In before Bank v. FCU fight

/makes popcorn
//add carmel

Damn, now where did I put that violin?

You reap what you sow, biatches!

Buy now, since the Federal government will never allow them to fail by giving them unaccounted for billions in taxpayer bailouts, the price can only go up.

So, here's our chance: everyone buy up as much BoA stock as possible and we can all sit in on the shareholders meetings.

Lost Thought 00: Buy now, since the Federal government will never allow them to fail by giving them unaccounted for billions in taxpayer bailouts, the price can only go up.

I know stock advice on fark is usually snarky and sarcastic, but I'm thinking of doing just this.

They pulled the planned fee right before it was going to go into effect, but yeah, fark them.

/But they have ATMs everywhere

Man, I really feel bad aboutHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

They may not be too big to fail, but they might not be too big to buy out (or split out), at which point the stock will go to $0.

macross87: In before Bank v. FCU fight

/makes popcorn
//add carmel

Carmel... California? And how would you fit the whole town in your popcorn?

Die, BoA. Die.

Die, Die, Die, Die, Die.

DIAF.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: So, here's our chance: everyone buy up as much BoA stock as possible and we can all sit in on the shareholders meetings.

So much this
at least one of the OWS crouds has to have a stash of cash they are sitting on....

moefuggenbrew: Lost Thought 00: Buy now, since the Federal government will never allow them to fail by giving them unaccounted for billions in taxpayer bailouts, the price can only go up.

I know stock advice on fark is usually snarky and sarcastic, but I'm thinking of doing just this.

I'd caution against that. I don't really have any good evidence other than a gut feeling, but BoA may not be too big to fail. If things go to hell the wrong way in Europe, BoA's position is precarious enough here that they may go under. Banks in general are beaten down right now and will stay that way most likely. I'd pick a bank whose future is a bit brighter. As always, risk vs reward...if BoA survives then their upside potential is larger than other banks, but other banks are safer. We were warned back in 2008 about zombie banks after what Japan experienced in their lost decade. BoA is most definitely a zombie bank.

Um, 5.15 is higher than 5 subby.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: So, here's our chance: everyone buy up as much BoA stock as possible and we can all sit in on the shareholders meetings.

This is an intriguing idea.

Fuggin Bizzy: My mortgage is with BoA. They frequently tell me how they appreciate my business, and they're glad I'm a customer. It wasn't my idea. I got the mortgage with a local bank, who sold it to Countrywide, who got bought by BoA.

I'm in the process of refinancing with another bank. It'll be a lot cheaper, and I'll be out from under BoA. I can't wait.

Same thing happened to me - only after I did the refi with another bank, the mortgage ended up sold back to BoA...

Sun Worshiping Dog Launcher: a gut feeling, but BoA may not be too big to fail

The second largest bank holding company in America by assets with connections to nearly every Fortune 500 company, one of the largest single companies in the country in any sector, and with only three equally sized competitors isn't too big to fail?

Yea...

Sun Worshiping Dog Launcher: BoA is most definitely a zombie bank.

Possibly, but if you're looking for a risky asset with a high potential payoff, I think it's a fairly good bet. You have to remember that although BAC is taking a lot of the heat, the other major banks still all have the same fundamental problems. I bought in at around $7/share fully expecting lethargic performance for possibly years while the bank completely restructures itself and takes advantage of the inevitable recovery.

It's one of my riskier holdings, to be sure, but I just have grave doubts that it's going anywhere. I think in the near term anybody thinking about buying in right now should be worried about the possibility of a reverse split. I could see them doing a split to kick the share price up which means people holding the stock already (like me) have that much more to continue to lose before any recovery takes place.

Hint to business management.
You have to "show" that you care about your clients, or at least set policy that masks your contempt.

While they may be ignorant or stupid...even a dumb animal doesn't like getting shafted
and they will move away from the pain.

Service - good
Lose money - bad

/figure it out geniuses...OH, too late.

jbuist: MrBigglesworth: Um, 5.15 is higher than 5 subby.

Yesterday's close was 4.96.

According to Scottrade yesterdays close was 5.17.

Too big to fail, but not too big to suck.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: So, here's our chance: everyone buy up as much BoA stock as possible and we can all sit in on the shareholders meetings.

All you need is one share to attend (and speak at) the annual meeting.

MrBigglesworth: According to Scottrade yesterdays close was 5.17.

This headline is about 36 hours too late to make much sense. It closed Monday below $5.

Couldn't have happened to a better group of banking dickheads...

HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE!

I've been watching it weekly and masturbating to the farking price. I'm not joking.

For an established company with a plummeting stock price, I get this:
1) Not being able to raise capital (easily) by issuing stock
2) Stock options are worthless
3) Shareholders are pissed off

But how, exactly, is stock price in any way tied to the balance sheet? The system's already in place. Purchasing, payroll and benefits are all paid for through existing revenue streams, hopefully with a little left over for profit. The company gets capital when stock is first sold. A non-bank might have a harder time borrowing money, but modern banks aren't reserve constrained and the Fed has been bending over backwards to lend banks money.

If they're insolvent it's one thing, but how does a low stock price alone ruin a company?

Dear Santa,
If this is true I will not want for another thing this holiday season.

xoxo,
xsarien

P.S. Except general health, happiness, etc.

Dear God,

Thank you for answering our prayers.

Sincerely,
Everybody that hates BoA

Current share price: $5.23

http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3ABAC (new window)

I've held stock in companies in worse shape than this. (No, I don't own BAC. With one exception, all my savings are in mutual funds. I don't have he time anymore to research, so I'm just letting some other type-A money manager do it for me... or a computer, in my Vanguard funds)

Oh lord, a reverse stock split would just give it more room to go down. That would really depress the price further.

Smeggy Smurf: Dear God,

Thank you for answering our prayers.

Sincerely,
Everybody that hates BoA

Can wells fargo be next, please???

kingoomieiii: OOOBAAAAAAAMAAAAAAAAA

/Their stock price was propped up by bleeding their customers
//If a major source of income for you is so damaging that a law is created OUTLAWING IT, you really don't get to complain when your income is reduced

Eh.

Being exposed to ML and Countrywide really screwed their pooch.

Honestly though, if they ever got audited by the FED, they;re really be screwed. To big to fail is too big to know what the left hand is doing from the right. There's a lot of problems internally that you'd never hear about, and the executive management ignores. They have a culture of not rocking the boat. Too bad it's sinking.

Phony_Soldier: Smeggy Smurf: Dear God,

Thank you for answering our prayers.

Sincerely,
Everybody that hates BoA

Can wells fargo be next, please???

M&T next....please!

So, here's our chance: everyone buy up as much BoA stock as possible and we can all sit in on the shareholders meetings.

What exactly do you think shareholders have the power to do at those meetings? Vote on CEO/board pay/bonuses? Nope Have any say in company policy? Nope Corporate america has successfully taken the bit in their teeth. There is no control.

FTFA: Bank of America has already said it plans to lay off 30,000 workers over the next several years.

in other words, if you work for BoA and have any talent whatsoever, jump ship now.

FTFA:In late August, the bank finally appeared to catch a break when legendary value investor Warren Buffett purchased $5 billion of its preferred shares. Despite giving the stock the "Buffett bounce," shares of dropped more than 28% since Buffett announced his investment.

What would happen if Warren dumped all his BoA stock suddenly? could it start a sell-off? What happens when a company's stock price goes to $0?

dragonchild: For an established company with a plummeting stock price, I get this:
1) Not being able to raise capital (easily) by issuing stock
2) Stock options are worthless
3) Shareholders are pissed off

But how, exactly, is stock price in any way tied to the balance sheet? The system's already in place. Purchasing, payroll and benefits are all paid for through existing revenue streams, hopefully with a little left over for profit. The company gets capital when stock is first sold. A non-bank might have a harder time borrowing money, but modern banks aren't reserve constrained and the Fed has been bending over backwards to lend banks money.

If they're insolvent it's one thing, but how does a low stock price alone ruin a company?

Easy/flippant answer: you're reversing cause & effect. The market is assumed to be rational & have perfect information, so a low stock-price is a symptom of impending ruin, rather than its cause.

Way more complex answer: In general I'd agree with you (market = mob of people, mobs arent exactly renowned for their rationality or knowledge) but "1) Not being able to raise capital (easily) by issuing stock" + Basel III = potential problems for BOA.

BOA is probably going to have to increase its Tier 1 capital from about 6.75%-7% to 9.5% by 2019 ("probably" because the Fed could change the implementation date or the actual % target). According to S&P's estimates, BOA is about $102 billion off that mark. Link (new window)

According to BOA, they'll be able to get there without having to sell new stock (by selling assets, reducing balance sheet & retaining earnings). But it'll probably be a tight call, and they won't have much spare cash to chase any good opportunities that show up. If the Fed mandates an earlier move, or there's another global recession, then they'll have trouble.

Even if the economy & Fed move as expected, other countries/banks are going to reach the Basel III targets much earlier ... that could mean BOA's risk rating falls (not because its own risk-status has changed, but because all the other banks have improved, so BOA is now relatively riskier.) Higher risk-rating = higher funding costs (though the Fed would probably let them access cheap money, because they're "too big to fail").

To further complicate things, the major shareholders of BOA are other banks & bank-holding companies. As BOA's share price drops that means those companies now have less Tier 1 capital to meet their own Basel requirements ... so they might have to issue new stocks. But the major shareholders of those banks are, again, more financial companies!

NotARocketScientist:
FTFA:In late August, the bank finally appeared to catch a break when legendary value investor Warren Buffett purchased $5 billion of its preferred shares. Despite giving the stock the "Buffett bounce," shares of dropped more than 28% since Buffett announced his investment.

What would happen if Warren dumped all his BoA stock suddenly? could it start a sell-off? What happens when a company's stock price goes to $0?

Buffet didn't buy normal (common) shares, he bought special (preferred) shares. They're not the $5 shares you can buy on the stock exchange, it's more like a complicated loan. Each single share cost him $100,000 ... but pays a guaranteed 6% dividend (and comes with other sweeteners, like options to buy common BOA shares at $7.14/share for the next 10 years). I can't think of any reason for Buffett to dump that kind of a deal. The common share price "bounced" because people hear that Buffett invested, so they think the company is a good long-term bet. The problem is that Buffett's "bet" isn't the same deal regular people can get.

When the stock price of a solvent company drops they're usually subject to a take-over bid. Would you buy the entire BOA corp for $100? Unless they'd already declared bankruptcy, I'd take that deal. (I'd be beaten to it though. Heck, if the market cap dropped under $1 billion, Google might decide they want to buy a bank, just for the lolz.)

Yet another good time for me to suggest my requirement that all stocks auto-split or auto-reverse split to keep prices between 10 and 100 dollars.

Easy part: If your stock closes above 100$ over a weekend, it should double in number and half in value.

Hard Part : If your stock closes below 10$ on a Friday, Your position should be halved with the recorded price doubled, with the resulting half-shares appearing in the form of immediate buy-back at the closing price.

/I wants me some apple, but I don't have $397.85
/also : All stock should be voting stock.

Everyone wants BofA to die die die and I can understand that - they do a lot of evil things. If they did die though - the people you hate won't be the ones hurt, just the poor middle class slobs who work there. People who are, for the most part, like you.

The top level clowns who set the evil policies in the first place are all safe from this danger behind guaranteed bonuses and general wealth that allows them to survive something like this.

The problem with a risk/reward financial system is in this case the folks taking the risks aren't risking their own livelyhood but someone else's