Nope, you're wrong, submitter. The person the miracle is being attributed to isn't a saint yet. Before that happens a certain number of miracles have to be shown to be the result of the person's intersession. If this person achieves sainthood she'll be America's first indigenous saint.



St. Frances Xavier Cabrini was the first American citizen to be canonized. Elizabeth Ann Seton was the first American born saint to be canonized.

Wikipedia: Mortality rates have been noted as high as 73 percent if left untreated.

Considering the kid received intense treatment, presumably massive intravenous doses of antibiotics and skin grafts, among other things, there might be an explanation after all. Or it could have been mysterious rays from the relic.

"There is no doubt in me or my husband's mind that a miracle definitely took place," Jake's mother, Elsa Finkbonner, told msnbc.com on Tuesday. "There were far too many things that could have and should have gone wrong with his illness. The doctors went through every avenue they could to save his life and he survived. It's a miracle that all of the other things that could have gone wrong, didn't."

So what she's saying is: the doctors went through every avenue they could to save his life and he survived.. Therefore it's a miracle brought on by a 17th century Native American, has nothing to do with modern medicine.

Jake's face-off with death started at age 5 ...

Poor choice of words.

From left, Stan, Cartman, Kenny, and Kyle.

I would consider this a "miracle" if his skin grew back and it looked like he never contracted the disease.

As it is - this is just another case of giving some religious entity credit for the work of dedicated medical doctors.

sweetmelissa31: "There is no doubt in me or my husband's mind that a miracle definitely took place," Jake's mother, Elsa Finkbonner, told msnbc.com on Tuesday. "There were far too many things that could have and should have gone wrong with his illness. The doctors went through every avenue they could to save his life and he survived. It's a miracle that all of the other things that could have gone wrong, didn't."

So what she's saying is: the doctors went through every avenue they could to save his life and he survived.. Therefore it's a miracle brought on by a 17th century Native American, has nothing to do with modern medicine.

You sound...skeptical.

Jesus Christ... Something to think about the next time I start whining about my problems...

TheGrayCat: As it is - this is just another case of giving some religious entity credit for the work of dedicated medical doctors.

Agreed. The only miracle here is that man has developed the knowledge and expertise to save this kid's life.

sweetmelissa31: [msnbcmedia.msn.com image 380x274]
From left, Stan, Cartman, Kenny, and Kyle.

Why the hatefulness? You must have some real sadness in your life to mock a disfigured child like that.

"As for Jake, "he's doing fantastic," his mother says. "He's an excellent student, a typical, happy 11-year-old-boy who plays video games and punches his sister in the head and makes her cry.""

Heheheh. My type of kid.

"As for the nonbelievers, Elsa is quick to explain that attributing Jake's miracle survival to a future saint is in no way a discredit to the doctors who treated him.
"We know Jake would not be here if those doctors were not so fabulous," she says.
But she also notes that the doctors themselves told the Vatican interviewers they don't know how to account for the boy's turn of fortune."

So there's that. The doctors are the ones that told the family to pray, because they didn't know what else to do for the kid. I'm not saying that a beatified native american who was facially disfigured from smallpox saved the kid... also a facially disfigured native american, I might add... but who knows. I know the MD's on the scene have no explanation for it, so any rationalizations I hear here on fark aren't going to sway me either way.

Nabb1: Why the hatefulness? You must have some real sadness in your life to mock a disfigured child like that.

Why so serious?

BurnShrike: Nabb1: sweetmelissa31: [msnbcmedia.msn.com image 380x274]
From left, Stan, Cartman, Kenny, and Kyle.

Why the hatefulness? You must have some real sadness in your life to mock a disfigured child like that.

She's not sad! She's sweet. Didn't you read her username?

Also, she's pretty cute and intelligent, so that's always a plus.

I am sure it is as you say. Making fun of scarred kids just isn't my bag, but whatever creams your Twinkie, I guess.

sweetmelissa31: [msnbcmedia.msn.com image 380x274]
From left, Stan, Cartman, Kenny, and Kyle.

That kid will never get a date.

:-(

sweetmelissa31: Nabb1: Why the hatefulness? You must have some real sadness in your life to mock a disfigured child like that.

Why so serious?

I didn't take it as mocking. I doubt those kids would mind it if you pointed it out.

sweetmelissa31: Nabb1: Why the hatefulness? You must have some real sadness in your life to mock a disfigured child like that.

Why so serious?

Do you know how I got these scars?

xanadian: Do you know how I got these scars?

Haha, you know I didn't even think of that when I wrote that. I guess that makes me even more callous :\

I would be pissed the fark off if I was the doctor responsible for saving that kid. All my hard work and some dead person gets all the credit? What the fark? How about we actually credit the doctor!

BurnShrike: I don't get it. But I'm getting the feeling that you might not be so sweet after all.

It's the Heath Ledger Joker. Still sweet, I think.

How about canonize the farking doctors who saved the boy's life?

GAT_00: I would be pissed the fark off if I was the doctor responsible for saving that kid. All my hard work and some dead person gets all the credit? What the fark? How about we actually credit the doctor!

Can I get an amen?!

Nabb1: sweetmelissa31: [msnbcmedia.msn.com image 380x274]
From left, Stan, Cartman, Kenny, and Kyle.

Why the hatefulness? You must have some real sadness in your life to mock a disfigured child like that.

Kenny, the character most famous for returning from death and getting on with his life. If he'd said "Jimmy", yeah, you'd have a complaint.

Why can't you have fun?

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: I know the MD's on the scene have no explanation for it, so any rationalizations I hear here on fark aren't going to sway me either way.

We don't have crazy scanning equipment like on Star Trek. Often, a doctor's picture of what's going on inside of a body is a series of educated guesses based on external tests and medical precedent. "Exploratory surgery" sounds ridiculous, but it's often the only way to tell what the hell has gone wrong inside someone.

It's not so unusual for someone to turn around and get better. That can happen for any number of medically-valid reasons. "Hey, kid, do you mind staying here an additional month, so we can perform more tests on you and figure out WHY you're better? Oh, no, it won't help you, but we want to close this case out with a few paragraphs of something other than "Patient unexpectedly recovered".

They said 75% mortality rate, right? So... 25% of cases live? That's a pretty high 'miracle' rate.

kingoomieiii: They said 75% mortality rate, right? So... 25% of cases live? That's a pretty high 'miracle' rate.

Uh, use hyperbole much? My sister had necrotizing facitis, and the doctors weren't telling my parents to pray and that there wasn't anything else they could do for her. Instead of listening to your gut, read the damn article and listen to what the doctors said. The kid was on his last legs. Not everyone who gets the disease gets that close to death.

kingoomieiii: How about canonize the farking doctors who saved the boy's life?

"We know Jake would not be here if those doctors were not so fabulous," she says.

Not all religious people are crazy, dude. They know damned well the doctors were instrumental in keeping their kid alive.

For a fellow dubbed "the miracle man" those legs look rather artificial.

Man, Catholicism is fascinating. I don't know that much about how the whole becoming a saint thing works. But....that's cray.

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: Uh, use hyperbole much? My sister had necrotizing facitis, and the doctors weren't telling my parents to pray and that there wasn't anything else they could do for her. Instead of listening to your gut, read the damn article and listen to what the doctors said. The kid was on his last legs. Not everyone who gets the disease gets that close to death.

That's right. This kid was very close to death, and the doctors had thrown every treatment they knew of at him all at once. No single treatment they tried could satisfactorily explain the turnaround.

Therefore, God.

/QED

sweetmelissa31: xanadian: Do you know how I got these scars?

Haha, you know I didn't even think of that when I wrote that. I guess that makes me even more callous :\

Welcome to the club. *nuks*

Non-scientific poll, but 88% believe in miracles?

I suspect this story is being e-mailed to a bunch of religious nutters.

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: Not everyone who gets the disease gets that close to death.

And not everyone that gets that close to death ends up dying.

"Stop having such a closed mind and believe what I believe".

Gordian Cipher: No single treatment they tried could satisfactorily explain the turnaround.

Which really just means "We don't know what combination of the extremely expensive treatments we tried actually ended up saving him".

So, yeah, therefore, God.

kingoomieiii: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: Not everyone who gets the disease gets that close to death.

And not everyone that gets that close to death ends up dying.

"Stop having such a closed mind and believe what I believe".

wink

That's the funny thing about Miracles they tend to only happen to those that believe in them, which can be chalked up a case of "confirmation Bias" or based on the subtle theological point that if a supernatural event provided such unvoidable proff of the existence of God that it compelled you to believe, then free will would be meaningless.

Fer example I believe that the fact that my sister is alive and well today is nothing short of a miracle (of the divineintervention woo-woo kind)

Here's why:

When she was 22 she graduated college and went to Pittsburgh to take her nursing boards (odd reasons why since she went to school in Ohio and lived in VA), While there she she became violently ill one night and quickly recognized she was Very sick and got herself to the ER.

When she got there she rapidly became delirous and then delusional and had outbursts accompanied by almost hysterical strength where it was taking 4-5 nurses and DR to restrain her, and after a few hours she lapsed into a coma.

The working diagnosis was a bad batch of PCP or smething similar despite assurances from every one who knew her that she'd never touched the stuff. meanwhile her brain was swelling and her coma getting worse.

It just so happened that the attending DR that took over on the night shift had just finished his pediatric rounds at Pittsburgh Children's hospital. It also happens that PCH is the world-leading research center for a fairly obscure childhood disease called Reye's Syndrome (which can be brought on by taking aspirin when you have flu-like symptoms for reasons that are still unknown)

As the attending read her chart, based on his recent experiences, he thunk to himself, "Well if she wasn't ten years too old to have it, I'd swear this was a case of Reye's syndrome". So just for giggles he ordered a test that would come back positive if it was Reye's. It did, and my sis was immediately rushed to PCH where she became the oldest patient at the hospital and the oldest survivor of Reye's Syndrome known to medical literature.

Docs estimate that had she gone untreated for another few hours she would have had at least permanent severe brain damage, and more than likely have died. Instead she got the bleeding edge of advanced treatment for Reye's and came out of her coma completely unharmed about two weeks later.

Now so far you may be sleptical about the whole divine intervention thing but here comes the woo-woo part: During the ordeal, my dad's insrance company called HIM to tell him that since she was attending a prep course for her nursing boards, she technically still qualfied as a student, and thus still covered under his policy meaning her $100k+ hospital bill would be fully paid for.

An Insurance company helping someone? I mean C'mon! like That ever happens