Weaver95: well that's a no brainer. the GOP is making themselves look like idiots. Ok, granted - most of them ARE idiots...but they can't go around for months saying 'tax cuts are good. tax cuts pay for themselves. lets give tax cuts to billionaires and corporations' then turn around and say 'no tax cuts for the middle class - that'll end all life in the universe AND it'll be SOCIALISM'. even the dumbest GOP shill in the 101st chairborne can't defend their bosses on this one.

So you are saying you are ignorant of spending deficits, growing debt, and the like? You are okay with hemorrhaging the lifeline of SS to make it become underfunded even sooner? You would rather have instant gratification instead of long term solutions. Got it. You are a politicians wet dream.

Weaver95: well that's a no brainer. the GOP is making themselves look like idiots. Ok, granted - most of them ARE idiots...but they can't go around for months saying 'tax cuts are good. tax cuts pay for themselves. lets give tax cuts to billionaires and corporations' then turn around and say 'no tax cuts for the middle class - that'll end all life in the universe AND it'll be SOCIALISM'. even the dumbest GOP shill in the 101st chairborne can't defend their bosses on this one.

There are a few morons here who will swoop in to do just that. I'm just curious to see which flavor of hypocrisy they'll be using today.

The new official GOP Spokeman (nsfw lang)

MyRandomName: Weaver95: well that's a no brainer. the GOP is making themselves look like idiots. Ok, granted - most of them ARE idiots...but they can't go around for months saying 'tax cuts are good. tax cuts pay for themselves. lets give tax cuts to billionaires and corporations' then turn around and say 'no tax cuts for the middle class - that'll end all life in the universe AND it'll be SOCIALISM'. even the dumbest GOP shill in the 101st chairborne can't defend their bosses on this one.

So you are saying you are ignorant of spending deficits, growing debt, and the like? You are okay with hemorrhaging the lifeline of SS to make it become underfunded even sooner? You would rather have instant gratification instead of long term solutions. Got it. You are a politicians wet dream.

Well, Ronald Reagan proved deficits don't matter.

all Obama has to do is give everyone who is poor a million dollars, that way republicans will support cutting their taxes.

MyRandomName: Weaver95: well that's a no brainer. the GOP is making themselves look like idiots. Ok, granted - most of them ARE idiots...but they can't go around for months saying 'tax cuts are good. tax cuts pay for themselves. lets give tax cuts to billionaires and corporations' then turn around and say 'no tax cuts for the middle class - that'll end all life in the universe AND it'll be SOCIALISM'. even the dumbest GOP shill in the 101st chairborne can't defend their bosses on this one.

So you are saying you are ignorant of spending deficits, growing debt, and the like? You are okay with hemorrhaging the lifeline of SS to make it become underfunded even sooner? You would rather have instant gratification instead of long term solutions. Got it. You are a politicians wet dream.

So you support the millionaire surtax the Dems wanted to pay for it?

max_pooper: There are a few morons here who will swoop in to do just that. I'm just curious to see which flavor of hypocrisy they'll be using today.

I'll try. Bu... bu... but Republicans are responsible for the booming economy and surpluses of the 90s! Taxes were raised in the 90s! We're simply trying to replicate our past success! The Democrats are blocking economic growth just to make us look bad at Christmas time!

Now I have a headache.

This is like a big game of good cop bad cop.

MyRandomName: Weaver95: well that's a no brainer. the GOP is making themselves look like idiots. Ok, granted - most of them ARE idiots...but they can't go around for months saying 'tax cuts are good. tax cuts pay for themselves. lets give tax cuts to billionaires and corporations' then turn around and say 'no tax cuts for the middle class - that'll end all life in the universe AND it'll be SOCIALISM'. even the dumbest GOP shill in the 101st chairborne can't defend their bosses on this one.

So you are saying you are ignorant of spending deficits, growing debt, and the like? You are okay with hemorrhaging the lifeline of SS to make it become underfunded even sooner? You would rather have instant gratification instead of long term solutions. Got it. You are a politicians wet dream.

This year's FICA cuts were designed to take whatever money left the SS trust fund and replace that money with general revenues collected from other sources to prevent the trust fund from getting depleted. Presumably next year's FICA cuts will do the exact same thing.

A Dark Evil Omen: MyRandomName: Weaver95: well that's a no brainer. the GOP is making themselves look like idiots. Ok, granted - most of them ARE idiots...but they can't go around for months saying 'tax cuts are good. tax cuts pay for themselves. lets give tax cuts to billionaires and corporations' then turn around and say 'no tax cuts for the middle class - that'll end all life in the universe AND it'll be SOCIALISM'. even the dumbest GOP shill in the 101st chairborne can't defend their bosses on this one.

So you are saying you are ignorant of spending deficits, growing debt, and the like? You are okay with hemorrhaging the lifeline of SS to make it become underfunded even sooner? You would rather have instant gratification instead of long term solutions. Got it. You are a politicians wet dream.

So you support the millionaire surtax the Dems wanted to pay for it?

And allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire?

And you expect the House Republicans to support both positions, right?

No matter which side 'wins' we the people still lose. The Republicans have hijacked the debate and moved the discussions so far to the right that now we're arguing not over whether tax cuts are necessary but what little insignificant riders come along with them.

MyRandomName: Weaver95: well that's a no brainer. the GOP is making themselves look like idiots. Ok, granted - most of them ARE idiots...but they can't go around for months saying 'tax cuts are good. tax cuts pay for themselves. lets give tax cuts to billionaires and corporations' then turn around and say 'no tax cuts for the middle class - that'll end all life in the universe AND it'll be SOCIALISM'. even the dumbest GOP shill in the 101st chairborne can't defend their bosses on this one.

So you are saying you are ignorant of spending deficits, growing debt, and the like? You are okay with hemorrhaging the lifeline of SS to make it become underfunded even sooner? You would rather have instant gratification instead of long term solutions. Got it. You are a politicians wet dream.

It's almost as if they didn't attempt to pay for it with a millionaires tax hike. If only the GOP has not been a**holes

It's hard to accept there's a year of this shiat left.

What a bunch of f*cking hypocrites.

CUT TAXES CUT TAXES CUT TAXES NO NOT THOSE TAXES CUT TAXES CUT TAXES

Jake Havechek: MyRandomName: Weaver95: well that's a no brainer. the GOP is making themselves look like idiots. Ok, granted - most of them ARE idiots...but they can't go around for months saying 'tax cuts are good. tax cuts pay for themselves. lets give tax cuts to billionaires and corporations' then turn around and say 'no tax cuts for the middle class - that'll end all life in the universe AND it'll be SOCIALISM'. even the dumbest GOP shill in the 101st chairborne can't defend their bosses on this one.

So you are saying you are ignorant of spending deficits, growing debt, and the like? You are okay with hemorrhaging the lifeline of SS to make it become underfunded even sooner? You would rather have instant gratification instead of long term solutions. Got it. You are a politicians wet dream.

Well, Ronald Reagan proved deficits don't matter.*

*Right now.

He sold out my generation to fix the last generations early/mid-life problems. Stealing wealth and productivity from the future is the basis of trickle down economics. Quarter to quarter rises in profits must continue into infinity, after all.

I've got an idea. When they change tax rates, why not make it permanent, thereby avoiding the inevitable conflict when they are about to expire? Kicking the can?

Yeah, well, not really.
Obama only looks smart and efective because these guys are the political equivalent of the three stooges.

MyRandomName: Weaver95: well that's a no brainer. the GOP is making themselves look like idiots. Ok, granted - most of them ARE idiots...but they can't go around for months saying 'tax cuts are good. tax cuts pay for themselves. lets give tax cuts to billionaires and corporations' then turn around and say 'no tax cuts for the middle class - that'll end all life in the universe AND it'll be SOCIALISM'. even the dumbest GOP shill in the 101st chairborne can't defend their bosses on this one.

So you are saying you are ignorant of spending deficits, growing debt, and the like? You are okay with hemorrhaging the lifeline of SS to make it become underfunded even sooner? You would rather have instant gratification instead of long term solutions. Got it. You are a politicians wet dream.

I think it is more you are the GOP wet dream. A defender who is no where near the 1% defending their position that deficits should be paid for by the bottom of the financial ladder not the top.

Cat Food Sandwiches: I've got an idea. When they change tax rates, why not make it permanent, thereby avoiding the inevitable conflict when they are about to expire? Kicking the can?

because nobody wants to be the guy that raises taxes

TyrantII: Quarter to quarter rises in profits must continue into infinity, after all.

Without the quarterly growth, this whole game comes apart.
As we're seeing.

Christ, this is retarded. The positions these assholes take are indefensible. Democrats say "Let's cut taxes on the middle class and pay for it by raising taxes on the rich." Republicans say "Let's cut taxes on the rich and pay for it by raising taxes on the middle class. Oh wait, that won't make up the difference, so we're also going to have to kill all of these social programs that will help the people we're going to raise taxes on." I mean, how oblivious do you have to be to still support Republicans when they're selling you out for the rich guys who tanked the economy in the first place?

Forget the deficit, forget spending, forget any social issues. Those things can wait til after you have money. And the Republicans are taking money out of your pocket and giving it to people who already have more than you will ever see in your life.

Shall we continue to build palace after palace for the rich? Or shall we aspire to a more noble purpose and build decent housing for the poor? How does the senate vote?

phyrkrakr: Forget the deficit, forget spending, forget any social issues. Those things can wait til after you have money.

O rly?

So we should put the country on hold until the coffers fill up again?

HotIgneous Intruder: TyrantII: Quarter to quarter rises in profits must continue into infinity, after all.

Without the quarterly growth, this whole game comes apart.
As we're seeing.

That's a facile argument. It is given the set of arbitrary circumstances we have created. Parameters could be amended to a stasis based no profit economy.

Shaggy_C: No matter which side 'wins' we the people still lose. The Republicans have hijacked the debate and moved the discussions so far to the right that now we're arguing not over whether tax cuts are necessary but what little insignificant riders come along with them.

Yup.

Actually step back and look at this - we're in the middle of a recession and the federal deficit is at obscene levels, and yet a democratic president is fighting for tax cuts, something not even the Republicans would have tried forty or so years back. That's how utterly dominated by right-wing thought modern day politics are.

But hey, at least our guy looks like less of a dick than their guy. That's what's important, isn't it?

Absolute bullsh*t. If the payroll "tax cut" doesn't get renewed, it will be 100% Obama's fault and no one else's. The 2010 election proved that the American people know where to place the blame when the president can't get his legislation through Congress.

aselene: Absolute bullsh*t. If the payroll "tax cut" doesn't get renewed, it will be 100% Obama's fault and no one else's. The 2010 election proved that the American people know where to place the blame when the president can't get his legislation through Congress.

Gunther: But hey, at least our guy looks like less of a dick than their guy. That's what's important, isn't it?

I dunno. The real "dicks" here are the businesses sitting on a ton of cash that refuse to hire, and are content to keep taking more taxpayer money and still refusing to hire.

I'm mystified as to what the House Republicans' endgame is on this issue. Yes, they love any opportunity to make Democrats look like the losers, but Obama agreeing (in principle) to making a decision on the Keystone XL pipeline in return for a one-year extension of the payroll tax cut was probably the biggest victory they could have hoped for. Not only did they turn down that deal, but apparently their commuication with their Senate colleagues was so abysmal that now they're in a no-win situation.

I mean, seriously, these are their options:

1) Vote for the two-month extension now. Yes it will be somewhat embarrassing (and entirely self-inflicted), but it will be forgotten quickly, especially since we'll repeat this dance in February.

2) Continue insisting on a conference committee. In the absolute, best case Fantasyland scenario, the Republican messaging machine manages to convince the public that this stance is a good thing. They manage to negotiate a final bill that looks more or less like what they've already turned down in the past.

I know the Democrats just love caving to Republican pressure, but the odds of Option 2 seem infintesimally small. I respect the Republicans' ability to brainwash the weak-minded, but surely this is beyond even their ability?

Gunther: Shaggy_C: No matter which side 'wins' we the people still lose. The Republicans have hijacked the debate and moved the discussions so far to the right that now we're arguing not over whether tax cuts are necessary but what little insignificant riders come along with them.

Yup.

Actually step back and look at this - we're in the middle of a recession and the federal deficit is at obscene levels, and yet a democratic president is fighting for tax cuts, something not even the Republicans would have tried forty or so years back. That's how utterly dominated by right-wing thought modern day politics are.

But hey, at least our guy looks like less of a dick than their guy. That's what's important, isn't it?

Well, to be fair, the original deal proposed a tax shift ( to millionaires) and wasn't exactly a cut. This is a cut.

Tibeerius: I'm mystified as to what the House Republicans' endgame is on this issue. Yes, they love any opportunity to make Democrats look like the losers, but Obama agreeing (in principle) to making a decision on the Keystone XL pipeline in return for a one-year extension of the payroll tax cut was probably the biggest victory they could have hoped for. Not only did they turn down that deal, but apparently their commuication with their Senate colleagues was so abysmal that now they're in a no-win situation.

I mean, seriously, these are their options:

1) Vote for the two-month extension now. Yes it will be somewhat embarrassing (and entirely self-inflicted), but it will be forgotten quickly, especially since we'll repeat this dance in February.

2) Continue insisting on a conference committee. In the absolute, best case Fantasyland scenario, the Republican messaging machine manages to convince the public that this stance is a good thing. They manage to negotiate a final bill that looks more or less like what they've already turned down in the past.

I know the Democrats just love caving to Republican pressure, but the odds of Option 2 seem infintesimally small. I respect the Republicans' ability to brainwash the weak-minded, but surely this is beyond even their ability?



You know we've jumped the shark when Republicans won't even let Democrats cave to their demands.

Gunther: Actually step back and look at this - we're in the middle of a recession and the federal deficit is at obscene levels, and yet a democratic president is fighting for tax cuts, something not even the Republicans would have tried forty or so years back. That's how utterly dominated by right-wing thought modern day politics are.

To be totally clear, Obama is fighting to avoid the expiration of tax cuts during a tremulous recovery. This action is totally consistent with what he said during the campaign. For example, Obama also promised not to let the Bush tax cuts expire in the event of recession. Link (new window)

The reason is because, like the great majority of modern mainstream economists, Obama is a keynesian. He believes government can ameliorate the length and depth of economic downturns through its taxation and spending policies. As the link I posted above shows, Obama understands that tax increases are anti-stimulative, and should be avoided when the economy might not be able to handle it.

I know both sides are always equally bad no matter what. But it's also true that sometimes one side is acting consistent with mainstream economic theory, and the other side isn't. That doesn't make them any less equally bad, mind you. But it does make one side less bad than the other.

bugontherug: But it's also true that sometimes one side is acting consistent with mainstream economic theory, and the other side isn't.

Bootstrappin' it isn't a "consistent mainstream economic theory?"

Unpossible!

whidbey: phyrkrakr: Forget the deficit, forget spending, forget any social issues. Those things can wait til after you have money.

O rly?

So we should put the country on hold until the coffers fill up again?

Essentially, yes. If you have a problem with deficit spending, now is not the time to slash spending to the bone. If you have a problem with abortion or gays or muslims, now is not the time to fight a multi-million dollar court battle in every state.

Economists have been saying since the 1% got us into this clusterfark that the best way out is to increase government spending, yet these dumbasses chose this moment to start a fight over deficit spending after blowing through huge amounts in two unfunded wars and an unfunded prescription drug benefit in previous two terms.

Look, somebody cratered the economy. Now we have to fix it and make sure it doesn't happen again. There are well-known ways of doing this, and we're not doing them. So until we get the people in office who are capable of doing them, that's the most important issue and the one that you should care about. It helps out everybody in the country, rich and poor alike, and then, if you want to start working on your pet project of making all muslims and gay people live in camps with abortion doctors, we'll talk. But please, please, realize that the economy must come first.

whidbey: Gunther: But hey, at least our guy looks like less of a dick than their guy. That's what's important, isn't it?

I dunno. The real "dicks" here are the businesses sitting on a ton of cash that refuse to hire, and are content to keep taking more taxpayer money and still refusing to hire.

Here's a quick fix for SS that both pays for the payroll tax cut, and makes it permanent.

When you consider the proportion of income that is derived from wealth vs. labor, and when you consider the proportion of income that is earned above the 106k threshhold, you see that less than 40% of the income in this country actually contributes to SS at all. Which is, of course, more than anything why it's failing. As income disparity grows, so does the deficit as regards SS/Medicare.

Lower the tax rate permanently to 2.8%. Get rid of the wage base, apply it to all income. Problem solved.

Weaver95: even the dumbest GOP shill in the 101st chairborne can't defend their bosses on this one.

MyRandomName: Challenge accepted.

Didn't the GOP house pass a bill with the payroll tax cut (new window), but it contained the pipeline language the Dems in the Senate didn't like?

It's pretty redonk that Obama refuses to make a decision on the pipeline until 2013.. after the election.

Why does the house have to cave to the Senate plan?

MugzyBrown: Didn't the GOP house pass a bill with the payroll tax cut (new window), but it contained the pipeline language the Dems in the Senate didn't like?

It's pretty redonk that Obama refuses to make a decision on the pipeline until 2013.. after the election.

Why does the house have to cave to the Senate plan?

What the fark does the Keystone Pipeline have to do with the payroll tax cut?

It's also a violation of the separation of Powers. The congress can't force the president to do anything that is an executive branch power or decision.

meat0918: Maybe the guys with the money finally realize they need to cast off evangelicals, and this is the only way to do it.

Because we all know the Republicans really don't need the evangelicals because that Silent Majority exists, and they just know it.

Open your eyes. The Republicans are the evangelicals. They couldn't ditch them if they wanted. Dubya's reign showed that the Republican Party is screaming towards destruction because they cannot break free of the religious hicks. Anybody who tries immediately becomes a RINO or a Democrat or that big Other that somehow doesn't matter.

The Republicans are stuck with their own tactics. They nursed this beast, and now they cannot escape it. We can witness a bunch of rich Republicans biatching and whining about 'real Republicanism,' but this is what they wanted and got. Sorry if pandering to the retarded is now alienating those people who really believed the lies that the Republicans actually give a shiat about a balanced budget, smaller government, and the like.

CPennypacker: MugzyBrown: Didn't the GOP house pass a bill with the payroll tax cut (new window), but it contained the pipeline language the Dems in the Senate didn't like?

It's pretty redonk that Obama refuses to make a decision on the pipeline until 2013.. after the election.

Why does the house have to cave to the Senate plan?

What the fark does the Keystone Pipeline have to do with the payroll tax cut?

It's also a violation of the separation of Powers. The congress can't force the president to do anything that is an executive branch power or decision.

Republican SOP: dig your heels in and pitch a hissy fit about something because you didn't get your way on a completely unrelated issue.

Tibeerius: I mean, seriously, these are their options:

1) Vote for the two-month extension now. Yes it will be somewhat embarrassing (and entirely self-inflicted), but it will be forgotten quickly, especially since we'll repeat this dance in February.

2) Continue insisting on a conference committee. In the absolute, best case Fantasyland scenario, the Republican messaging machine manages to convince the public that this stance is a good thing. They manage to negotiate a final bill that looks more or less like what they've already turned down in the past.

You forgot option 3: President Obama steps in, negotiates a deal that give the Teabaggers almost everything they want in the spirit of "bipartisanship" and once again he and his supporters will save their toughest words for the few sane folks left in the country that call foul on all of this kabuiki bullshiat.

kasmel: whidbey: Gunther: But hey, at least our guy looks like less of a dick than their guy. That's what's important, isn't it?

I dunno. The real "dicks" here are the businesses sitting on a ton of cash that refuse to hire, and are content to keep taking more taxpayer money and still refusing to hire.

Here's a quick fix for SS that both pays for the payroll tax cut, and makes it permanent.

When you consider the proportion of income that is derived from wealth vs. labor, and when you consider the proportion of income that is earned above the 106k threshhold, you see that less than 40% of the income in this country actually contributes to SS at all. Which is, of course, more than anything why it's failing. As income disparity grows, so does the deficit as regards SS/Medicare.

Lower the tax rate permanently to 2.8%. Get rid of the wage base, apply it to all income. Problem solved.

Yeah that's one hell of a sweet deal for the rich.

They'll love you for that. And then sh*t on you as usual.

And SS is not "failing" BTW. Plenty of money there.

CPennypacker: What the fark does the Keystone Pipeline have to do with the payroll tax cut?

It's also a violation of the separation of Powers. The congress can't force the president to do anything that is an executive branch power or decision.

Why didn't the Senate send back the same bill without the Keyston Pipeline?

Would this be the first time a bill would have more than 1 topic involved?

Why won't the Senate agree to conference committee?

Shills try to push this all on the GOP, but the GOP passed a bill too. And their bill was for 12 mos, not just 2.

A Dark Evil Omen: MyRandomName: Weaver95: well that's a no brainer. the GOP is making themselves look like idiots. Ok, granted - most of them ARE idiots...but they can't go around for months saying 'tax cuts are good. tax cuts pay for themselves. lets give tax cuts to billionaires and corporations' then turn around and say 'no tax cuts for the middle class - that'll end all life in the universe AND it'll be SOCIALISM'. even the dumbest GOP shill in the 101st chairborne can't defend their bosses on this one.

So you are saying you are ignorant of spending deficits, growing debt, and the like? You are okay with hemorrhaging the lifeline of SS to make it become underfunded even sooner? You would rather have instant gratification instead of long term solutions. Got it. You are a politicians wet dream.

So you support the millionaire surtax the Dems wanted to pay for it?

Yes, not only that I support raising income taxes to 10%, 15%, 32% 49%, and 79%.

MugzyBrown: CPennypacker: What the fark does the Keystone Pipeline have to do with the payroll tax cut?

It's also a violation of the separation of Powers. The congress can't force the president to do anything that is an executive branch power or decision.

Why didn't the Senate send back the same bill without the Keyston Pipeline?

Would this be the first time a bill would have more than 1 topic involved?

Why won't the Senate agree to conference committee?

Shills try to push this all on the GOP, but the GOP passed a bill too. And their bill was for 12 mos, not just 2.

The senate did that. The house won't vote on it. I'm sorry, but this is ENTIRELY the GOP's fault. They are acting like children. As farking usual.