Wu-kan ain't nothing to falk with!

I suppose americans will be surprised to find out not everybody is a bunch of wimps like they are.

The Vulcan High Priestess approves.

Make the local politicians look evil, and the central government look benevolent.

Carry on, serfs.

I'm curious how this plays out over the next few weeks. After the noise dies down, will other leaders from this town get arrested or disappear? Not all at once; just one or two a month or so . . .

coco ebert: I toldja they was badass!

Yes Wukan?



\got nuthin'.

SilentStrider: In other news, people in China are smarter than the Mayor of Oakland.

Alternatively: China now has more reasonable and liberal governance than the US.

Bunnyhat: People talk about China being the next Superpower of the world and knocking the USA off it's high horse.

Frankly I think it's bullshiat.

I think China is showing a lot of what the Soviet Union was showing in the 80's before it collapsed in the 90's. China keeps trying to paint over the rust spots, but they're starting to show through. Their only hope is to keep ahead of the race and come out a little ahead of what Russia came out like in the 90's

I think it's going to take them a lot longer to fail, and they won't drive right off the cliff like the Soviets did. The PRC party hacks are astute students of history and very adept at a) making their own mistakes and b) learning quickly from them and moving on for the better of their own power base. Everyone thought they would utterly fark up Hong Kong, but that place hasn't skipped a beat -- and they are implementing its lessons learned elsewhere in the country. I'll bet anyone five dollars that in 20 years Taiwan is begging to be re-unified with China, and America will be the new Europe.

Stabone33: Bunnyhat: People talk about China being the next Superpower of the world and knocking the USA off it's high horse.

Frankly I think it's bullshiat.

I think China is showing a lot of what the Soviet Union was showing in the 80's before it collapsed in the 90's. China keeps trying to paint over the rust spots, but they're starting to show through. Their only hope is to keep ahead of the race and come out a little ahead of what Russia came out like in the 90's

I think it's going to take them a lot longer to fail, and they won't drive right off the cliff like the Soviets did. The PRC party hacks are astute students of history and very adept at a) making their own mistakes and b) learning quickly from them and moving on for the better of their own power base. Everyone thought they would utterly fark up Hong Kong, but that place hasn't skipped a beat -- and they are implementing its lessons learned elsewhere in the country. I'll bet anyone five dollars that in 20 years Taiwan is begging to be re-unified with China, and America will be the new Europe.

I can't imagine Taiwan would want to join/merge* China. The standard of living in Taiwan (per capita GDP = $35,700) is far above that of China (GDP = $7600 - CIA world factbook). Their governments just don't get along - China fired missles into Taiwanese waters to try to influence the elections in the 90's. And as far as begging to be re-unified, well, for the past 40+ years it's been China begging/threatening/demanding to have Taiwan join them and Taiwan saying no. I really don't think Taiwan would need to "beg". They could join China by asking.

There were a number of ex-Chinese living in Taiwan who worked for better relations so they could go back to China and see relatives, but their numbers are decreasing. I think the only way Taiwan would join China is if the US decided to abandon them long enough for China's (repeatedly threatened) invasion to occur.

*I have a bit of an issue with the term "re-unified" when both countries have been run by the same government for only about 2 years out of the last 100+ years - and it wasn't by the current government of China.

draypresct: I can't imagine Taiwan would want to join/merge* China. The standard of living in Taiwan (per capita GDP = $35,700) is far above that of China (GDP = $7600 - CIA world factbook). Their governments just don't get along - China fired missles into Taiwanese waters to try to influence the elections in the 90's. And as far as begging to be re-unified, well, for the past 40+ years it's been China begging/threatening/demanding to have Taiwan join them and Taiwan saying no. I really don't think Taiwan would need to "beg". They could join China by asking.

There were a number of ex-Chinese living in Taiwan who worked for better relations so they could go back to China and see relatives, but their numbers are decreasing. I think the only way Taiwan would join China is if the US decided to abandon them long enough for China's (repeatedly threatened) invasion to occur.

*I have a bit of an issue with the term "re-unified" when both countries have been run by the same government for only about 2 years out of the last 100+ years - and it wasn't by the current government of China.

I didn't say it would happen tomorrow...I bet that it will happen in 20 years or so. Take China's economic growth over the last 10-20 years and project that out another 20 years or so.

China has more people, China has more natural resources, and China has a 20-year plan. China subsumed Hong Kong and kept it functioning and profitable, so they're gradually dismantling the econmic need for Taiwan to remain independent. Chinese wealth is increasing quickly in its urban centers. Add to that the fact that China's blatant theft of industrial technology will soon mean it can dwarf Taiwan's manufacturing capacity. At that point, Taiwan will need to be reunified with China, all political differences aside. Recall that Taiwan got all the businessmen and wealthy entrepreneurs who didn't want The Chairman to take all their wealth -- it wasn't an ideological split, per se, but more of an economic split. Once that gap is closed, Taiwan goes back to China without a fight, which is all in China's plan.

Stabone33: draypresct: I can't imagine Taiwan would want to join/merge* China. The standard of living in Taiwan (per capita GDP = $35,700) is far above that of China (GDP = $7600 - CIA world factbook). Their governments just don't get along - China fired missles into Taiwanese waters to try to influence the elections in the 90's. And as far as begging to be re-unified, well, for the past 40+ years it's been China begging/threatening/demanding to have Taiwan join them and Taiwan saying no. I really don't think Taiwan would need to "beg". They could join China by asking.

There were a number of ex-Chinese living in Taiwan who worked for better relations so they could go back to China and see relatives, but their numbers are decreasing. I think the only way Taiwan would join China is if the US decided to abandon them long enough for China's (repeatedly threatened) invasion to occur.

*I have a bit of an issue with the term "re-unified" when both countries have been run by the same government for only about 2 years out of the last 100+ years - and it wasn't by the current government of China.

I didn't say it would happen tomorrow...I bet that it will happen in 20 years or so. Take China's economic growth over the last 10-20 years and project that out another 20 years or so.


Okay . . . using this site's data on per capita GDP, since 1999, China has had 6.3% growth/year, and Taiwan has had 7.2% growth/year (using 1999 and 2010 numbers and assuming exponential growth using the formula exp(-lambda*time) - I'm too lazy to run an actual exponential regression model right now). Tell me again why Taiwan would want to join China?

China has more people, China has more natural resources, and China has a 20-year plan.


China's doing its best to use up those natural resources, and "China has a 20-year plan" sounds nice, but what does it mean. Are you saying that Taiwan isn't thinking 20 years in the future, or that China's map of the next 20 years is much more thorough? Do you think they have the ability to see 20 years in the future better than everyone else?

China subsumed Hong Kong and kept it functioning and profitable,

Mainly by staying out of the way of something that was working when they got it.

so they're gradually dismantling the econmic need for Taiwan to remain independent.

Do you think it was just economics that has kept Taiwan wanting to remain independent? Let me repeat: China was firing missles into Taiwan territory in the 90s. Ask a Tibetian if they can think of any non-economic reasons to want to remain independent.

Chinese wealth is increasing quickly in its urban centers.

According to China.

Want to Google Tienanmen square from inside China's great firewall for a taste of how honest and open the government of China is?

Add to that the fact that China's blatant theft of industrial technology will soon mean it can dwarf Taiwan's manufacturing capacity. At that point, Taiwan will need to be reunified with China, all political differences aside.


I don't think that Taiwan would switch its entire ideology/political system just because China passed it in manufacturing, any more than I think the US would switch if China were to pass us. Why would Taiwan "need" to be unified (you keep saying reunified . . . I'm starting to wonder if you grew up inside China's firewall?) with a country that would oppress its people and drag down its growth?

Recall that Taiwan got all the businessmen and wealthy entrepreneurs who didn't want The Chairman to take all their wealth -- it wasn't an ideological split, per se, but more of an economic split. ...

It wasn't an ideological split??? Do you realize that the government of Taiwan is not, and has not been communist??? You make this sound like they didn't like the chairman personally, but believed in all the same things. If that were true, then Taiwan would be communist.

draypresct: Okay . . . using this site's data on per capita GDP

Dammit, forgot to include the Link (new window).

This is not like Tienanmen Square--this time, the peasants are involved. Chinese officials are smart enough to know that the masses of Chinese will be able to forget about crackdowns on intellectuals and city-bound protests. However, when the peasants in China are angry, emperors tremble, warlords tremble, and even commisars tremble. Mao built his army with China's peasants.