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(Independent)   Scientists claim to have discovered the secret of the Turin Shroud. Their conclusion? They're not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens   (independent.co.uk) divider line 320
    More: Unlikely, Turin Shroud, scientists claim, chemistries, government scientists, The Independent, Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, Politics of Italy, GCSE  
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20966 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Dec 2011 at 4:05 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-12-20 12:35:51 PM  
chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com
 
2011-12-20 01:04:04 PM  
cdn.bleacherreport.com
 
2011-12-20 01:16:10 PM  
Italian government scientists

Stopped reading.
 
2011-12-20 01:52:46 PM  
Dried sweat filtered through swamp gas and reflected by the light of Venus.

/Duh.
 
2011-12-20 01:53:07 PM  

gilgigamesh: Italian government scientists

Stopped reading.


gilgigamesh: Italian government scientists

Stopped reading.


wwwdelivery.superstock.com

What an italian scientist may look like
 
2011-12-20 02:22:53 PM  
troll.me
 
2011-12-20 02:23:54 PM  
Oh, just give them their f***ing miracle.
 
2011-12-20 02:53:52 PM  
Personally I think it was caused when somebody used it to wipe up a spilled beer and threw it in a corner for the next 2000 years.
 
2011-12-20 03:06:24 PM  
OK, that was f**king stupid.
 
2011-12-20 03:40:22 PM  
This is why I wash my laundry with "Immaculata Plus." Keeps your whites their whitest, and is guaranteed to remove stubborn ectoplasm stains.
 
2011-12-20 03:42:44 PM  
they only managed the effect by scorching equivalent linen material with high-intensity ultra violet lasers, undermining the arguments of other research, they say, which claims the Turin Shroud is a medieval hoax.

What?!?
 
2011-12-20 04:08:06 PM  
First of all, carbon-dating has proved the SoT is only like 1200 years old or something, nowhere near 2000 years. Secondly, it's a goddamn shroud, something a person is buried with - wtf is it doing above ground now? Did Jesus roll out of his grave and say, "here hold this for me" to the nearest follower?

Thirdly, stfu.
 
2011-12-20 04:08:50 PM  
Scientists, or Scientologists?
 
2011-12-20 04:09:24 PM  

Sybarite: they only managed the effect by scorching equivalent linen material with high-intensity ultra violet lasers, undermining the arguments of other research, they say, which claims the Turin Shroud is a medieval hoax.

What?!?


They had lasers in the medieval period?
 
2011-12-20 04:09:36 PM  

gopher321: Did Jesus roll out of his grave and say, "here hold this for me" to the nearest follower?


Um, well...that is how the story goes.
 
2011-12-20 04:10:24 PM  
Nice. At last the Catholic church has found a gap for their God to reside in.
 
2011-12-20 04:10:27 PM  

gopher321: First of all, carbon-dating has proved the SoT is only like 1200 years old or something, nowhere near 2000 years. Secondly, it's a goddamn shroud, something a person is buried with - wtf is it doing above ground now? Did Jesus roll out of his grave and say, "here hold this for me" to the nearest follower?

Thirdly, stfu.


Well, you know, there is this story I heard about that...
 
2011-12-20 04:11:35 PM  
The God of the Gaps nods approvingly from his ever-shrinking corner.
 
2011-12-20 04:11:49 PM  
troll.me
 
2011-12-20 04:12:09 PM  

gopher321: Thirdly, stfu.


Word to thine mother.
 
2011-12-20 04:12:11 PM  
RULE #1 OF BEING A SCIENTIST: You cannot, I repeat, CANNOT, explain anything as "supernatural", ever.
 
2011-12-20 04:12:17 PM  
I thought that article was prettu informative.

"Such technology, say researchers from the National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development (Enea), was far beyond the capability of medieval forgers, whom most experts have credited with making the famous relic."

So the medieval peasentry lacked high powered UV lasers. That's crazy. Who would have known?
 
2011-12-20 04:12:54 PM  

gopher321: First of all, carbon-dating has proved the SoT is only like 1200 years old or something, nowhere near 2000 years. Secondly, it's a goddamn shroud, something a person is buried with - wtf is it doing above ground now? Did Jesus roll out of his grave and say, "here hold this for me" to the nearest follower?

Thirdly, stfu.


Actually (I haven't kept up with this in a long time) it was later determined that the samples were accidently taken from a repair patch. It was also determined that the weave of the cloth was consistant with 2000 year old technology. Also, I believe that Jesus was "buried" in an above ground tomb.

Laser thing is still crap IMO
 
2011-12-20 04:13:07 PM  
Ultraviolet light, where does it come from?!
 
2011-12-20 04:13:19 PM  
I think the shroud proves that you should have your shroud changed every 200 years or so, otherwise it is likely to develop stains.

Shroud maintenance 101 ....
 
2011-12-20 04:13:20 PM  

texdent: Sybarite: they only managed the effect by scorching equivalent linen material with high-intensity ultra violet lasers, undermining the arguments of other research, they say, which claims the Turin Shroud is a medieval hoax.

What?!?

They had lasers in the medieval period?


Pfft. Ancient Pakistanis had nuclear weapons.
 
2011-12-20 04:13:29 PM  
So, they're saying just because that's the only way they could think of, that's the only way there is?

Oh, and...

i301.photobucket.com

We'll need 3 Heads-of-John-The-Baptist to fund the trip....

/Hot like a fake relic...
 
2011-12-20 04:19:13 PM  

sinanju: So, they're saying just because that's the only way they could think of, that's the only way there is?


Well, Atheists have to say that's the only way there is, because allowing a supern-... oh, you meant that phrase for the supernatural side of the debate. Sorry.

Nevermind.
Carry on.
 
2011-12-20 04:20:02 PM  
I bet it was forged by the Knights Templar or they paid somebody to make it.
 
2011-12-20 04:21:13 PM  
www.funnymotivationalposters.info
 
2011-12-20 04:21:40 PM  
There are referred to as 'points of contact'. The ark is another one. They trot out these stories several times a year to have something solid people can look at as confirmation of what is usually told to be taken on faith.

Not long ago splinters alleged to have come from noahs ark were very popular as showpieces, but i guess that got cast aside in favor of dodgy aerial pictures of noahs ark, which not too surprisingly are never heard about again.

I think it's fine to believe in god, and will never argue with that, but the Vatican is an evil institution exploiting people with side show crap like this.
 
2011-12-20 04:24:43 PM  
Solar flare?
 
2011-12-20 04:25:23 PM  

gopher321: it's a goddamn shroud, something a person is buried with - wtf is it doing above ground now? Did Jesus roll out of his grave and say, "here hold this for me" to the nearest follower?


Dude. I am not at all religious, but even I know that's the whole point of Easter.
 
2011-12-20 04:26:59 PM  
"The results show that a short and intense burst of UV directional radiation can colour a linen cloth so as to reproduce many of the peculiar characteristics of the body image on the Shroud of Turin," they said.

So, according to this, there was a huge burst of UV light, presumably at the moment of the resurrection, and that this occurred while Jesus was still covered with the shroud, thus giving it the imprint.

Of course, the resurrection occurred in a closed tomb, and it's hard to imagine why there needed to be a burst of UV light to accompany it. And there's no mention of any such light in the Gospels, even though some mention that there were guards hanging around the tomb the whole time who, presumably, would have seen such a bright light (to the extent it could be seen at all outside the tomb, and of course, if it couldn't, what the hell was the point of having the light?):

Matthew 28: An angel comes down, accompanied by a burst of light, and rolls back the stone covering the tomb, but this happens after Jesus has resurrected. In fact, he'd vacated the premises by then:

1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. 2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men. 5 The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay.

Mark 16: Mary finds the tomb already opened. Some random homeless dude is hanging around in there, and tells them Jesus left already. No mention of a burst of light whatsoever.

2 Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb 3 and they asked each other, "Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?" 4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. 5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed. 6 "Don't be alarmed," he said. "You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him.

Luke 24: A hybrid of Matthew and Mark -- the tomb is already open, but empty. People in "clothes like lightning" show up, but Jesus had left already.

1 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5 In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen!

John 20: At least John mentions people finding the burial cloths in particular detail, although he doesn't seem to notice that Jesus' image is scorched onto them. Otherwise, it's just people rummaging around in a big empty tomb. No glamour whatsoever. Also, John thinks the disciples are kind of stupid.

1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!" 3 So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. 4 Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus' head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen. 8 Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. 9 (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.) 10 Then the disciples went back to where they were staying.
 
2011-12-20 04:29:00 PM  
Here's what is wrong with the Shroud of Turin:

1. The man depicted is tall and thin, most men of that time and place were short and stocky;
2. He has a high square forehead, most men of that region had a low rounded forehead;
3. The nose is long and straight, most men of that area and time had broad, flat noses;
4. He wears his hair long in a Prince Valiant/pageboy haircut, most men of that time had short hair, one inch average;
5. He has a long full beard, most men of that region trimmed their beards short, 1/2 inch on average;
6. Both the hair and the beard are straight, most of the men of the region had curly hair;
7. The forearms are too long for the body but the forelegs are proportional, nowhere is it said Jesus suffered any such physical oddity;
8. The image of the front of the body is 1/2 inch taller than the image on the rear, and the curvature of the cloth does not seem to account for this discrepancy.

The Bible does not say anywhere that Jesus looked any different from the average men of his place and time, and we must assume everyone who wrote about him considered him important so they would have mentioned any physical oddity. Since the Roman soldiers who came to take him had to ask who he was, we are forced to conclude, lacking any evidence to the contrary that Jesus did not look any different from any of the men of his place and time.
 
2011-12-20 04:30:21 PM  

This About That: Oh, just give them their f***ing miracle.


No, magic does not exist. Never has, never will.
 
2011-12-20 04:31:41 PM  

Ozarkhawk: I believe that Jesus was "buried" in an above ground tomb.


Yes, so not "buried" per se. Rather, he was "interred". Likewise, the National Parks Service's answer to the old "Who's buried in Grant's tomb?" question is "Nobody," as President and Mrs. Grant's sarcophagi are above ground level in the tomb.
 
2011-12-20 04:32:19 PM  

NallTWD: RULE #1 OF BEING A SCIENTIST: You cannot, I repeat, CANNOT, explain anything as "supernatural", ever.


Corollary:

RULE #2 OF BEING A SCIENTIST: You cannot, I repeat, CANNOT, use the natural world to deny the existence of the supernatural.
 
2011-12-20 04:33:33 PM  
Once again, science begins to catch up with the Urantia Book:
(2024.1) 189:2.8 The mortal remains of Jesus underwent the same natural process of elemental disintegration as characterizes all human bodies on earth except that, in point of time, this natural mode of dissolution was greatly accelerated, hastened to that point where it became well-nigh instantaneous.

This would produce an image, as the time-shifted heat given off by oxidation would become ultra-violet, or perhaps higher frequency radiation, producing an image exactly like that on the shroud. Scientists, according to TFA, have reproduced the image composition with ultraviolet lasers.
 
2011-12-20 04:33:37 PM  

fat boy: Solar flare?


stellarhousepublishing.com
/That doesn't sound very wise to me
 
2011-12-20 04:35:20 PM  
You can't win, Caiaphas. Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
 
2011-12-20 04:35:40 PM  

Modified Cornstarch: sinanju: So, they're saying just because that's the only way they could think of, that's the only way there is?


Well, Atheists have to say that's the only way there is, because allowing a supern-... oh, you meant that phrase for the supernatural side of the debate. Sorry.

Nevermind.
Carry on.


Actually, I was referring to the intense UV light. That's one way to reproduce the results... ok.

If I asked you to lift a hundred tons of water into the air, you might design an airplane or a LTA vehicle... somebody else might design a cloud.
 
2011-12-20 04:38:04 PM  

olddinosaur: Here's what is wrong with the Shroud of Turin:

1. The man depicted is tall and thin, most men of that time and place were short and stocky;
2. He has a high square forehead, most men of that region had a low rounded forehead;
3. The nose is long and straight, most men of that area and time had broad, flat noses;
4. He wears his hair long in a Prince Valiant/pageboy haircut, most men of that time had short hair, one inch average;
5. He has a long full beard, most men of that region trimmed their beards short, 1/2 inch on average;
6. Both the hair and the beard are straight, most of the men of the region had curly hair;
7. The forearms are too long for the body but the forelegs are proportional, nowhere is it said Jesus suffered any such physical oddity;
8. The image of the front of the body is 1/2 inch taller than the image on the rear, and the curvature of the cloth does not seem to account for this discrepancy.

The Bible does not say anywhere that Jesus looked any different from the average men of his place and time, and we must assume everyone who wrote about him considered him important so they would have mentioned any physical oddity. Since the Roman soldiers who came to take him had to ask who he was, we are forced to conclude, lacking any evidence to the contrary that Jesus did not look any different from any of the men of his place and time.


Like Samson and others, Jesus is believed to be a Nazarene. They did not cut their hair or beards. Of course there are other arguments so carry on
 
2011-12-20 04:38:33 PM  
"The implications are... that the image was formed by a burst of UV energy so intense it could only have been supernatural".

Maybe *he* was the light.
and the way
 
2011-12-20 04:39:45 PM  
narcosphere.narconews.com

Pray to your god
 
2011-12-20 04:39:47 PM  
supernatural ≠ aliens

I blame Caspar

www.nordinho.net

In nomine patri, et filii, et spiritu Casparii
 
2011-12-20 04:40:01 PM  
Them Italian scientists are trolling your religious ass's.

/Might have to do with the church prosecuting scientists for failing to predict earthquakes, volcanoes and the size of that hot 20 year old Italian chicks ass in 14 years.
//[insert "forest gump's" divine image here]
 
2011-12-20 04:41:15 PM  
I can stretch my nutsack over my knee.
 
2011-12-20 04:43:25 PM  

rico567: NallTWD: RULE #1 OF BEING A SCIENTIST: You cannot, I repeat, CANNOT, explain anything as "supernatural", ever.

Corollary:

RULE #2 OF BEING A SCIENTIST: You cannot, I repeat, CANNOT, use the natural world to deny the existence of the supernatural.


Sure you can: there is no such thing as "supernatural". Not understanding the mechanics behind something does not mean it's not natural.

"Supernatural" is a term used by people who don't understand something and simply surrender, apparently not wanting to understand it.
 
2011-12-20 04:43:37 PM  

olddinosaur: Here's what is wrong with the Shroud of Turin:

1. The man depicted is tall and thin, most men of that time and place were short and stocky;
2. He has a high square forehead, most men of that region had a low rounded forehead;
3. The nose is long and straight, most men of that area and time had broad, flat noses;
4. He wears his hair long in a Prince Valiant/pageboy haircut, most men of that time had short hair, one inch average;
5. He has a long full beard, most men of that region trimmed their beards short, 1/2 inch on average;
6. Both the hair and the beard are straight, most of the men of the region had curly hair;
7. The forearms are too long for the body but the forelegs are proportional, nowhere is it said Jesus suffered any such physical oddity;
8. The image of the front of the body is 1/2 inch taller than the image on the rear, and the curvature of the cloth does not seem to account for this discrepancy.

.

Thin, like he had be imprisoned and not fed much? Tall? Consider the "Sperm donor" and consider this when you think that 50% of the genetic material came from a farking alien, too.
As for the image length difference, if you shine a light at a three-D object, does not the unlit portion behind the curvature have less light? If it were a telporter beam, it would begin if facing front, on a prone semi dead guy, eventually move to the point of contact where the taller portion had been deconstructed and the last bits were indeed shorter.
Alien Teleportation. You can't explain that.
 
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