So they didn't need any agents provocateurs after all? Sweet.

In before "they should just shoot them".

Was the flood of officers delayed due to the killing of an innocent man by police very early in the riots? I suspect it played a part in the softening of their treatment.

DammitIForgotMyLogin: shiattynick: Was the flood of officers delayed due to the killing of an innocent man by police very early in the riots? I suspect it played a part in the softening of their treatment.

Which innocent man was that?

The man who was leaving work and trying to avoid the mess when for some reason he was chased and shoved from behind by an officer, resulting in massive brain trauma that killed him.

shiattynick: DammitIForgotMyLogin: shiattynick: Was the flood of officers delayed due to the killing of an innocent man by police very early in the riots? I suspect it played a part in the softening of their treatment.

Which innocent man was that?

The man who was leaving work and trying to avoid the mess when for some reason he was chased and shoved from behind by an officer, resulting in massive brain trauma that killed him.

Nope, guess again. The person I think you are referring to was Ian Tomlinson, who died during the protests at the G20 summit in 2009. The officer who pushed him, incidentally, is now up on a manslaugher charge.

The death that kicked this summer's riots off was Mark Duggan, known drug dealer who was shot after police (incorrectly, as it turned out) thought he was about to shoot at them.

/Not making a judgment about the actions of the cops in either case, just stating facts

shiattynick: DammitIForgotMyLogin: shiattynick: Was the flood of officers delayed due to the killing of an innocent man by police very early in the riots? I suspect it played a part in the softening of their treatment.

Which innocent man was that?

The man who was leaving work and trying to avoid the mess when for some reason he was chased and shoved from behind by an officer, resulting in massive brain trauma that killed him.

I heard a guy was getting out of a taxi when two cops grabbed him while he was paying the cabby and held him down on the hood while a third officer stuck a can of pepper spray up his hooha and ripped the cap off. Then they took turns suplexing him on the sidewalk, resulting in massive brain trauma that killed him.

You build up a police state then act shocked when the police behave like this?



Elections must be coming up.

trappedspirit: I heard a guy was getting out of a taxi when two cops grabbed him while he was paying the cabby and held him down on the hood while a third officer stuck a can of pepper spray up his hooha and ripped the cap off. Then they took turns suplexing him on the sidewalk, resulting in massive brain trauma that killed him.

This is more or less accurate. Also, they tazed his nads at least 169 times.

So it was from April protests, then this is what happened in August? Seems like the trouble over that incident could have played a part in their not going whole hog (pig) at the very start.

Veramar: shiattynick: So it was from April protests, then this is what happened in August? Seems like the trouble over that incident could have played a part in their not going whole hog (pig) at the very start.

As mentioned a few times above, Ian Tomlinson died in April 2009, almost two and a half years earlier. It would be a bit of a stretch to link the two incidents.

I realized that after my post. Still, even though there is a decent amount of time passed, I would imagine that the procedures for a massive reaction would have been changed a bit and possibly resulted in the type of lag mentioned in the article.
Reading the wiki page posted above about Mr. Tomlinson states that the trial against the officer who assaulted him started in mid-June of this year and concludes with this little nugget - The fallout from Tomlinson's death appears to have affected police responses to subsequent protests and demonstrations. During the 2010 student protest in London on 10 November 2010, London police deployed lower numbers of officers.[108] Fallout from Tomlinson's death was also cited as a possible factor in the police's initial cautious response to the 2011 England riots in August 2011.[109]

The report, "Policing Large-Scale Disorder: Lessons from the Disturbances of August 2011,"...

Lesson#1: Don't call it a "disturbance" when it's a bloody riot.

Veramar: As mentioned a few times above, Ian Tomlinson died in April 2009, almost two and a half years earlier. It would be a bit of a stretch to link the two incidents.

Because it didn't fall on an exact anniversary?

FLMountainMan: chixdiggit: trappedspirit: I heard a guy was getting out of a taxi when two cops grabbed him while he was paying the cabby and held him down on the hood while a third officer stuck a can of pepper spray up his hooha and ripped the cap off. Then they took turns suplexing him on the sidewalk, resulting in massive brain trauma that killed him.

This is more or less accurate. Also, they tazed his nads at least 169 times.

First of all, it was 196 times, not 169.

Second of all, you omitted that they did all this whilst prancing around him with his mum's head on a pike.

Dammit, that was Liz Taylor, not his mom.

FLMountainMan: the mustard gas stinging my own eyes

Where were you when you encountered mustard gas? WWI?

jshine: Where were you when you encountered mustard gas? WWI?

Right behind this guy

What's important here is to realize that none of this would have happened if it wasn't for the police and they are entirely to blame. Those innocent rioters were forced to loot stores in self defense to police brutality. Putting any blame on them for their actions and implying that their actions in anyway may have contributed to the police accidentally attacking innocent bystanders is wrong.

The funny part is that this was a protest against possible police injustice, social injustice, depending on the source you go to. And it looked like a big shopping trip.

In the next five years there may be a move to in broken windows, results oriented, American style policing. Think orders, body armor and zero tolerance.

/Not that British police never cross the line, looking at their policing from The States, they actually appeared to be mostly friendly. If this wasn't the reality I am listening.

DammitIForgotMyLogin,
Enemabag Jones: /Not that British police never cross the line, looking at their policing from The States, they actually appeared to be mostly friendly. If this wasn't the reality I am listening.
Oh, compared with what we see and read about policing in the States, our coppers are a friendly, gentle bunch, but, based on what we see and read about policing in the States, that's a bit like saying "well, compared with Stevens-Johnson* syndrome, this crushing chest wound doesn't seem all that bad, really".
*if you don't know what this is, don't google it.

We need some people from people from Zimbabwe and Turkmenistan to make this into a 'my police force is worse than yours' debate.

"The single most important reason why the disorder spread was the perception, relayed by television as well as new social media, that in some areas the police had lost control of the streets," the report said.

The report, "Policing Large-Scale Disorder: Lessons from the Disturbances of August 2011," also criticised police for a catalogue of other failures.

These included failing to quickly flood the streets with large numbers of officers,


So, the solution to unrest caused by police brutality is.......massively increased police brutality?

"The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

cefm
So, the solution to unrest caused by police brutality is.......massively increased police brutality?
"The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

Link (new window)

Meet the future of policing.
/*I do not personally endorse this product.

Enemabag Jones
The funny part is that this was a protest against possible police injustice, social injustice, depending on the source you go to. And it looked like a big shopping trip.

Property IS political.

RanDomino,Enemabag Jones
The funny part is that this was a protest against possible police injustice, social injustice, depending on the source you go to. And it looked like a big shopping trip.
Property IS political.

If I feel angry about power-tripping cops, the way to resolve that is to break into a shop and steal things, maybe set it on fire?.
/Yeah, destruction makes people notice, isn't there a better way too?

Enemabag Jones
If I feel angry about power-tripping cops, the way to resolve that is to break into a shop and steal things, maybe set it on fire?.
/Yeah, destruction makes people notice, isn't there a better way too?

They weren't trying to get people to "notice". They were making up for having been shut out of a good life for years. By taking it.

RanDomino,They weren't trying to get people to "notice". They were making up for having been shut out of a good life for years. By taking it.

Do you wanna make tea at the BBC? Do you wanna be, do you wanna be a cop? Career opportunties the ones that never knock. Every job offer they keep you at the dock...

I would like to say I understood, clearly I don't. Maybe I am getting there. I am not keyed into British culture or society anyway.

Thanks.