very things scientifically identifying the child as a boy, oddly enough.
 
2011-12-22 07:50:54 AM

TheOmni: And I'm assuming the mother knows her daughter somewhat better than us folks reading about it on the internet


She knows "her" so well she calls her a "he".

Baryogenesis: Remind me which group made the big stink about the transgender girl. Was it the family who just wanted their daughter to be allowed in the Girl Scouts? Or was it the 3 butt hurt troop leaders in another state that resigned and disbanded their troops in protest?


I would say trying to getting a male in a group with is primarily defined as a group that is made up of no males is making a stink.
 
2011-12-22 07:52:40 AM

PonceAlyosha: MannaxOne: Got nuts... go to the boy scouts.
Got no nuts... Go to the girl scouts.

Quit using your children to push your social/political agenda.

Fallacious logic that last bit. Kids deserve equal access etc. Why no gender neutral scouts though? We can call them Swansons.


There are gender neutral scouts. They are called venturers. Age range is a little older though.
Link (new window)
 
2011-12-22 07:53:52 AM

keylock71: I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: rant

I'll direct you to the article:

The Girl Scouts of Colorado subsequently released a statement through the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) in support of Archuleta and her excluded daughter, noting, "If a child identifies as a girl and the child's family presents her as a girl, Girl Scouts of Colorado welcomes her as a Girl Scout."

Added Rachelle Trujillo, vice president for communications of the Colorado Girl Scouts: "If a child is living as a girl, that's good enough for us. We don't require any proof of gender."


The Colorado Troop in question apparently doesn't have a problem with it. Some backwoods fundamentalists in Louisiana do.


I know what you're saying, but it's the fundamentalists in LA's choice how they want to align and represent themselves. Why should people persecute them because they didn't want to be associated with a group that no longer represents them in the way they wanted it to? People are saying how we should be tolerant, but where's the tolerance for the LA's groups choice to disband?
 
2011-12-22 07:56:43 AM
As far as the real world is concerned, your being male or female is not subject to your feelings, only your body.

A boy is trying to get into girl scouts and it's not "intolerant" for the girl scouts to reject him.
 
2011-12-22 07:57:46 AM
Baryogenesis: Remind me which group made the big stink about the transgender girl. Was it the family who just wanted their daughter to be allowed in the Girl Scouts? Or was it the 3 butt hurt troop leaders in another state that resigned and disbanded their troops in protest?

I would say trying to getting a male in a group with is primarily defined as a group that is made up of no males is making a stink.

The scout troop ended up welcoming the transgender child. Yes, quite the uproar.
 
2011-12-22 07:58:26 AM
Why isn't there a mixed gender scouting group? One where you both go camping and learn to sew on a button.

Just call it "Scouts of America" and let both boys and girls join? My nieces both quit girl scouts because in their words "They do boring things and we never get to go camping or hiking"
 
2011-12-22 08:00:59 AM
At 7 years old the parents should be protecting this child. He has a lifetime to make a decision on how he wants yo live his life. I feel sorry for him because now this will be known to his peers and will have a difficult time in school. People are delusional if you don't think he will be taunted by all of this. The parents of the girls have the right to raise their daughters as they see fit. They pulled them out of the girl scouts and joined another group and now there is no more girl scout troop in the area because of someone else trying to impose their values onto someone else. Everyone has the right to live their life according to their values.
 
2011-12-22 08:01:06 AM

Baryogenesis: I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: Holy farking shiat....is this whole thread really about what defines a male and a female? For all of you that are saying " ooh...it's a mental state that defines gender...ooh". No it doesn't. Guys have a big fat hairy dick hanging between their legs, girls don't (That's the actual Webster's definition btw).

A person's sex and gender are different things.


You are correct my friend, but either way I'm sure you can decipher my point out of all this.

 
2011-12-22 08:03:12 AM

Snappingturtle: At 7 years old the parents should be protecting this child. He has a lifetime to make a decision on how he wants yo live his life. I feel sorry for him because now this will be known to his peers and will have a difficult time in school. People are delusional if you don't think he will be taunted by all of this. The parents of the girls have the right to raise their daughters as they see fit. They pulled them out of the girl scouts and joined another group and now there is no more girl scout troop in the area because of someone else trying to impose their values onto someone else. Everyone has the right to live their life according to their values.


I don't know the kid seems pretty happy in the video. Gender identity starts very young and he would be teased and made fun of for being trans at any age. If when he gets older he decides to live as a boy there is nothing stopping him from doing that.
 
2011-12-22 08:03:26 AM

I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: I know what you're saying, but it's the fundamentalists in LA's choice how they want to align and represent themselves. Why should people persecute them because they didn't want to be associated with a group that no longer represents them in the way they wanted it to? People are saying how we should be tolerant, but where's the tolerance for the LA's groups choice to disband?


What the holy hell are you talking about?

The clowns in Louisiana are free to do what they want. And they did. Other folks are free to criticize them for their actions.

No one is being "persecuted", Capt. Hyperbole.
 
2011-12-22 08:03:29 AM

mciann: CanisNoir: Does he/she have a penis? If so, he/she should not really be camping with the other girls. That said, the three baitches who quit are being just that, stupid baitches cutting off their nose to spite their face and hurting their own children in the process.

I don't know if you realize how bitterly cruel your first statement here is. Try to imagine you've got something attached to you that you have hated from the very moment you understood what it was. Try to imagine years of that one little shred of flesh dictating every circumstance of your life. Imagine years of knowing you will never fit; that you can never be the person you are when you close your eyes; that you must live a life of deceit and misery all of your days because you happen to have this disgusting, vile, embarrassing thing between your legs, even when every other aspect of your being screams to be something else. Then read your post again.


When these topics come up on FARK one theme that comes up repeatedly is tolerance. The idea is put forth that if someone isn't harming anyone (including themselves) they should be left alone.

So why all the pen1s hate?
According to the prevailing attitude of those professing tolerance in these threads that pen1s cannot/does not define you.

So why hate it so much?
 
2011-12-22 08:11:55 AM

keylock71: I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: I know what you're saying, but it's the fundamentalists in LA's choice how they want to align and represent themselves. Why should people persecute them because they didn't want to be associated with a group that no longer represents them in the way they wanted it to? People are saying how we should be tolerant, but where's the tolerance for the LA's groups choice to disband?

What the holy hell are you talking about?

The clowns in Louisiana are free to do what they want. And they did. Other folks are free to criticize them for their actions.

No one is being "persecuted", Capt. Hyperbole.


Maybe you aren't seeing the same comments I am about how we should all spit on the group from LA when we see them? And yeah, I'd say spitting on someone for disagreeing is 100% persecution.
 
2011-12-22 08:14:23 AM

I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: Maybe you aren't seeing the same comments I am about how we should all spit on the group from LA when we see them? And yeah, I'd say spitting on someone for disagreeing is 100% persecution.


While I don't want to spit on them I just think they're hateful twats. Is that persecution also?
 
2011-12-22 08:15:32 AM

I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: keylock71: I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: rant

I'll direct you to the article:

The Girl Scouts of Colorado subsequently released a statement through the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) in support of Archuleta and her excluded daughter, noting, "If a child identifies as a girl and the child's family presents her as a girl, Girl Scouts of Colorado welcomes her as a Girl Scout."

Added Rachelle Trujillo, vice president for communications of the Colorado Girl Scouts: "If a child is living as a girl, that's good enough for us. We don't require any proof of gender."


The Colorado Troop in question apparently doesn't have a problem with it. Some backwoods fundamentalists in Louisiana do.

I know what you're saying, but it's the fundamentalists in LA's choice how they want to align and represent themselves. Why should people persecute them because they didn't want to be associated with a group that no longer represents them in the way they wanted it to? People are saying how we should be tolerant, but where's the tolerance for the LA's groups choice to disband?


This. I think the fundamentalists' opinion is backward and stupid and closed-minded and all that, but they're still free to have it. I fail to see how their refusal to associated with GLBTWTFBBQ individuals is in any way my business.
 
2011-12-22 08:15:34 AM

Carth: Snappingturtle: At 7 years old the parents should be protecting this child. He has a lifetime to make a decision on how he wants yo live his life. I feel sorry for him because now this will be known to his peers and will have a difficult time in school. People are delusional if you don't think he will be taunted by all of this. The parents of the girls have the right to raise their daughters as they see fit. They pulled them out of the girl scouts and joined another group and now there is no more girl scout troop in the area because of someone else trying to impose their values onto someone else. Everyone has the right to live their life according to their values.

I don't know the kid seems pretty happy in the video. Gender identity starts very young and he would be teased and made fun of for being trans at any age. If when he gets older he decides to live as a boy there is nothing stopping him from doing that.


All I am saying is the parents should protect the child while he is growing up. How he wants to live is no one else's business. Also it is no one else's business how the girl's parents want to raise them.We live in a country where we are supposed to be free from persecution for whatever beliefs we have.
 
2011-12-22 08:15:38 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: A Colorado-based Girl Scouts troop's decision to admit a 7-year-old transgender child this fall has prompted three leaders to resign and dissolve their troops.

As The Christian Post is reporting, all three of the troop leaders were affiliated with the Northlake Christian School in Covington, Louisiana.

Soooo, a Colorado troup admits the kid, and that makes a bunch of stick-up-their-ass Louisiana Christians think it's their farking business and take the entire experience of scouting away from the girls in their troup. Got it.


This just in: Christians are a bunch of demented f*ckwit busybodies who tend to cut off their noses to spite other people's faces. Ric Romero reports.


Actually, most human beings are a bunch of demented farkwit busybodies. But if you feel that you need to single out one group of people, I guess that's your trip. Have fun!
 
2011-12-22 08:15:49 AM

TheOmni: Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .

Short answer, yes. Check out this article. It's a pretty positive article about identical twin boys that turned out to be a brother and sister,and it lets you know exactly how early this realization can occur.

And I'm assuming the mother knows her daughter somewhat better than us folks reading about it on the internet.


That would kind of preclude the "it's genetic" argument.
 
2011-12-22 08:15:51 AM
intolerant bunch, not letting people different then them join their group...

www.thecotilliononline.com

Link (new window)
 
2011-12-22 08:16:55 AM
It's called girl scouts, not feminine scouts.
 
2011-12-22 08:17:52 AM

A Terrible Human: I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: Maybe you aren't seeing the same comments I am about how we should all spit on the group from LA when we see them? And yeah, I'd say spitting on someone for disagreeing is 100% persecution.

While I don't want to spit on them I just think they're hateful twats. Is that persecution also?


No it isn't. That's just an opinion.
 
2011-12-22 08:17:56 AM
There are plenty of adult men who are girl scouts. What's one more boy? (biologically, anyway)

What whiny children these troop leaders are.
 
2011-12-22 08:18:02 AM
I am not an expert on gender issues but even if I were without meeting this girl I wouldn't be able to make the sort of definitive 'he's a boy', or 'she's a girl' statements you folks are making. I would hope, though, that we could all agree that the folks putting their views ahead of the troops by disbanding are coonts.
 
2011-12-22 08:18:40 AM

NEDM: A Terrible Human: Dadoody: Burn the heretic. Kill the mutant. Purge the unclean.

[i.imgur.com image 251x189]

Can we start with you?

[i253.photobucket.com image 640x466]

The God Emperor of Mankind frowns upon your lack of knowledge.


Probably took the saying "Blessed is the mind too small to doubt." a bit too much to heart.

Slaanesh would happily have them in the ranks of the daemonette guides.

wh40k.lexicanum.com
 
2011-12-22 08:20:15 AM

I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: Maybe you aren't seeing the same comments I am about how we should all spit on the group from LA when we see them? And yeah, I'd say spitting on someone for disagreeing is 100% persecution.

per·se·cute

: to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict;

What punishment or injury has been inflicted on the LA folks?

None.

These folks now have their precious snow flakes in a more fundamentalist group more in line with their outdated beliefs. Everyone is happy and no one is being persecuted.

So stop whining.
 
2011-12-22 08:20:26 AM

Egoy3k: I am not an expert on gender issues but even if I were without meeting this girl I wouldn't be able to make the sort of definitive 'he's a boy', or 'she's a girl' statements you folks are making. I would hope, though, that we could all agree that the folks putting their views ahead of the troops by disbanding are coonts.


To be definitive you would have to see the kid's genitals and that would land you a visit from "why don't you take a seat right over there" guy
 
2011-12-22 08:23:11 AM
Can't figure out if it's hate disguised as fear
or
fear disguised as hate

Not suuuuure . . .

well anyway, just keep being good christians and uh, drop dead as soon as you can, mmmkay?
 
2011-12-22 08:23:15 AM

TravisBickle62: Egoy3k: I am not an expert on gender issues but even if I were without meeting this girl I wouldn't be able to make the sort of definitive 'he's a boy', or 'she's a girl' statements you folks are making. I would hope, though, that we could all agree that the folks putting their views ahead of the troops by disbanding are coonts.

To be definitive you would have to see the kid's genitals and that would land you a visit from "why don't you take a seat right over there" guy


Even then you couldn't be sure. Look at that female sprinter who everyone said what a male. They had to do all kinds of genetic testing a simple "pull down your pants" doesn't always work.
 
2011-12-22 08:23:34 AM

Tigger: In fact it's MORE likely that a transgender individual will report identity issues prior to puberty rather than after.


Considering Gender Identity is a sociological and psychological concept rather than something hard science can deal with, claiming absolute facts is fairly dangerous.

/But seriously, girl scouts, don't you have better things to do than whine about "dangerous" seven year olds that don't fit your repressed little world view?
 
2011-12-22 08:25:03 AM
Kudos to the Girl Scout troop for being accepting. There isn't a real reason to exclude this child other than other people's butthurt. But, this child will never be fully accepted as a girl. This kid can certainly not play on a girl's sports team, nor should she be allowed to. There are physical differences between boys and girls, and unfortunately you can't just let this child play on the girl's team. It is unfair, but to let the child play, it would be unfair to the other girls.

I am completely ignorant of this whole transgender thing. At seven, how do you tell the difference between a boy who just likes pretty things and a boy who believes he should be a girl? I don't think the Boobieser in this thread was being hateful in what he said, he just lacked tact in wondering this same thing.
 
2011-12-22 08:25:34 AM

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: One girl was called Jean Marie,
Another little girl was called Felicity,
Another little girl was Sally Joy,
The other was me, and I'm a boy.


Get your frock on, Jane Marie.
Brush your hair, Felicity.
Paint your nails, little Sally Joy.
Put this wig on, little boy. . . .

Didn't check to see if this got posted already. Hope not.

/LOVE the Who
 
2011-12-22 08:25:37 AM

Silvara: I don't think puberty is required for sexual identity. There are plenty of transgender people out there who will tell you they identified as such long before puberty. Sometimes it very specifically comes down to genes.


You know what? If I'd spent thousands of dollars mutilating myself I might be able to imagine (falsely) that I'd always thought of myself that way. In fact, I could claim that anything anyone doesn't like about me has "always been there" in order to avoid questions about how I got the way I am.

Q: Excuse me, Kal-el. When did you decide to be super-human?
A: Oh, I've been superhuman as along as I can remember. In fact I landed in a spaceship and was found by the Kents, my foster parents.

Yeah, unless you were found in a rocket ship from the planet we-put-spirits-in-the-wrong-body-topia, odds are it's just your selective memory and selective analysis looking at a few choice memories and a few select photographs and reinforcing the facts as you now know them.
 
2011-12-22 08:26:22 AM

Baryogenesis:

Your intelligent and well thought out post astounds me. Transgender == different species. Simply amazing!


It's the GIRL scouts. The person was not a girl, douchenozzle. So if you folks are going to allow people who are not girls into the GIRL scouts, then why stop at this species? Why not horses and bacteria? Why not trees and rocks?
 
2011-12-22 08:26:45 AM

Carth: TravisBickle62: Egoy3k: I am not an expert on gender issues but even if I were without meeting this girl I wouldn't be able to make the sort of definitive 'he's a boy', or 'she's a girl' statements you folks are making. I would hope, though, that we could all agree that the folks putting their views ahead of the troops by disbanding are coonts.

To be definitive you would have to see the kid's genitals and that would land you a visit from "why don't you take a seat right over there" guy

Even then you couldn't be sure. Look at that female sprinter who everyone said what a male. They had to do all kinds of genetic testing a simple "pull down your pants" doesn't always work.


It may not always work but in 99.9% of the cases it will
 
2011-12-22 08:27:09 AM

Silvara: Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .

I don't think puberty is required for sexual identity. There are plenty of transgender people out there who will tell you they identified as such long before puberty. Sometimes it very specifically comes down to genes.


You're right. XY or XX, take your pick (actually don't: you don't have a choice in the matter)
 
2011-12-22 08:28:24 AM

I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice:
I know what you're saying, but it's the fundamentalists in LA's choice how they want to align and represent themselves. Why should people persecute them because they didn't want to be associated with a group that no longer represents them in the way they wanted it to? People are saying how we should be tolerant, but where's the tolerance for the LA's groups choice to disband?



They weren't being persecuted, they resigned their positions. They weren't being persecuted, they were the persecutors who would not have been allowed to march with their agenda which is bigoted, selfish and unhealthy for children to be around.

They shouldn't be scout leaders unless they can show tolerance for diverse situations.
 
2011-12-22 08:28:54 AM

StrangeQ: You're right. XY or XX, take your pick (actually don't: you don't have a choice in the matter)


What about XXY or various other trisomys?
 
2011-12-22 08:30:32 AM

SevenizGud: Baryogenesis:

Your intelligent and well thought out post astounds me. Transgender == different species. Simply amazing!

It's the GIRL scouts. The person was not a girl, douchenozzle. So if you folks are going to allow people who are not girls into the GIRL scouts, then why stop at this species? Why not horses and bacteria? Why not trees and rocks?


Do you understand the difference between sex and gender?

People who care that much about 7 year olds' sex organs have problems.
 
2011-12-22 08:31:16 AM
I'm not against living-and-letting-live. I've known a couple of transfolk ("Tranny" is considered derogatory these days.) and had no particular problem with them. People are who they are. The people in question pay taxes, vote, etc. and are entitled to conduct their lives without being f*cked with.

That said, I DO think that at some point everyday reality has to kick in. If I employ someone who thinks he's really a cat, am I morally obliged to provide him with a litter box?
 
2011-12-22 08:31:20 AM
Little brown boy girls aren't the answer.
 
2011-12-22 08:31:33 AM

haemaker: Genevieve Marie: Tatsuma: Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

A gender identity is not the same thing as a sexual identity.

Yea, it would be awesome if she is transgender AND lesbian! That would really freak them out.


Like one of my good friends is?
 
2011-12-22 08:32:44 AM

Marcintosh: Can't figure out if it's hate disguised as fear
or
fear disguised as hate

Not suuuuure . . .

well anyway, just keep being good christians and uh, drop dead as soon as you can, mmmkay?


Mensa doesn't hate or fear you, you just didn't meet the criteria. You'll get over it.
 
2011-12-22 08:32:56 AM

Baryogenesis: Baryogenesis: Remind me which group made the big stink about the transgender girl. Was it the family who just wanted their daughter to be allowed in the Girl Scouts? Or was it the 3 butt hurt troop leaders in another state that resigned and disbanded their troops in protest?

I would say trying to getting a male in a group with is primarily defined as a group that is made up of no males is making a stink.

The scout troop ended up welcoming the transgender child. Yes, quite the uproar.


The fact remains that this all started with a family wanting a male in an all-female group. I think the peopel from LA are asshats, but don't pretend thay are the only ones making afuss.
 
2011-12-22 08:33:04 AM
gender & sexual identity is not a choice.

And neither is a binary proposition. There is a gender continuum. This kid feels that she is a girl regardless of the physical display of male sex organs. Just like I feel like a straight male.

I didn't choose to be a straight male, I was born that way...most lucky people are born with the physical & emotionally gender aligned - it helps keep the species going. Others are not, but it is in no way a choice.
 
2011-12-22 08:33:58 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Soooo, a Colorado troup admits the kid, and that makes a bunch of stick-up-their-ass Louisiana Christians think it's their farking business and take the entire experience of scouting away from the girls in their troup. Got it.


Or you know, since the leaders are generally volunteers, they may have quit because not getting paid to have crazies scream at them doesn't seem like a fun way to spend their free time. It's possible the leaders are intolerant farkwards, but it's also possible they just didn't want to be stuck in the middle of the mess.
 
2011-12-22 08:34:08 AM

Carth: Do you understand the difference between sex and gender?

People who care that much about 7 year olds' sex organs have problems.


Well, technically, if it is Girl Scouts it would be referring to sex and not gender.

Dictionary defines Girl as "a female child, from birth to full growth."

and female as "a person bearing two X chromosomes in the cell nuclei and normally having a vagina, a uterus and ovaries, and developing at puberty a relatively rounded body and enlarged breasts, and retaining a beardless face; a girl or woman."

Regardless of what you want to call yourself in the social construct of gender, under a strict reading, Girl scouts are based on sex...
 
2011-12-22 08:36:28 AM
The controversy began when Felisha Archuleta protested against a Denver troop's decision to not initially allow her transgender daughter, Bobby Montoya, to join the group. "I believe he was born in the wrong body," Archuleta, who also confessed to having difficulty switching from male to female pronouns when discussing her child, told ABC. "But the Girl Scout leader told us he can't join because he has 'boy parts.'... But no one would know he's a boy unless they pulled his pants down."

Your child is a boy who is farked in the head because of YOU.
He's not "transgendered," just confused as hell.
 
2011-12-22 08:36:38 AM

FaceRape: This kid feels that she is a girl regardless of the physical display of male sex organs.


The word "girl" in girl scouts is a word that denotes sex, not gender. A bulldyke would be accepted to girl scouts, because it has a vagina. This isn't a difficult concept...
 
2011-12-22 08:36:53 AM

FaceRape: I didn't choose to be a straight male, I was born that way...most lucky people are born with the physical & emotionally gender aligned - it helps keep the species going


Interesting that you have solved the nature/nuture debate - you should call the psychologists and sociologists of the world and tell them that you've got that one off their plate for them..
 
2011-12-22 08:41:05 AM

keylock71: I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: Maybe you aren't seeing the same comments I am about how we should all spit on the group from LA when we see them? And yeah, I'd say spitting on someone for disagreeing is 100% persecution.

per·se·cute
: to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict;

douch.baggery
: to act like or imitate Keylock71.

Stop getting hung up on one word out of a long statement there buddy. And by your so carefully executed definition you'd say that me spitting on you for not believing what I believe isn't persecution? Sweet! Come on over and let SpitFest 99' begin!

 
2011-12-22 08:41:19 AM
Am I the only one who reads "transgendered 7 year old" as "parents wanted a girl?"
 
2011-12-22 08:41:21 AM

lilplatinum: Carth: Do you understand the difference between sex and gender?

People who care that much about 7 year olds' sex organs have problems.

Well, technically, if it is Girl Scouts it would be referring to sex and not gender.

Dictionary defines Girl as "a female child, from birth to full growth."

and female as "a person bearing two X chromosomes in the cell nuclei and normally having a vagina, a uterus and ovaries, and developing at puberty a relatively rounded body and enlarged breasts, and retaining a beardless face; a girl or woman."

Regardless of what you want to call yourself in the social construct of gender, under a strict reading, Girl scouts are based on sex...


I think that would depend on the girl scouts charter or at least the legal definition not the one in merriam webster. The legal definition of female is a lot more involved.
 
2011-12-22 08:43:27 AM
To repeat the title of Lord Bertrand Russell's book. "Why I Am Not A Christian".
 
2011-12-22 08:45:39 AM
Call it the pussy scouts. Then if your son wanted to join, then you could argue that he is a pussy.
 
2011-12-22 08:45:55 AM

IAMTHEINTARWEBS: According to the prevailing attitude of those professing tolerance in these threads that pen1s cannot/does not define you.

So why hate it so much?


Because others use the penis to define you, whether you want them to or not. It's like if you're born with a third hand. You might not consider that the most important thing about you, and you might not want people to consider that the most important thing about you, but damn if there won't be some school kids who call you "Three-hand, three-hand, lalalala mutant three-hand".

I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: Maybe you aren't seeing the same comments I am about how we should all spit on the group from LA when we see them? And yeah, I'd say spitting on someone for disagreeing is 100% persecution.


Doing a search through this thread for "spit" produces two results. One saying you should spit on anyone selling goods for BSA/GSA, and the other calling the first one intolerant.
 
2011-12-22 08:46:43 AM

Jobber8742: Kudos to the Girl Scout troop for being accepting. There isn't a real reason to exclude this child other than other people's butthurt. But, this child will never be fully accepted as a girl. This kid can certainly not play on a girl's sports team, nor should she be allowed to. There are physical differences between boys and girls, and unfortunately you can't just let this child play on the girl's team. It is unfair, but to let the child play, it would be unfair to the other girls.

I am completely ignorant of this whole transgender thing. At seven, how do you tell the difference between a boy who just likes pretty things and a boy who believes he should be a girl? I don't think the Boobieser in this thread was being hateful in what he said, he just lacked tact in wondering this same thing.


How do you tell the difference? You don't. The child tells you. In fact the child keeps telling everyone she or he can, and hopefully someone listens.
 
2011-12-22 08:47:51 AM

Baryogenesis: HoneyDog: You answered your own question. It's not about liking certain toys or playing sports. It's just your preference.

But from what others have said above, my preference of activities makes me male. I get along and relate better to males. No chick flicks or romance novels for me.

But you still identify as female and that's the point. It's only a matter of what you prefer to identify as, male or female. Someone can identify as a girl and still not like stereotypically girl things as you have shown.


I believe her point is that at age 7, children are remarkably malleable towards echoing their parents' wishes. In her case, because of her outwardly male social orientation, had her parents decided she was transgendered, she likely would have gone along with it -- despite her not actually being transgendered; merely tomboyish.

7 year olds aren't old enough to choose their own bed times. It's somewhat ridiculous to simultaneously believe they can understand the ramifications of reassigning their gender.
 
2011-12-22 08:49:02 AM

This text is now purple: Baryogenesis: HoneyDog: You answered your own question. It's not about liking certain toys or playing sports. It's just your preference.

But from what others have said above, my preference of activities makes me male. I get along and relate better to males. No chick flicks or romance novels for me.

But you still identify as female and that's the point. It's only a matter of what you prefer to identify as, male or female. Someone can identify as a girl and still not like stereotypically girl things as you have shown.

I believe her point is that at age 7, children are remarkably malleable towards echoing their parents' wishes. In her case, because of her outwardly male social orientation, had her parents decided she was transgendered, she likely would have gone along with it -- despite her not actually being transgendered; merely tomboyish.

7 year olds aren't old enough to choose their own bed times. It's somewhat ridiculous to simultaneously believe they can understand the ramifications of reassigning their gender.


So if a 7 year old does say "I want to live as a girl" should the parents say no and force them to live as a boy?
 
2011-12-22 08:49:36 AM
What the fark? So they don't think that a child with a penis and no female sex organs should be joining the Girl Scouts? Whats wrong with these people.
 
2011-12-22 08:50:05 AM

Carth: lilplatinum: Carth: Do you understand the difference between sex and gender?

People who care that much about 7 year olds' sex organs have problems.

Well, technically, if it is Girl Scouts it would be referring to sex and not gender.

Dictionary defines Girl as "a female child, from birth to full growth."

and female as "a person bearing two X chromosomes in the cell nuclei and normally having a vagina, a uterus and ovaries, and developing at puberty a relatively rounded body and enlarged breasts, and retaining a beardless face; a girl or woman."

Regardless of what you want to call yourself in the social construct of gender, under a strict reading, Girl scouts are based on sex...

I think that would depend on the girl scouts charter or at least the legal definition not the one in merriam webster. The legal definition of female is a lot more involved.


Legally speaking it simply depends on the state's application of civil rights legislation. Federal civil rights legislation does not prevent private clubs from discrimination while some states do, and even in those that do you have to be one of the ones that includes "gender identity" as a protected class.

Also from a non law but just legal definition of girl concept, I suppose it would depend on if his family got the gender changed on the birth certificate - not sure what the requirements of that are since I don't care enough to look.
 
2011-12-22 08:50:46 AM

Carth: So if a 7 year old does say "I want to live as a girl" should the parents say no and force them to live as a boy?


If a 7 year old says "I want to eat cake for 3 meals a day" should the parents say no and force him to eat his dinner?
 
2011-12-22 08:51:34 AM

imontheinternet: Am I the only one who reads "transgendered 7 year old" as "parents wanted a girl?"


Perhaps they just wanted a unique hobby.

Some people collect snakes. Some people collect commemorative plates. These people decided to screw up their child's life.
 
2011-12-22 08:52:05 AM

imontheinternet: Am I the only one who reads "transgendered 7 year old" as "parents wanted a girl?"


No, there are plenty of other douchebags who got here before you.

lilplatinum: StrangeQ: You're right. XY or XX, take your pick (actually don't: you don't have a choice in the matter)

What about XXY or various other trisomys?


Or persons with XY and female genitalia. Or XX and male genitalia. They are rare, but they occur.
 
2011-12-22 08:52:54 AM

Charles Martel: Perhaps they just wanted a unique hobby.

Some people collect snakes. Some people collect commemorative plates. These people decided to screw up their child's life.



You should pray for them.
 
2011-12-22 08:53:13 AM

imontheinternet: Am I the only one who reads "transgendered 7 year old" as "parents wanted a girl?"


imontheinternet: Am I the only one who reads "transgendered 7 year old" as "parents wanted a girl?"


No. A 7 year old has no clue on what sex they are other then mine is an outtie and her's is an innie. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy . I can almost guarantee that this child's mother is a complete loon...
 
2011-12-22 08:53:13 AM
There is a strong current of Fundies isolating themselves from the communities as a whole. They have separate Scout like organizations, they home school, their social excursions are to church related functions, and they go to schools/colleges/media that only reinforce their narrow world views.

No wonder that they are constantly shocked and appalled when they run into something that does not fit with their paradigm.

No wonder younger evangelicals are abandoning the cloister.
 
2011-12-22 08:53:50 AM
technicolor-misfit 2011-12-22 06:44:44 AM

Gdalescrboz: The "tolerance" argument is what people use when they can't think of anything to say that makes sense. If your argument is "you are wrong because you are intolerant," then you are wrong.


How about "it's none of your farking business, dickwad?"

If the girl is happier, if her parents are at peace with it, if the GSA is accepting of it, and if if the girls and parents of the troop she belongs to have no problem with it... then how about you take your farking nose out of their business and put in a goddamn book for a few minutes and try to knock some of the steaming pile stupid off your farking noggin.


You also someone is wrong when they turn to insults. On a side note, you complety missed my point. If you can't come up with a better argument that "you are intolerant," then it doesnt sound liek you have a very good argument
 
2011-12-22 08:55:56 AM

lilplatinum:

Legally speaking it simply depends on the state's application of civil rights legislation. Federal civil rights legislation does not prevent private clubs from discrimination while some states do, and even in those that do you have to be one of the ones that includes "gender identity" as a protected class.

Also from a non law but just legal definition of girl concept, I suppose it would depend on if his family got the gender changed on the birth certificate - not sure what the requirements of that are since I don't care enough to look.


Federally it goes by your birth certificate I didn't care enough to look into what CO's requirements were to change it.

lilplatinum: Carth: So if a 7 year old does say "I want to live as a girl" should the parents say no and force them to live as a boy?

If a 7 year old says "I want to eat cake for 3 meals a day" should the parents say no and force him to eat his dinner?


If a person can be genetically born to only eat cake than yes. It is like telling your gay son he still has to date females.
 
2011-12-22 08:56:38 AM

RminusQ: imontheinternet: Am I the only one who reads "transgendered 7 year old" as "parents wanted a girl?"

No, there are plenty of other douchebags who got here before you.

lilplatinum: StrangeQ: You're right. XY or XX, take your pick (actually don't: you don't have a choice in the matter)

What about XXY or various other trisomys?

Or persons with XY and female genitalia. Or XX and male genitalia. They are rare, but they occur.


Same question I posed to platinum: was this kid one of those?
 
2011-12-22 08:57:43 AM
I have a 7 year old son who thinks he is an armed and legged person in a quadruple amputee's body. And I agree with him.

Should we have his arms and legs cut off, or have him live a lie, doing untold psychological trauma, and scarring him for life?
 
2011-12-22 08:57:55 AM

liverleef: What the fark? So they don't think that a child with a penis and no female sex organs should be joining the Girl Scouts? Whats wrong with these people.


Here on fark, if a group of Christians thinks or does something, many farkers will generally take an opposing position. It doesn't even matter if they have to take an obviously falsifiable position either, as long as they can feel secure in knowing they didn't agree with a Christian.
 
2011-12-22 08:58:11 AM

StrangeQ: RminusQ: imontheinternet: Am I the only one who reads "transgendered 7 year old" as "parents wanted a girl?"

No, there are plenty of other douchebags who got here before you.

lilplatinum: StrangeQ: You're right. XY or XX, take your pick (actually don't: you don't have a choice in the matter)

What about XXY or various other trisomys?

Or persons with XY and female genitalia. Or XX and male genitalia. They are rare, but they occur.

Same question I posed to platinum: was this kid one of those?


If you want to pay for the genetic testing you can make the offer to the parents.
 
2011-12-22 08:58:18 AM
The child has every right to be what they want to be but trying to join an organization that by definition excludes you is just making a nuisance of yourself. THAT being said, the chapter she joined let her in. So the real problem here is with the other stuckup coonts that give a shiat.
 
2011-12-22 08:59:26 AM

Carth:
If a person can be genetically born to only eat cake than yes. It is like telling your gay son he still has to date females.


Except

1) The extent of genetic to social influence in Genetic Identity Disorder is still largely up to date

and more importantly

2) In this case we are assuming that because a 7 year old wants to be a girl they automatically qualify on the DSM-IV as having it.
 
2011-12-22 08:59:54 AM
So, what happens in 7 years when "she" wants to join the Girl's Volleyball/Soccer Team in school? Is it competative fairness? As a parent of a 14, 15, 16 year year old girl are you ok letting your daughter shower with "her"? If she's successful, does she get a spot on the Women's Olympic Team?

At what point do we begin telling the kid, "Sorry honey, you have a penis and we don't accept those in this organization"?

Personally, I think boys should be allowed to join Girl Scouts, and vice versa. The organizations teach two different sets of activities and in todays society it's not a profound statement if a man wants to cook/sew or a woman wants to hunt/fish/camp.
 
2011-12-22 09:00:06 AM

RminusQ: iNo, there are plenty of other douchebags who got here before you.


A boy who likes to play with dolls and act feminine isn't necessarily a girl. He might just be gay. Why are you so prejudiced against gay people that you would force them to be something they're not, i.e. straight females? Do gay people scare you? Do you also think black people should be raised as whites if they show an affinity for polka music and mayonaise at a young age?

You're clearly a bigot. I'm reporting you to the Liberal Butthurt Brigade.
 
2011-12-22 09:00:07 AM
Why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?
 
2011-12-22 09:00:17 AM

Gdalescrboz: How about "it's none of your farking business, dickwad?"


Gdalescrboz: technicolor-misfit 2011-12-22 06:44:44 AM

Gdalescrboz: The "tolerance" argument is what people use when they can't think of anything to say that makes sense. If your argument is "you are wrong because you are intolerant," then you are wrong.


How about "it's none of your farking business, dickwad?"


If the girl is happier, if her parents are at peace with it, if the GSA is accepting of it, and if if the girls and parents of the troop she belongs to have no problem with it... then how about you take your farking nose out of their business and put in a goddamn book for a few minutes and try to knock some of the steaming pile stupid off your farking noggin.

You also someone is wrong when they turn to insults. On a side note, you complety missed my point. If you can't come up with a better argument that "you are intolerant," then it doesnt sound liek you have a very good argument



No hate like liberal hate...

Liberals have tolerance of other people's views as long as it agrees with theirs or you are labeled a racist, sexist, or whatever ___ist.
 
2011-12-22 09:01:12 AM
Balloon boy with longer hair.
 
2011-12-22 09:01:18 AM

Silvara: Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .

I don't think puberty is required for sexual identity. There are plenty of transgender people out there who will tell you they identified as such long before puberty. Sometimes it very specifically comes down to genes.


This is the common but mistaken conflation of gender identity and gender-defined sexual orientation. The two are popularly conflated in the public mind because the gender orientation of affectional attraction, especially sexual attraction, is so deeply ingrained in both the social reality and the popular consciousness, and so often defined in strictly adult terms, that many people find it very difficult to grasp the notion that a person's own gender identity is separate from the gender orientation of their external attractions.

The actual mechanism of gender dysphoria remains poorly understood, but the reality and force of it has been recognised and (not by everyone, to be sure) accepted for much longer than modern medicine has been around. From what I've read so far, and admittedly not that recently (I recommend Dr. Anne Fausto-Sterling's works on this subject, for general readers), current theory revolves around structural and functional differences between 'male' and 'female' typified brains, now much more visible using fMRI and similar techniques. That is, we are the person who lives in our braincase, no matter what the rest of our body suggests. Because the complex biomechanics of neonatal gender differentiation can result in an essentially female brain being placed in an essentially male habitus, or vice versa, it's probably much more common than suspected. Our bodies being much simpler than our brains, but our brains being much more malleable, it's quite likely that borderline gender dysmorphics (who may actually be much more numerous than 'textbook' transgenders) just learn to live with it, one way or another, and may never even figure it out for themselves. But complete dysmorphics don't, and can't.

So yes, it seems very likely that a large number of transgenders already know who they are at a very young age, long before they have any notions or understandings about romance and sex, never mind any considerations of what sort of other people they might be attracted to.

Nevertheless, it's most common for people -- by which I mean adults (if not necessarily grown-ups) -- to conflate these two, in fact considering them part and parcel of the same sphere, and for that inseparable -- in complete defiance of the clinical reality. We say a man is 'effeminate' or a woman is 'masculine' if they don't conform to tightly defined social gender roles, and that's why people consider transgenders 'gay'. Never mind that the very concept of transgenderism begs us to question the rationale behind the inherently derivative concepts of 'gay' and 'straight'. It's perhaps that threat, more than anything else, that gets many people's panties in a twist.

The most common reaction is for people to express dismay and confusion, but what they're really expressing is the cognitive dissonance generated by the confrontation of reality with the preconceptions -- the received wisdom, if you will -- that our culture has handed all of us. The fact that those preconceptions happen to be factually incorrect, and incompatible with the deeper and more interesting complexities of reality, is more than a lot of people want to deal with. So to the extent that they can avoid dealing with it by the traditional -- and often socially approved -- methods of denial, denigration, and so on, they often will take the short, low road, rather than the more challenging high road.

All of which is why only a very few lucky kids can have nice things like acceptance and respect.
 
2011-12-22 09:04:08 AM

SevenizGud: I want to have my stain of bacteria admitted to the girl scouts.

[phil.cdc.gov image 640x428]

Sure, it's a different species, but you would only know that if you observed it.

Whatsamatter? Where's your tolerance?


GNID. Hmm, did you pick gonnococcus or were you born that way?
 
2011-12-22 09:04:39 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope:

This just in: Christians are a bunch of demented f*ckwit busybodies who tend to cut off their noses to spite other people's faces. Ric Romero reports.


Yep, all of us, every single one of us.
Just like Muslims all blow up markets and white people are all rich plantation owners.
Every single one of them.
 
2011-12-22 09:05:11 AM

WhyteRaven74: Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

In a word, yes.

Also, consider that the girl in question was admitted to a troop in Colorado, and the troops that broke up are in Louisiana. That's right, people not even in the same state are so butthurt than instead of be mature adults they have to throw hissy fits.


This is why I like to make it clear that I was born in New Orleans, and not merely "in Louisiana".
 
2011-12-22 09:05:42 AM

osafer: No. A 7 year old has no clue on what sex they are other then mine is an outtie and her's is an innie. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy . I can almost guarantee that this child's mother is a complete loon...


This. My son likes dolls, but he also likes trucks... he plays with his sisters barbies as often as she plays with his hot wheels. But he hasn't picked or been assigned or reassigned. I don't know how I would address if he constantly wanted to only wear skirts and such - but whatever my choice, it wouldn't be "well, then you're transgender now!". I think that at this age, much like playing "war" and such helps boys "work things out", wearing female clothes might just be how a child works things out. It's not about "I am unhappy as [previous gender]" or "I must be [new gender]". They're just ... figuring it out.

If gender identity is unrelated to sexual identity, then why did the 'good' article linked on the first page have a transgender boy who was physically altered to be a girl? The issues described in that article are how he interacts with material items.

Female clothes look odd on males because they're not tailored for their form. They're different. Men and women are different. When a little boy wants to wear girl clothes, it's not wrong because of who he or she is, it just looks unappealing because the clothes simply aren't intended for that purpose.

Isn't it a spectrum anyway? I've always thought that. If you lay out how you look ('male/female') on one axis and how you act on another - but don't call it 'male' and 'female' is there any purpose to the entire transgender movement at that point? I've always viewed guys who behave more 'like girls' as still guys. But it sounds like the behavior axis is being used as a means to justify an alteration of the appearance axis.
 
2011-12-22 09:05:47 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Silvara: Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .

I don't think puberty is required for sexual identity. There are plenty of transgender people out there who will tell you they identified as such long before puberty. Sometimes it very specifically comes down to genes.

This is the common but mistaken conflation of gender identity and gender-defined sexual orientation. The two are popularly conflated in the public mind because the gender orientation of affectional attraction, especially sexual attraction, is so deeply ingrained in both the social reality and the popular consciousness, and so often defined in strictly adult terms, that many people find it very difficult to grasp the notion that a person's own gender identity is separate from the gender orientation of their external attractions.

The actual mechanism of gender dysphoria remains poorly understood, but the reality and force of it has been recognised and (not by everyone, to be sure) accepted for much longer than modern medicine has been around. From what I've read so far, and admittedly not that recently (I recommend Dr. Anne Fausto-Sterling's works on this subject, for general readers), current theory revolves around structural and functional differences between 'male' and 'female' typified brains, now much more visible using fMRI and similar techniques. That is, we are the person who lives in our braincase, no matter what the rest of our body suggests. Because the complex biomechanics of neonatal gender differentiation can result in an essentially female brain being placed in an essentially male habitus, or vice versa, it's probably much more common than suspected. Our bodies being much ...


Please keep your comments to a paragraph or less, and with more snark, this is fark Christ's sake...
 
2011-12-22 09:05:57 AM

Silvara: Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .

I don't think puberty is required for sexual identity. There are plenty of transgender people out there who will tell you they identified as such long before puberty. Sometimes it very specifically comes down to genes.


I just wanted to add there seems to be a neurological basis for this "feeling" too, like (to use computer lingo) the wrong hardware drivers were loaded onto the fetal OS while in the womb. I don't "get" TG people but they aren't necessarily snowflake attention whores etc. It's a little bit deeper than mere "feelings".
 
2011-12-22 09:06:26 AM

lilplatinum: Carth:
If a person can be genetically born to only eat cake than yes. It is like telling your gay son he still has to date females.

Except

1) The extent of genetic to social influence in Genetic Identity Disorder is still largely up to date

and more importantly

2) In this case we are assuming that because a 7 year old wants to be a girl they automatically qualify on the DSM-IV as having it.


I agree. I think the parents should do what is least likely to result in harm to the child. In this case that would be letting him live as a girl if she wants and letting her go back to living as a boy if she wishes.

Forcing a her to live as a boy if she doesn't want to could set up a life long problem with gender identity. Letting her live as a girl if it is only a phase will be an embarrassing thing she did at 7.

Would it be difficult to transition back to living as a boy at 13? probably but switching to a new school after a summer break would solve almost all the problems.

Hopefully the kid is already in therapy because she'll definitely need it in the years to come.
 
2011-12-22 09:06:58 AM
If a little boy acts like a little girl, that's just fine. If a little boy acts like a little boy that a suspension, some counseling and a prescription for Ritalin.
 
2011-12-22 09:07:14 AM
How can it be "genetic" if he has an identical twin that doesn't have this issue.

Does a 7 yr old really understand what "being a girl" is? I don't think that wanting long hair, playing with dolls and wearing dresses should equate to my son wants a vagina and to become a girl.

I think that society has given parents a diagnoses that they make happen in their kids sometimes. How much of the parents " Acceptance" maybe caused the child to say HEY I GET MORE ATTENTION doing this. And then it was what got accustomed to.

I didnt know girl from boy at that age and I dont think he does either.
 
2011-12-22 09:08:57 AM

I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: Stop getting hung up on one word out of a long statement there buddy. And by your so carefully executed definition you'd say that me spitting on you for not believing what I believe isn't persecution? Sweet! Come on over and let SpitFest 99' begin!


You let me know when they actually get spit on, and you might have a point.

Don't get pissy because you don't understand the words you're using.
 
2011-12-22 09:08:57 AM
www.sadanduseless.com
Wow.
 
2011-12-22 09:09:14 AM

StrangeQ: Same question I posed to platinum: was this kid one of those?


How the hell should I know? I prefer to let this family and this child deal with their own situation as they see fit. And while I do not doubt that there are a great number of things that a 7-year-old does not know, I feel like one's self is something you figure out relatively quickly.
Might she change her mind down the road? Might she regret presenting as a girl through her youth? Perhaps. It has happened before and it will happen again. But it's none of my damn business, and you'll notice that very few if any of those advocating a strict binary of genders have any evidence to support their belief that "This is just mommy wanting a daughter and insisting upon her son."
 
2011-12-22 09:10:39 AM

GAT_00: Gig103: This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .

Yes, the GIRL SCOUTS are the party in the right here.


GIRL SCOUTS, not TRANSGENDER SCOUTS.

Stupid libs trying to impose yet another tyranny of the minority.
 
2011-12-22 09:12:15 AM
Funny how upset people want to get about "intolerance" instead of the horrific travesty of what is being done to the child.
 
2011-12-22 09:12:37 AM

give me doughnuts: So if parents ever come into the workplace trying to fund-raise for their kids in American Heritage Scouts (Boys and Girls), please be so kind as to spit in their eye.


I've always found it important to never stoop to the low tactics one would despise in anyone else. As Ann Magnuson said, when you start thinking like that, you start thinking like them. Or as Gandhi said, BE the change you want to see. Be better -- not for the sake of being better (which itself should be despicable, as any sincere gratuitous self-aggrandisement should be), but to set the example. Just tell them you already gave -- to the Girl Scouts. But do be sure and tell them why.

This can be difficult, but liberating. When confronted by this season's ubiquitous storefront bellringers, I'll tell them (only if asked, mind you) that I already gave to United Way. If pressed, I'll go on to explain that United Way does not discriminate, and leave it at that. Let them research it on their own if they want.
 
2011-12-22 09:12:57 AM

sgleason818: Jobber8742: Kudos to the Girl Scout troop for being accepting. There isn't a real reason to exclude this child other than other people's butthurt. But, this child will never be fully accepted as a girl. This kid can certainly not play on a girl's sports team, nor should she be allowed to. There are physical differences between boys and girls, and unfortunately you can't just let this child play on the girl's team. It is unfair, but to let the child play, it would be unfair to the other girls.

I am completely ignorant of this whole transgender thing. At seven, how do you tell the difference between a boy who just likes pretty things and a boy who believes he should be a girl? I don't think the Boobieser in this thread was being hateful in what he said, he just lacked tact in wondering this same thing.

How do you tell the difference? You don't. The child tells you. In fact the child keeps telling everyone she or he can, and hopefully someone listens.


Okay, they listen, let him act like a girl for a week, then he changes his mind and wants to be a boy again. That kid will be ruined for life if he stays in the same school. He shouldn't be, but kids are very very very cruel. My point is, seven year olds don't know what they want. They'll go around telling everyone they want this and that, then next week, they don't want it anymore. A decision as serious as changing your gender identity is something I would have a very hard time allowing a seven year old to make. Maybe that makes me a bad person, I don't know? I suppose I would seek advice of several professionals on the subject before I let the child make any crazy life changing decisions.
 
2011-12-22 09:13:18 AM

Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .


Gender identity is not the same as sexual identity. You knew you were male before you hit puberty, right? Probably even earlier than 7.
 
2011-12-22 09:14:00 AM
Sounds like the three who quit shouldn't be allowed to poison the minds of children anyway. Evangelical Christian conservatism is becoming indistinguishable from child abuse.
 
2011-12-22 09:16:18 AM

give me doughnuts: Correction: Just girls. The BSA is already intolerant enough.


It's not quite that simple. The *national* council is the one that went to court for the right to bar gays, and won. And legally, they were correct: as a private organisation, they have that right, just like all the private country clubs that still legally exclude Blacks and Jews, so they're in fine company, to be sure. But that was only a clarification of their right to do so. Local councils make their own rules about it, and many of them don't discriminate. I was living in Rhode Island at the time, and the Narragansett Council publicly affirmed their acceptance of gay Scounts. They were the first, but by no means the only ones.
 
2011-12-22 09:16:29 AM

lilplatinum: Carth: So if a 7 year old does say "I want to live as a girl" should the parents say no and force them to live as a boy?

If a 7 year old says "I want to eat cake for 3 meals a day" should the parents say no and force him to eat his dinner?


Both scenarios require a conversation with the child about what the consequences of their desired courses of action. Just saying yes or no isn't the answer. The child needs to know why you belive they shouldn't do what they wish. The cake question, the parents should stand firm. The gender question, if after explaining to the child that they will be questioned and unfairly ridiculed by people, that they may have to give up the chance to join gender specific organizations, that their decision will have ramification every moment of their life...if they still want to, the parents should support their child in that choice. I would push for a lets try it out at home and revisit in a few years.

/and don't let the kid listen to any Bill Cosby for a while
 
2011-12-22 09:16:29 AM
Meh, can't we scrap Girl and Boy scouts and just have scouts?

Keeping the genders socially segregated just don't seem healthy (and I speak as someone who was segregated in an all-male school).
 
2011-12-22 09:17:37 AM
Only 3 leaders ragequit? I'd imagine the boy scouts would implode if anyone tried something like this.
 
2011-12-22 09:17:39 AM

lilplatinum: Carth: So if a 7 year old does say "I want to live as a girl" should the parents say no and force them to live as a boy?

If a 7 year old says "I want to eat cake for 3 meals a day" should the parents say no and force him to eat his dinner?


Yeah but in other news sometimes life is a shiat sandwich with no options that aren't bollocks. You pick. Don't imagine yourself as a kid saying that to your parents. Imagine you have a kid who just breaks the fark down crying, begging you to help them out because they hate how they are. You're sitting there, your first thought is "I thought you were upset because I said you couldn't have cake for lunch. fark. Why couldn't you just be upset about not having cake for lunch? I have no farking clue how to deal with you being disgusted with your body. I never had that problem."

I'll tell you this, saying "Man up, Nancy Drew, and put your big boy balls on. You see, you're just 7. So clearly, you're retarded." is going to end up with you being confused 10 years later when you come home and he's blown his head off with a rifle because he couldn't even rely on his own family for help in a constantly difficult aspect of life.

OR you could unnecessarily by encouraging a whim, and after a few years of having life voluntarily STILL suck, they say "You know what, this is bullshiat. I don't even want to be a girl." Except then they get to STOP. Boy, it's a good thing everyone on Fark is still tied down to whatever social roles or stupid shiat they did when they were growing up, too.
 
2011-12-22 09:18:01 AM
I don't think you've experienced real pettiness until you've had a child in Girl Scouts. I dealt with them and the Boy Scouts and while the BSA's values regarding GLBT and Atheists is plain backwards, they at least didn't have the petty backbiting and martyrdom I saw in the Girl Scouts.
 
2011-12-22 09:20:03 AM

RminusQ: StrangeQ: Same question I posed to platinum: was this kid one of those?

How the hell should I know? I prefer to let this family and this child deal with their own situation as they see fit. And while I do not doubt that there are a great number of things that a 7-year-old does not know, I feel like one's self is something you figure out relatively quickly.
Might she change her mind down the road? Might she regret presenting as a girl through her youth? Perhaps. It has happened before and it will happen again. But it's none of my damn business, and you'll notice that very few if any of those advocating a strict binary of genders have any evidence to support their belief that "This is just mommy wanting a daughter and insisting upon her son."


You do realize that this attention whore of a mother, has decided her little snow flake is transgender at the tender age of 7 is forcing this issue into the limelight by trying to join the GIRL scouts. The mother wanted to make a stink, pure and simple. She could have joined any number of other groups like the scouts that are gender neutral.
 
2011-12-22 09:20:17 AM

Jobber8742: Okay, they listen, let him act like a girl for a week, then he changes his mind and wants to be a boy again. That kid will be ruined for life if he stays in the same school. He shouldn't be, but kids are very very very cruel. My point is, seven year olds don't know what they want. They'll go around telling everyone they want this and that, then next week, they don't want it anymore. A decision as serious as changing your gender identity is something I would have a very hard time allowing a seven year old to make. Maybe that makes me a bad person, I don't know? I suppose I would seek advice of several professionals on the subject before I let the child make any crazy life changing decisions.


Farking this. Thank you.

Everyone is so convinced that their little snowflake is so perfect and special that they forget something very important - kids are stupid. They don't know what the hell they're doing. That's what being a kid is. Your job as a parent is to protect them until they're old enough to make their own decisions. Your job is not to indulge their every whim. And your job is certainly not to create a publicity stunt and hold them up as a public spectacle.
 
2011-12-22 09:20:42 AM
So, lets see if i have this right. /dnrtfa Some boy wants to join the Girl Scouts?

Um No, you have the wrong equipment.

Some people should never breed. In this case it was his parents.
 
2011-12-22 09:21:25 AM

Billified: lilplatinum: Carth: So if a 7 year old does say "I want to live as a girl" should the parents say no and force them to live as a boy?

If a 7 year old says "I want to eat cake for 3 meals a day" should the parents say no and force him to eat his dinner?

Both scenarios require a conversation with the child about what the consequences of their desired courses of action. Just saying yes or no isn't the answer. The child needs to know why you belive they shouldn't do what they wish. The cake question, the parents should stand firm. The gender question, if after explaining to the child that they will be questioned and unfairly ridiculed by people, that they may have to give up the chance to join gender specific organizations, that their decision will have ramification every moment of their life...if they still want to, the parents should support their child in that choice. I would push for a lets try it out at home and revisit in a few years.

/and don't let the kid listen to any Bill Cosby for a while


Kids can't comprehend the outcomes of decisions. This is why we treat kids who commit crimes differently than we do adults. I kid will say, "I don't care if I get sick and fat, I want to eat cake for every meal". Then two weeks down the road, they will regret the decision. You can sit a kid down and explain to them how hard it would be to change gender association, but they most likely will not comprehend what in the world you are talking about.
 
2011-12-22 09:22:13 AM

SevenizGud: I have a 7 year old son who thinks he is an armed and legged person in a quadruple amputee's body. And I agree with him.

Should we have his arms and legs cut off, or have him live a lie, doing untold psychological trauma, and scarring him for life?


That's called Body integrity identity disorder, and people who are affected by it can improve their mental/ emotional states by amputating the offending body part. Medical science does not approve of course, so people will self amputate.

See also (new window).
 
2011-12-22 09:22:45 AM

Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .


Speaking of stupid, look at your post.
 
2011-12-22 09:23:29 AM
I don't think this kid has any idea what he wants
pretty much like any 7 year old.

But parents registering their protest by yanking their kids out
IN ANOTHER FRIGGIN" STATE
is just...moronic
 
2011-12-22 09:23:40 AM

evilmrsock: Yeah but in other news sometimes life is a shiat sandwich with no options that aren't bollocks. You pick. Don't imagine yourself as a kid saying that to your parents. Imagine you have a kid who just breaks the fark down crying, begging you to help them out because they hate how they are. You're sitting there, your first thought is "I thought you were upset because I said you couldn't have cake for lunch. fark. Why couldn't you just be upset about not having cake for lunch? I have no farking clue how to deal with you being disgusted with your body. I never had that problem."


And you fix that by pretending they are somthing else?
 
2011-12-22 09:24:23 AM

give me doughnuts: So if parents ever come into the workplace trying to fund-raise for their kids in American Heritage Scouts (Boys and Girls), please be so kind as to spit in their eye.


You want to do that to the parents, fine, but don't hassle the kids.

I was at a local grocery with my son and a couple other Cub Scouts while they were selling popcorn for their Pack fund raiser. They asked this one dude if he wanted to buy any and he started into this whole angry spiel about how he won't give any money to Scouts because they don't support gay rights. He was getting so wound up he was actually starting to scare the boys.

I finally had to cut him off and tell him "Dude, they're nine years old. They didn't make the policy."
 
2011-12-22 09:24:39 AM

imontheinternet: RminusQ: iNo, there are plenty of other douchebags who got here before you.

A boy who likes to play with dolls and act feminine isn't necessarily a girl. He might just be gay.


The problem that I see is people's social norms don't extend to having as wide a range of behaviors in males and females as to encompass the actual population. Being feminine on the masculine/feminine scale doesn't make a boy gay or a woman straight, any more than being masculine makes a woman gay and a man straight. Young kids don't even have a gender identity, and anyone who thinks his 4 year old is gay or transgendered because he likes to walk around in his mother's heels and play with dolls is projecting their own fears.

I really hope what happened is this boy liked to play with dolls and dress up in dresses, very common if you observe day care, and his parents decided his was a girl because of course BOYS can't play with dolls.
 
2011-12-22 09:24:40 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: I was living in Rhode Island at the time, and the Narragansett Council publicly affirmed their acceptance of gay Scounts. They were the first, but by no means the only ones.


True... They're an excellent organization. I've done some pro bono work for them and the leadership is made up of some intelligent, rational individuals, who realize the good they do in the community is more important than outdated religious dogma. All kids, regardless of whether they fit the narrow gender definitions some folks like to cling to, can benefit from groups like this.
 
2011-12-22 09:25:38 AM
Can someone explain what is different about girls and boys besides the obvious physical attributes and the generalized stereotypical roles?

It's got to be something more than just wanting to play with dolls vs. wanting to play with....whatever it is boys play with at that age.
 
2011-12-22 09:26:02 AM
Everyone here who believes a 7 year old has the mental capacity to decide they should be a different gender would sign off on that 7 year old having gender reassignment surgery, right? They absolutely "know" by age 7, so there should be no problem with taking away his boy parts.
 
2011-12-22 09:26:56 AM

Gothnet: Meh, can't we scrap Girl and Boy scouts and just have scouts?

Keeping the genders socially segregated just don't seem healthy (and I speak as someone who was segregated in an all-male school).


Lots of politics behind that, dating all the way back to Juliette Lowe.

Suffice to say, it will never happen.
 
2011-12-22 09:26:58 AM

Baryogenesis: HoneyDog: You answered your own question. It's not about liking certain toys or playing sports. It's just your preference.

But from what others have said above, my preference of activities makes me male. I get along and relate better to males. No chick flicks or romance novels for me.

But you still identify as female and that's the point. It's only a matter of what you prefer to identify as, male or female. Someone can identify as a girl and still not like stereotypically girl things as you have shown.


I don't really "get" gender identity. I understand that other people will stereotype you and expect certain behaviours, but that's just other people labelling you: what I don't understand is the intense personal identification that trans people seem to have. Obviously it's hard to imagine being something you're not, but I honestly don't think I'd care if I was the other gender ... I'd still be me.

Say it was racial identity: I could understand not wanting to be race-X, because of racism, or perhaps feeling marginalised because you don't like the standard things that race-Y likes. But that's a problem with the culture, not with you or your race. Society should be more accepting, you shouldn't feel like you're wrong. Flip it back into gender identity: I don't understand how someone can feel like they're in the wrong gender: you are who you are, society should accept that ... why is it the individual who is "wrong", not society?

But instead of telling society to go fly a kite, trans people seem to end up saying "I'm not doing it for society, I'm doing it for me" (obviously I'm generalising here). That's the bit I don't get ... how/why is it for you? Why is the shape of your pink-bits so important that you'd risk major surgery to change? I just don't think gender is that big of a deal once you strip the culturally imposed aspects away.
 
2011-12-22 09:28:58 AM
Maybe he should start his own Transgendered Scouts!
 
2011-12-22 09:29:42 AM

agoodz: Everyone here who believes a 7 year old has the mental capacity to decide they should be a different gender would sign off on that 7 year old having gender reassignment surgery, right? They absolutely "know" by age 7, so there should be no problem with taking away his boy parts.


You realize people don't get to just decide when you have gender reassignment surgery right? You need a professional to sign off on it, take hormones for a certain length of time and live as the other gender for at least one year. Since you can't take the medication until puberty I'm pretty sure that isn't a real problem to worry about.
 
2011-12-22 09:29:53 AM
"7 - year old transgender" - that has to be the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Every kid at 7 says "I wonder what it would be like to be a girl/boy. . . "

Sounds more like bad parenting.
 
2011-12-22 09:30:15 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Silvara: Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .

I don't think puberty is required for sexual identity. There are plenty of transgender people out there who will tell you they identified as such long before puberty. Sometimes it very specifically comes down to genes.

This is the common but mistaken conflation of gender identity and gender-defined sexual orientation. The two are popularly conflated in the public mind because the gender orientation of affectional attraction, especially sexual attraction, is so deeply ingrained in both the social reality and the popular consciousness, and so often defined in strictly adult terms, that many people find it very difficult to grasp the notion that a person's own gender identity is separate from the gender orientation of their external attractions.

The actual mechanism of gender dysphoria remains poorly understood, but the reality and force of it has been recognised and (not by everyone, to be sure) accepted for much longer than modern medicine has been around. From what I've read so far, and admittedly not that recently (I recommend Dr. Anne Fausto-Sterling's works on this subject, for general readers), current theory revolves around structural and functional differences between 'male' and 'female' typified brains, now much more visible using fMRI and similar techniques. That is, we are the person who lives in our braincase, no matter what the rest of our body suggests. Because the complex biomechanics of neonatal gender differentiation can result in an essentially female brain being placed in an essentially male habitus, or vice versa, it's probably much more common than suspected. Our bodies being much ...


Thanks for reminding me as to why I have your name favourit'd!! :-)
 
2011-12-22 09:32:01 AM

PunGent: duffblue: I had hope for fark before I realized it's just another hugbox for people who think trannies are something other than mentally ill.

You seem to be unfamiliar with prenatal brain development...I recommend suing whoever taught you high school biology.

Or sue your Intelligent Designer...he's probably got deeper pockets.


Funny thing, though, every time I turn around, someone god is begging for money. Of course, I'm never sure which specific avatar of the divine it is. Who was it who said, "the God I know isn't short on cash"?
 
2011-12-22 09:32:48 AM

Carth: agoodz: Everyone here who believes a 7 year old has the mental capacity to decide they should be a different gender would sign off on that 7 year old having gender reassignment surgery, right? They absolutely "know" by age 7, so there should be no problem with taking away his boy parts.

You realize people don't get to just decide when you have gender reassignment surgery right? You need a professional to sign off on it, take hormones for a certain length of time and live as the other gender for at least one year. Since you can't take the medication until puberty I'm pretty sure that isn't a real problem to worry about.


You know you have made his argument, right?
 
2011-12-22 09:34:39 AM
Isn't this what the Quasi Pan-sexual Genderless Scouts are for? Somewhere between this kids parents and the other kids' parents lies the truth. What a farking hassle for everybody involved.

/snowflakes
 
2011-12-22 09:34:40 AM
It is the Girl Scouts, not to be confused with the Boy Scouts, Transgender Scouts or Hermaphrodite Scouts.

Sometimes clubs want to be exclusive, and that's OK. If you have a problem with that, make up your own damn club and have at it. Women that insist on be allowed to join men's clubs, men that insist on being allowed to be Hooter's waitresses, or men that protest Ladies Nights, it's all ridiculous. Men and women, boys and girls are different, and it is OK if they want some personal time apart from people with different parts.

Sure it sucks to be the kid not welcome in such famously intolerant groups such as the GSA & BSA. I question why anyone would want to join either group, particularly someone with identity issues. It's not fair to the uptights, who have a right to be uptight, just as we have a right to roundly mock them for it.

The real headscratcher is how people a 1000 miles away got all butthurt by someone else's decision to NOT be so uptight.
 
2011-12-22 09:35:26 AM

Carth: agoodz: Everyone here who believes a 7 year old has the mental capacity to decide they should be a different gender would sign off on that 7 year old having gender reassignment surgery, right? They absolutely "know" by age 7, so there should be no problem with taking away his boy parts.

You realize people don't get to just decide when you have gender reassignment surgery right? You need a professional to sign off on it, take hormones for a certain length of time and live as the other gender for at least one year. Since you can't take the medication until puberty I'm pretty sure that isn't a real problem to worry about.


So age 8 then? Where do you draw the line?
 
2011-12-22 09:36:15 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: A Colorado-based Girl Scouts troop's decision to admit a 7-year-old transgender child this fall has prompted three leaders to resign and dissolve their troops.

As The Christian Post is reporting, all three of the troop leaders were affiliated with the Northlake Christian School in Covington, Louisiana.

Soooo, a Colorado troup admits the kid, and that makes a bunch of stick-up-their-ass Louisiana Christians think it's their farking business and take the entire experience of scouting away from the girls in their troup. Got it.


This just in: Christians are a bunch of demented f*ckwit busybodies who tend to cut off their noses to spite other people's faces. Ric Romero reports.


You do see the irony in your post, right?
 
2011-12-22 09:36:28 AM
I didn't read the whole damn thread, but I didn't have to, to pick up the trans-hate. Just sticking my cissexual head in here to cast a vote for the "not a raging bigot" camp.

Also:

Happy Hours: Can someone explain what is different about girls and boys besides the obvious physical attributes and the generalized stereotypical roles?

It's got to be something more than just wanting to play with dolls vs. wanting to play with....whatever it is boys play with at that age.


Male and female brains differ significantly in terms of size, density, thickness of the corpus callosum (the bit linking your hemispheres), and the distribution of work in response to a given problem. Men's brains are bigger but lower-density with a thinner corpus callosum and a more centralized approach to problem-solving, whereas women have smaller, denser brains that probably need a thicker corpus callosum to accommodate the fact we scatter problem-solving across pretty much every part of the cortex.

It's not inconceivable, given that we all carry the genetic instructions for both masculine and feminine development--otherwise every zygote would get 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a boy from Dad and 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a girl from Mom--that there could be some kind of screw-up in prenatal development that would cause the wrong set of genes to be expressed and the wrong gender of brain to develop.

Also, I happen to believe that there are precisely two people who have a right to care about any particular person's gender identity: the person in question and their mate, and a child is too young for the latter. If this kid wants to identify as a girl despite the bullying that will arise (does anyone think the kids will behave better than certain Farkers?), then I say more power to her.
 
2011-12-22 09:36:50 AM

meatsack_01: Maybe he should start his own Transgendered Scouts!


... with blackjack and hookers!
 
2011-12-22 09:37:16 AM

drjekel_mrhyde: Someone wanted a girl and ended up with a boy. Maybe she had a still born daughter before having him and still farked up from it.
/It would be funny if the boy turn out straight and end hating his mother for this bullshiat.
//That kid don't have the ghey voice. My cousins had theirs around 5 and are ghey to this day.


One day the village's dumbest crack whore slept with the village's craziest hobo and drjekel_mrhyde was the result.

Look I can pull stories out of my ass with no basis in fact that conveniently reinforce my preconceptions too.
 
2011-12-22 09:37:27 AM

markfara: I'm not against living-and-letting-live. I've known a couple of transfolk ("Tranny" is considered derogatory these days.) and had no particular problem with them. People are who they are. The people in question pay taxes, vote, etc. and are entitled to conduct their lives without being f*cked with.


Unless, of course, they happen to be into that.

Everybody has the right to self-identify up to the very edge of where their self-identification tangibly interacts with the rights of another.

That said, I DO think that at some point everyday reality has to kick in. If I employ someone who thinks he's really a cat, am I morally obliged to provide him with a litter box?

Is a litter box necessary for the execution of his job? Then yes (unless you want an inefficient company). Does it improve his job performance? Then it's more a self-interest thing, but yeah, you should provide it. Litterboxes are far, far cheaper than those status toys ("executive" chairs, desks with custom finish) that managers/presidents keep around to remind everybody else of their place.

Otherwise, he can provide his own. Either way, he's scooping.
 
2011-12-22 09:37:46 AM

I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: Holy farking shiat....is this whole thread really about what defines a male and a female? For all of you that are saying " ooh...it's a mental state that defines gender...ooh". No it doesn't. Guys have a big fat hairy dick hanging between their legs, girls don't (That's the actual Webster's definition btw).

This state of appeasement that we are trying to build is just ridiculous. He is physically a boy....he should go to BOY scouts. Maybe this kid's mom should shy away from clubs that are based on gender if his isn't so easily defined. If he's gay then he should still go to boy scouts and yes, they should be tolerant. The girl scouts wrote their rule book long before kids wanted to cut their dicks off before middle school.

I feel for him/her/whatever because he has made a decision that is going to make EVERY choice difficult for the rest of his life. And yeah, before you can say anything emo kids....being transgender at age 7 is 100% a choice. Being gay is not be a choice, but going for gusto sure the fark is. Just because your mind is confused and you don't know how to deal with it AT AGE FARKING 7, doesn't mean you have to jump off the proverbial deep end just to be "true to yourself" in the SECOND GRADE. This thread makes me hate society. And you, if you're reading this....I hate you too. lol


Everyone, here's the problem, right here: A huge proportion of your fellow citizens honestly believe that everything that can ever be known or understood was already imbued to them by the time they reached the Internet, there is nothing more to learn, knowledge and fact are the same thing and immutable, and whatever they believe is simply The Way Things Are, period. This, as the saying goes, is why we can't have nice things.
 
2011-12-22 09:38:41 AM

osafer: Carth: agoodz: Everyone here who believes a 7 year old has the mental capacity to decide they should be a different gender would sign off on that 7 year old having gender reassignment surgery, right? They absolutely "know" by age 7, so there should be no problem with taking away his boy parts.

You realize people don't get to just decide when you have gender reassignment surgery right? You need a professional to sign off on it, take hormones for a certain length of time and live as the other gender for at least one year. Since you can't take the medication until puberty I'm pretty sure that isn't a real problem to worry about.

You know you have made his argument, right?


Oh I miss understood. I didn't realize he was arguing that children and adults should be treated the same way when it comes to gender identity disorders.
 
2011-12-22 09:39:53 AM
i1080.photobucket.com

Pretty much this. Stop calling this boy a girl. Transgender boy. Girlie boy. Lady boy. But damn it, he has a penis!!!
 
2011-12-22 09:40:54 AM
Okey so mom is crying tolerance... What about tolerance for the ones that oppose this?

So tolerance is a one way street now....
 
2011-12-22 09:41:09 AM

Helen_Arigby: I didn't read the whole damn thread, but I didn't have to, to pick up the trans-hate. Just sticking my cissexual head in here to cast a vote for the "not a raging bigot" camp.

Also:

Happy Hours: Can someone explain what is different about girls and boys besides the obvious physical attributes and the generalized stereotypical roles?

It's got to be something more than just wanting to play with dolls vs. wanting to play with....whatever it is boys play with at that age.

Male and female brains differ significantly in terms of size, density, thickness of the corpus callosum (the bit linking your hemispheres), and the distribution of work in response to a given problem. Men's brains are bigger but lower-density with a thinner corpus callosum and a more centralized approach to problem-solving, whereas women have smaller, denser brains that probably need a thicker corpus callosum to accommodate the fact we scatter problem-solving across pretty much every part of the cortex.

It's not inconceivable, given that we all carry the genetic instructions for both masculine and feminine development--otherwise every zygote would get 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a boy from Dad and 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a girl from Mom--that there could be some kind of screw-up in prenatal development that would cause the wrong set of genes to be expressed and the wrong gender of brain to develop.

Also, I happen to believe that there are precisely two people who have a right to care about any particular person's gender identity: the person in question and their mate, and a child is too young for the latter. If this kid wants to identify as a girl despite the bullying that will arise (does anyone think the kids will behave better than certain Farkers?), then I say more power to her.


How about he felt he was black and wanted to wear black face to make himself feel right. Would that be okay?
 
2011-12-22 09:42:44 AM

osafer:
How about he felt he was black and wanted to wear black face to make himself feel right. Would that be okay?


So reverse michael jackson?
 
2011-12-22 09:43:03 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Silvara: Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .

I don't think puberty is required for sexual identity. There are plenty of transgender people out there who will tell you they identified as such long before puberty. Sometimes it very specifically comes down to genes.

This is the common but mistaken conflation of gender identity and gender-defined sexual orientation. The two are popularly conflated in the public mind because the gender orientation of affectional attraction, especially sexual attraction, is so deeply ingrained in both the social reality and the popular consciousness, and so often defined in strictly adult terms, that many people find it very difficult to grasp the notion that a person's own gender identity is separate from the gender orientation of their external attractions.

The actual mechanism of gender dysphoria remains poorly understood, but the reality and force of it has been recognised and (not by everyone, to be sure) accepted for much longer than modern medicine has been around. From what I've read so far, and admittedly not that recently (I recommend Dr. Anne Fausto-Sterling's works on this subject, for general readers), current theory revolves around structural and functional differences between 'male' and 'female' typified brains, now much more visible using fMRI and similar techniques. That is, we are the person who lives in our braincase, no matter what the rest of our body suggests. Because the complex biomechanics of neonatal gender differentiation can result in an essentially female brain being placed in an essentially male habitus, or vice versa, it's probably much more common than suspected. Our bodies being much ...


For me, the layman understanding about that came from reading about ambiguous genitalia in a women's studies class in college. When you realize just how detached the formation of genitals is from genetics and brain development, it's easy to see how brain development can be detached from genetics and genitals.
 
2011-12-22 09:43:20 AM

attention span of a retarded fruit fly: Okey so mom is crying tolerance... What about tolerance for the ones that oppose this?

So tolerance is a one way street now....


The Troop in question has no problem with it... Read the farking article.



Please explain how the Colorado Girls Scouts is being intolerant of the bigoted views of some christians in Louisiana by allowing this kid into their organization?
 
2011-12-22 09:43:38 AM

attention span of a retarded fruit fly: Okey so mom is crying tolerance... What about tolerance for the ones that oppose this?


[dry] Oh, don't worry, you can still be every bit as much an ignorant bigot as you want to be. We don't discriminate. [/dry]
 
2011-12-22 09:45:25 AM

evilmrsock: I'll tell you this, saying "Man up, Nancy Drew, and put your big boy balls on. You see, you're just 7. So clearly, you're retarded." is going to end up with you being confused 10 years later when you come home and he's blown his head off with a rifle because he couldn't even rely on his own family for help in a constantly difficult aspect of life.


Sweet, then they can take that money they had saved up for college and spend it on a vacation!
 
2011-12-22 09:45:59 AM
It's a farking boy. Hell no it can't join my daughter's girl scout troop, and you more "tolerant" farknuggets wouldn't allow it either when it really happened.
 
2011-12-22 09:48:44 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Everyone, here's the problem, right here: A huge proportion of your fellow citizens honestly believe that everything that can ever be known or understood was already imbued to them by the time they reached the Internet, there is nothing more to learn, knowledge and fact are the same thing and immutable, and whatever they believe is simply The Way Things Are, period. This, as the saying goes, is why we can't have nice things.


thevoiceforschoolchoice.files.wordpress.com
 
2011-12-22 09:49:21 AM

Descartes: It's a farking boy. Hell no it can't join my daughter's girl scout troop, and you more "tolerant" farknuggets wouldn't allow it either when it really happened.


Well, except for the fact that Girl Scout Troop in question did, indeed, allow it...
 
2011-12-22 09:50:38 AM

Carth: osafer: Carth: agoodz: Everyone here who believes a 7 year old has the mental capacity to decide they should be a different gender would sign off on that 7 year old having gender reassignment surgery, right? They absolutely "know" by age 7, so there should be no problem with taking away his boy parts.

You realize people don't get to just decide when you have gender reassignment surgery right? You need a professional to sign off on it, take hormones for a certain length of time and live as the other gender for at least one year. Since you can't take the medication until puberty I'm pretty sure that isn't a real problem to worry about.

You know you have made his argument, right?

Oh I miss understood. I didn't realize he was arguing that children and adults should be treated the same way when it comes to gender identity disorders.


I read his point as this: that a farking 7 year old has no idea if they are transgender or not.
I read your point as: Even adults don't really know if they are transgender or not, until there is a boat load of tests and other professional involvement.
My point is :The mother is a farking loon who is forcing this poor boy to be something he or may not be. This is child abuse, pure and simple.
 
2011-12-22 09:52:24 AM
FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*
 
2011-12-22 09:54:26 AM
I just want to make sure I've got this straight.

So if a 7 year old boy wants to join the Girl Scouts, it's okay as long as he says he's a girl?
 
2011-12-22 09:54:27 AM

Descartes: It's a farking boy. Hell no it can't join my daughter's girl scout troop, and you more "tolerant" farknuggets wouldn't allow it either when it really happened.


Umm..yeah I would. I have 2 daughters, and I've taught them tolerance.
 
2011-12-22 09:56:48 AM

osafer: My point is :The mother is a farking loon who is forcing this poor boy to be something he or may not be. This is child abuse, pure and simple.


Exactly. On top of that, she's playing the victim card to get into the news and holding up a 7 year old as a public symbol of transgendered rights, when it may very well just be a childhood phase. She's making herself famous by turning her kid into a spectacle.

The mother has done much more harm to this kid than some rednecks in Louisiana ever could.
 
2011-12-22 09:56:57 AM

gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*


You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...
 
2011-12-22 09:59:15 AM
250 comments, and no pedobear?

Fark, I am disappoint.
 
2011-12-22 09:59:32 AM

osafer: People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender.


You have absolutely no proof that that is the case...
 
2011-12-22 10:00:54 AM
Gender: a social construction that encompasses biological, behavioral, and mental characteristics.
Sex: a biological definition based on chromosomes.

If you want to make scouts about sex, you'll have to ban individuals with turner syndrome and other chromosomal anomalies from participation in the boy/girl scouts. If you are willing to accept that being in either organization is a matter of gender, you have to allow the lines to be less rigid.

If your worldview really doesn't allow for a person to be confused about gender, you need to educate yourself and learn more about the world. You're hobbling yourself for a modern existence, and you'll be left behind like the people who kept using floppy disks or the people who still use the N-word. Grow up, expand your mind, and you can participate in the world with the rest of us.
 
2011-12-22 10:01:21 AM

Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?


images.cheezburger.com
 
2011-12-22 10:02:07 AM
Came for a "William's got a Doll" reference...

[Glances around thread]

Yeah, I think I'll just back out of here slowly.....
 
2011-12-22 10:02:35 AM

Silvara: Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .

I don't think puberty is required for sexual identity. There are plenty of transgender people out there who will tell you they identified as such long before puberty. Sometimes it very specifically comes down to genes.


Not unless they have the test to show they kids is xxy or something similar. Otherwise it is a crack-pot parent farking with the kids mental well being.
 
2011-12-22 10:03:03 AM

Bluemookie: [i1080.photobucket.com image 480x360]

Pretty much this. Stop calling this boy a girl. Transgender boy. Girlie boy. Lady boy. But damn it, he has a penis!!!


*shakes angry fist*

/like i read threads anymore
//meh
 
2011-12-22 10:10:17 AM

keylock71: osafer: People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender.

You have absolutely no proof that that is the case...


Yeah you are right, I don't have proof. But you are being disingenuous if you don't see that a 7 year old has no means to live as a transgender without his mother's involvement. Like i said the kid may be effeminate at this age, but to force a gender role on him at this age is crazy.
 
2011-12-22 10:13:00 AM
This couild certainly complicate the response to the question "Are those cookies made with real Girl Scouts?".
 
2011-12-22 10:14:25 AM

osafer: ...but to force a gender role on him at this age is crazy.


Again, you have no proof that that is being done.

The Troop in question is allowing the kid to join and apparently have no problem with his gender, so what's the big deal?
 
2011-12-22 10:18:04 AM

keylock71: The Troop in question is allowing the kid to join and apparently have no problem with his gender, so what's the big deal?


The big deal is some twunts in Louisiana got offended and disbanded their troop. Who gives a shiat? Let them go ahead and take something good away from their kids because a child in another state was allowed to join the girl scouts.
 
2011-12-22 10:21:44 AM

CapnBlues: If your worldview really doesn't allow for a person to be confused about gender, you need to educate yourself and learn more about the world. You're hobbling yourself for a modern existence, and you'll be left behind like the people who kept using floppy disks or the people who still use the N-word.


Actually for the vast majority of people their view on Gender Identity is patently irrelevant for their day to day functioning in the modern world.
 
2011-12-22 10:22:22 AM

osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...


Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?
 
2011-12-22 10:23:16 AM

Dokushin: So if a 7 year old boy wants to join the Girl Scouts, it's okay as long as he says he's a girl?


Not all delusions are created equal. If your particular disorder is sexual in nature, there's plenty of groups who will argue against reality on your behalf. If your delusions are about something else, you're on your own. Now if you excuse me, I have to get back to training so I can defend my MMA title next week, and I have a meeting with the joint chiefs in 2 hours.
 
2011-12-22 10:24:08 AM

Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...

Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?


Right back at you champ...
 
2011-12-22 10:25:00 AM

lilplatinum: CapnBlues: If your worldview really doesn't allow for a person to be confused about gender, you need to educate yourself and learn more about the world. You're hobbling yourself for a modern existence, and you'll be left behind like the people who kept using floppy disks or the people who still use the N-word.

Actually for the vast majority of people their view on Gender Identity is patently irrelevant for their day to day functioning in the modern world.


Well, I guess neither of us has data to back up our claims. The best support i could give is the increasing prevalence of transgendered individuals, but I have no citation for that and you don't really care about that anyway, I'm guessing.
 
2011-12-22 10:25:37 AM

A Terrible Human: keylock71: The Troop in question is allowing the kid to join and apparently have no problem with his gender, so what's the big deal?

The big deal is some twunts in Louisiana got offended and disbanded their troop. Who gives a shiat? Let them go ahead and take something good away from their kids because a child in another state was allowed to join the girl scouts.


Apparently they joined a more fundamentalist girls group... No word on if they're required to wear full burkas and not be seen in public without a male escort.
 
2011-12-22 10:27:00 AM
Sorry, but there is no such thing as a 7 year old transgender. They just don't exist. The mom says, "I believe he was born in the wrong body."

So this is trasngenderism that has been forced on a poor 7 year old boy by a woman who really, really wishes she had a girl instead. He did not decide to become a girl on his own. His coont of a mother arbitrarily decided that for him. fark this biatch.
 
2011-12-22 10:27:16 AM

Carth: Would it be difficult to transition back to living as a boy at 13? probably but switching to a new school after a summer break would solve almost all the problems.


Considering things on the internet never go away, it would be fairly difficult once your asshat parents have paraded your gender identity at 7 years old, regardless of it was actually a gender identity disorder or just a phase you went through. At this point either little Bobby is going to grow up trying to be a girl or grow up with a very public record of having done it as a kid - either of which will result in him/her being brutalized by his/her peers as it grows up.
 
2011-12-22 10:27:30 AM
I don't understand why some peop;le who claim to be Christians have a problem with this. John 3:16 tells us that God so loved the world that he sent his ONLY son for the salvation of humanity, but at the same time we're all God's children, so really in God's eyes we're all a bunch of girls anyway.

/why yes, i did steal that joke from Daniel Tosh
//still relevant though
 
2011-12-22 10:28:21 AM

anarchisthippy: Sorry, but there is no such thing as a 7 year old transgender. They just don't exist. The mom says, "I believe he was born in the wrong body."

So this is trasngenderism that has been forced on a poor 7 year old boy by a woman who really, really wishes she had a girl instead. He did not decide to become a girl on his own. His coont of a mother arbitrarily decided that for him. fark this biatch.


you know how i know you don't know anything about psychology?
 
2011-12-22 10:28:37 AM

keylock71: Apparently they joined a more fundamentalist girls group... No word on if they're required to wear full burkas and not be seen in public without a male escort.


Yaaay even more religious indoctrination! I'm betting their mothers hope they end up just as hateful and ignorant as they are.
 
2011-12-22 10:30:02 AM

osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...

Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?

Right back at you champ...


Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.
 
2011-12-22 10:31:22 AM

CapnBlues: anarchisthippy: Sorry, but there is no such thing as a 7 year old transgender. They just don't exist. The mom says, "I believe he was born in the wrong body."

So this is trasngenderism that has been forced on a poor 7 year old boy by a woman who really, really wishes she had a girl instead. He did not decide to become a girl on his own. His coont of a mother arbitrarily decided that for him. fark this biatch.

you know how i know you don't know anything about psychology?


you know how i know you don't know anything about children or crazy loons?
 
2011-12-22 10:32:17 AM

anarchisthippy: Sorry, but there is no such thing as a 7 year old transgender. They just don't exist.


Again, the many, many, many, many, many doctors writing the DSM disagree with you. And I'll trust their word over an "anarchist hippy" regarding medical conditions.
 
2011-12-22 10:32:40 AM

osafer: CapnBlues: anarchisthippy: Sorry, but there is no such thing as a 7 year old transgender. They just don't exist. The mom says, "I believe he was born in the wrong body."

So this is trasngenderism that has been forced on a poor 7 year old boy by a woman who really, really wishes she had a girl instead. He did not decide to become a girl on his own. His coont of a mother arbitrarily decided that for him. fark this biatch.

you know how i know you don't know anything about psychology?

you know how i know you don't know anything about children or crazy loons?


:) i see what you're doing. have fun.
 
2011-12-22 10:32:47 AM

CapnBlues: Well, I guess neither of us has data to back up our claims. The best support i could give is the increasing prevalence of transgendered individuals, but I have no citation for that and you don't really care about that anyway, I'm guessing.


I can't recall once in my 30 years of life living on three continents being hobbled by my skeptical leaning views on gender identities, and even with increasing prevalence of transgendered folk it is still a very small minority of the population. It may become more accepted to view a more fluid view of gender identity, but I find it a fairly bold claim to think that not accepting this view is significantly going to 'hobble' someone in day to day life.

Hell, the only time I can even think of considering transexuals was in Thailand and wondering the gender of what I was looking at....

... Or going to college in Austin with Leslie wandering around...

Then again, Christians are a large portion of the population and I can't stand them and my lack of acceptance of their bizzare world views hasn't particularly hobbled me either..
 
2011-12-22 10:33:06 AM

Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...

Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?

Right back at you champ...

Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.


So you would have no problem with this kid at the tender age of 7 to have surgery to remove his penis?
 
2011-12-22 10:34:26 AM

lilplatinum: CapnBlues: Well, I guess neither of us has data to back up our claims. The best support i could give is the increasing prevalence of transgendered individuals, but I have no citation for that and you don't really care about that anyway, I'm guessing.

I can't recall once in my 30 years of life living on three continents being hobbled by my skeptical leaning views on gender identities, and even with increasing prevalence of transgendered folk it is still a very small minority of the population. It may become more accepted to view a more fluid view of gender identity, but I find it a fairly bold claim to think that not accepting this view is significantly going to 'hobble' someone in day to day life.

Hell, the only time I can even think of considering transexuals was in Thailand and wondering the gender of what I was looking at....

... Or going to college in Austin with Leslie wandering around...

Then again, Christians are a large portion of the population and I can't stand them and my lack of acceptance of their bizzare world views hasn't particularly hobbled me either..


The plural of anecdote is data. Your personal experience is likely not representative of everyone's experience.
 
2011-12-22 10:34:51 AM

keylock71: I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: I know what you're saying, but it's the fundamentalists in LA's choice how they want to align and represent themselves. Why should people persecute them because they didn't want to be associated with a group that no longer represents them in the way they wanted it to? People are saying how we should be tolerant, but where's the tolerance for the LA's groups choice to disband?

What the holy hell are you talking about?

The clowns in Louisiana are free to do what they want. And they did. Other folks are free to criticize them for their actions.

No one is being "persecuted", Capt. Hyperbole.


There are reasons why Louisiana is the way it is.

gregory311: Actually, most human beings are a bunch of demented farkwit busybodies. But if you feel that you need to single out one group of people, I guess that's your trip. Have fun!


I've got to agree. Religious conservatives are especially good at it, and the ones in this country just happen to be predominantly Christian, but that's only coincidental.

Jobber8742: I am completely ignorant of this whole transgender thing. At seven, how do you tell the difference between a boy who just likes pretty things and a boy who believes he should be a girl? I don't think the Boobieser in this thread was being hateful in what he said, he just lacked tact in wondering this same thing.


I agree. (And sorry about getting filterpw0ned: happens to all of us at some point.) The kid might be transgender, or might not be, and the part of me raised by scientists wants to say that an expert should investigate. That said, I'm also sensitive to the fact that this is still a murky scientific area, and a lot of practical clinicians have let their arrogance lead them over the years, to various people's detriment. (I'm looking at you, Dr. Money.) That said, I strongly object to the popular conflation of clinical gender identity, socially constructed gender roles, and gender-based affectional orientation. (E.g., boys who play with dolls think they're girls and are probably gay, derp derp.) I also don't share the popular belief that it's some kind irreversible disaster to let a seven-year-old at least experiment with living as a girl, to see if it suits them. My gut instinct is that the kid is a girl, in both the GI and social sense, but I won't put money on that. My real point is that it's just not that big a farking deal.

SevenizGud: Why not trees and rocks?


Don't get your hopes up; they're probably not going to let you in.

StrangeQ: You're right. XY or XX, take your pick (actually don't: you don't have a choice in the matter)


It's not that simple either, though: Chromosomes are a blueprint, not the building. There are several variants, and a complex series of biochemical mechanisms involved in sexual differentiation. There's lots of room for things to go in various directions, and it's probably a lot more common than most people would imagine. Gender dysmorphism is one of many different possible outcomes of the vagaries of these complex processes.

osafer: Please keep your comments to a paragraph or less, and with more snark, this is fark Christ's sake...


I know, I need to work on that. Thanks for the reminder.

meatsack_01: Some people should never breed. In this case it was his my parents.


FTFE

agoodz: Everyone here who believes a 7 year old has the mental capacity to decide they should be a different gender would sign off on that 7 year old having gender reassignment surgery, right? They absolutely "know" by age 7, so there should be no problem with taking away his boy parts.


I'm no expert myself, but I typically defer to people I believe are. (For example, I accept Dr. Hawking's assertions about black holes, without feeling the need to check his math. Even though I realise he could be wrong -- and in fact has been -- I'll never approach his expertise.) I don't know what the specific guidelines are in every case, but it's my understanding that in a number of other modern countries, such as the Netherlands, it's most common to undergo SRS at a much younger age than it typically is in the U.S. Startling as that may be, I suspect the reason we don't hear about this is that it's probably appropriate to do so.

LiquidSky: But instead of telling society to go fly a kite, trans people seem to end up saying "I'm not doing it for society, I'm doing it for me" (obviously I'm generalising here). That's the bit I don't get ... how/why is it for you? Why is the shape of your pink-bits so important that you'd risk major surgery to change? I just don't think gender is that big of a deal once you strip the culturally imposed aspects away.


I think there's a slow movement in the direction you're suggesting. Just as there's a spectrum of gender identity, I think we'll gradually realise a spectrum of social responce to it, including more and more TG persons who decide not to go the surgery route. Kate Bornstein, acclaimed gender activist, famously said that while she has no regrets about having undergone SRS herself, she resents that she felt she was forced to choose at all. The only problem with what you're proposing -- which again, I agree with -- is the huge number of people who honestly believe that genitalia defines gender. (It actually defines sex, not gender, but good luck explaining that.)

uttertosh: Thanks for reminding me as to why I have your name favourit'd!! :-)


^_^

MooseUpNorth: Either way, he's scooping.


When I ran restaurants, I preferred to hire freaks with a few social scars on them. I found them much easier to work with than people who think they already have it all figured out.
 
2011-12-22 10:35:10 AM

osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...

Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?

Right back at you champ...

Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.

So you would have no problem with this kid at the tender age of 7 to have surgery to remove his penis?


Gender reassignment surgery? Don't know. I'm not a doctor. I'd have no problem asking a doctor whether it's something that should be done before or after puberty, due to the release of hormones from the testes.
But then, I'm not an arrogant asshole who wants to force my opinion on people I don't know.

... and you know, that's in the DSM, too. You should take a look... you apparently have a lot of problems.
 
2011-12-22 10:37:33 AM

CapnBlues: The plural of anecdote is data. Your personal experience is likely not representative of everyone's experience.


Seeing as you were the one that made the unsubstantiated assertion that not embracing your world view would somehow hobble a person in modern society, I think the first onus of providing data would be on you. It is a bit disingenuous for you to criticize my anecdotal evidence as not being sufficient when you provide not even that.
 
2011-12-22 10:38:17 AM
Okay, let's be clear: If you are biatching and whining and carrying on about how bad the Colorado Girl Scout troop's decision is, you are so much of a screaming pussy that the GSA wouldn't accept you because they want something more from their membership than a giant vagina. The "The penis must be held as the only sacred part of personhood" schtick was old back in the 1700s, got retarded in the 1800s, was roundly proved false in the 1900s, and if you're still fighting that fight in the 2000s, shoot yourself in the head (both of them) for the genetic good of the species, because real men don't have time to deal with you perpetual 3rd-graders and this "Boyz only, herr-derr-derpy-derp" crap. Gods above, every one of your mothers ought to be charged with treason and/or terrorism against the US for not aborting you.
 
2011-12-22 10:38:30 AM

A Terrible Human: keylock71: Apparently they joined a more fundamentalist girls group... No word on if they're required to wear full burkas and not be seen in public without a male escort.

Yaaay even more religious indoctrination! I'm betting their mothers hope they end up just as hateful and ignorant as they are.


Eh... It could have the reverse effect, too.

I attended a born again christian school for elementary and middle school and belonged to a number of religious groups as a kid and I'm a godless heathen these days specifically because of that school experience.
 
2011-12-22 10:40:29 AM

Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...

Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?

Right back at you champ...

Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.

So you would have no problem with this kid at the tender age of 7 to have surgery to remove his penis?

Gender reassignment surgery? Don't know. I'm not a doctor. I'd have no problem asking a doctor whether it's something that should be done before or after puberty, due to the release of hormones from the testes.
But then, I'm not an arrogant asshole who wants to force my opinion on people I don't know.

... and you know, that's in the DSM, too. You should take a look... you apparently have a lot of problems.




You know how I know when I won an argument?
 
2011-12-22 10:41:22 AM
It's not inconceivable, given that we all carry the genetic instructions for both masculine and feminine development--otherwise every zygote would get 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a boy from Dad and 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a girl from Mom.

WTF? Did you somehow skip primary school genetics? Human males are XY. Females are XX. Does that ring any bells?

The presence of the Y chromosome creates the difference between males and females (actually a small part of it: the SRY gene). The default is female. The presence of the SRY gene = appears male. Since females do not have a Y chromosome, they do NOT carry the instructions for how to make penis/testes. (Technically, there is a rare disorder where there are XX genotypes who do contain the SRY gene ... accidently copied across from a Y chromosome during chromosomal translocation. These XX + SRY's look male and are infertile. It's quite rare: 1 in 20,000 people.)

So your mum gave you your X (if you're male or female) and your dad gave you either your X (if you're female) or your Y (if you're male). Thus your gender is determined by which chromosome you got from your dad.

/your basic point that things can go wrong in development is quite true, but the rest was flat-out wrong.
 
2011-12-22 10:41:24 AM
Find out the locations those troops were in and claim the cookie market!
 
2011-12-22 10:41:46 AM

anarchisthippy: Sorry, but there is no such thing as a 7 year old transgender. They just don't exist.


Please cite your bona fides. There are actual lettered experts with relevant bona fides who disagree with you.

For at least the third time this thread: Believing you know something doesn't make it so.
 
2011-12-22 10:43:31 AM

Billified: The child needs to know why you belive they shouldn't do what they wish. The cake question, the parents should stand firm. The gender question, if after explaining to the child that they will be questioned and unfairly ridiculed by people, that they may have to give up the chance to join gender specific organizations, that their decision will have ramification every moment of their life...if they still want to, the parents should support their child in that choice


It's a goddamn seven year old. He's gonna cry, disregard all you've explained, and insist that he wants what he wants. Do you honestly think a seven year old boy has the capacity to think through something like this, even if explained by parents?
 
2011-12-22 10:43:52 AM

osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...

Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?

Right back at you champ...

Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.

So you would have no problem with this kid at the tender age of 7 to have surgery to remove his penis?

Gender reassignment surgery? Don't know. I'm not a doctor. I'd have no problem asking a doctor whether it's something that should be done before or after puberty, due to the release of hormones from the testes.
But then, I'm not an arrogant asshole who wants to force my opinion on people I don't know.

... and you know, that's in the DSM, too. You should take a look... you apparently have a lot of problems.

You know how I know when I won an argument?


When you start whining about name-calling (that you've been doing)* and dodging all of the legitimate arguments? I'm not sure "won" is the proper term there.

*Plus, I wasn't calling you an arrogant asshole. I was saying that anyone who presumes to "have a problem" with a private medical decision between a doctor and patient they've never met is an arrogant asshole. Are you volunteering for that label?
 
2011-12-22 10:45:49 AM
The mother seems like a huge attention whore been covered yet?
 
2011-12-22 10:47:20 AM

LiquidSky: Human males are XY. Females are XX.


When I was in school, I was taught that there are nine planets, that Jupiter has twelve moons, and that ulcers are caused by bad living. There are now nine planets, I've stopped following the number of moons Jupiter has after the first couple dozen or so, and ulcers are now known to be caused by bacteria. Just for starters, of the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of things I was taught in school that were either found to be mistaken later, or were already fallacious.

What you were taught in school was current science about a decade before you got there (and that's assuming your district is one of the better ones). It's now understood that the chain from chromosomes to gender is not as direct as what you were taught, nor is gender itself as fixed and discrete.

Knowledge evolves over time. I suggest doing the same.
 
2011-12-22 10:49:25 AM

LiquidSky: It's not inconceivable, given that we all carry the genetic instructions for both masculine and feminine development--otherwise every zygote would get 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a boy from Dad and 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a girl from Mom.

WTF? Did you somehow skip primary school genetics? Human males are XY. Females are XX. Does that ring any bells?


You know how, early on in primary school, they taught you that you couldn't subtract a big number from a small number? And then later on, they teach that you actually can, and they're called negative numbers. Or how they teach you that you can't take a square root of a negative number, and then later on they teach you about imaginary and complex numbers?

Same thing. Early on, you were taught that human males are XY and females are XX. Apparently, you never got the more advanced stuff which says, no, there can be XXY, XXX, XYY, XXYY, as well as XY females and XX males. In fact, due to mutations, genes on other chromosomes can activate sexual development, too. Isn't science amazing?
 
2011-12-22 10:49:32 AM

halfof33: The mother group of Christians that pitched a fit and left the troop seems like a huge attention whore been covered yet?


FTFY
 
2011-12-22 10:51:41 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: When I ran restaurants, I preferred to hire freaks with a few social scars on them. I found them much easier to work with than people who think they already have it all figured out.


Wouldn't want anyone butting heads with you, huh?
 
2011-12-22 10:52:36 AM
Jesus christ. My son wanted to be a fireman when he was seven. Id let him play in a hat and a cardboard box, but it would be insane to light the doghouse on fire and let him go at with the garden hose.
 
2011-12-22 10:53:24 AM

LiquidSky: WTF? Did you somehow skip primary school genetics? Human males are XY. Females are XX. Does that ring any bells?


That's primary school genetics for a reason. Because it's incredibly oversimplified to the point of being inaccurate. You can start getting a REAL education on genetics by reading the "intersex" Wikipedia article and the associated links and get info like this.

"The biology of gender is far more complicated than XX or XY chromosomes and may rely more on the brain's very early development than we ever imagined," researcher Eric Vilain, M.D., reported today at the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) Annual Meeting in Washington, D.C.
 
2011-12-22 10:53:51 AM

Theaetetus: LiquidSky: It's not inconceivable, given that we all carry the genetic instructions for both masculine and feminine development--otherwise every zygote would get 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a boy from Dad and 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a girl from Mom.

WTF? Did you somehow skip primary school genetics? Human males are XY. Females are XX. Does that ring any bells?

You know how, early on in primary school, they taught you that you couldn't subtract a big number from a small number? And then later on, they teach that you actually can, and they're called negative numbers. Or how they teach you that you can't take a square root of a negative number, and then later on they teach you about imaginary and complex numbers?

Same thing. Early on, you were taught that human males are XY and females are XX. Apparently, you never got the more advanced stuff which says, no, there can be XXY, XXX, XYY, XXYY, as well as XY females and XX males. In fact, due to mutations, genes on other chromosomes can activate sexual development, too. Isn't science amazing?


Remember the kid that was in your algebra 1 class who was still a senior while you were still a freshman? Some of those kids are in this thread.
 
2011-12-22 10:54:04 AM

Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...

Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?

Right back at you champ...

Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.

So you would have no problem with this kid at the tender age of 7 to have surgery to remove his penis?

Gender reassignment surgery? Don't know. I'm not a doctor. I'd have no problem asking a doctor whether it's something that should be done before or after puberty, due to the release of hormones from the testes.
But then, I'm not an arrogant asshole who wants to force my opinion on people I don't know.

... and you know, that's in the DSM, too. You should take a look... you apparently have a lot of problems.

You know how I know when I won an argument?

When you start whining about name-calling (that you've been doing)* and dodging all of the legitimate arguments? I'm not sure "won" is the proper term there.

*Plus, I wasn't calling you an arrogant asshole. I was saying that anyone who presumes to "have a problem" with a private medical decision between a doctor and ...


That has been my argument the whole way through this thread, The loon of mother of this poor 7 year old has decided to make a private issue with her 7 year old son public by trying to join the GIRL scouts. If you don't see anything wrong with labeling this boy a transgender at this early stage of his life as attention whoring, I don't know what is....
 
2011-12-22 10:54:20 AM

Theaetetus: *Plus, I wasn't calling you an arrogant asshole. I was saying that anyone who presumes to "have a problem" with a private medical decision between a doctor and patient they've never met is an arrogant asshole


Perhaps they have a problem with their attention whore mother parading the kid around in the media. Especially as (according to wiki referencing the DSM, so obviously more legwork for people who actually care more than just wasting time at work) " the majority of children diagnosed with GID cease to desire to be the other sex by puberty".
 
2011-12-22 10:55:20 AM

buck1138: halfof33: The mother group of Christians that pitched a fit and left the troop seems like a huge attention whore been covered yet?

FTFY


I'm sorry, did they go to the press? Did I miss that part?
 
2011-12-22 10:57:40 AM

halfof33: buck1138: halfof33: The mother group of Christians that pitched a fit and left the troop seems like a huge attention whore been covered yet?

FTFY

I'm sorry, did they go to the press? Did I miss that part?


FTFA
"Susan Bryant-Snure, one of the leaders who resigned, told The Baptist Press..."

The mom went to the GSA, not the press.
 
2011-12-22 10:57:42 AM

buck1138: Remember the kid that was in your algebra 1 class who was still a senior while you were still a freshman?


Kinda like you, except with English 1, huh?
 
2011-12-22 10:58:34 AM

mciann: CanisNoir: Does he/she have a penis? If so, he/she should not really be camping with the other girls. That said, the three baitches who quit are being just that, stupid baitches cutting off their nose to spite their face and hurting their own children in the process.

I don't know if you realize how bitterly cruel your first statement here is.


Dunno about cruel, but it don't fit. He isn't a girl, so saying "other" girls is silly.

Try to imagine you've got something attached to you that you have hated from the very moment you understood what it was. Try to imagine years of that one little shred of flesh dictating every circumstance of your life. Imagine years of knowing you will never fit; that you can never be the person you are when you close your eyes; that you must live a life of deceit and misery all of your days because you happen to have this disgusting, vile, embarrassing thing between your legs, even when every other aspect of your being screams to be something else.

Now that's some mighty fine drama ya got there. And some holy-farkin'-shiat peener issues.
But *do* let's roll with this trauma, shall we? If I remember correctly, sometimes Girl Scouts go swimming - may even be some sort of merit badge for this. So do we a) skip this badge for the little boy, or b) risk traumatizing a whole troop of little girls with that "vile, embarrassing thing" that a swimsuit ain't gonna much hide? That's just one possible scenario in terms of camping that comes to mind.

Not knowing the tyke or parents-thereof in-question it's damn near impossible to make any sort or judgement, save to say that like most, I think what goes on in Colorado isn't any of Louisiana's business.

Then read your post again.

You overreacted as badly as the Louisiana parents. There's challenges there that some parents and children aren't prepared to handle and your own (self..?) loathing seems to make you just as intolerant and insensitive towards children and parents that don't have "special" needs. I've dealt with a similar situation (though not an exclusive "girls" organization I had to keep thought to reactions on *both* sides of the issue) and I can tell you I'm glad you weren't part of it. I made arrangements with parents so that I didn't have to deal with issues in a girls locker room (..which, being male-and-not-horrified-of-my-wang I can't effectively deal with) and found the parents (here in Pennsylvania) quite ok with my arrangements. What I didn't want was a bunch of girls to come screaming out of a locker room leaving some poor (and by current definition, socially awkward) child back in the locker room traumatized by the reaction.

So, your high horse? Get off it. Some parents out there don't even know that asthma isn't contagious. And *most* children aren't psychologically equipped to deal with gender issues even if their parents are, so have a care. This is a little *boy* with gender issues and even at the current level of societal tolerance for such things there are still going to be problems. CanisNoir was correct and dealing with the fact of the situation and not freaking out at the peener.
 
2011-12-22 11:00:15 AM

halfof33: buck1138: Remember the kid that was in your algebra 1 class who was still a senior while you were still a freshman?

Kinda like you, except with English 1, huh?


So you feel you've earned your Grammar Nazi Bonafides? Well, good for you.
 
2011-12-22 11:00:43 AM
Hey, as long as the parents didn't make a life long decision for this child like mutilating..er..circumcising him as an infant, who cares?
 
2011-12-22 11:00:56 AM

sexy-fetus: Jesus christ. My son wanted to be a fireman when he was seven. Id let him play in a hat and a cardboard box, but it would be insane to light the doghouse on fire and let him go at with the garden hose.


I like pancakes.

Sorry, I just wanted to contribute a bigger non-sequitur than yours.
 
2011-12-22 11:02:02 AM

buck1138: The mom went to the GSA, not the press.


Funny how ABC heard of it in October.

But I will cheerfully concede that all of them are attention whores.

The kid, the mom, GLAAD, GSA and the scout leaders.
 
2011-12-22 11:04:12 AM
A 7 year old tranny? Unreal.

The parents are batshiat crazy.
 
2011-12-22 11:08:15 AM

osafer: *Plus, I wasn't calling you an arrogant asshole. I was saying that anyone who presumes to "have a problem" with a private medical decision between a doctor and ...

That has been my argument the whole way through this thread, The loon of mother of this poor 7 year old has decided to make a private issue with her 7 year old son public by trying to join the GIRL scouts.


Why shouldn't a 7 year old girl be able to join the GIRL scouts?

You're taking issue with the kid's gender, even though you don't know the kid, have never met her, are not a doctor, etc. I certainly wouldn't presume to be that arrogant.

If you don't see anything wrong with labeling this boy a transgender at this early stage of his life as attention whoring, I don't know what is....

The only thing I see as wrong is intruding into the life of someone you've never met to say that they're doing something "wrong" in their private medical decisions. Repeat after me: "It's not about me. It's not about me."
 
2011-12-22 11:10:10 AM

lilplatinum: Perhaps they have a problem with their attention whore mother parading the kid around in the media.


All she's done is protest when a girl scout troop refused to admit her daughter because of the contents of her pants. That's pretty reasonable. It's the other troops breaking up in protest that are the attention whores.
 
2011-12-22 11:10:29 AM
Theaetetus 2011-12-22 10:30:02 AM

osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...

Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?

Right back at you champ...

Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.




The fact that you believe the DSM and people with degrees in psychology are rock solid science somewhat hampers your arguments
 
2011-12-22 11:10:46 AM

Theaetetus: The only thing I see as wrong is intruding into the life of someone you've never met to say that they're doing something "wrong" in their private medical decisions. Repeat after me: "It's not about me. It's not about me."


How is expressing an opinion about someones 'private medical decision' which has been blasted all over the news, and thus no longer private, intruding into someones life?

If he goes and knocks on their door and starts telling the family how stupid they are, then yes, that would be intruding. Giving an opinion on a very public forum about a very public story? Not so much.
 
2011-12-22 11:11:22 AM

halfof33: buck1138: The mom went to the GSA, not the press.

Funny how ABC heard of it in October.

But I will cheerfully concede that all of them are attention whores.

The kid, the mom, GLAAD, GSA and the scout leaders.


You think that the story of a transgender child joining the GSA isn't going to get out to the press on its own? The Media flocks to anything sensational like this because it brings ratings. Especially in areas where yokels are disgusted by people that are different than them. You don't think that all 7 year olds are attention whores and that this one is somehow different because they are transgender? I'd say you need to take a close look at your own bigotry. You think an organization dedicated to the equal treatment of gays and lesbians is attention whoring? Get over yourself.
 
2011-12-22 11:12:04 AM

Theaetetus: All she's done is protest when a girl scout troop refused to admit her daughter because of the contents of her pants. That's pretty reasonable. It's the other troops breaking up in protest that are the attention whores.


And at some point you have to weigh the moral high ground of protesting a rather insignificant wrong (oh my god, my kid can't join some right wing christian group) to the practical effects on your child.
 
2011-12-22 11:12:11 AM
The only thing I see as wrong is intruding into the life of someone you've never met to say that they're doing something "wrong" in their private medical decisions. Repeat after me: "It's not about me. It's not about me."

How dare I have an opinion different than yours.... You liberals are a funny bunch, you preach tolerance of other people's views, but don't really tolerate them...
 
2011-12-22 11:14:34 AM

lilplatinum: Theaetetus: The only thing I see as wrong is intruding into the life of someone you've never met to say that they're doing something "wrong" in their private medical decisions. Repeat after me: "It's not about me. It's not about me."

How is expressing an opinion about someones 'private medical decision' which has been blasted all over the news, and thus no longer private, intruding into someones life?


Just because the news media are a bunch of assholes doesn't mean we should all start throwing stones.

If he goes and knocks on their door and starts telling the family how stupid they are, then yes, that would be intruding. Giving an opinion on a very public forum about a very public story? Not so much.

Oh, he's certainly entitled to give his opinion. He has every right to do so. He's just an asshole if he does, because it's not about him and his opinion. He's not in this family, he's not a doctor. He's just someone angrily ranting and spewing bile about people he's never met.
 
2011-12-22 11:14:39 AM

Theaetetus: The only thing I see as wrong is intruding into the life of someone you've never met to say that they're doing something "wrong" in their private medical decisions. Repeat after me: "It's not about me. It's not about me."


"I believe he was born in the wrong body," Archuleta, who also confessed to having difficulty switching from male to female pronouns when discussing her child, told ABC.

Odd that you continue to talk about "medical decisions" considering that there are none mentioned in the article. Mom Archuleta a Doctor?

Also, I notice that you don't have a problem intruding into the life of someone you've never met to say that they're doing something "wrong" in their decisions regarding volunteering their time.
 
2011-12-22 11:14:50 AM

RminusQ: StrangeQ: Same question I posed to platinum: was this kid one of those?

How the hell should I know? I prefer to let this family and this child deal with their own situation as they see fit. And while I do not doubt that there are a great number of things that a 7-year-old does not know, I feel like one's self is something you figure out relatively quickly.
Might she change her mind down the road? Might she regret presenting as a girl through her youth? Perhaps. It has happened before and it will happen again. But it's none of my damn business, and you'll notice that very few if any of those advocating a strict binary of genders have any evidence to support their belief that "This is just mommy wanting a daughter and insisting upon her son."


Yeah, but you also have no evidence supporting the contrary. The mother herself said it was how she "feels". No mention is made of how the boy feels. He is going to go along with whatever pleases his parents. That's how children are at that age.

As far as it being no one's business, that is just not true. If it is the mother forcing this on her son then it is abuse, plain and simple. Would you say that it is none of our business when a mother physically abuses her child everyday? I assume you wouldn't.
 
2011-12-22 11:15:09 AM

Theaetetus: Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.


It's relieving to hear that the decision to switch the gender identity of a 7 year old is based on hard, rigorous science. Oh, wait...
 
2011-12-22 11:15:35 AM

lilplatinum: CapnBlues: The plural of anecdote is data. Your personal experience is likely not representative of everyone's experience.

Seeing as you were the one that made the unsubstantiated assertion that not embracing your world view would somehow hobble a person in modern society, I think the first onus of providing data would be on you. It is a bit disingenuous for you to criticize my anecdotal evidence as not being sufficient when you provide not even that.


Look, if you want to be on the wrong side of history, that's your call. You can be counted amongst the likes of Gov George Wallace, or you can recognize that bigotry is on its way out and give up your prejudices. Or I guess you could waste your time arguing minor points on the internet with a complete stranger. All I was trying to get at is that the world is changing, and it's not changing in a direction that favors bigotry.

I can't shake the feeling that I'm talking to a college sophomore libertarian. Merry Christmas, buddy. Take care.
 
2011-12-22 11:17:53 AM

lilplatinum: Theaetetus: All she's done is protest when a girl scout troop refused to admit her daughter because of the contents of her pants. That's pretty reasonable. It's the other troops breaking up in protest that are the attention whores.

And at some point you have to weigh the moral high ground of protesting a rather insignificant wrong (oh my god, my kid can't join some right wing christian group) to the practical effects on your child.


"The Girl Scouts of Colorado has said publicly it supports transgender children, and it released a statement this week saying the group is "an inclusive organization."

The statement, released by the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, reads: 'If a child identifies as a girl and the child's family presents her as a girl, Girl Scouts of Colorado welcomes her as a Girl Scout."

The Girl Scouts of Colorado also said in its statement that it is "reaching out to the family of the excluded child and will be altering its training programs so that all girls are supported.""

Actually, sounds like the GSA is doing the right thing about their rogue scout leader, and the child will learn a valuable lesson about tolerance. Hooray, everyone wins!

... except the bigots, of course, but who gives a fark about them?
 
2011-12-22 11:18:00 AM
I don't get the Christian hate. If they don't agree with the direction the Girl Scouts are going in, with a social agenda that involves acknowledging males as girls entitled to membership, why shouldn't they stop attending, and paying dues. There are other ways to organize the girls for activities and achievements as a group. More power to them. More power to GSA. GSA can do what it wants; and no one has to join or remain a member. It's not a gang. There are no tatoos or memberships for life.

The girls aren't "hurt" by ditching that particular organization. It's nothing a church group can't provide, except GSA badges and uniforms and cookie quotas.
 
2011-12-22 11:18:46 AM

imontheinternet: Theaetetus: Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.

It's relieving to hear that the decision to switch the gender identity of a 7 year old is based on hard, rigorous science. Oh, wait...


Shouldn't you be dowsing somewhere?
 
2011-12-22 11:19:04 AM

buck1138: You think that the story of a transgender child joining the GSA isn't going to get out to the press on its own? The Media flocks to anything sensational like this because it brings ratings. Especially in areas where yokels are disgusted by people that are different than them. You don't think that all 7 year olds are attention whores and that this one is somehow different because they are transgender? I'd say you need to take a close look at your own bigotry. You think an organization dedicated to the equal treatment of gays and lesbians is attention whoring? Get over yourself.


So it looks like we agree then that the kid, the mom, the GSA and the scout leaders are attention whores? GLAAD gets a pass, I guess, I can live with that..
 
2011-12-22 11:20:54 AM
So I guess it's okay if we just cut off his/her little wang now then. After all, he/she was born wrong according to his/her mother, so let's get this kid the surgery he/she needs to make him/her right.

/none of the transgender heroes would have a problem with this, right?
 
2011-12-22 11:21:06 AM
i42.tinypic.com
He feels like he's white, so there's nothing wrong here. Right?
 
2011-12-22 11:21:53 AM

Theaetetus: How is expressing an opinion about someones 'private medical decision' which has been blasted all over the news, and thus no longer private, intruding into someones life?

Just because the news media are a bunch of assholes doesn't mean we should all start throwing stones.


You didn't answer the question, I didn't ask if we should start throwing stones or not, I asked how opinions on a public forum once the party has made an issue specifically not private constitutes "intruding into someone's life".

Oh, he's certainly entitled to give his opinion. He has every right to do so. He's just an asshole if he does, because it's not about him and his opinion. He's not in this family, he's not a doctor. He's just someone angrily ranting and spewing bile about people he's never met.

Many would argue that at the point you hold a press conference and whore yourself out to the public, for whatever reason - noble or not - then you give up the moral right to say that no one should be able to have an opinion about you.

And technically, your response to him is just you angrily ranting and spewing bile about a person you've never met.
 
2011-12-22 11:23:03 AM

halfof33: buck1138: You think that the story of a transgender child joining the GSA isn't going to get out to the press on its own? The Media flocks to anything sensational like this because it brings ratings. Especially in areas where yokels are disgusted by people that are different than them. You don't think that all 7 year olds are attention whores and that this one is somehow different because they are transgender? I'd say you need to take a close look at your own bigotry. You think an organization dedicated to the equal treatment of gays and lesbians is attention whoring? Get over yourself.

So it looks like we agree then that the kid, the mom, the GSA and the scout leaders are attention whores? GLAAD gets a pass, I guess, I can live with that..


How are the GSA attention whores. All they did was have an inclusive policy.
The kid is an attention whore but it's because she is a kid, not because she is transgendered.
The mom could be debated but it seems like she's just sticking up for her child which is what most parents would do.
The scout leaders I'll agree with.
 
2011-12-22 11:23:24 AM
I'm wondering if this mother was willing to act as scout leader herself. That was always the way it worked with girl scouts around here. If you didn't like the volunteers' efforts, you were free to volunteer for leader anytime. They were always short on leaders anyway.

That said, kid is put in bad position here, and the GS troop are asshats. I think mom might be too. Poor kid. Even Cher waited until Chazz was an adult to lop his penis off.
 
2011-12-22 11:23:40 AM

Theaetetus: anarchisthippy: Sorry, but there is no such thing as a 7 year old transgender. They just don't exist.

Again, the many, many, many, many, many doctors writing the DSM disagree with you. And I'll trust their word over an "anarchist hippy" regarding medical conditions.


You mean the same doctors who throw around diagnoses like autism and ADD like it's candy? Yeah, their word is really, really reliable.

Look, I know seven year old kids. I had a couple of them once. They don't know shiat. They barely recognize the differences between boys and girls at that age. They are learning, but they just haven't reached that point yet. To say that they can identify as being someone of the opposite sex is just flat out ridiculous.

Also, the mother makes it pretty clear that this is a matter of her choosing. She is the one who "feels" he was born in the wrong body. Are we at the point now that it is intolerance for us to even question a person's motivations when they are presenting their seven year old boy as a girl and claiming that it is his decision?
 
2011-12-22 11:24:22 AM

gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*


What spewing bile may look like, no where in this thread have i said one hurtful thing towards this poor little boy, nor did I personally attack anyone who disagreed with me. No hate like liberal hate, if you disagree with them you are a racists, sexist or some other derogatory term.
 
2011-12-22 11:25:17 AM

CapnBlues: Look, if you want to be on the wrong side of history, that's your call. You can be counted amongst the likes of Gov George Wallace, or you can recognize that bigotry is on its way out and give up your prejudices. Or I guess you could waste your time arguing minor points on the internet with a complete stranger. All I was trying to get at is that the world is changing, and it's not changing in a direction that favors bigotry.

I can't shake the feeling that I'm talking to a college sophomore libertarian. Merry Christmas, buddy. Take care.


Your quiant view of the world that bigotry is actually "on the way out" rather than still quite prevelant and just swept under the table more is heartwarming in the "i'm a noble college freshman sociology student" sort of way.

But despite your idealism you should substantiate your claims for good orders sake, and also maybe use a little more finesse than the heavy handed intolerant label of everyone who doesn't embrace the theory of a gender continuum to the same extent you as a bigot.
 
2011-12-22 11:26:17 AM

anarchisthippy: Theaetetus: anarchisthippy: Sorry, but there is no such thing as a 7 year old transgender. They just don't exist.

Again, the many, many, many, many, many doctors writing the DSM disagree with you. And I'll trust their word over an "anarchist hippy" regarding medical conditions.

You mean the same doctors who throw around diagnoses like autism and ADD like it's candy? Yeah, their word is really, really reliable.

Look, I know seven year old kids. I had a couple of them once. They don't know shiat. They barely recognize the differences between boys and girls at that age. They are learning, but they just haven't reached that point yet. To say that they can identify as being someone of the opposite sex is just flat out ridiculous.

Also, the mother makes it pretty clear that this is a matter of her choosing. She is the one who "feels" he was born in the wrong body. Are we at the point now that it is intolerance for us to even question a person's motivations when they are presenting their seven year old boy as a girl and claiming that it is his decision?


B.S.
Youngsters actually begin developing strong gender identities long before middle childhood. A child's awareness of being a boy or a girl starts in the first year of life. (new window)
 
2011-12-22 11:27:03 AM

Theaetetus: Shouldn't you be dowsing somewhere?


Dowsing, alchemy, etc. are just a stutter step below psychology in terms of being a hard science.

This baby boy's brain looks female. Put it a dress!

Above: Not science.
 
2011-12-22 11:27:29 AM

Theaetetus: Actually, sounds like the GSA is doing the right thing about their rogue scout leader, and the child will learn a valuable lesson about tolerance. Hooray, everyone wins!

... except the bigots, of course, but who gives a fark about them?


I'm guessing the child who, regardless of the outcome of this scenario - if she remains a she or changes her mind (as apparently is common) by puberty, will now have her name in a very public and very permanant and searchable index and will likely have abused heaped on him or her at some point.

But hey, she/he got to sell cookies door to door when they were 7, so I guess that counts for something,
 
2011-12-22 11:29:04 AM

IrishBlunder: So, your high horse? Get off it. Some parents out there don't even know that asthma isn't contagious. And *most* children aren't psychologically equipped to deal with gender issues even if their parents are, so have a care. This is a little *boy* with gender issues and even at the current level of societal tolerance for such things there are still going to be problems. CanisNoir was correct and dealing with the fact of the situation and not freaking out at the peener.


OK, let me get this straight. Because YOU PEOPLE aren't psychologically equipped to deal with the fact that binary physically indicated gender is a fantasy, we should ... what exactly? Go away? Be invisible?

And unless you're trying to argue for SRS surgery for young children, your swimming example is pretty damn stupid. There are lots of ways to manage that situation. On the scale of daily challenges TGs have to deal with, that doesn't rate.
 
2011-12-22 11:29:49 AM

buck1138: B.S.
Youngsters actually begin developing strong gender identities long before middle childhood. A child's awareness of being a boy or a girl starts in the first year of life. (new window)

Perhaps more than any other factor, the subtleties of every child's relationship with his or her father and mother-and the attitudes of the parents toward each other and toward the child-will influence his or her gender-related behaviors.


Nice article. Thanks.
 
2011-12-22 11:29:57 AM

buck1138: How are the GSA attention whores. All they did was have an inclusive policy.
The kid is an attention whore but it's because she is a kid, not because she is transgendered.
The mom could be debated but it seems like she's just sticking up for her child which is what most parents would do.
The scout leaders I'll agree with.


The unpaid volunteers are the bad guys here. Figures.

Those SOBs should be forced to serve, amirite?
 
2011-12-22 11:31:20 AM

lilplatinum: Theaetetus: How is expressing an opinion about someones 'private medical decision' which has been blasted all over the news, and thus no longer private, intruding into someones life?

Just because the news media are a bunch of assholes doesn't mean we should all start throwing stones.

You didn't answer the question, I didn't ask if we should start throwing stones or not, I asked how opinions on a public forum once the party has made an issue specifically not private constitutes "intruding into someone's life".

Oh, he's certainly entitled to give his opinion. He has every right to do so. He's just an asshole if he does, because it's not about him and his opinion. He's not in this family, he's not a doctor. He's just someone angrily ranting and spewing bile about people he's never met.

Many would argue that at the point you hold a press conference and whore yourself out to the public, for whatever reason - noble or not - then you give up the moral right to say that no one should be able to have an opinion about you.

And technically, your response to him is just you angrily ranting and spewing bile about a person you've never met.


One can "meet" in an online forum, so no.

I'm guessing the child who, regardless of the outcome of this scenario - if she remains a she or changes her mind (as apparently is common) by puberty, will now have her name in a very public and very permanant and searchable index and will likely have abused heaped on him or her at some point.

So, now you actually are admitting that people will intrude on this kid's private life. Which is it?
 
2011-12-22 11:32:08 AM

halfof33: buck1138: How are the GSA attention whores. All they did was have an inclusive policy.
The kid is an attention whore but it's because she is a kid, not because she is transgendered.
The mom could be debated but it seems like she's just sticking up for her child which is what most parents would do.
The scout leaders I'll agree with.

The unpaid volunteers are the bad guys here. Figures.

Those SOBs should be forced to serve, amirite?


Only the unpaid volunteers that chose to leave an organization over the inclusion of an individual in another troop 5 states away that they think is in essence evil. Yeah, they sound like upstanding people.

/You know who else had unpaid volunteers
 
2011-12-22 11:32:19 AM

osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

What spewing bile may look like, no where in this thread have i said one hurtful thing towards this poor little boy girl


FTFY. Plus, you've said a lot of hateful stuff about the mother. Get off your high horse.
 
2011-12-22 11:32:49 AM
Random thoughts on being a volunteer: I wonder if I'd disband my girl's soccer team because a transgender was trying to play on it. Being a man, I'd probably be fine if she/he played like a boy.
 
2011-12-22 11:32:54 AM

BillCo: This mother needs to be arrested for child abuse. She couldn't be damaging this poor boy more if she beat him daily. Children shouldn't be used as a tool to promote your own deviant ideas.


Usually when these issues surface it is evidence of abuse already having occurred, so it's too late.
 
2011-12-22 11:33:28 AM
Just think of all the great fun this kid could have on camping trips!

"I'll show you mine, if you show me what mine should look like."
"Let's play lesbian. I came with this really neat strap-on, so it'll be easy."
"Oooh! Those are really pretty panties! Can I try them on?"
"It's my brother's. He told me I could borrow it if I brought it back all wet and slippery."
 
2011-12-22 11:33:30 AM

Theaetetus: So, now you actually are admitting that people will intrude on this kid's private life. Which is it?


It is both.

Someone expressing an opinion on an online forum is not intruding on a kid's private life.

A classmate 5 years down the road who finds this story and starts abusing him/her in class - that is intruding on the kid's private life.

And even if a person expressing their opinion on an online forum WAS somehow an intrusion - both scenarios were made possible because of the mother's press conference.
 
2011-12-22 11:35:39 AM

imontheinternet: buck1138: B.S.
Youngsters actually begin developing strong gender identities long before middle childhood. A child's awareness of being a boy or a girl starts in the first year of life. (new window)

Perhaps more than any other factor, the subtleties of every child's relationship with his or her father and mother-and the attitudes of the parents toward each other and toward the child-will influence his or her gender-related behaviors.

Nice article. Thanks.


No problem. The sad think is it took me like 2 seconds to Google that enlightening piece of medical literature but there are still people on here that will just spout out their "gut feeling" on how children really work based on this one time they saw a kid at the grocery store instead of actually doing research on the subject.
 
2011-12-22 11:36:56 AM

lilplatinum: StrangeQ: You're right. XY or XX, take your pick (actually don't: you don't have a choice in the matter)

What about XXY or various other trisomys?


I just checked my zipper. Apparently I'm a YKK.
 
2011-12-22 11:37:31 AM

Theaetetus: lilplatinum: Theaetetus: How is expressing an opinion about someones 'private medical decision' which has been blasted all over the news, and thus no longer private, intruding into someones life?

Just because the news media are a bunch of assholes doesn't mean we should all start throwing stones.

You didn't answer the question, I didn't ask if we should start throwing stones or not, I asked how opinions on a public forum once the party has made an issue specifically not private constitutes "intruding into someone's life".

Oh, he's certainly entitled to give his opinion. He has every right to do so. He's just an asshole if he does, because it's not about him and his opinion. He's not in this family, he's not a doctor. He's just someone angrily ranting and spewing bile about people he's never met.

Many would argue that at the point you hold a press conference and whore yourself out to the public, for whatever reason - noble or not - then you give up the moral right to say that no one should be able to have an opinion about you.

And technically, your response to him is just you angrily ranting and spewing bile about a person you've never met.

One can "meet" in an online forum, so no.

I'm guessing the child who, regardless of the outcome of this scenario - if she remains a she or changes her mind (as apparently is common) by puberty, will now have her name in a very public and very permanant and searchable index and will likely have abused heaped on him or her at some point.

So, now you actually are admitting that people will intrude on this kid's private life. Which is it?


Not saying it right, but, Yes, this 7 year old may have repercussions later in life because his loon of a mother decided to take his private sexual development into the public forum. But she is making the choices for him, and she should do what makes her feel good, right?
 
2011-12-22 11:39:24 AM
If you have a male sexual organ, go to Boy Scouts. If you have female sexual organ, go to Girl Guide.
A bit more complicated if you have both (or none)... but other than that it should be simple.

If you don't like your gender, surgically change it. Too bad if you are too young to do it. Everyone of us live with something we don't like at some point in our life.
 
2011-12-22 11:41:02 AM

osafer: Theaetetus: lilplatinum: Theaetetus: How is expressing an opinion about someones 'private medical decision' which has been blasted all over the news, and thus no longer private, intruding into someones life?

Just because the news media are a bunch of assholes doesn't mean we should all start throwing stones.

You didn't answer the question, I didn't ask if we should start throwing stones or not, I asked how opinions on a public forum once the party has made an issue specifically not private constitutes "intruding into someone's life".

Oh, he's certainly entitled to give his opinion. He has every right to do so. He's just an asshole if he does, because it's not about him and his opinion. He's not in this family, he's not a doctor. He's just someone angrily ranting and spewing bile about people he's never met.

Many would argue that at the point you hold a press conference and whore yourself out to the public, for whatever reason - noble or not - then you give up the moral right to say that no one should be able to have an opinion about you.

And technically, your response to him is just you angrily ranting and spewing bile about a person you've never met.

One can "meet" in an online forum, so no.

I'm guessing the child who, regardless of the outcome of this scenario - if she remains a she or changes her mind (as apparently is common) by puberty, will now have her name in a very public and very permanant and searchable index and will likely have abused heaped on him or her at some point.

So, now you actually are admitting that people will intrude on this kid's private life. Which is it?

Not saying it right, but, Yes, this 7 year old may have repercussions later in life because his loon of a mother decided to take his private sexual development into the public forum. But she is making the choices for him, and she should do what makes her feel good, right?


God forbid you feel discomfort from the way another human being lives their life, right? Just as long as I don't have to see it. Isn't that how bigotry hides itself these days?
 
2011-12-22 11:41:42 AM

Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

What spewing bile may look like, no where in this thread have i said one hurtful thing towards this poor little boy girl

FTFY. Plus, you've said a lot of hateful stuff about the mother. Get off your high horse.


No, I called her a loon or crazy for her decision to bring her 7 year old son's personal search for his identity into the public realm.

But keep grasping at straws to justify your liberal hate...
 
2011-12-22 11:44:14 AM

buck1138: God forbid you feel discomfort from the way another human being lives their life, right? Just as long as I don't have to see it. Isn't that how bigotry hides itself these days?


Why is it when a liberal is losing an argument it always goes back to hate. I never said one hateful thing towards this 7 year old.
 
2011-12-22 11:45:24 AM

osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

What spewing bile may look like, no where in this thread have i said one hurtful thing towards this poor little boy girl

FTFY. Plus, you've said a lot of hateful stuff about the mother. Get off your high horse.

No, I called her a loon or crazy for her decision to bring her 7 year old son's personal search for his identity into the public realm.


Yep, and that's pretty hateful. Why do you have to be suck a dick?

But keep grasping at straws to justify your liberal hate...

Who says I'm a liberal? I believe in letting people live their lives in privacy, which is supposed to be a conservative ideal. You sound like some nanny-state libtard.
 
2011-12-22 11:46:41 AM

osafer: buck1138: God forbid you feel discomfort from the way another human being lives their life, right? Just as long as I don't have to see it. Isn't that how bigotry hides itself these days?

Why is it when a liberal is losing an argument it always goes back to hate. I never said one hateful thing towards this 7 year old.


You said that this person's personal identity does not belong in the public realm. You basically said go be transgender somewhere else. That's not hateful?
 
2011-12-22 11:48:05 AM

Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

What spewing bile may look like, no where in this thread have i said one hurtful thing towards this poor little boy girl

FTFY. Plus, you've said a lot of hateful stuff about the mother. Get off your high horse.

No, I called her a loon or crazy for her decision to bring her 7 year old son's personal search for his identity into the public realm.

Yep, and that's pretty hateful. Why do you have to be suck a dick?

But keep grasping at straws to justify your liberal hate...

Who says I'm a liberal? I believe in letting people live their lives in privacy, which is supposed to be a conservative ideal. You sound like some nanny-state libtard.


www.reflectionsprintingonline.com
 
2011-12-22 11:49:30 AM

Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .


Okay... THIS is what I wanted to confirm... Sorry, Bridget. I can't back you this time. But I don't blame you, I blame your stupid farkin' parent!!!
 
2011-12-22 11:51:32 AM

buck1138: Just as long as I don't have to see it. Isn't that how bigotry hides itself these days?


Being unwilling to play along with someone's fantasy world doesn't make one a bigot. You people overuse "bigot". It does not refer to anyone who won't accept your tortured version of reality. There is nothing in the article saying that the kid is something other than XY. He's a boy no matter what he feels like. If you want to say he's a feminine boy, that's fine and correct. Anything else is just a lie.
 
2011-12-22 11:52:49 AM

buck1138: osafer: buck1138: God forbid you feel discomfort from the way another human being lives their life, right? Just as long as I don't have to see it. Isn't that how bigotry hides itself these days?

Why is it when a liberal is losing an argument it always goes back to hate. I never said one hateful thing towards this 7 year old.

You said that this person's personal identity does not belong in the public realm. You basically said go be transgender somewhere else. That's not hateful?


No, what I said is a mother should not be attention whoring a 7 year old personal development in the public realm. I couldn't care less what an adult releases about their life to the world nor do I care if your are gay, straight or anything else....
 
2011-12-22 11:54:35 AM

osafer: buck1138: osafer: buck1138: God forbid you feel discomfort from the way another human being lives their life, right? Just as long as I don't have to see it. Isn't that how bigotry hides itself these days?

Why is it when a liberal is losing an argument it always goes back to hate. I never said one hateful thing towards this 7 year old.

You said that this person's personal identity does not belong in the public realm. You basically said go be transgender somewhere else. That's not hateful?

No, what I said is a mother should not be attention whoring a 7 year old personal development in the public realm. I couldn't care less what an adult releases about their life to the world nor do I care if your are gay, straight or anything else....


Shall I keep my 7 year old black child out of your white school for fear that I might be attention whoring?
 
2011-12-22 11:55:24 AM
I'll just leave this right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOY3QH_jOtE (new window)
 
2011-12-22 11:57:27 AM

buck1138: Shall I keep my 7 year old black child out of your white school for fear that I might be attention whoring?


You are so farked in the head if you're seriously equating racial segregation with girl scouts.
 
2011-12-22 11:58:25 AM

buck1138: Shall I keep my 7 year old black child out of your white school for fear that I might be attention whoring?


It might be inappropriate for you to bleach his skin first.
 
2011-12-22 12:00:08 PM

I_C_Weener: buck1138: Shall I keep my 7 year old black child out of your white school for fear that I might be attention whoring?

It might be inappropriate for you to bleach his skin first.


Agreed. I never argued that sexual assignment surgery on a 7 year old is appropriate.
 
2011-12-22 12:01:43 PM
So that's three whole troops of little girls who get to miss out on scouting just because their troop leaders felt the need to act bigoted toward a 7-year-old. Lovely.
 
2011-12-22 12:01:43 PM

Theaetetus: Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.


Likely not. Psychiatrists have MDs (usually), but psychologists do not. Both are involved in the use and modification of the DSM.
 
2011-12-22 12:02:56 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: buck1138: Shall I keep my 7 year old black child out of your white school for fear that I might be attention whoring?

You are so farked in the head if you're seriously equating racial segregation with girl scouts.


The GSA has no problem allowing the child to participate. You, on the other hand, do.
 
2011-12-22 12:05:23 PM

12349876: "The biology of gender is far more complicated than XX or XY chromosomes and may rely more on the brain's very early development than we ever imagined," researcher Eric Vilain, M.D., reported today at the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) Annual Meeting in Washington, D.C.


There are very few people less qualified to opine regarding what is and is not science than an M.D.

It's like a lumberjack opining about cabinetry.
 
2011-12-22 12:06:21 PM

buck1138: osafer: buck1138: osafer: buck1138: God forbid you feel discomfort from the way another human being lives their life, right? Just as long as I don't have to see it. Isn't that how bigotry hides itself these days?

Why is it when a liberal is losing an argument it always goes back to hate. I never said one hateful thing towards this 7 year old.

You said that this person's personal identity does not belong in the public realm. You basically said go be transgender somewhere else. That's not hateful?

No, what I said is a mother should not be attention whoring a 7 year old personal development in the public realm. I couldn't care less what an adult releases about their life to the world nor do I care if your are gay, straight or anything else....

Shall I keep my 7 year old black child out of your white school for fear that I might be attention whoring?


I never said one derogatory comment towards any group or minority, like I said if you disagree with a liberal you must be a racist, sexist or some other label. Tolerance, one day you guys have to look up the definition,

www.demotivationalposters.org
 
2011-12-22 12:06:40 PM
How the hell is a 7 year old going to know they are transgender? Someone had to have put that in his head.
 
2011-12-22 12:07:28 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: So that's three whole troops of little girls who get to miss out on scouting just because their troop leaders felt the need to act bigoted toward a 7-year-old. Lovely.


A 7 year old in a completely different state and Troop, I might add...

It's hilarious watching some folks in this thread get all worked up about a 7 year old transgendered kid being allowed into the Girls Scouts.

The Troop, in question has no problem with it.

So why do so many of folks in this thread have a problem with it and, more importantly, why do they care what a Girl Scout Troop in Colorado does?

The Puritans really did a job on our national psyche regarding sexuality and gender, I tell ya...
 
2011-12-22 12:10:36 PM
Lets all be honest, how many of the people who are against this individual joining the girl scouts are against it because it's 'icky' show of hands please.
 
2011-12-22 12:11:52 PM
In other news, I love threads like these. They allow me to isolate and ignore Fark's bigots. Buh-bye feeble minded losers.
 
2011-12-22 12:12:41 PM
I know a guy who has been gay since he was at least 5 yrs old. Even in kindergarten, he acted and felt differently than all the other boys. And it wasn't related to sexual desire.

So the know-it-alls here can fark off.
 
2011-12-22 12:13:00 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Marcintosh: Can't figure out if it's hate disguised as fear or fear disguised as hate
...
Mensa doesn't hate or fear you, you just didn't meet the criteria. You'll get over it.


There is no more arrogant and misanthropic organization in the world. My parents tried to get me active when I was a kid, and it was my first exposure to horrible people. I would sooner watch NASCAR than I would ever spend another moment at a mensa meeting.

Ultimately, I don't care what's between someone's legs unless I am or am planning to do something with what's there. Same with bedrooms. From what I can see, homophobes etc., are pervy.
 
2011-12-22 12:13:29 PM

buck1138: BraveNewCheneyWorld: buck1138: Shall I keep my 7 year old black child out of your white school for fear that I might be attention whoring?

You are so farked in the head if you're seriously equating racial segregation with girl scouts.

The GSA has no problem allowing the child to participate. You, on the other hand, do.


Probably because they don't want to deal with a few thousand people like you, who feel that rules should be broken because they feel like it. Plenty of organizations cave to vocal idiots, what's new? That still doesn't explain why you think this is anything like racial segregation.
 
2011-12-22 12:15:32 PM
gregoryn: How the hell is a 7 year old going to know they are transgender?

I knew when I was 7.
 
2011-12-22 12:16:27 PM

gregoryn: How the hell is a 7 year old going to know they are transgender? Someone had to have put that in his head.


Yeah, its called biology (new window)
 
2011-12-22 12:16:36 PM

Blues_X: I know a guy who has been gay since he was at least 5 yrs old. Even in kindergarten, he acted and felt differently than all the other boys. And it wasn't related to sexual desire.

So the know-it-alls here can fark off.


Was it you?

/I kid, I kid
//Was it?
 
2011-12-22 12:17:02 PM
BraveNewCheneyWorld: Probably because they don't want to deal with a few thousand people like you

How about because unlike you they're not narrow minded knuckledraggers?
 
2011-12-22 12:17:43 PM
osafer:
Not saying it right, but, Yes, this 7 year old may have repercussions later in life because his loon of a mother decided to take his private sexual development into the public forum. But she is making the choices for him, and she should do what makes her feel good, right?


You know how I can tell you are a dumbfark clueless twat who is just talking out of thier ass over something they know nothing about?

This has nothing to do with sexual development. Its GENDER development. Sexual development is the "whom and what" you decide you want to sleep with - either be with a member of the same sex, opposite sex -- or even both.

Gender development, is the development of how you identify with your own body and how you fill into the "roles" society perceives you should act. They are mutually exclusive.

And the mother just want her child to live the life "she" wants to live. And if that means that "he" wants to join the Girl Scouts -- then so be it -- and if people want to throw a intolerant hissy fit over it - then thats their right. (A farking troop in another state no less) But those intolerant back water farks can go to hell as far as I'm concerned, because they are not acting like Christians, thats for sure.
 
2011-12-22 12:17:46 PM

keylock71: I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: rant

Added Rachelle Trujillo, vice president for communications of the Colorado Girl Scouts: "If a child is living as a girl, that's good enough for us. We don't require any proof of gender."

The Colorado Troop in question apparently doesn't have a problem with it. Some backwoods fundamentalists in Louisiana do.


There was a controversy on Long Island when I was a kid over a player on a middle school girl's soccer team. One of the girls was sort of big and strong for her age, and a coach of another team got someone to "check" whether she was a girl or a boy. I wonder if this is what people are advocating?
 
2011-12-22 12:22:11 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: buck1138: BraveNewCheneyWorld: buck1138: Shall I keep my 7 year old black child out of your white school for fear that I might be attention whoring?

You are so farked in the head if you're seriously equating racial segregation with girl scouts.

The GSA has no problem allowing the child to participate. You, on the other hand, do.

Probably because they don't want to deal with a few thousand people like you, who feel that rules should be broken because they feel like it. Plenty of organizations cave to vocal idiots, what's new? That still doesn't explain why you think this is anything like racial segregation.


BraveNewCheneyWorld: buck1138: BraveNewCheneyWorld: buck1138: Shall I keep my 7 year old black child out of your white school for fear that I might be attention whoring?

You are so farked in the head if you're seriously equating racial segregation with girl scouts.

The GSA has no problem allowing the child to participate. You, on the other hand, do.

Probably because they don't want to deal with a few thousand people like you, who feel that rules should be broken because they feel like it. Plenty of organizations cave to vocal idiots, what's new? That still doesn't explain why you think this is anything like racial segregation.


I'm pretty sure the south "don't want to deal" with "a few thousand people" who were "vocal idiots" because they felt jim crow laws "should be broken", but they ended up having to.

/You will never see the resemblance between racial segregation and anti LGBT attitudes because you are a bigot.
 
2011-12-22 12:22:42 PM

Blues_X: he acted and felt differently than all the other boys


I don't think you should be feeling kindergarten boys at all...much less enough of them to compare.
 
2011-12-22 12:23:16 PM

gregoryn: How the hell is a 7 year old going to know they are transgender? Someone had to have put that in his head.


"Mommy says I was born in the wrong body."

"That's good, sweetie, but try it again without the mommy says part."

"I was born in the wrong body."

Very good! See, I told you attention whoring would be fun!"
 
2011-12-22 12:26:11 PM

WhyteRaven74: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Probably because they don't want to deal with a few thousand people like you

How about because unlike you they're not narrow minded knuckledraggers?


Ah yes, because I don't confuse sex with gender, I'm a knuckledragger. Call the kid feminine all you want. Hell, I'll agree with that completely, but he's not a girl, and doesn't belong in girl scouts. I'm sure that even though the leadership of their girl scouts admitted him, there's plenty of girls in the scouts who aren't happy about it. It's an organization for them after all, and he's not one of them, no matter what you tell yourself.

But do keep up the insults and factless opinions on what you think makes a boy or a girl, it only shows that your position really is ludicrous and indefensible.
 
2011-12-22 12:27:57 PM

sweetmelissa31: There was a controversy on Long Island when I was a kid over a player on a middle school girl's soccer team. One of the girls was sort of big and strong for her age, and a coach of another team got someone to "check" whether she was a girl or a boy. I wonder if this is what people are advocating?


I wouldn't doubt it...

I had a girl on my hockey team back when I was playing JV hockey in high school. Monique was her name.
She was bigger and tougher than most of the boys on the team. Nobody went easy on her during games and she held her own pretty well.

We try to squeeze kids into these narrowly defined gender roles and it's so ridiculous when you stop and think about it.
 
2011-12-22 12:28:22 PM

lilplatinum: What about XXY or various other trisomys?


It's an interesting question. I agree that, ideally, it would nice to be as accommodating as practical for those with genetic deformities such as this. At some point though, I think going beyond practicality places too much onus on everyone else. The vast majority of trysome, since you bring them up, result in down's syndrome, and other forms of mental retardation. (actually the majority result in a miscarriage or still birth, but let's assume we are talking about live births).

Mental retardation is an interesting and very close analogue to the gender identity issue, in that it causes a mental state out of synch with physical age. Specifically we can measure the mental age of someone, and in persons with the aforementioned genetic deformities, the mental age is out of synch with observable physical age.

So this made me wonder about someone who is affected in multiple ways by a chromosomal error. Suppose we have men who not only self-identify as girls, but also have a mental age of seven years old. In his mind, he is a 7 year old. Just like the boy who, in his mind, is a girl. But do we really want to start admitting 40 year old retarded men as girl scout members to go out camping with the girls? For me personally, that probably crosses over the line to where the onus of accommodating specific genetic deformities starts to place others in a very awkward or uncomfortable situation.
 
2011-12-22 12:30:39 PM

kotton: osafer:
Not saying it right, but, Yes, this 7 year old may have repercussions later in life because his loon of a mother decided to take his private sexual development into the public forum. But she is making the choices for him, and she should do what makes her feel good, right?

You know how I can tell you are a dumbfark clueless twat who is just talking out of thier ass over something they know nothing about?

This has nothing to do with sexual development. Its GENDER development. Sexual development is the "whom and what" you decide you want to sleep with - either be with a member of the same sex, opposite sex -- or even both.

Gender development, is the development of how you identify with your own body and how you fill into the "roles" society perceives you should act. They are mutually exclusive.

And the mother just want her child to live the life "she" wants to live. And if that means that "he" wants to join the Girl Scouts -- then so be it -- and if people want to throw a intolerant hissy fit over it - then thats their right. (A farking troop in another state no less) But those intolerant back water farks can go to hell as far as I'm concerned, because they are not acting like Christians, thats for sure.


files.sharenator.com

You got me I called it sexual development instead of gender development, that now makes all my points invalid.

Oh, and fark off you no class assclown...
 
2011-12-22 12:30:57 PM

Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: Theaetetus: osafer: gameshowhost: FSM do I hope some of you miserable people DIAF, slowly and painfully, today. NO ONE CHOOSES WHERE ONE ENDS UP ON THE GENDER SPECTRUM.

/YOU PEOPLE RDJ.JPG HAW HAR HURR
//*wondering how to rid the planet of some of you intolerant dumbfarks*

You realize no one is picking on the kid, right? People are screaming about his farking mother who is making a 7 year live as a transgender. I am not saying the kid can't be effeminate or even gay, but to say he is transgender at this age is crazy .

Your own tolerance level may need re-calibrated, just saying...

Where did you get your medical degree from? And what specific branch of psychiatry do you specialize in?

Right back at you champ...

Sure. While I don't have a medical degree, the proposed DSM-V includes gender dysphoria in children, and advocates social and legal transition to the preferred gender as a valid response. And those guys all have medical degrees.

So, unlike you, I'm not pulling shiat out of my ass. Which, incidentally, is classified as a disorder in the DSM.

So you would have no problem with this kid at the tender age of 7 to have surgery to remove his penis?

Gender reassignment surgery? Don't know. I'm not a doctor. I'd have no problem asking a doctor whether it's something that should be done before or after puberty, due to the release of hormones from the testes.
But then, I'm not an arrogant asshole who wants to force my opinion on people I don't know.

... and you know, that's in the DSM, too. You should take a look... you apparently have a lot of problems.

You know how I know when I won an argument?

When you start whining about name-calling (that you've been doing)* and dodging all of the legitimate arguments? I'm not sure "won" is the proper term there.

*Plus, I wasn't calling you an arrogant asshole. I was saying that anyone who presumes to "have a problem" with a private medical decision between a doctor and patient they've never met is an arrogant asshole. Are you volunteering for that label?


Can I have your autograph?
Seriously.
 
2011-12-22 12:33:39 PM

buck1138: I'm pretty sure the south "don't want to deal" with "a few thousand people" who were "vocal idiots" because they felt jim crow laws "should be broken", but they ended up having to.


LMAO, you're basically saying there should be no criteria based clubs on the planet if you really can't see the difference between scouts and segregation laws. Why not make everyone wear the same uniform, eat the same food while you're at it. Or maybe you can just get over the fact that not every group of people wants to include you in everything they do.
 
2011-12-22 12:37:01 PM
Some of you people are taking this a bit too seriously. Step back. Breath a bit. Then realize, you are not in the Girl Scouts.
 
2011-12-22 12:37:15 PM

RminusQ: So why hate it so much?

Because others use the penis to define you,


OK, so hate them for beings pen1ss. Don't hate part of your own self. Be a fabulous girl with a great wang but PLEASE don't hate yourself because people can be d1cks. I just hate for people to hate on themselves if they don't deserve it.
 
2011-12-22 12:41:44 PM

keylock71: The My Little Pony Killer: So that's three whole troops of little girls who get to miss out on scouting just because their troop leaders felt the need to act bigoted toward a 7-year-old. Lovely.

A 7 year old in a completely different state and Troop, I might add...

It's hilarious watching some folks in this thread get all worked up about a 7 year old transgendered kid being allowed into the Girls Scouts.

The Troop, in question has no problem with it.

So why do so many of folks in this thread have a problem with it and, more importantly, why do they care what a Girl Scout Troop in Colorado does?

The Puritans really did a job on our national psyche regarding sexuality and gender, I tell ya...


It still amazes me, the number of people who see something new and absolutely *refuse* to ask themselves, "hey, is what that person doing with their life personally harming me in mine?"

/blocking the bigots brought this thread from 8 pages down to 3
 
2011-12-22 12:42:15 PM
Is this child Native American by any chance?

Two-Spirit People (new window)
 
2011-12-22 12:44:39 PM
so a boy can join the girl scouts now? well that doesn't make sense
 
2011-12-22 12:44:58 PM

IAMTHEINTARWEBS: RminusQ: So why hate it so much?

Because others use the penis to define you,

OK, so hate them for beings pen1ss. Don't hate part of your own self. Be a fabulous girl with a great wang but PLEASE don't hate yourself because people can be d1cks. I just hate for people to hate on themselves if they don't deserve it.


I half expected you to call it the Gyrl Scouts.
 
2011-12-22 12:46:03 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: buck1138: I'm pretty sure the south "don't want to deal" with "a few thousand people" who were "vocal idiots" because they felt jim crow laws "should be broken", but they ended up having to.

LMAO, you're basically saying there should be no criteria based clubs on the planet if you really can't see the difference between scouts and segregation laws. Why not make everyone wear the same uniform, eat the same food while you're at it. Or maybe you can just get over the fact that not every group of people wants to include you in everything they do.


Just read your profile, are you trolling me? If not I guess you win cause I don't really have the energy to continue this.
 
2011-12-22 12:46:49 PM

PraetorianXVIII: so a boy can join the girl scouts now? well that doesn't make sense


*Obi Wan voice*

He's more female than male, now.

*Obi Wan voice off*
 
2011-12-22 12:48:42 PM

osafer: You know how I know when I won an argument?


osafer: Oh, and fark off you no class assclown...


^^^ Like this?
 
2011-12-22 12:49:52 PM
I'm all for tolerance but where do we draw the line? I feel like I should be a girl? Too farking bad, you're not! Be gay if you like boys or be a sissy if you like feminine things (Metro sexual I guess is the accepted term). I see no reason for society to put up with this kind of goofiness. I suddenly decided I should be a woman so don't mind me hanging out in the women's bathroom.
 
2011-12-22 12:50:55 PM

lilplatinum: you should substantiate your claims for good orders sake


it's really cute how you think the internet works this way. adorable, actually.

in 30 years, you'll be trying to explain to your grandkids (if you're still alive) why you stood in the way of equal rights and a progressive view of gender identification, or you'll be lying and saying that you were on the right side the whole time. Either way, you'll know you were wrong. You're going to lose this fight, because the younger generations don't have a stick up their asses like you do.

Also, substantiate my claims for good orders sake? You're hilarious.
 
2011-12-22 12:51:45 PM

MooseUpNorth: osafer: You know how I know when I won an argument?

osafer: Oh, and fark off you no class assclown...

^^^ Like this?


Actually that was in response to him calling me names.... I know I shouldn't have, but you sometimes you have to stoop to their level to get your point across...

Thanks, for pointing out my pettiness.
 
2011-12-22 12:54:34 PM

PraetorianXVIII: so a boy can join the girl scouts now? well that doesn't make sense


Is that really such a mindfark for you?

Wiki: In 1972, Scouts Canada began accepting female members as part of its Rover Section. This was expanded in 1984 to include the Venturer Section. In 1992, co-ed Scouting was an option for all program sections and became policy for all sections in 1998.

I figure, in another generation, the Girl Guides of Canada will have wound up merging with Scouts Canada.
 
2011-12-22 12:56:48 PM

hitlersbrain: I'm all for tolerance but where do we draw the line?


No idea, but I feel safe in suggesting that offing Jews, gypsies and gays by the millions would be somewhere on the "too intolerant" side of that line.
 
2011-12-22 12:57:06 PM

MooseUpNorth: PraetorianXVIII: so a boy can join the girl scouts now? well that doesn't make sense

Is that really such a mindfark for you?

Wiki: In 1972, Scouts Canada began accepting female members as part of its Rover Section. This was expanded in 1984 to include the Venturer Section. In 1992, co-ed Scouting was an option for all program sections and became policy for all sections in 1998.

I figure, in another generation, the Girl Guides of Canada will have wound up merging with Scouts Canada.


First, the metric system and Neil Young, now this? Canada really is all about coming up with ways to mess with us.
 
2011-12-22 01:03:36 PM
www.dvdactive.com
 
2011-12-22 01:05:27 PM
i.ytimg.com

perhaps this'll work
 
2011-12-22 01:05:44 PM

CapnBlues: in 30 years, you'll be trying to explain to your grandkids (if you're still alive) why you stood in the way of equal rights and a progressive view of gender identification, or you'll be lying and saying that you were on the right side the whole time. Either way, you'll know you were wrong. You're going to lose this fight, because the younger generations don't have a stick up their asses like you do.


As inevitable as the waters flowing into the sea. The intolerant eventually get dragged into the future, usually kicking and screaming, and the rest of us will shake our heads sadly, pity them, and wonder at how people could ever have been so ignorant, deluded, and amoral.

... While we kick the doors down on the next barrier to social justice caused by discrimination.
 
2011-12-22 01:07:46 PM
I cannot relate at all to transgender people. I don't know at all what it is like to be so certain you are in the wrong body. I do know youngsters are very confused, and I know they crave attention. And, if they feel like insisting they are really a different sex will get attention, they will do it. That said, I believe there are many legitimate cases, and I think psychological help should be enlisted to help these children sort out whether they are legitimate.

As for TFA, these Christians are bigoted idiots.
 
2011-12-22 01:08:45 PM
Only boy in a tent full of girls?
I wanna be a girl scout, I wanna be a girl scout
 
2011-12-22 01:08:48 PM

osafer: Actually that was in response to him calling me names.... I know I shouldn't have, but you sometimes you have to stoop to their level to get your point across...

Thanks, for pointing out my pettiness.


Forgive my brief pedanticism, but what you did was engage in hypocrisy. Had you started it, then it would have been engaging in pettiness.

/ But sure.
 
2011-12-22 01:09:53 PM

I_C_Weener: First, the metric system and Neil Young, now this? Canada really is all about coming up with ways to mess with us.


Ya gotta have hobbies, right?
 
2011-12-22 01:11:46 PM
I'm so glad I self identified as a pony when I was 5.

//lude
 
2011-12-22 01:15:28 PM

Baryogenesis: Your intelligent and well thought out post astounds me. Transgender == different species. Simply amazing!


The box has been opened, give it time and this will be tested.
 
2011-12-22 01:16:29 PM

MooseUpNorth: hitlersbrain: I'm all for tolerance but where do we draw the line?

No idea, but I feel safe in suggesting that offing Jews, gypsies and gays by the millions would be somewhere on the "too intolerant" side of that line.


You're just four legged herbivore with big goofy antlers, what do you know?
 
2011-12-22 01:21:44 PM

MooseUpNorth: PraetorianXVIII: so a boy can join the girl scouts now? well that doesn't make sense

Is that really such a mindfark for you?

Wiki: In 1972, Scouts Canada began accepting female members as part of its Rover Section. This was expanded in 1984 to include the Venturer Section. In 1992, co-ed Scouting was an option for all program sections and became policy for all sections in 1998.

I figure, in another generation, the Girl Guides of Canada will have wound up merging with Scouts Canada.


boys and girls can do venture scouting in the US, too. I don't mind that. It's the Venture Scouts--not the BOY Scouts.
It isn't a "mindfark," so much as an annoyance, kind of like when the history channel has Ice Road Truckers or the learning channel shows Toddlers and Tiaras. You'd figure the former would show "history shows," the latter, "learning" shows, and the GIRL SCOUTS would cater to GIRLS.
 
2011-12-22 01:24:35 PM

stuffy: Only boy in a tent full of girls?
I wanna be a girl scout, I wanna be a girl scout


I've always felt I was a lesbian, trapped in a man's icky body.

Seriously though. I think this kid could use some help. In toady's world there are very few things that are limited to one sex or the other. If pretending to be something you're not is your way of getting through the day then I think you have problems.
 
2011-12-22 01:29:15 PM

MooseUpNorth: hitlersbrain: I'm all for tolerance but where do we draw the line?

No idea, but I feel safe in suggesting that offing Jews, gypsies and gays by the millions would be somewhere on the "too intolerant" side of that line.


Doing the same to lawyers and/or politicians would be OK though.
 
2011-12-22 01:32:04 PM

CayceP: Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

Yes. Gender presentation and who you like to fark are different things.

/I am sure this thread will be thoughtful and respectful.


I don't want to be pedantic, but who says "sexual identity" has anything with who you like to fark? I think, and correct me if I'm out of line, Gig103, but in that context, I think "sexual identity" is interchangeable with "gender". Sexual preference on the other hand would imply "who you like to fark", but if I'm correct--that the question was about gender (i.e. the gender with which you align yourself), I think it's a valid question. I'm not saying the child isn't transgender, but I do think that 7-years old is too young to make that decision, essentially FOR the child. I didn't read the whole article, so I may be missing things, but I wouldn't dismiss the point out-of-hand.
 
2011-12-22 01:43:43 PM
So, Santa Cruz has a pre-school/pre-kindergarden/(maybe)kindergarden for transgender kids. A couple of thanksgivings ago I had the opportunity to meet a family who was visiting Santa Cruz to check out the school for their child, a 5 year old boy who knew he was a girl. Now, I need to stress that the kid KNEW he was a girl. Expected that he was a girl, and didn't really have a choice in the matter. To him, he was simply a her.
I have to say, everyone here who claims that kids can't possibly identify with a gender that young whould really try to seek out one of these kids and talk to them before being such self-assured judgmental assholes. You are claiming that you are the master of all because this makes you uncomfortable, and because it involves kids, and should be ashamed.
 
2011-12-22 01:45:19 PM
I feel sorry for this little kid. Obviously the parents are encouraging this derangement and the girls scouts - and most of you - have now validated it. Our society is truly sick if it believes a 7 y.o. is "transgender."
 
2011-12-22 01:48:13 PM

mciann: IrishBlunder: So, your high horse? Get off it. Some parents out there don't even know that asthma isn't contagious. And *most* children aren't psychologically equipped to deal with gender issues even if their parents are, so have a care. This is a little *boy* with gender issues and even at the current level of societal tolerance for such things there are still going to be problems. CanisNoir was correct and dealing with the fact of the situation and not freaking out at the peener.

OK, let me get this straight. Because YOU PEOPLE aren't psychologically equipped to deal with the fact that binary physically indicated gender is a fantasy, we should ... what exactly? Go away? Be invisible?


See, there you go again - I've become "you people" - your intolerance is showing again. And FWIW, I myself am quite capable of dealing with it - but I can tell ya right here the majority of pretty much everyone that I know is not. And not only does one have to deal with the sensitivites of "[THOSE] PEOPLE"; but also with a 7 year old potentially TG child who has to suffer the reactions thereof.

And, "no", I didn't even *begin* to imply that transgenderism should be hidden under a rock - just that discretion is the better part of valor for FARKIN 7 YEAR OLD CHILDREN.

And unless you're trying to argue for SRS surgery for young children, your swimming example is pretty damn stupid. There are lots of ways to manage that situation. On the scale of daily challenges TGs have to deal with, that doesn't rate.

And as I said, the swimming issue is an *example*, (and I also illustrated the locker room/clothes changing issue as well) but you don't want to see anything but your issue. If you think that's the only potential pitfall for this kid (as well as his peers) then I have to wonder about your own ability to deal with children when they're not your own - or at all.

You, my friend, need counselling - not for TG issues, but for a level of obsessiveness that would risk trauma to a 7 year-old to deal with (promote..?) your own issue. I've dealt with kids on gender issues, cancer, psoriasis, and other sensitive bits (no AIDS kids to date that I know of) so I'm not completely talking out of my ass as much as you appear to be. My experience isn't clinical or academic - it's everyday shiat out in the real world where kids interact with other kids, and sometimes less-than-tolerant parents. It requires some measure of reasonable delicacy, not taking a sledgehammer to the "[vile and repulsive piece of flesh between your legs]" - which, one might note, you seem to be advocating for this kid *way* more than I am (which I'm not, BTW).

So, good luck with that. Maybe a few shots of tequila, or a bong-hit or something. Or maybe even just a deep breath or two.
 
2011-12-22 01:54:18 PM

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: One girl was called Jean Marie,
Another little girl was called Felicity,
Another little girl was Sally Joy,
The other was me, and I'm a boy.


I'm a boy, I'm a boy, but my Ma won't admit it;
I'm a boy, I'm a boy, but if I say I am I get it.
 
2011-12-22 02:03:30 PM
Contrabulous Flabtraption: Our society is truly sick if it believes a 7 y.o. is "transgender."

I knew I was transgender when I was 7.
 
2011-12-22 02:06:43 PM

WhyteRaven74: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Our society is truly sick if it believes a 7 y.o. is "transgender."

I knew I was transgender when I was 7.


I'm waiting for you to fulfil your fark obligations to that comment...
 
2011-12-22 02:07:18 PM
Ah hem... hehehehe Surely you are getting a kick.
 
2011-12-22 02:09:45 PM
Im all for tolerance of gender and sexual preference but this is not good. A child this age is certainly not mature enough to decide that they want to be another gender. Children change their minds like their socks, daily. Most children this age still refuse to eat their vegetables because they smell "funny."

I understand this is not my child, but any parent that wouldnt say to their child "lets wait another few years and see if you still feel this way" and instead buys them different clothes, and changes their hair is much more immature than their child. I honestly wonder what sort of conversation this mother had with her child that the child actually proposed a good enough argument for their decision that made her think "well i can't argue against that!"

This child's mother should undergo psychological evaluation to determine if she should be allowed to hold custody of her child. Tolerance or not, this child is just way too young to understand the rough road of life ahead being "different."
 
2011-12-22 02:12:25 PM

Peekachicka: A child this age is certainly not mature enough to decide that they want to be another gender. Children change their minds like their socks, daily. Most children this age still refuse to eat their vegetables because they smell "funny."


You can't make sweeping generalizations about children like this. You could say, *most* children aren't mature enough. But something like gender identity can be absolutely intrinsic. It's not a mater of maturity, it's a matter of certainty of how they self-identify with a gender.
 
2011-12-22 02:14:02 PM

Peekachicka: Im all for tolerance of gender and sexual preference but this is not good. A child this age is certainly not mature enough to decide that they want to be another gender. Children change their minds like their socks, daily. Most children this age still refuse to eat their vegetables because they smell "funny."

I understand this is not my child, but any parent that wouldnt say to their child "lets wait another few years and see if you still feel this way" and instead buys them different clothes, and changes their hair is much more immature than their child. I honestly wonder what sort of conversation this mother had with her child that the child actually proposed a good enough argument for their decision that made her think "well i can't argue against that!"

This child's mother should undergo psychological evaluation to determine if she should be allowed to hold custody of her child. Tolerance or not, this child is just way too young to understand the rough road of life ahead being "different."




WhyteRaven74: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Our society is truly sick if it believes a 7 y.o. is "transgender."

I knew I was transgender when I was 7.




I'm guess WhyteRaven74's comment is going to be met with a chorus of *crickets* from folks who just know a 7 year old is too young to think this way...
 
2011-12-22 02:21:34 PM

Peekachicka: Im all for tolerance of gender and sexual preference but this is not good. A child this age is certainly not mature enough to decide that they want to be another gender. Children change their minds like their socks, daily. Most children this age still refuse to eat their vegetables because they smell "funny."

I understand this is not my child, but any parent that wouldnt say to their child "lets wait another few years and see if you still feel this way" and instead buys them different clothes, and changes their hair is much more immature than their child.


In the interests of not being hypocritical, would you advise a parent of a child who says "I want to be my socially-accepted gender" to tell them to "wait another few years and see if you still feel this way"?
Should we return to the age when all children below a certain age, regardless of gender, wore dresses and had their hair long?
 
2011-12-22 02:24:56 PM

Theaetetus: Peekachicka: Im all for tolerance of gender and sexual preference but this is not good. A child this age is certainly not mature enough to decide that they want to be another gender. Children change their minds like their socks, daily. Most children this age still refuse to eat their vegetables because they smell "funny."

I understand this is not my child, but any parent that wouldnt say to their child "lets wait another few years and see if you still feel this way" and instead buys them different clothes, and changes their hair is much more immature than their child.

In the interests of not being hypocritical, would you advise a parent of a child who says "I want to be my socially-accepted gender" to tell them to "wait another few years and see if you still feel this way"?
Should we return to the age when all children below a certain age, regardless of gender, wore dresses and had their hair long?


Think of the dress code cost savings!
 
2011-12-22 02:27:03 PM

Peekachicka: I understand this is not my child, but any parent that wouldnt say to their child "lets wait another few years and see if you still feel this way" and instead buys them different clothes, and changes their hair is much more immature than their child.


Really? Seems to me maturity is a parent saying: "My child, I take your feelings seriously, and won't dismiss this just because it's going to be difficult and inconvenient and many nosy people just aren't going to try to understand. But you're my kid. Your health and happiness are important to me, and you can count on me to have your back, no matter how this plays out.

So go ahead and live as a girl for a while, see if it's right for you, and if you still feel the same when you're old enough to start the permanent part (and mature enough to consent to it, if not quite yet legally), then we can get together with our GP and reevaluate."
 
2011-12-22 02:30:40 PM

osafer: Gdalescrboz: How about "it's none of your farking business, dickwad?"

Gdalescrboz: technicolor-misfit 2011-12-22 06:44:44 AM

Gdalescrboz: The "tolerance" argument is what people use when they can't think of anything to say that makes sense. If your argument is "you are wrong because you are intolerant," then you are wrong.


How about "it's none of your farking business, dickwad?"


If the girl is happier, if her parents are at peace with it, if the GSA is accepting of it, and if if the girls and parents of the troop she belongs to have no problem with it... then how about you take your farking nose out of their business and put in a goddamn book for a few minutes and try to knock some of the steaming pile stupid off your farking noggin.

You also someone is wrong when they turn to insults. On a side note, you complety missed my point. If you can't come up with a better argument that "you are intolerant," then it doesnt sound liek you have a very good argument


No hate like liberal hate...

Liberals have tolerance of other people's views as long as it agrees with theirs or you are labeled a racist, sexist, or whatever ___ist.



Yeah, you have no tolerance for how other people to live their lives.

Yeah, I have no tolerance for your desire to tell others how they should live their lives.


I'm comfortable with that stand.


"Oh, it's always 'be tolerant of the Jews! be tolerant of the Jews!' but then you have no tolerance for our desire to exterminate the Jews. You criticize us for hating the Jews, but then you hate us... You're such hypocrites!"
 
2011-12-22 02:31:05 PM

keylock71:


WhyteRaven74: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Our society is truly sick if it believes a 7 y.o. is "transgender."

I knew I was transgender when I was 7.



I'm guess WhyteRaven74's comment is going to be met with a chorus of *crickets* from folks who just know a 7 year old is too young to think this way...


No crickets here, a child this age is not allowed to do a lot of things because they are not mature enough to think of all the positives and negatives thoroughly. A child this age is not going to think of being harassed in high school gym class because they can not change with the girls and the guy are probably going to shove them in a locker. They are not going to be able to realize the side effects of the drugs they'll be taking or how they're going to explain to their prom date that they can not do the deed because theyre both the same sex.

Im glad that you realized that you were transgender at such a young age. Some people struggle with those thoughts their entire life. However, did you and your parents sit down and have a conversation about it? When it was over did they start buying you opposite sex clothing and change your hair and name? Or was this something that you had to do on your own?
 
2011-12-22 02:32:20 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: [i42.tinypic.com image 400x300]
He feels like he's white, so there's nothing wrong here. Right?


images.zap2it.com

N*gger trapped in white boy's body. He can rap, really.
 
2011-12-22 02:34:23 PM
www.famouspictures.org

It's not our fault we weren't BORN as minorities in a tough urban environment.

WIGGER RIGHTS NOW!
 
2011-12-22 02:39:11 PM
Uchiha_Cycliste: I'm waiting for you to fulfil your fark obligations to that comment...

7 year olds dude...

Peekachicka: A child this age is certainly not mature enough to decide that they want to be another gender.

I knew at that age, and nothing changed.
 
2011-12-22 02:41:47 PM

Peekachicka: However, did you and your parents sit down and have a conversation about it?


Not back then, my parents would've been through the roof if I had said anything back then. But parents who are understanding are hardly unheard of. Also find parents who when their kid comes out go "We knew all along".
 
2011-12-22 02:43:46 PM

WhyteRaven74: Uchiha_Cycliste: I'm waiting for you to fulfil your fark obligations to that comment...

7 year olds dude...


I was thinking, Surely you are getting a kick.
 
2011-12-22 02:43:55 PM
can't wait to see this kid on Intervention in about 8 years....
 
2011-12-22 02:44:21 PM

Theaetetus: Peekachicka: Im all for tolerance of gender and sexual preference but this is not good. A child this age is certainly not mature enough to decide that they want to be another gender. Children change their minds like their socks, daily. Most children this age still refuse to eat their vegetables because they smell "funny."

I understand this is not my child, but any parent that wouldnt say to their child "lets wait another few years and see if you still feel this way" and instead buys them different clothes, and changes their hair is much more immature than their child.

In the interests of not being hypocritical, would you advise a parent of a child who says "I want to be my socially-accepted gender" to tell them to "wait another few years and see if you still feel this way"?
Should we return to the age when all children below a certain age, regardless of gender, wore dresses and had their hair long?



We could also return to the age when boys wore pink and girls wore blue. I could care less. My concern about this child is strictly about their future. Being able to realize whats ahead of them. You can tell a child over and over not to play by the lake because they could drown, they're not able to understand when you try to explain death to them. Children just do not have the same logical mind as teens and they do not have the same logical minds as adults.

If my child at 15 told me he wanted to be a girl, having survived the first year of high school (the beginning of realizing how cruel people can be) I'd say lets go to Pennys! If my child at 7 told me he wanted to be a girl Id be calling his school counselor trying to find out whats going on at school that my son hasnt told me about (bullying, none of the boys want to play with him, etc).
 
2011-12-22 02:46:24 PM
I'm guess WhyteRaven74's comment is going to be met with a chorus of *crickets* from folks who just know a 7 year old is too young to think this way...



Yep. One individual's personal experiences trump all others' arguments
 
2011-12-22 02:47:16 PM

Peekachicka: Theaetetus: Peekachicka: Im all for tolerance of gender and sexual preference but this is not good. A child this age is certainly not mature enough to decide that they want to be another gender. Children change their minds like their socks, daily. Most children this age still refuse to eat their vegetables because they smell "funny."

I understand this is not my child, but any parent that wouldnt say to their child "lets wait another few years and see if you still feel this way" and instead buys them different clothes, and changes their hair is much more immature than their child.

In the interests of not being hypocritical, would you advise a parent of a child who says "I want to be my socially-accepted gender" to tell them to "wait another few years and see if you still feel this way"?
Should we return to the age when all children below a certain age, regardless of gender, wore dresses and had their hair long?


We could also return to the age when boys wore pink and girls wore blue. I could care less. My concern about this child is strictly about their future. Being able to realize whats ahead of them. You can tell a child over and over not to play by the lake because they could drown, they're not able to understand when you try to explain death to them. Children just do not have the same logical mind as teens and they do not have the same logical minds as adults.


I'm not sure of the validity of comparing "dressing like a girl" to "drowning in a lake". Perhaps we should take a poll of how many people dress like a girl and are still alive?

If my child at 15 told me he wanted to be a girl, having survived the first year of high school (the beginning of realizing how cruel people can be) I'd say lets go to Pennys! If my child at 7 told me he wanted to be a girl Id be calling his school counselor trying to find out whats going on at school that my son hasnt told me about (bullying, none of the boys want to play with him, etc).

What if your child at 7 told you he wanted to be a boy? Would you be calling his school counselor, too? Obviously not. That's the hypocrisy I'm pointing out.
 
2011-12-22 02:48:42 PM
Uchiha_Cycliste: Surely you are getting a kick.

Oh there's that too :D

Peekachicka: the beginning of realizing how cruel people can be

Not everyone goes to a high school where people are mean. Not all teenagers are cruel, not by a long shot. And teenagers are not innately cruel.
 
2011-12-22 02:49:28 PM
doubled99: One individual's personal experiences trump all others' arguments

Well you could go ask other transgender people and you'd find the same answer over and over again.
 
2011-12-22 02:54:31 PM

doubled99: I'm guess WhyteRaven74's comment is going to be met with a chorus of *crickets* from folks who just know a 7 year old is too young to think this way...



Yep. One individual's personal experiences trump all others' arguments


They do when all the other arguments seem to be of the "I just know" gut feeling variety with zero facts.

But please, do feel free to explain how it's impossible for a child to know they're transgendered at that age.
Dazzle us with your brilliance.
 
2011-12-22 02:56:47 PM

doubled99: I'm guess WhyteRaven74's comment is going to be met with a chorus of *crickets* from folks who just know a 7 year old is too young to think this way...

Yep. One individual's personal experiences trump all others' arguments


Or maybe peer reviewed studies that have been duplicated (new window) trumps random internet forum opinions on the matter.
 
2011-12-22 02:58:41 PM

WhyteRaven74: Uchiha_Cycliste: Surely you are getting a kick.

Oh there's that too :D


So, uh, do we call you Shirley? =P
 
2011-12-22 03:00:35 PM

The Kitchen Ninja: doubled99: I'm guess WhyteRaven74's comment is going to be met with a chorus of *crickets* from folks who just know a 7 year old is too young to think this way...

Yep. One individual's personal experiences trump all others' arguments

Or maybe peer reviewed studies that have been duplicated (new window) trumps random internet forum opinions on the matter.


Nice try. I'm not going to take anything that guy says about human sexuality seriously. Look at that beard! And the ponytail!

/now, if he wanted to talk about Warcraft or something...
 
2011-12-22 03:04:03 PM

Theaetetus: Peekachicka: Theaetetus: Peekachicka: Im all for tolerance of gender and sexual preference but this is not good. A child this age is certainly not mature enough to decide that they want to be another gender. Children change their minds like their socks, daily. Most children this age still refuse to eat their vegetables because they smell "funny."

I understand this is not my child, but any parent that wouldnt say to their child "lets wait another few years and see if you still feel this way" and instead buys them different clothes, and changes their hair is much more immature than their child.

In the interests of not being hypocritical, would you advise a parent of a child who says "I want to be my socially-accepted gender" to tell them to "wait another few years and see if you still feel this way"?
Should we return to the age when all children below a certain age, regardless of gender, wore dresses and had their hair long?


We could also return to the age when boys wore pink and girls wore blue. I could care less. My concern about this child is strictly about their future. Being able to realize whats ahead of them. You can tell a child over and over not to play by the lake because they could drown, they're not able to understand when you try to explain death to them. Children just do not have the same logical mind as teens and they do not have the same logical minds as adults.

I'm not sure of the validity of comparing "dressing like a girl" to "drowning in a lake". Perhaps we should take a poll of how many people dress like a girl and are still alive?

If my child at 15 told me he wanted to be a girl, having survived the first year of high school (the beginning of realizing how cruel people can be) I'd say lets go to Pennys! If my child at 7 told me he wanted to be a girl Id be calling his school counselor trying to find out whats going on at school that my son hasnt told me about (bullying, none of the boys want to play with him, etc).

What if your ch ...


If my male child said he wanted to be a boy, I wouldn't see a problem with it. He is a boy. If my male child said he wanted to be a girl I'd try to get to the root cause of those feelings, be it some sort of gender identity disorder, bullying at school, whatever. It's not hypocrisy at all to try to figure out why a male is saying the wish they were a girl, or that they want to be a girl.
 
2011-12-22 03:04:49 PM
At the age of 7 I knew I was really an elephant. Therefore, I am an elephant.
 
2011-12-22 03:07:01 PM

WhyteRaven74: Peekachicka: However, did you and your parents sit down and have a conversation about it?

Not back then, my parents would've been through the roof if I had said anything back then. But parents who are understanding are hardly unheard of. Also find parents who when their kid comes out go "We knew all along".


Probably because by the age they have thought it through completely and feel they can explain, also defend, their decision logically and maturely the parents have witnessed years of it. This does in no way make me an expert in this discussion, but I read a few blogs where transgenders were caught with mom's heels under their bed. Eventually after years of finding her favorite pair missing the mom just said "keep em." Thats just awesome! That is understanding.

However, I can not possibly merge "understanding" with "mature" or "responsible." Hearing from your child that they want to be transgender and wanting to help them learn more about their decision so when theyre old enough to buy their own makeup they have lots of support and knowledge about their decision (books for transgender children, taking them to transgender support groups, etc) is understanding and mature. Taking your 7 year old to Pennys to get new clothes and filling out the paper work to change their name is not understanding, its insane!
 
2011-12-22 03:07:29 PM
Uchiha_Cycliste: So, uh, do we call you Shirley? =P

If I'd picked up my coffee cup before I read that, you'd owe me a keyboard :D
 
2011-12-22 03:10:27 PM
Peekachicka: Probably because by the age they have thought it through completely and feel they can explain, also defend, their decision logically and maturely the parents have witnessed years of it

In some cases, yes. In some cases no. In some cases the parents just add one and one together without even really thinking about it. Granted that can leave them in the position of wanting to bring it up but not wanting their kid to feel startled.

Taking your 7 year old to Pennys to get new clothes and

What's insane about that? Clothes are just clothes.
 
2011-12-22 03:10:41 PM

Peekachicka: Taking your 7 year old to Pennys to get new clothes and filling out the paper work to change their name is not understanding, its insane!


The mother in this story hasn't done any such paperwork, so I'm not sure where you're pulling that from.
And for the other - giving your child your shoes is "understanding", but buying the child their own shoes is "insane"?
 
2011-12-22 03:12:18 PM

WhyteRaven74: Uchiha_Cycliste: So, uh, do we call you Shirley? =P

If I'd picked up my coffee cup before I read that, you'd owe me a keyboard :D


So close! drat
 
2011-12-22 03:13:36 PM

stryker4526: If my male child said he wanted to be a boy, I wouldn't see a problem with it. He is a boy. If my male child said he wanted to be a girl I'd try to get to the root cause of those feelings, be it some sort of gender identity disorder, bullying at school, whatever. It's not hypocrisy at all to try to figure out why a male is saying the wish they were a girl, or that they want to be a girl


Uh, yeah, that is hypocrisy.

There's also some misogyny wrapped up in it, too... Many people have no problems with girls that want to be boys - e.g. "tomboys" - and will happily buy them boys' clothes and cut their hair short. We don't suggest that they're insane or that they're abusing their daughters. But, as you say, we need to figure out why someone would wish they were a girl.
 
2011-12-22 03:15:15 PM

lohphat:
Whatever appended to teaching kids to be good people first notepad of tribal tools?


Did you... have a stroke right there?
Might want to get that looked at.

/Sorry, couldn't resist
 
2011-12-22 03:22:43 PM
As for clothes, they change over time. Used to be baby boys got put in dresses just like girls.

upload.wikimedia.org

That's Gerald Ford as a baby.
 
2011-12-22 03:22:56 PM

IrishBlunder:
See, there you go again - I've become "you people" - your intolerance is showing again. And FWIW, I myself am quite capable of dealing with it - but I can tell ya right here the majority of pretty much everyone that I know is not. And not only does one have to deal with the sensitivites of "[THOSE] PEOPLE"; but also with a 7 year old potentially TG child who has to suffer the reactions thereof.


Oh, I see. You're concerned about her. What would you tell her? That she should live as a boy so as not to suffer the indignity of abuse at the majority of pretty much everyone you know?
 
2011-12-22 03:29:33 PM

Theaetetus: stryker4526: If my male child said he wanted to be a boy, I wouldn't see a problem with it. He is a boy. If my male child said he wanted to be a girl I'd try to get to the root cause of those feelings, be it some sort of gender identity disorder, bullying at school, whatever. It's not hypocrisy at all to try to figure out why a male is saying the wish they were a girl, or that they want to be a girl

Uh, yeah, that is hypocrisy.

There's also some misogyny wrapped up in it, too... Many people have no problems with girls that want to be boys - e.g. "tomboys" - and will happily buy them boys' clothes and cut their hair short. We don't suggest that they're insane or that they're abusing their daughters. But, as you say, we need to figure out why someone would wish they were a girl.


No, it isn't hypocrisy or misogyny you tool.
There's a huge difference between being effeminate or tomboyish and actually wishing you were a member of the opposite gender.
Yes, if I had a female child who was saying they wished they were a boy I'd try to find out the root cause of that as well.
But I guess the distinction between being a tomboy/effeminate male and gender dysphoria is lost on you.
 
2011-12-22 03:33:21 PM

ByOwlLight: Girl Scout Promise:

On my honor, I will try:
To serve god and my country, to help people at all times, and to live by the Girl Scout Law.

Girl Scout Law:

I will do my best to be:
Honest and fair, friendly and helpful, considerate and caring, courageous and strong, and responsible for what I say and do,
And to:
Respect myself and others, respect authority, use resources wisely, make the world a better place, and be a sister to every Girl Scout.

/Fark 'em if they can't abide by the Law.
//You'll always have sisters, little chick, regardless of what some asshats think, say, or do.


Damn straight.

Speaking as a former Girl Scout, if a transgender had wanted in with any troop I'd been in, we'd have welcomed her with open arms. (Okay, maybe a bit of teasing from the jackasses, but those jackasses were usually court-ordered there and vanished pretty fast.)

This isn't sexuality. The kid doesn't know if she wants to stick it in girls, boys, or ducks. She's got a girl brain. What part of that is so hard to understand? There's brain, there's body, and that makes gender. Sometimes the wrong brain gets stuck in the body.

That kid is welcome in the GSA I know, and probably welcome in the GSA the world knows. She's got sisters everywhere.
 
2011-12-22 03:36:58 PM

PsiChick: This isn't sexuality. The kid doesn't know if she wants to stick it in girls, boys, or ducks. She's got a girl brain. What part of that is so hard to understand? There's brain, there's body, and that makes gender. Sometimes the wrong brain gets stuck in the body.


So Girl Scouts is only about what you are in your mind? Does that mean that there's a way a girl can behave that would exclude her from being a Girl Scout?

Is the same true for Boy Scouts?
 
2011-12-22 03:38:22 PM

daveinsurgent: PsiChick: This isn't sexuality. The kid doesn't know if she wants to stick it in girls, boys, or ducks. She's got a girl brain. What part of that is so hard to understand? There's brain, there's body, and that makes gender. Sometimes the wrong brain gets stuck in the body.

So Girl Scouts is only about what you are in your mind? Does that mean that there's a way a girl can behave that would exclude her from being a Girl Scout?

Is the same true for Boy Scouts?


I wouldn't bring Boy Scouts into this... They're still dealing with the 20,000 documented cases of child rape that they've been hiding for a few decades.
 
2011-12-22 03:38:44 PM
Twenty years ago, people would be taking the child away and slapping the mother. Also, twenty years ago "sex" and "gender" meant EXACTLY the same thing. It's only in recent years as liberal activists have gotten ahold of the words that the meanings have diverged. What a difference a couple of decades make. And what a brave new world we live in.
 
2011-12-22 03:39:01 PM

PsiChick: ByOwlLight: Girl Scout Promise:

On my honor, I will try:
To serve god and my country, to help people at all times, and to live by the Girl Scout Law.

Girl Scout Law:

I will do my best to be:
Honest and fair, friendly and helpful, considerate and caring, courageous and strong, and responsible for what I say and do,
And to:
Respect myself and others, respect authority, use resources wisely, make the world a better place, and be a sister to every Girl Scout.

/Fark 'em if they can't abide by the Law.
//You'll always have sisters, little chick, regardless of what some asshats think, say, or do.

Damn straight.

Speaking as a former Girl Scout, if a transgender had wanted in with any troop I'd been in, we'd have welcomed her with open arms. (Okay, maybe a bit of teasing from the jackasses, but those jackasses were usually court-ordered there and vanished pretty fast.)

This isn't sexuality. The kid doesn't know if she wants to stick it in girls, boys, or ducks. She's got a girl brain. What part of that is so hard to understand? There's brain, there's body, and that makes gender. Sometimes the wrong brain gets stuck in the body.

That kid is welcome in the GSA I know, and probably welcome in the GSA the world knows. She's got sisters everywhere.


*he
We refer to things with penises as he, dear.
 
2011-12-22 03:39:14 PM

Jobber8742: Kudos to the Girl Scout troop for being accepting. There isn't a real reason to exclude this child other than other people's butthurt. But, this child will never be fully accepted as a girl. This kid can certainly not play on a girl's sports team, nor should she be allowed to. There are physical differences between boys and girls, and unfortunately you can't just let this child play on the girl's team. It is unfair, but to let the child play, it would be unfair to the other girls.

I am completely ignorant of this whole transgender thing. At seven, how do you tell the difference between a boy who just likes pretty things and a boy who believes he should be a girl? I don't think the Boobieser in this thread was being hateful in what he said, he just lacked tact in wondering this same thing.


They usually say it. Loudly, repeatedly, with dresses, and as obnoxiously as possible. Little boys do quite often like 'girl things', but they also quite loudly say 'I'm a boy'. Transgender will say as loudly as possible 'I'm a girl'.

/Interesting reading: Google 'third gender'.
//Enough cultures have them so science is starting to define gender and sex differently--i.e. the brain\society makes the gender, the plumbing makes the sex, and sometimes you've got two opposites in one person.
 
2011-12-22 03:42:17 PM
I hope we can all agree that the mother arranging for her 7 year old child to be on CNN is absolutely ATTENTION WHORING.
 
2011-12-22 03:43:10 PM

Theaetetus: I wouldn't bring Boy Scouts into this... They're still dealing with the 20,000 documented cases of child rape that they've been hiding for a few decades.


But it's intolerant to not let homosexuals be scoutmasters.
 
2011-12-22 03:49:00 PM

Peekachicka: WhyteRaven74: Peekachicka: However, did you and your parents sit down and have a conversation about it?

Not back then, my parents would've been through the roof if I had said anything back then. But parents who are understanding are hardly unheard of. Also find parents who when their kid comes out go "We knew all along".

Probably because by the age they have thought it through completely and feel they can explain, also defend, their decision logically and maturely the parents have witnessed years of it. This does in no way make me an expert in this discussion, but I read a few blogs where transgenders were caught with mom's heels under their bed. Eventually after years of finding her favorite pair missing the mom just said "keep em." Thats just awesome! That is understanding.

However, I can not possibly merge "understanding" with "mature" or "responsible." Hearing from your child that they want to be transgender and wanting to help them learn more about their decision so when theyre old enough to buy their own makeup they have lots of support and knowledge about their decision (books for transgender children, taking them to transgender support groups, etc) is understanding and mature. Taking your 7 year old to Pennys to get new clothes and filling out the paper work to change their name is not understanding, its insane!


I don't think you are framing this the right way, it's not a boy saying I want to be a girl, or I want to be transgender. It's a boy saying I AM a girl. That *makes* the boy transgender.
 
2011-12-22 03:56:25 PM

stryker4526: PsiChick: ByOwlLight:
*he
We refer to things with penises as he, dear.


Do you really need me to Google this for you? We live in a bigendered culture.

This is not a universal, because there are some people who have the brains of women, but the bodies of men. Or vice-versa.

This girl is not capable of being a boy, point-blank. She is a girl. She has the wrong plumbing, but she is a girl. Not 'wants to be', is. Her brain is designed as a girl's brain. Penis has jack shiat to do with it.
 
2011-12-22 04:03:28 PM

Theaetetus:


I'm not sure of the validity of comparing "dressing like a girl" to "drowning in a lake". Perhaps we should take a poll of how many people dress like a girl and are still alive?

If my child at 15 told me he wanted to be a girl, having survived the first year of high school (the beginning of realizing how cruel people can be) I'd say lets go to Pennys! If my child at 7 told me he wanted to be a girl Id be calling his school counselor trying to find out whats going on at school that my son hasnt told me about (bullying, none of the boys want to play with him, etc).

What if your ch ...


Children are unable to completely understand the effect of their decisions. Parents try to teach their children possible events that may transpire after their actions. Sort of like "if you put your finger in the socket you'll get shocked" or "if you don't go to bed right now you'll have something to cry about." This child can not possibly understand what results from proclaiming to society that theyre transgender. Just as a child whom has never drowned understand why playing by the lake without adult supervision is bad. These are things we, as parents, try to explain but they are lessons that are more likely to be learned from experience.


I used the boy to girl because of this article. Plus I have a boy. If I had a girl, I would be calling the school counselor all the same. I would be wondering if she was in a class with more boys than girls. If she was at a new school or in a class where she only had a few friends from her previous class I would be wondering how she is getting along with her peers. If she had an older brother I would probably drill him about not allowing her to play because she is a girl. If that was happening.
 
2011-12-22 04:08:06 PM

WhyteRaven74: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Our society is truly sick if it believes a 7 y.o. is "transgender."

I knew I was transgender when I was 7.


Bullshiat.
 
2011-12-22 04:13:10 PM

WhyteRaven74: Peekachicka: Probably because by the age they have thought it through completely and feel they can explain, also defend, their decision logically and maturely the parents have witnessed years of it

In some cases, yes. In some cases no. In some cases the parents just add one and one together without even really thinking about it. Granted that can leave them in the position of wanting to bring it up but not wanting their kid to feel startled.

Taking your 7 year old to Pennys to get new clothes and

What's insane about that? Clothes are just clothes.



Or maybe the kid wasnt transgender or gay the whole time! Ouch that would be an awkward mistake lol.

Lets not be coy here we both know that the average member of society would gawk, stare, point and make remarks about a boy dressed as a girl. I wish clothes were just clothes, but theyre not. If clothes were just clothes then I could go to Big Bird in my bath robe, night gown and slippers without having to worry about the manager kicking me out.
 
2011-12-22 04:19:20 PM
JonnyBGoode: Twenty years ago, people would be taking the child away and slapping the mother.

No they wouldn't.

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Bullshiat.

Sorry to tell you, I knew then.
 
2011-12-22 04:22:28 PM

Theaetetus: Peekachicka: Taking your 7 year old to Pennys to get new clothes and filling out the paper work to change their name is not understanding, its insane!

The mother in this story hasn't done any such paperwork, so I'm not sure where you're pulling that from.
And for the other - giving your child your shoes is "understanding", but buying the child their own shoes is "insane"?


THIS mother hasnt changed her childs name yes, google "7 year old transgender" and see how many parents actually have done the whole shabang! I also dont know if she took her child to Pennys, she could have taken him to Bon Ton.

That paragraph was a condensed story. Since I did not go into details about the blog and went straight into the "keep em" part I thought there would be a general understanding that there was a civilized conversation about the situation and it came to an accepting conclusion...i was wrong.
 
2011-12-22 04:24:33 PM

WhyteRaven74: JonnyBGoode: Twenty years ago, people would be taking the child away and slapping the mother.

No they wouldn't.

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Bullshiat.

Sorry to tell you, I knew then.


I think you're lying - even though you might believe (or have convinced yourself) you aren't.
 
2011-12-22 04:28:09 PM
Peekachicka: about a boy dressed as a girl

Interestingly that's very much tied to time and place. It's not an absolute. Even now, where you are has a lot to do with it. Right now I could walk a few blocks from my place and see plenty of transgender teenagers and around here no one pays them any mind, no matter how they're dressed or how awkwardly they put on their makeup. It's why they hang around this neighborhood. Men in drag, transgendered teens, whatever, no one bats an eyelash. And the lack of caring is spreading. I've lost count of how many times I've gone downtown here in Chicago and seen a man in drag or someone who's transgendered. Well save for the tourists who would turn their heads, but the locals? Don't even notice. People only care about such things because for some reason they choose to care. And how many care depends on where you are. Oh and as for the teens who come hang around my neighborhood, some go to school wearing the same clothes they wear around here. I've seen a good number walking around with their backpacks because they have come over right after school.
 
2011-12-22 04:36:00 PM

WhyteRaven74: Peekachicka: about a boy dressed as a girl

Interestingly that's very much tied to time and place. It's not an absolute. Even now, where you are has a lot to do with it. Right now I could walk a few blocks from my place and see plenty of transgender teenagers and around here no one pays them any mind, no matter how they're dressed or how awkwardly they put on their makeup. It's why they hang around this neighborhood. Men in drag, transgendered teens, whatever, no one bats an eyelash. And the lack of caring is spreading. I've lost count of how many times I've gone downtown here in Chicago and seen a man in drag or someone who's transgendered. Well save for the tourists who would turn their heads, but the locals? Don't even notice. People only care about such things because for some reason they choose to care. And how many care depends on where you are. Oh and as for the teens who come hang around my neighborhood, some go to school wearing the same clothes they wear around here. I've seen a good number walking around with their backpacks because they have come over right after school.


WhyteRaven74: Peekachicka: about a boy dressed as a girl

Interestingly that's very much tied to time and place. It's not an absolute. Even now, where you are has a lot to do with it. Right now I could walk a few blocks from my place and see plenty of transgender teenagers and around here no one pays them any mind, no matter how they're dressed or how awkwardly they put on their makeup. It's why they hang around this neighborhood. Men in drag, transgendered teens, whatever, no one bats an eyelash. And the lack of caring is spreading. I've lost count of how many times I've gone downtown here in Chicago and seen a man in drag or someone who's transgendered. Well save for the tourists who would turn their heads, but the locals? Don't even notice. People only care about such things because for some reason they choose to care. And how many care depends on where you are. Oh and as for the teens who come hang around my neighborhood, some go to school wearing the same clothes they wear around here. I've seen a good number walking around with their backpacks because they have come over right after school.


Shockingly, SF and Berkeley are like this too.
 
2011-12-22 04:36:25 PM
Wow...I couldn't even manage to read all this. And to those who responded to me about the genes comment - notice I said sometimes. Sometimes it's as "cut and dry" as a gene mutation (mutation? I hate that word in regards to this- gene...creativity?), and many times it's not. I'm also amazed at how many people don't even understand the difference between transgender and gay yet they can go ahead and spout bullshiat about knowing absolutely at what age a kid knows gender identity. Kids understand the difference in sexes very early in life, thus games like 'doctor' and such which have no sexual note to them at all, but pure curiosity of what's different. Many transgender kids may just feel "wrong" somehow, like something is off - but not understand exactly what that is. This child has a loving mother who not only recognized it but is allowing him/her to explore those feelings. And I doubt any of the other girls in the troop give a shiat or would have even noticed if not for the parents.
 
2011-12-22 04:38:48 PM
sorry about the double quote
 
2011-12-22 04:39:33 PM

WhyteRaven74: Peekachicka: about a boy dressed as a girl

Interestingly that's very much tied to time and place. It's not an absolute. Even now, where you are has a lot to do with it. Right now I could walk a few blocks from my place and see plenty of transgender teenagers and around here no one pays them any mind, no matter how they're dressed or how awkwardly they put on their makeup. It's why they hang around this neighborhood. Men in drag, transgendered teens, whatever, no one bats an eyelash. And the lack of caring is spreading. I've lost count of how many times I've gone downtown here in Chicago and seen a man in drag or someone who's transgendered. Well save for the tourists who would turn their heads, but the locals? Don't even notice. People only care about such things because for some reason they choose to care. And how many care depends on where you are. Oh and as for the teens who come hang around my neighborhood, some go to school wearing the same clothes they wear around here. I've seen a good number walking around with their backpacks because they have come over right after school.


Thats great! Good for Chicago! Here in Pittsburgh, not happening lol. There are lots of people who purposely avoid Liberty Ave because "thats where the gay clubs are." Its really pathetic. People chose to settle here because the three rivers protected them from the outside world and that seems to be the general idea still. Since moving out to the rural area its even worse. Just being bi-racial is an abomination. I really hope my son never tells me he is a girl or that he is gay. He'd be killed out here for sure and Pittsburgh Public schools are some of the worse schools in the North East. I guess we'd be moving to Chicago lol.
 
2011-12-22 04:46:36 PM

Peekachicka: Thats great! Good for Chicago! Here in Pittsburgh, not happening lol. There are lots of people who purposely avoid Liberty Ave because "thats where the gay clubs are." Its really pathetic. People chose to settle here because the three rivers protected them from the outside world and that seems to be the general idea still. Since moving out to the rural area its even worse. Just being bi-racial is an abomination. I really hope my son never tells me he is a girl or that he is gay. He'd be killed out here for sure and Pittsburgh Public schools are some of the worse schools in the North East. I guess we'd be moving to Chicago lol.


You could move to NYC - they even have a school here that high school kids can choose to transfer to that's for (but not limited to) GLBT kids if they're having too rough a time in school. Hell, the school has something like a 90% graduation rate, far above average for NYC schools.
 
2011-12-22 04:51:27 PM
Peekachicka: , not happening lol.

Not today, but maybe tomorrow. If you had told someone 30 years ago Atlanta would have one of the largest gay pride parades in America they'd have sent you to the loony bin. People and places change.
 
2011-12-22 04:55:08 PM

WhyteRaven74: Peekachicka: , not happening lol.

Not today, but maybe tomorrow. If you had told someone 30 years ago Atlanta would have one of the largest gay pride parades in America they'd have sent you to the loony bin. People and places change.


Oddly the progressives want change towards inclusion and the conservatives want to conserve current exclusion.
 
2011-12-22 04:59:57 PM
Peekachicka: Here in Pittsburgh,

Pittsburgh being the way it is was actually part of why the American version of Queer as Folk was set there. Though the show was actually filmed in Canada.
 
2011-12-22 05:00:25 PM

Theaetetus: LiquidSky: It's not inconceivable, given that we all carry the genetic instructions for both masculine and feminine development--otherwise every zygote would get 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a boy from Dad and 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a girl from Mom.

WTF? Did you somehow skip primary school genetics? Human males are XY. Females are XX. Does that ring any bells?

Same thing. Early on, you were taught that human males are XY and females are XX. Apparently, you never got the more advanced stuff which says, no, there can be XXY, XXX, XYY, XXYY, as well as XY females and XX males. In fact, due to mutations, genes on other chromosomes can activate sexual development, too. Isn't science amazing?


I actually have a degree in molecular genetics. XXY or XO mutations doesn't change the basic science that the default apparant gender is female and apparant males have a Y chromosome (or the specific SRY gene) - note that I did specifically mention XX-SRY mutations which is effectively the same as a full XXY mutation, and vaguely mentioned other developmental problems that can occur.

None of that changes the fact that the OP clearly said: "It's not inconceivable, given that we all carry the genetic instructions for both masculine and feminine development--otherwise every zygote would get 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a boy from Dad and 1/2 of the instructions on how to be a girl from Mom". That is what I was arguing against - that statement is in no way true. It is simply flat out wrong! You simply do not carry "all the genetic instructions for both male and female development" ... explaining the basic version of the XX vx XY difference is enough to prove that idea completely wrong. There is/was no need to get more complicated & go into mutations or lack of phenotypic expression: the basic primary school explanation is detailed enough to disprove the OPs wacky idea.

If someone said there are only 2 colours: black and white, all you need to do to prove them wrong is give a basic proof/example of another colour ... you don't have to define the freakin' colour wheel. Same idea ... the basic XX/XY science is enough to disprove the idea that normal females carry the instructions for masculine development - no need to complicate things with various mutations.
 
2011-12-22 05:11:55 PM

Silvara: I don't think puberty is required for sexual identity. There are plenty of transgender people out there who will tell you they identified as such long before puberty. Sometimes it very specifically comes down to genes.


The winner is you.
 
2011-12-22 05:14:44 PM

Silvara: Also, those troop leaders aren't even in the same goddamn state. fark em, let them leave.


THIS.
 
2011-12-22 05:18:47 PM

give me doughnuts: Correction: Just girls. The BSA is already intolerant enough.


National Council and Mormon units, maybe. But, National's got another thing coming if they honestly think most local councils or more than a marginal number of individual troops/packs/posts/ships are on board with that or even give a shiat.
 
2011-12-22 05:33:30 PM
But no one would know he's a boy unless they pulled his pants down."

From the stories MrsWambu tells of her Girl Scout camping experiences, this is a likely event.
 
2011-12-22 05:34:48 PM

HoneyDog: I love the one article the person linked to about the identical twins, one of whom identified as being female. The description of the one who remained male...."he was all boy, liked Spiderman, action figures....." So what type of toys you like defines your gender? I always hated dolls and girl type toys. I was always playing with trucks and boy toys. I always liked sports, caught a lot of crap 30 some years ago for pushing to get girls athletic teams. Hell, I joined the military long before it was common for women to do so. According to what some of you are saying, that makes me male. Not a chance! I prefer being the superior gender.


Reminds me of some of the women back on the rez.
 
2011-12-22 05:39:02 PM

technicolor-misfit: Hair Salad: Sounds to me like Mommy wanted a girl.


I hope your parents wanted a retard.


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2011-12-22 05:41:31 PM

I Hope Your Plane Crashes Twice: Plenty of other clubs that can be joined without controversy. Why pick the hardest (giggity)?


They didn't. I mean, we're not talking about a Mormon-sponsored Boy Scout troop in Salt Lake City.
 
2011-12-22 05:42:41 PM

o5iiawah: Thats fine, the GSA can do whatever they want in this instance.

but my GIRL SCOUT wont be sharing tents, bathrooms or activities with a girlwithboyparts scout.


I'm surprised you can post from all the way back in the 1950s.
 
2011-12-22 05:47:27 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: A bulldyke would be accepted to girl scouts, because it has a vagina.


They're more likely to join an Explorer post the moment they turn 16, strangely enough.
 
2011-12-22 05:56:54 PM

Plant Rights Activist: Only 3 leaders ragequit? I'd imagine the boy scouts would implode if anyone tried something like this.


Only in Utah.
 
2011-12-22 06:00:29 PM

Silvara: This child has a loving mother who not only recognized it but is allowing him/her to explore those feelings

on CNN for a national tv audience

The fact that she put/paraded her kid on TV makes her lose a lot of credibility to me as a parent.
 
2011-12-22 06:01:35 PM

PsiChick: Sometimes the wrong brain gets stuck in the body.


Forgive my inner pendant again: Right brain, discrepancy between brain and dangly bits, near-fanatically inflexible and willfully ignorant society that's been defiantly wrong on every human rights issue since... ever.

/ I find it very telling that so many in this thread obsessively prioritize the pecker over the brain.
 
2011-12-22 06:08:52 PM

MooseUpNorth: I find it very telling that so many in this thread obsessively prioritize the pecker over the brain.


The body does have relevance in some circumstances - for example, if this child is 6'4" and 220 lbs and wants to play center for the freshman girls high school basketball team there is a safety issue for the other children that have the body of girls.
 
2011-12-22 06:10:17 PM

keylock71: We try to squeeze kids into these narrowly defined gender roles and it's so ridiculous when you stop and think about it.


IF they stop and think about it. My experience is that most people don't most of the time. Which explains a lot.

ThrobblefootSpectre: So this made me wonder


Have fun with your thought experiments, but remember that real life doesn't work like computer programming.

Peekachicka: Im all for tolerance of gender and sexual preference but this is not good. A child this age is certainly not mature enough to decide that they want to be another gender. Children change their minds like their socks, daily. Most children this age still refuse to eat their vegetables because they smell "funny."

I understand this is not my child, but any parent that wouldnt say to their child "lets wait another few years and see if you still feel this way" and instead buys them different clothes, and changes their hair is much more immature than their child. I honestly wonder what sort of conversation this mother had with her child that the child actually proposed a good enough argument for their decision that made her think "well i can't argue against that!"

This child's mother should undergo psychological evaluation to determine if she should be allowed to hold custody of her child. Tolerance or not, this child is just way too young to understand the rough road of life ahead being "different."


"What a distressing contrast there is between the radiant intelligence of the child and the feeble mentality of the average adult." - Sigmund Freud

It might not occur to most people, but the better part of the experience of 'mature' people coming to terms with their own reality is the undoing of the years of brainwashing they've gotten from growing up in whatever society they did. Anyway, this kid didn't decide she was transgender, she only asserted her own gender identity -- which is a right we all have, at every age.

Theaetetus: Should we return to the age when all children below a certain age, regardless of gender, wore dresses and had their hair long?


What? Would that be some kind of irreversible disaster in your mind? What difference does it make? It sounds to me like you're trying very hard to enforce the same constructed social gender 'norms' that got us all into this mess in the first place. Just let kids be whatever they want, and stop worrying about it.

doubled99: I'm guess WhyteRaven74's comment is going to be met with a chorus of *crickets* from folks who just know a 7 year old is too young to think this way...



Yep. One individual's personal experiences trump all others' arguments


I knew by 9. Are we voting on this? Cuz I'll need to make some phone calls, if we're deciding on reality by a simple vote of anonymous people online.

Pechorin: At the age of 7 I knew I was really an elephant. Therefore, I am an elephant.


You misspelled "loser".

WhyteRaven74: Interestingly that's very much tied to time and place.


I'm glad someone else made this point, in more and better words than I'm feeling up to right now.
 
2011-12-22 06:16:23 PM
Shouldn't a parent be open to the fact that the 7 year old may be mistaken? Rather than demand that everyone treat the child as a girl and throw the child in front of tv cameras, I think the parent should be a little less militant than involving a 7 year old child in a media circus.

Later, when the child nears an age where it is better able to participate in decisions, then be as militant as you and the young teen/young adult mutually agree upon. At 7? No freaking way.
 
2011-12-22 06:20:11 PM

rinasaunce: Shouldn't a parent be open to the fact that the 7 year old may be mistaken?


You mean the same way you're open to the fact that the 7 year old might be right? Sure. I'd say that would be a fair expectation.
 
2011-12-22 06:31:34 PM

MooseUpNorth: rinasaunce: Shouldn't a parent be open to the fact that the 7 year old may be mistaken?

You mean the same way you're open to the fact that the 7 year old might be right? Sure. I'd say that would be a fair expectation.


Exactly. So this parent seems to be so certain of the gender identity of a 7 year old that she has encouraged and participated in a media circus and involved her child in such circus.

Which makes me kinda sad.
 
2011-12-22 06:32:51 PM

SevenizGud: Baryogenesis:

Your intelligent and well thought out post astounds me. Transgender == different species. Simply amazing!

It's the GIRL scouts. The person was not a girl, douchenozzle. So if you folks are going to allow people who are not girls into the GIRL scouts


There was a boy in my Girl Scout troop. 20 years ago, no one cared. His sister was in the troop, and his mom was one of the troop leaders. I think he got to sell cookies one year, and I vaguely recall that he went to camp with us.

Face it, the GSA is pretty tolerant and easy going. Local troop wants to do something a little different, normally not a problem. It takes uptight idjits a thousand miles away to complain, "take a stand", and ruin things for their own kids. But if that's what they want, hell, I won't miss them.
 
2011-12-22 06:35:47 PM
I'm... just plain not touching this issue with a ten foot pole. I tried to learn in one of these threads. Asked some questions, ended up "the bigot." So hell with it. No comment.
 
2011-12-22 06:54:17 PM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: doubled99: I'm guess WhyteRaven74's comment is going to be met with a chorus of *crickets* from folks who just know a 7 year old is too young to think this way...



Yep. One individual's personal experiences trump all others' arguments

I knew by 9. Are we voting on this? Cuz I'll need to make some phone calls, if we're deciding on reality by a simple vote of anonymous people online.


Looking back, I knew by 5, but I didn't have the words to express it.

It must be a hard thing, knowing at that age, then being forced to pretend for decades until finally hearing the word 'transgender' and having an ah-ha! moment.
 
2011-12-22 07:06:34 PM

TheOmni: Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .

Short answer, yes. Check out this article. It's a pretty positive article about identical twin boys that turned out to be a brother and sister,and it lets you know exactly how early this realization can occur.

And I'm assuming the mother knows her daughter somewhat better than us folks reading about it on the internet.


Seriously, READ THIS ARTICLE. It will make you weep, and smile, and maybe feel a little better about this screwed up world we live in. Sincerely, thank you for sharing this.
 
2011-12-22 07:38:54 PM

Mock26: MannaxOne: Got nuts... go to the boy scouts.
Got no nuts... Go to the girl scouts.

Quit using your children to push your social/political agenda.

And what if the child has both nuts and a coont? What then, of great fountain of wisdom?

(Yeah, yeah, know the child in question is not a hermaphrodite, but just wondering what you have to say on this.)


why then you kill the mutant, pay attention
 
2011-12-22 07:42:13 PM
"Golly, everybody... Look how farking stupid I am! Aren't I clever?"

Golly, you like being an arse don't you. Here I was trying to calmly discuss something.
 
2011-12-22 07:50:23 PM

Gig103: Can a 7 year old be a transgender, if they haven't been through puberty and thus do not have a sexual identity?

FTFA: "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

Oh, YOU believe? That's okay then, it isn't possible your son is a little effeminate, likes dolls and/or might be gay, he must be transgender. This is a stupid situation to put the GSA in .


Done in one.
 
2011-12-22 07:52:20 PM
I believe her point is that at age 7, children are remarkably malleable towards echoing their parents' wishes. In her case, because of her outwardly male social orientation, had her parents decided she was transgendered, she likely would have gone along with it -- despite her not actually being transgendered; merely tomboyish.

Thank you!

I have a transgender child. I have no problem with it. I do question a child knowing this already at the age of 7. Especially after the mom saying she always thought he was born in the wrong body. I'm wondering the kid really is, or if he's being pushed pretend he's a girl to satisfy mommy.
 
2011-12-22 07:52:39 PM

ykarie: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: doubled99: I'm guess WhyteRaven74's comment is going to be met with a chorus of *crickets* from folks who just know a 7 year old is too young to think this way...



Yep. One individual's personal experiences trump all others' arguments

I knew by 9. Are we voting on this? Cuz I'll need to make some phone calls, if we're deciding on reality by a simple vote of anonymous people online.

Looking back, I knew by 5, but I didn't have the words to express it.

It must be a hard thing, knowing at that age, then being forced to pretend for decades until finally hearing the word 'transgender' and having an ah-ha! moment.


Yeah, that's pretty much exactly how it was, and I think that may be fairly common. It would be interesting to collect a lot of stories and compare them. I remember that I definitely knew by 9, but logically, I had to have had some inkling before that. It certainly didn't all come together in one lazy summer afternoon, but was a gradual realisation over time, like so many other things.

Whenever people point out how 'few' people dare to speak out, as if that was some kind of evidence of how few concerned people there are, I always want to ask how many Confederate slaves spoke out about slavery.
 
2011-12-22 08:03:33 PM

Loreweaver: lohphat:
Whatever appended to teaching kids to be good people first notepad of tribal tools?

Did you... have a stroke right there?
Might want to get that looked at.

/Sorry, couldn't resist


Frikkin autocorrect.
 
2011-12-22 08:41:05 PM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: This is the common but mistaken conflation of gender identity and gender-defined sexual orientation.
...
(and a lot of other good stuff in the post)




This post was much too knowledgeable, well written, POLITE - Are you sure you posted on the correct web site?

/Thanks for the post by the way. Well said. Well thought out!
 
2011-12-22 09:06:27 PM
Good point.

There is no such thing as a "transgendered person."

It's just some psuedo-science made by some (Jewish) psychologist.

Millions of years of vvolution says there are males and females.

Why are liberals so intolerant of people who believe in science and evolution?
 
2011-12-22 09:40:22 PM

Genevieve Marie: No one's suggesting anyone have surgery as a kid, but they should be able to dress and present as whatever gender they identify with.


Honestly, kids should be able to dress up for the lulz of that's what they want to do and know they'll have to deal with some teasing, but not too much if they fit in in other ways. Crossdressing won't make a kid gay, it's not the start of a disorder, like wearing a suit and tie won't make him straight. There are also plenty of boys who would appreciate girl scouts more than boy scouts, and vice versa. The girl scouts in general is already a ridiculously tolerant agency, especially compared to the BSA, so I picture it becoming more integrated over the years even if the name doesn't change.
 
2011-12-22 10:32:49 PM

fark80: Good point.

There is no such thing as a "transgendered person."

It's just some psuedo-science made by some (Jewish) psychologist.

Millions of years of vvolution says there are males and females.

Why are liberals so intolerant of people who believe in science and evolution?


We don't necessarily agree that all living things have evolved.
 
2011-12-22 10:44:12 PM
Personally I'd have no problem with a 7 year old boy who identifies as a girl in the Girl Scouts so long as the Girl Scouts didn't engage in any activities that might expose a daughter in a way that's not proper to have a male witness. (I have no idea what Girl Scouts do honestly.)

My problem is this line: The controversy began when Felisha Archuleta protested against a Denver troop's decision to not initially allow her transgender daughter, Bobby Montoya, to join the group. "I believe he was born in the wrong body,"

What do you mean you believe? You're his parent ffs. You're not supposed to believe anything. You're supposed to offer support, mentor, and ensure the child doesn't do anything harmful to himself or others. Not guide him or influence him into these choices, choices he is supposed to make for himself when he's mature enough to do so. This line makes it seem like this woman has been manipulating a child into this behavior due to some deranged mental issue she suffers from to me.
 
2011-12-22 10:44:25 PM
I'd just like to ask the question - what if it is the mother?

Take aside the rest