Out creepin' 'round the cowsh*t in the middle of the night doesn't sound very wise to me. . . .

More breaking news:

ZEUS was actually left-handed!

Doesn't matter if a different story is signed by Jesus himself. This story is so engraved in the minds of believers it will never change.

Cue the Life of Brian screencaps....

He's not the messiah!

Sounds like Christmas with my family, subby how did you know? Dad?

aaaannnnnnndddd.......

Which Jebus birth story is the correct one? Luke's, Mark's, Matthew's or John's?

// yes, I know this is a trick question

MicroE: Doesn't matter if a different story is signed by Jesus himself. This story is so engraved in the minds of believers it will never change.

It would mean a lot to me and as non-believer though. I doubt that Jesus ever existed and proof of his existence would be pretty cool. He wasn't always rainbows and buttercups but given the times in which he supposedly lived he seems like he would be a pretty great guy to have a beer with.

I think a human Jesus would be a much more compelling story than any son of god ever could. Imagine a really progressive guy who changes the world and never claimed to have divinity or anything then all this crap gets added to his story and a crazy cult grows around that story and further revises it. Imagine if that guy was Charles Manson. If he were real we should be thankful he was a decent sort of guy and not a monster.

"eighth century document reveals"

so eight hundred years later somebody found the guest list?

That's what I never understood about the whole story. Ok, so these three wise men come from the east to greet the Messiah... however, the east's love of Jesus is never mentioned again in the rest of the various stories about his life. So did they get there and were they all like, "Oh, it's a human baby in a feed trough... um.... well, we're not going to carry all this shiat back home so... ahhhh.... Merry Christmas!". And then they leave.

Jesus never visits them later in his life. He never seems to do anything that would benefit wherever they came from. They don't come back when he's 5 to see how he does on his first day of Kindergarten It's just seems like an odd non sequitur to make it such a part of the mythology.

Egoy3k: MicroE: Doesn't matter if a different story is signed by Jesus himself. This story is so engraved in the minds of believers it will never change.

It would mean a lot to me and as non-believer though. I doubt that Jesus ever existed and proof of his existence would be pretty cool. He wasn't always rainbows and buttercups but given the times in which he supposedly lived he seems like he would be a pretty great guy to have a beer with.

---

I think a human Jesus would be a much more compelling story than any son of god ever could. Imagine a really progressive guy who changes the world and never claimed to have divinity or anything then all this crap gets added to his story and a crazy cult grows around that story and further revises it. Imagine if that guy was Charles Manson. If he were real we should be thankful he was a decent sort of guy and not a monster.

As a non-believer I'm pretty certain Jesus the man existed. Historicity of Jesus (new window)

Although a few scholars have questioned the existence of Jesus as an actual historical figure,[4] most scholars involved with historical Jesus research believe his existence, but not the supernatural claims associated with him, can be established using documentary and other evidence.[5] Most contemporary scholars agree that Jesus was a Jew who was regarded as a teacher and healer, that he was baptized by John the Baptist, and was crucified in Jerusalem on the orders of the Roman Prefect of Judaea, Pontius Pilate, on the charge of sedition against the Roman Empire.

Merry Farkin' Christmas, Farkers! Woof!!

laurens: "eighth century document reveals"

so eight hundred years later somebody found the guest list?

They used it as a list to write their new years resolutions on, and stuck it in the back of a cookbook... you know how those things get forgotten about? It was lost until this week, someone went to check for a scrap of paper to write this year's resolutions on....

/Mary eventually lost those "pregnancy pounds" she wanted to.

So the new translation is more accurate than the translations of last century, which was more accurate than the translations than the century before that, which was ...

/call me when Jesus shows up
//otherwise STFU already

MicroE: Egoy3k: MicroE: Doesn't matter if a different story is signed by Jesus himself. This story is so engraved in the minds of believers it will never change.

It would mean a lot to me and as non-believer though. I doubt that Jesus ever existed and proof of his existence would be pretty cool. He wasn't always rainbows and buttercups but given the times in which he supposedly lived he seems like he would be a pretty great guy to have a beer with.

---

I think a human Jesus would be a much more compelling story than any son of god ever could. Imagine a really progressive guy who changes the world and never claimed to have divinity or anything then all this crap gets added to his story and a crazy cult grows around that story and further revises it. Imagine if that guy was Charles Manson. If he were real we should be thankful he was a decent sort of guy and not a monster.

As a non-believer I'm pretty certain Jesus the man existed. Historicity of Jesus (new window)



The Josephus thing is a pretty well-known forgery.

Mercutio74: That's what I never understood about the whole story. Ok, so these three wise men come from the east to greet the Messiah... however, the east's love of Jesus is never mentioned again in the rest of the various stories about his life. So did they get there and were they all like, "Oh, it's a human baby in a feed trough... um.... well, we're not going to carry all this shiat back home so... ahhhh.... Merry Christmas!". And then they leave.

Jesus never visits them later in his life. He never seems to do anything that would benefit wherever they came from. They don't come back when he's 5 to see how he does on his first day of Kindergarten It's just seems like an odd non sequitur to make it such a part of the mythology.

The Gospel of Biff says otherwise.

Mercutio74: So did they get there and were they all like, "Oh, it's a human baby in a feed trough... um.... well, we're not going to carry all this shiat back home so... ahhhh.... Merry Christmas!". And then they leave.

This did cause me to laugh aloud and for that, as the Holly King enjoys his last day as lord of creation on this Wintery Solstice, I do thank ye.

Myths & Legends require such devices as foreign kings to make proclamations and shiat. The whole Jesus story is a kickass re-telling, or "re-imagining" of some great Egyptian and Mesopotamian hero myths. Imagine what they could have done with the story if they'd had the CGI and the 3D.

In my church we were smart enough to notice no number of wise men was ever given, just three types of gifts.


Stupid everyone!

AngryJailhouseFistfark: Mercutio74: So did they get there and were they all like, "Oh, it's a human baby in a feed trough... um.... well, we're not going to carry all this shiat back home so... ahhhh.... Merry Christmas!". And then they leave.

This did cause me to laugh aloud and for that, as the Holly King enjoys his last day as lord of creation on this Wintery Solstice, I do thank ye.

Myths & Legends require such devices as foreign kings to make proclamations and shiat. The whole Jesus story is a kickass re-telling, or "re-imagining" of some great Egyptian and Mesopotamian hero myths. Imagine what they could have done with the story if they'd had the CGI and the 3D.

"The Passion of the Christ" in 3D?

No, thanks. It was shiatty enough the first go-around.

Don't really need a new translation for that.

AngryJailhouseFistfark: This did cause me to laugh aloud and for that, as the Holly King enjoys his last day as lord of creation on this Wintery Solstice, I do thank ye.

I made someone who's named after a violent rape act chuckle... that in itself is a Christmas Miracle^TM!!! Huzzah! Now I must go assemble my Festivus Pole.

/It's new, btw, my old one broke last year during the feats of strength

From the East we bring Tires, Batteries, and Anti-Freeze, selah.

Sarah Palin's Conscience: "The Passion of the Christ" in 3D?

No, thanks. It was shiatty enough the first go-around.

CSB.... literally....

Back when it first came out, my brother saw it and I asked him if it was worth seeing. His response.... "That depends, would you like to see what Jesus' ribs looked like?"

Old news is old.

No translations of the Bible ever mentioned 3 people, only 3 gifts in Matthew 2:1 (new window). From there, we sort of interpreted 3 people, but there is older Roman artwork depicting larger groups of people, entourages of people.

In other news, Romeo and Juliet never happened, Mrs. Macbeth may not have been the devil, George Washington probably had slaves to chop down cherry trees for him, and Aristotle and Confucius never said half the things they said. I like the stories as they are.

keloyd: Old news is old.

No translations of the Bible ever mentioned 3 people, only 3 gifts in Matthew 2:1 (new window). From there, we sort of interpreted 3 people, but there is older Roman artwork depicting larger groups of people, entourages of people.

In other news, Romeo and Juliet never happened, Mrs. Macbeth may not have been the devil, George Washington probably had slaves to chop down cherry trees for him, and Aristotle and Confucius never said half the things they said. I like the stories as they are.

Romeo an Juliet not real? THE HELL YOU SAY!

I was at her house. I touched her breast.

I has proovs.

/thanks, Cpt. Obvious

Some 8 centuries later?

Can you imagine how current historical events will be interpreted in another 800 years?

One thing I have long suspected is that (in the future) the Rev. Sun Myung Moon will have his own version of the "new testament" dedicated to him. After all, rather than a few hundred followers who supposedly followed Jesus, Moon has millions. In addition, his adherents believe that he has performed all kinds of miracles including raising the dead.

Just look at how Mormonism is still gathering adherents at a fairly healthy clip. I have little doubt that Moon (who has claimed he is also the Son of God) and who has a foundation of vast wealth and power at his disposal already has plans for his followers to follow insuring that belief will not die with him.

Happy Hours: Are you sure?

Link (new window)

Hmmmm... I hadn't heard about any of that. Looks like I might have some reading to do. Thanks.

Though judging from the evidence provided within the actual Wiki article, it looks to have the same amount of evidence as the authors of The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail had... which is to say, exactly enough to be interesting. It does make me wonder why no one bothered to mention all this in the bible though. As it is, they pad the New Testament out with Paul's sanctimonious bullshiat.

Mercutio74: AngryJailhouseFistfark: This did cause me to laugh aloud and for that, as the Holly King enjoys his last day as lord of creation on this Wintery Solstice, I do thank ye.

I made someone who's named after a violent rape act chuckle... that in itself is a Christmas MiracleTM!!! Huzzah! Now I must go assemble my Festivus Pole.

/It's new, btw, my old one broke last year during the feats of strength

...not just any rape, mind you, but prison rape, which has a Very Special Magic all it's own. I always imagine it with Air Supply's "I'm All Out of Love" playing on the P.A. system and the Fister hums it softly to the Fistee.

AngryJailhouseFistfark: ...not just any rape, mind you, but prison rape, which has a Very Special Magic all it's own. I always imagine it with Air Supply's "I'm All Out of Love" playing on the P.A. system and the Fister hums it softly to the Fistee.

It's nice to see that even with being incarcerated, you're still a romantic at heart.

Wot? The three wise men ... come from China? And, how'd they get there, then? High-speed rail?

Did you hear about the redneck who put firefighter hats on the wise men in the nativity scene?

He heard the pastor say the wise men came from "afar."

MicroE: Although a few scholars have questioned the existence of Jesus as an actual historical figure,[4] most scholars involved with historical Jesus research believe his existence, but not the supernatural claims associated with him, can be established using documentary and other evidence.[5] Most contemporary scholars agree that Jesus was a Jew who was regarded as a teacher and healer, that he was baptized by John the Baptist, and was crucified in Jerusalem on the orders of the Roman Prefect of Judaea, Pontius Pilate, on the charge of sedition against the Roman Empire.

The first Christians didn't either. He didn't have magical powers until after the second Jewish uprising arond 200 A.D. and the
Council of Nicea when the Roman politacl machine adopted pagan practices to assimilate everyone

keloyd: Confucius never said half the things they said. I like the stories as they are.

Wait a second! Are you implying Confucious never said "He who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with smelly finger?" WTF!?

You mean the translation of the completely made up story that was written many years after Jesus lived? What does it matter? Let's just say they were space aliens. It's all the same.

AngryJailhouseFistfark: Mercutio74: So did they get there and were they all like, "Oh, it's a human baby in a feed trough... um.... well, we're not going to carry all this shiat back home so... ahhhh.... Merry Christmas!". And then they leave.

This did cause me to laugh aloud and for that, as the Holly King enjoys his last day as lord of creation on this Wintery Solstice, I do thank ye.

Myths & Legends require such devices as foreign kings to make proclamations and shiat. The whole Jesus story is a kickass re-telling, or "re-imagining" of some great Egyptian and Mesopotamian hero myths. Imagine what they could have done with the story if they'd had the CGI and the 3D.

Eat this (new window)
/Link (new window)

Yes we know. No Christmas or birthday presents. (new window)

We need some boots on the ground if we are going to win this war!

Eighth-century script claims the ancient 'Magi' stargazers came from 'as far away as China'

Were they plumbum by the star?

The Bible never said there were three wise men and I was never taught that there were just 3. We've always understood that there was a group, the exact number not specified. Also the wise guys visit may have happened awhile after Jesus' birth (it just says "after Jesus was born..."). The Bible does not put them at the manger on the night He was born. The three wise men were just a cute thing for manger scenes and stuff.

This is what I was taught as a kid. There may be a new document with more info, but the fact that there were more than three dudes is not news.

MaxBliss: Did you hear about the redneck who put firefighter hats on the wise men in the nativity scene?

He heard the pastor say the wise men came from "afar."

Have you no mercy?

So much for putative "thought'.

A link on that page:



Real meaning of Christmas lost on today's children as nearly quarter believe 25th December is Simon Cowell's birthday (new window)

And it seems most of the people commenting still believe that Jesus was actually born on Dec. 25th.

MicroE: Although a few scholars have questioned the existence of Jesus as an actual historical figure,[4] most scholars involved with historical Jesus research believe his existence, but not the supernatural claims associated with him, can be established using documentary and other evidence.[5] Most contemporary scholars agree that Jesus was a Jew who was regarded as a teacher and healer, that he was baptized by John the Baptist, and was crucified in Jerusalem on the orders of the Roman Prefect of Judaea, Pontius Pilate, on the charge of sedition against the Roman Empire.

I'm not trying to start a flame war here but I have deep reservations about how impartial the type of historian who studies Jesus could actually be regarding Jesus' existence. The very article you linked showed a great deal of skepticism as well.

That said. I'm not sure, and given the time frame it's doubtful that any new evidence will be found. I still stand by my earlier point. In the times in which he lived he would have been quite an impressive guy and the sort of man that you would want to have a discussion with. A lot of other people in that time frame would probably make you hate the human race.

Mercutio74: That's what I never understood about the whole story. Ok, so these three wise men come from the east to greet the Messiah... however, the east's love of Jesus is never mentioned again in the rest of the various stories about his life. So did they get there and were they all like, "Oh, it's a human baby in a feed trough... um.... well, we're not going to carry all this shiat back home so... ahhhh.... Merry Christmas!". And then they leave.

Jesus never visits them later in his life. He never seems to do anything that would benefit wherever they came from. They don't come back when he's 5 to see how he does on his first day of Kindergarten It's just seems like an odd non sequitur to make it such a part of the mythology.

Even in the short segment in the Bible there's no date attributed to when they came. Most biblical scholars I've spoken to or read seem to think that they were almost certainly were not at the manger and came probably a year or two later. That idea comes from the subsequent passage where Herod has all boys under two in Bethlehem killed to get rid of the perceived threat.