Fritz said they are devastated but comforted by the possibility that she died accidentally.

Being shot and killed from 1.5 miles away by an accidentally discharged firearm? That's on the "freak gardening accident" level of absurdity

"For a bullet to kill someone after traveling a mile and a half is "a practical impossibility," said Greg Danas, a Lowell, Mass., firearms expert who testifies in court as an expert witness. "The muzzle loader, or any firearm for that matter, isn't going to fire a projectile that far."

There have been incidents in the military when bullets have gone that distance and killed someone, he said, but it is not likely to happen if it is not intentional. It would require someone taking careful aim and making sure the firearm is steady, he said"


He wasnt TRYING to kill the girl.....Can you imagine this guy having your life in his hands testifying against you?

very sad, happened near my cousin's town and it has been devastating.

Apparently he's been phoning them daily since it happened trying to apologize, but they're ignoring him. Pretty cold.

The dude cleaning his muzzleloader needs to be cockpunched. Who the fark fires a gun into the air? Too hard to shoot it into some soft, dug up ground? Jesus that is weapons-grade retard.

That said, the odds of that shot going that far, let alone hitting the girl, are glaringly small.

asciibaron: very sad, happened near my cousin's town and it has been devastating.

asciibaron: very sad, happened near my cousin's town and it has been devastating.

Last year, a British soldier in Afgahnistan (I believe) recorded the longest sniper kill in history, using a .338 Lapua Mag round at around 2700 yds, roughly a mile an 1/2, and he wasn't alone. Taking into consideration the wind, AND the rotation of the Earth, among other factors, he was able to take out two enemy combatants with one shot.
I find this HIGHLY improbable, let alone possible. These were seasoned professional snipers, with a round that has the ballistic characteristics to make such a shot possible. AIN'T NO BLACK POWDER ROUND gonna keep terminal ballistics at a mile and a half. PERIOD.

redmid17: The dude cleaning his muzzleloader needs to be cockpunched. Who the fark fires a gun into the air? Too hard to shoot it into some soft, dug up ground? Jesus that is weapons-grade retard.

That said, the odds of that shot going that far, let alone hitting the girl, are glaringly small.

^This. Never shoot into the air. Always know what's behind your target.
Also, I'm pretty sure if he had been trying to hit that girl, it would have been a world record shot. One and a half miles with a muzzle loader? International competitions shoot at targets that are 1,000yards at most I think...

Flakeloaf: Apparently he's been phoning them daily since it happened trying to apologize, but they're ignoring him. Pretty cold.

Maybe they have their cell phones turned off or something.

/what goes *clip-clop*clip-clop* BANG!
/my headline yesterday

Anyone check to see if they were filming an episode of Mythbusters nearby?

I like how the Tucson, Arizona is on the cutting edge of Holmes County, Ohio News.

That's very improbable, but possible. I'm sure they'll know soon enough by analyzing the bullet.

Regardless, don't point your guns in the air you dumb shiats.

dpzum1: asciibaron: very sad, happened near my cousin's town and it has been devastating.

asciibaron: very sad, happened near my cousin's town and it has been devastating.

Last year, a British soldier in Afgahnistan (I believe) recorded the longest sniper kill in history, using a .338 Lapua Mag round at around 2700 yds, roughly a mile an 1/2, and he wasn't alone. Taking into consideration the wind, AND the rotation of the Earth, among other factors, he was able to take out two enemy combatants with one shot.
I find this HIGHLY improbable, let alone possible. These were seasoned professional snipers, with a round that has the ballistic characteristics to make such a shot possible. AIN'T NO BLACK POWDER ROUND gonna keep terminal ballistics at a mile and a half. PERIOD.

It was actually two separate shots (new window) that took out two machine gunners, which makes it that much more incredible.

redmid17: dpzum1: asciibaron: very sad, happened near my cousin's town and it has been devastating.

asciibaron: very sad, happened near my cousin's town and it has been devastating.

Last year, a British soldier in Afgahnistan (I believe) recorded the longest sniper kill in history, using a .338 Lapua Mag round at around 2700 yds, roughly a mile an 1/2, and he wasn't alone. Taking into consideration the wind, AND the rotation of the Earth, among other factors, he was able to take out two enemy combatants with one shot.
I find this HIGHLY improbable, let alone possible. These were seasoned professional snipers, with a round that has the ballistic characteristics to make such a shot possible. AIN'T NO BLACK POWDER ROUND gonna keep terminal ballistics at a mile and a half. PERIOD.

It was actually two separate shots (new window) that took out two machine gunners, which makes it that much more incredible.

I stand corrected. Thanks

This is a 'meteor hitting me in the head' level statistic.

What I found fascinating is that the horses kept on going on their own and got her all the way home before she fell out of the cart. What a fantastic designated driver system. Stumble from the bar, climb in the buggy, say 'giddy-up' and pass out. Wake up later in your driveway.

Kygz: This is a 'meteor hitting me in the head' level statistic.

What I found fascinating is that the horses kept on going on their own and got her all the way home before she fell out of the cart. What a fantastic designated driver system. Stumble from the bar, climb in the buggy, say 'giddy-up' and pass out. Wake up later in your driveway.

LOL: Amish teen leads cops on chase, no word if he was driving a white bronco (new window)

The Amish have a tremendous amount of forgiveness. I remember when some whack job killed a bunch of Amish kids in a school house. The Amish community accepted the shooter's parents apoligy.

I wish more people could exhibit that kind of self control. I wish I could, but I'm not one who practices that.

dpzum1: asciibaron: very sad, happened near my cousin's town and it has been devastating.

asciibaron: very sad, happened near my cousin's town and it has been devastating.

Last year, a British soldier in Afgahnistan (I believe) recorded the longest sniper kill in history, using a .338 Lapua Mag round at around 2700 yds, roughly a mile an 1/2, and he wasn't alone. Taking into consideration the wind, AND the rotation of the Earth, among other factors, he was able to take out two enemy combatants with one shot.
I find this HIGHLY improbable, let alone possible. These were seasoned professional snipers, with a round that has the ballistic characteristics to make such a shot possible. AIN'T NO BLACK POWDER ROUND gonna keep terminal ballistics at a mile and a half. PERIOD.

This guy wasnt trying to hit a target. The only skill required to make this shot was pulling the trigger

Flakeloaf: Apparently he's been phoning them daily since it happened trying to apologize, but they're ignoring him. Pretty cold.

Have a seat over there please.

dpzum1: asciibaron: very sad, happened near my cousin's town and it has been devastating.

asciibaron: very sad, happened near my cousin's town and it has been devastating.

Last year, a British soldier in Afgahnistan (I believe) recorded the longest sniper kill in history, using a .338 Lapua Mag round at around 2700 yds, roughly a mile an 1/2, and he wasn't alone. Taking into consideration the wind, AND the rotation of the Earth, among other factors, he was able to take out two enemy combatants with one shot.
I find this HIGHLY improbable, let alone possible. These were seasoned professional snipers, with a round that has the ballistic characteristics to make such a shot possible. AIN'T NO BLACK POWDER ROUND gonna keep terminal ballistics at a mile and a half. PERIOD.

Depending on wind conditions, the bullet could easily travel that far especially if fired a slight upward angle, and it wouldn't necessarily have to be flying perfectly if it hit a soft part of her body to penetrate. The article doesn't say where the bullet hole was on her body, just that she was gravely injured. But if she were hit in the liver or spleen, or really anywhere in the abdomen, that could have done enough damage, as could strikes to certain parts of the head. It also could even have been a fairly minor bullet injury, but if the hit caused her to fall off the buggy and the buggy then ran her over, that could also cause a lethal injury. It's also not clear how long she was lying there before someone found her.

/very low probability is not zero probability, and therefore it will eventually occur.

Rising_Zan_Samurai_Gunman: The article doesn't say where the bullet hole was on her body, just that she was gravely injured.



according to another article

Well let's see, if you take for instance the Hornady 500 grain INterlock FP XTP Mag fired at 3000 fps at about 63 degrees (which most people would describe as "in the air") you get a terminal range at see level of just over a mile and a half. At that point this half inch wide projectile still has about as much foot pounds energy as a 22 lr fired from a pistol and is certainly enough to kill someone.

So tragically it's possible, although not probable, that this was a freak accident. It's only compounded by the fact that this alleged "firearms expert" has probably testified in hundreds of cases where people's lives were on the line, it's fine to be an idiot and post on Fark but the moment you start trying to pass laws or testify in court or give incorrect opinions to the press about things you clearly should have been able to figure out spending two minutes fiddling with a ballistics calculator you are a danger to yourself and others.

I'd also like to say, I'm not a firearms expert, I just play one on the internet.

FuturePastNow: That's very improbable, but possible. I'm sure they'll know soon enough by analyzing the bullet.

Regardless, don't point your guns in the air you dumb shiats.

And ALWAYS know your backstops..

No way in hell he did it with black powder, it burns to slow to push a ball that far and still have lethal velocity. All the instances noted of kill shots at that distance are using rifle powder and there is a big difference between the two.

Yoder? I hardly know her.

/i'll be here all week
//try the fish
///don't forget to tip your waiter

walkerhound:
/what goes *clip-clop*clip-clop* BANG!

^Love that one.

Would like a word with Tardmitter

[LISTER, near the navicomp hologram, has a robotic-style pool cue. He sets up so he can "shoot" through the hologram. He lowers the "cue" and drinks from a can.]

RIMMER: How many of those are you going to drink?

LISTER: I told you not to talk. Game on.

RIMMER: You're going to drink an entire six-pack of wicked-strength lager?

LISTER: I'm not gonna get plastered, Rimmer, just ... just nicely drunk.

RIMMER: Define "nicely drunk." Is "nicely drunk" horizontal or perpendicular?

LISTER: Rimmer, I can handle it.

KRYTEN: I'm not sure I can.

LISTER: We're in the wrong position. It's an easier shot if we go over here. (He moves into the "better" position and lines up the shot.)

RIMMER: But that's right in the orbital path of the planet! If you miss, we're going to get a planet in the face.

LISTER: I'm not gonna mish.

RIMMER: "Mish?"

LISTER: What?

RIMMER: You said "mish." "I'm not gonna mish," you said. You've only had two cans and you're steaming!

LISTER: Rimmer, will you relax? I know what I'm doing! I am not pished!

[LISTER walks toward the cockpit and into the door. RIMMER covers his face.]

Callous: Well the article says it's a muzzle-loading rifle so a mile and a half is very possible. And being a rifle they should be able to match the ballistics.

Now on the the retard firing it into the air. I certainly hope that he fired it unintentionally into the air. Not that it changes the outcome but it's the difference between being stupid and intentionally stupid.

Look people if you're too stupid to clear a gun without pulling the trigger get a 5 gallon bucket filled with sand to point it into before pulling the trigger.


I agree on the safe backstop part, but I'm not sure you can clear a muzzle-loader without firing it.

hogans: [images.wikia.com image 640x480]

Played for and got !

You mished an opportunity, shubby

For those that are claiming a lead ball won't go that far, a modern muzzle loader doesn't have to use lead balls like those of old. In fact, this is far more common in a modern muzzle loader:

Thompson Center Shockwave Bonded Bullets in Mag Express Sabots

They are essentially modern bullets being shot out of a muzzle loaded firearm. Most don't even use black powder. They use modern smokeless power that is no different that what is in a rifle cartridge and a primer that is placed in the breech of the gun.

You do know that we have a sad tag, eh, Subby?

everyone is talking about them finding out what type of bullet it was after an examination. I thought the Amish didn't believe in autopsies?

still i will add to the discussion, never EVER fire a gun into the air. yeah Mythbusters did an episode on it and I believe some of the smaller firearms weren't lethal when they impacted the ground, but still why even chance it?

/i fired an arrow into the air, where it landed, I know not where
//one mile away "ah shiat my knee"

Callous: Captain Darling: Callous: Well the article says it's a muzzle-loading rifle so a mile and a half is very possible. And being a rifle they should be able to match the ballistics.

Now on the the retard firing it into the air. I certainly hope that he fired it unintentionally into the air. Not that it changes the outcome but it's the difference between being stupid and intentionally stupid.

Look people if you're too stupid to clear a gun without pulling the trigger get a 5 gallon bucket filled with sand to point it into before pulling the trigger.


I agree on the safe backstop part, but I'm not sure you can clear a muzzle-loader without firing it.

You can. I don't know if every muzzle loader comes with one but there is a rod with a hardened steel tip that looks like a tapered screw. You bore it into the lead ball and then pull the ball out. It ain't perfect and can be aggravating as hell at times but it does work. Was probably more intended for when it won't fire at all.

There is a device called a "silent ball discharger" as well. used to be sold by Cabela's, don't know if they still do. It uses 12 gram co2 cartridges to discharge the load safely.

/used to compete in the black powder shoot and hawk throws at Davy Crockett days in Lawrenceburg TN.
//Only came in second one year because a girl out-threw me on the tomahawk range :)

washington-babylon: There is a device called a "silent ball discharger" as well.

Henceforth this is what I shall call it when I rub one out next to her after she has fallen asleep.

Captain Darling: Callous: Well the article says it's a muzzle-loading rifle so a mile and a half is very possible. And being a rifle they should be able to match the ballistics.

Now on the the retard firing it into the air. I certainly hope that he fired it unintentionally into the air. Not that it changes the outcome but it's the difference between being stupid and intentionally stupid.

Look people if you're too stupid to clear a gun without pulling the trigger get a 5 gallon bucket filled with sand to point it into before pulling the trigger.


I agree on the safe backstop part, but I'm not sure you can clear a muzzle-loader without firing it.

Yeah y'can, but it's a PITA. Got to put this screw-deal down the muzzle, screws into the soft lead ball /bullet (what muzzleloaders shoot). Then the screw is pulled out, the projectile with it. Then the powder can be emptied out, the gun cleaned and recharged. But, as I said, not something you'll be happy doing.

Since I'm here, might as well render an opinion. Muzzleloader = no way at 1.5 miles. Just not enough oomph to get there.

/SMACK!

rico567: Since I'm here, might as well render an opinion. Muzzleloader = no way at 1.5 miles. Just not enough oomph to get there.

Ballistic trajectory,rather than a straight line. It will hold most of it's momentum.

chairborne: Well let's see, if you take for instance the Hornady 500 grain INterlock FP XTP Mag fired at 3000 fps at about 63 degrees (which most people would describe as "in the air") you get a terminal range at see level of just over a mile and a half. At that point this half inch wide projectile still has about as much foot pounds energy as a 22 lr fired from a pistol and is certainly enough to kill someone.

I don't even want to think about the amount of powder you'd have to use (or the barrel length that it would take to burn it all). A generally accepted 150 gr equivalent load behind a 250 gr SST gives about 2200 fps. Your stats are closer to M33 .50 BMG (2910 fps, 668 gr FMJ in a 45" test barrel).

for subby; part of the self help guide to get his conscience back: