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(Huffington Post) Interesting Ok, how about a .03 percent tax on financial transactions that would (a) only affect the biggest financial institutions, (b) raise billions in needed revenue, and (c) actually work to reduce dangerous financial speculation?   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 276
More: Interesting, financial transactions, financial institutions  
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11190 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Dec 2011 at 4:04 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



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2011-12-17 08:53:55 AM
a tax? on gazillionaire banks? it'll never fly with the GOP. now, let's talk about taxing the poor and middle class - they LOVE to do that!
 
2011-12-17 08:59:15 AM
FlashHarry: a tax? on gazillionaire banks? it'll never fly with the GOP. now, let's talk about taxing the poor and middle class - they LOVE to do that!

yeah they're already paying to extend the millionaire's tax cuts with medicare /social security/pell grant cuts.
they want to kill the payroll tax cut for the middle class.

I'm sure they'll go after kittens and puppies next.
 
2011-12-17 09:11:34 AM
They'll just pass the cost on to us anyway, with juice.
 
2011-12-17 09:18:08 AM
Hobodeluxe: yeah they're already paying to extend the millionaire's tax cuts with medicare /social security/pell grant cuts.
they want to kill the payroll tax cut for the middle class.


when i read that, i was amazed. i thought, "even republicans can't be so brazenly pro-wealthy and anti-everybody else." but, as usual, i underestimated the scuzziness of the modern republican party. they're caricatures now -- the bond villains of politics.
 
2011-12-17 09:21:28 AM
How about if we tax Comcast for making all that cable TV money? What can they do if they have a new $20 tax for each cable TV subscription?

Oh, right.
 
2011-12-17 09:40:51 AM
DarthBrooks: How about if we tax Comcast for making all that cable TV money? What can they do if they have a new $20 tax for each cable TV subscription?

Oh, right.


This is an apples and orangutans comparison. You're smarter than that.
 
2011-12-17 09:48:52 AM
R.A.Danny: They'll just pass the cost on to us anyway, with juice.

No they won't! It's doesn't work that way! It will only affect those big evil wicked mean and nasty banks!
 
2011-12-17 09:58:59 AM
DarthBrooks: How about if we tax Comcast for making all that cable TV money? What can they do if they have a new $20 tax for each cable TV subscription?

Oh, right.


Yes, because a .03% tax per transaction is exactly equal to a 30% tax on your cable line. Are you this retarded offline, or just trolling?
 
2011-12-17 10:03:15 AM
The President should just immediately threaten to veto it if it ever crosses his desk.

It should then pass the House and Senate with flying colors.
 
2011-12-17 11:16:41 AM
ThunderPelvis: Yes, because a .03% tax per transaction is exactly equal to a 30% tax on your cable line. Are you this retarded offline, or just trolling?

Because taxes always get paid out of the corporate profits and never get added to the customer's bill, is that the point you're trying to claim here?
 
2011-12-17 12:02:55 PM
In high frequency trading, there are no "customers" to pass anything along to. They're not like "real" stock brokers that are buying shares on your behalf.

Most of these firms exist for the sole purpose of moving money around and taking advantage of minor pricing deviations.

I don't see why this should be a .03% tax... what's wrong with charging regular sales tax like we do on just about every other type of transaction?
 
2011-12-17 12:07:05 PM
Eddie Adams from Torrance: In high frequency trading, there are no "customers" to pass anything along to. They're not like "real" stock brokers that are buying shares on your behalf.

Most of these firms exist for the sole purpose of moving money around and taking advantage of minor pricing deviations.

I don't see why this should be a .03% tax... what's wrong with charging regular sales tax like we do on just about every other type of transaction?


because it's rich people that's why. their money is sacred.
 
2011-12-17 12:09:43 PM
Eddie Adams from Torrance: I don't see why this should be a .03% tax... what's wrong with charging regular sales tax like we do on just about every other type of transaction?

or split the difference. move the decimal two places to the left and make it a 3% fee. not as much as a sales tax, but enough to do the trick.
 
2011-12-17 12:30:46 PM
Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) and Rep. Peter DeFazio (D-Ore.) introduced legislation last month that would impose a 0.03 percent fee on financial transactions, an amount so small that its sting would only be felt by speculators who rapidly move vast sums in and out of trading positions.

Normal person response: 'meh. they ain't taxing me so I don't give a damn'.

GOP shill response: 'OMG SOCALISM! Fire from the sky! dogs! omg the DOGS! and bees! dogs with BEES! ITS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT!'

Normal person: [slightly off key]: '...and I feel fine!'

GOP shill: 'I hate you.'
 
2011-12-17 12:32:19 PM
Weaver95: Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) and Rep. Peter DeFazio (D-Ore.) introduced legislation last month that would impose a 0.03 percent fee on financial transactions, an amount so small that its sting would only be felt by speculators who rapidly move vast sums in and out of trading positions.

Normal person response: 'meh. they ain't taxing me so I don't give a damn'.

GOP shill response: 'OMG SOCALISM! Fire from the sky! dogs! omg the DOGS! and bees! dogs with BEES! ITS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT!'

Normal person: [slightly off key]: '...and I feel fine!'

GOP shill: 'I hate you.'


Pretty much. It is the end of all things. End all things.
 
2011-12-17 12:39:23 PM
I think I just realized something that's been bothering me about the "But corporations will just pass this tax down to the consumer" argument. It really doesn't make any sense unless you're making the case that the government shouldn't be raising any revenue at all (I do realize some make that case, so they're fine to use it). Because if you are going to collect a tax, why not direct it at corporations? Because your alternative is to apply it directly to the people you think they corporation is going to pass it down to anyways. This just takes out the middleman and by doing so removes all possibility that the poorest consumers might somehow benefit, even a little bit.
 
2011-12-17 12:41:15 PM
DarthBrooks: ThunderPelvis: Yes, because a .03% tax per transaction is exactly equal to a 30% tax on your cable line. Are you this retarded offline, or just trolling?

Because taxes always get paid out of the corporate profits and never get added to the customer's bill, is that the point you're trying to claim here?


If they get added to the bill, wouldn't that simply be more profit which is then taxed?
 
2011-12-17 12:42:56 PM
R.A.Danny: They'll just pass the cost on to us anyway, with juice.

I don't think that's true. how many poor people out there are moving millions of dollars around on a daily basis?
 
2011-12-17 12:46:18 PM
Weaver95: R.A.Danny: They'll just pass the cost on to us anyway, with juice.

I don't think that's true. how many poor people out there are moving millions of dollars around on a daily basis?


I mean their customers. Many of us still haven't taken up stuffing cash into our mattresses.
 
2011-12-17 12:48:48 PM
R.A.Danny: Weaver95: R.A.Danny: They'll just pass the cost on to us anyway, with juice.

I don't think that's true. how many poor people out there are moving millions of dollars around on a daily basis?

I mean their customers. Many of us still haven't taken up stuffing cash into our mattresses.


I still don't see how they're going to pass this along to their customers. again - not very many people are moving large piles of money around.
 
2011-12-17 01:10:03 PM
Weaver95: R.A.Danny: Weaver95: R.A.Danny: They'll just pass the cost on to us anyway, with juice.

I don't think that's true. how many poor people out there are moving millions of dollars around on a daily basis?

I mean their customers. Many of us still haven't taken up stuffing cash into our mattresses.

I still don't see how they're going to pass this along to their customers. again - not very many people are moving large piles of money around.


I am not understanding how you do not get this. The banks are taxed on their profits. Their profits come from their customers. If their customers are not making money, there will be no profits to tax. If there ARE profits, then obviously the customers are making money. Banks are making money because people are making money.
 
2011-12-17 01:15:27 PM
Weaver95: R.A.Danny: Weaver95: R.A.Danny: They'll just pass the cost on to us anyway, with juice.

I don't think that's true. how many poor people out there are moving millions of dollars around on a daily basis?

I mean their customers. Many of us still haven't taken up stuffing cash into our mattresses.

I still don't see how they're going to pass this along to their customers. again - not very many people are moving large piles of money around.


Banks have customers. Banks charge customers fees. Banks have hours that can be reduced and labor that can be fired. Multiply nickle-and-diming across millions of customers and hundreds of branches and you get millions of dollars. They will do whatever they can to pass the cost onto the customer.
 
2011-12-17 01:16:55 PM
R.A.Danny: If there ARE profits, then obviously the customers are making money. Banks are making money because people are making money.

But that's not how the banks are making money. they're not loaning money, they're sitting on large piles of cash and moving around between themselves and a few select customers.
 
2011-12-17 01:28:02 PM
Weaver95: R.A.Danny: If there ARE profits, then obviously the customers are making money. Banks are making money because people are making money.

But that's not how the banks are making money. they're not loaning money, they're sitting on large piles of cash and moving around between themselves and a few select customers.


Do you know anyone with a job? A lot of people are out there making money you know.
 
2011-12-17 01:34:19 PM
Talon: Weaver95: R.A.Danny: Weaver95: R.A.Danny: They'll just pass the cost on to us anyway, with juice.

I don't think that's true. how many poor people out there are moving millions of dollars around on a daily basis?

I mean their customers. Many of us still haven't taken up stuffing cash into our mattresses.

I still don't see how they're going to pass this along to their customers. again - not very many people are moving large piles of money around.

Banks have customers. Banks charge customers fees. Banks have hours that can be reduced and labor that can be fired. Multiply nickle-and-diming across millions of customers and hundreds of branches and you get millions of dollars. They will do whatever they can to pass the cost onto the customer.


This tax is directly targeted towards high frequency trading. It's not about taxing Granny's checking deposit withdrawals. While most of the large banks participate in the HFT game, there are lots of other companies like Sun Trading and GETCO that exist only to play and manipulate markets.
 
2011-12-17 01:40:40 PM
R.A.Danny:
Do you know anyone with a job? A lot of people are out there making money you know.


no, lots of people are making enough to survive (barely). this tax is directed at the people with vast sums of cash, not the little people like you and me. Assuming the tax is properly applied, it can only affect a very elite group of players.
 
2011-12-17 02:06:09 PM
Eddie Adams from Torrance: This tax is directly targeted towards high frequency trading. It's not about taxing Granny's checking deposit withdrawals. While most of the large banks participate in the HFT game, there are lots of other companies like Sun Trading and GETCO that exist only to play and manipulate markets.

Indeed. Its primary purpose isn't even to raise revenue, but to cut down on market-fixing bullshiat
 
2011-12-17 02:09:57 PM
RminusQ: Indeed. Its primary purpose isn't even to raise revenue, but to cut down on market-fixing bullshiat

And it won't affect 99% of the taxpayers in this country either. it can ONLY affect a limited group of high volume traders on Wall Street.
 
2011-12-17 02:29:42 PM
Weaver95: RminusQ: Indeed. Its primary purpose isn't even to raise revenue, but to cut down on market-fixing bullshiat

And it won't affect 99% of the taxpayers in this country either. it can ONLY affect a limited group of high volume traders on Wall Street.


When you put it in those terms, ZOMG! CLASS WARFAREZ!11!
 
2011-12-17 02:46:21 PM
but... but... but job creators... punishing success... socialism... everyone will go on welfare ...
 
2011-12-17 02:47:31 PM
Eddie Adams from Torrance: Weaver95: RminusQ: Indeed. Its primary purpose isn't even to raise revenue, but to cut down on market-fixing bullshiat

And it won't affect 99% of the taxpayers in this country either. it can ONLY affect a limited group of high volume traders on Wall Street.

When you put it in those terms, ZOMG! CLASS WARFAREZ!11!


D'oh I knew i forgot one.
 
2011-12-17 02:48:39 PM
Not a bad idea, but I'm curious how they came up with that exact number.
 
2011-12-17 03:00:33 PM
Wasn't this tax way way back first proposed as a means of funding the United Nations? I think that would be a more meaningful use of it, since so many financial transactions are transnational by nature.

/light dashes of troll
 
2011-12-17 03:44:49 PM
The Flanfred von Wittgenstein Institute is reporting that this proposal would lead to a second Great Depression with unemployment reaching 95 to 100 percent. Senior analyst Hans von Mothman states, and I quote, "the slightest increase in taxes or government regulation, no matter how small, will lead to the collapse of civilization". Ludwig von Mistletoe Jr. says it could be even worse than that, resulting in the complete destruction of the space-time continuum. Only an idiot would be in favor of the complete destruction of the universe.

President Barack Obama Taxbongo Obamaluke

Oh, right. Taxbongo wants to raise taxes. It's a day that ends in "y". I'm stunned.
 
2011-12-17 04:05:00 PM
Nuking Wall Street from orbit is the only way to be sure, but this proposal is a start.


Jamdug!: Not a bad idea, but I'm curious how they came up with that exact number.

Yeah, I'm curious too.
Is the percentage justified in order to calm the tits of market volatility to within certain parameters, is it justified by the dangerousness of kind of financial schemes it hits hardest, or is it just that the revenue generated fits a certain goal in deficit reduction?
Likely all of those good reasons, and more besides, but it'd be interesting to know how they arrive at 0.03%

I'm also curious how the moneygrubbbers will scheme to make a loophole around this. Besides owning Congress, I mean.
 
2011-12-17 04:09:09 PM
D). Will have less chance of passing a vote, he'll even getting out of committee, than the Raping Puppies and Systematic Destruction of the Environment Act of 2012
 
2011-12-17 04:09:24 PM
.03%?! .03%?! Make sure you at least cup my balls while you're raping me in the ass with your taxes! Why don't you just steal the food out of my children's mouths, you tax and spend cowards! At this rate I'll only have enough money to get an Audi A8. F*cking commies...
 
2011-12-17 04:11:26 PM
Weaver95: RminusQ: Indeed. Its primary purpose isn't even to raise revenue, but to cut down on market-fixing bullshiat

And it won't affect 99% of the taxpayers in this country either. it can ONLY affect a limited group of high volume traders on Wall Street.


Like those fat cats that use ATMs, those people rolling in cash that use direct deposit, and the 1% types that get mortgages.

Banks have and will pass on every cost to all of their customers, every time.
 
2011-12-17 04:11:34 PM
Alles was ist, endet.
Ein düst'rer Tag
dämmert den Göttern:

... and about bloody time.
 
2011-12-17 04:12:03 PM
Wait! You can't tax the rich. They'll just get all pissy and stop making money.
 
2011-12-17 04:13:10 PM
DarthBrooks: Because taxes always get paid out of the corporate profits and never get added to the customer's bill, is that the point you're trying to claim here?

Why is it that nobody seems to understand how corporate taxes work?

Taxes are NOT levied on revenue. They're levied on income.

A corporation really doesn't have much of an incentive to increase consumer prices when the corporate tax rates increase.

Of course, raising prices DOES often decrease the amount of money the corporation has to give up in taxes. But, that's because RAISING prices generally REDUCES corporate income.
 
2011-12-17 04:13:47 PM
Some people just aren't happy unless they are raising taxes and griping about the rich, they have no lives of their own and never will. They'll go to their graves bitter and envious.
 
2011-12-17 04:14:26 PM
Slowing down financial transactions is a novel idea to regulate the banking industry, but as far as generating revenue, taxes do not need to be raised, loopholes just need to be closed.

According to this, the US GDP is $14,545,950,000,000, and the total taxes collected equal $2,192,180,000,000, with a federal defecit of $1,394,530,000,000. So thats a 15% total actual tax rate. The actual tax rate would need to be raised 9% to 24% to make up the difference. This states that the US federal corporate tax rate varies between 15 and 35%, and we know most corporations arent even paying 15%...
 
2011-12-17 04:15:26 PM
janzee: Wait! You can't tax the rich. They'll just get all pissy and stop making money.

THIS!!!
 
2011-12-17 04:18:31 PM
Reduce speculation? I don't think so. This is mainly aimed at high speed traders... If you research it, you find that they actually BRING DOWN the cost of securities. These little companies are costing the BIG companies lots of money (by being the market maker). What we need is even more small high speed trading companies to reduce the spread even more and make stock trading more fair.
 
2011-12-17 04:19:05 PM
DarthBrooks: ThunderPelvis: Yes, because a .03% tax per transaction is exactly equal to a 30% tax on your cable line. Are you this retarded offline, or just trolling?

Because taxes always get paid out of the corporate profits and never get added to the customer's bill, is that the point you're trying to claim here?


Because customers are powerless to choose where they shop, is that the point you're trying to claim here?
 
2011-12-17 04:19:28 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about this.

People who buy things and then sell them are pretty much the corner-stone of a free market. Sure it feels abstract when you hear of day traders doing it, but it sure seems like a valid thing to do to me. And, for as much as people biatch about other people doing it; YOU can do it. It's not exactly the free money machine people make it out to be.

The concern I have with the tax on transactions is that all of the big financial institutes in the US have offices all over the world. Heck, even the SMALL ones have offices all over the world. But these are separate legal entities, setup outside of the US. And we're talking about very large sums of money. They can buy and sell whatever they want in markets all over the place.

What happens when, all of a sudden, the US government passes legislation that immediately makes US transactions less profitable while making every Non-US transaction more favourable?

I wonder if there could be unintended consequences when jobs and money end up going outside of the US. Again, I don't know, I'm actually wondering. The world is increasingly global. I say this as a US Citizen living and working in Europe for a US-based company. It's kinda weird.
 
2011-12-17 04:20:11 PM
R.A.Danny: Banks have and will pass on every cost to all of their customers, every time.

I don't see how they can pass THIS on to their rank and file customers. 99% of the country isn't going to be affected by this tax.
 
2011-12-17 04:20:41 PM
Why is "It will affect someone other then you" a valid justification for taxation?

I always love that the revenue projections assume that the taxed item will sell/move at the same rate after the new tax as it did before the new tax.

Traders will slow down their trades and the revenue will go down, of course the new spending will not.
 
2011-12-17 04:21:44 PM
R.A.Danny: Banks have and will pass on every cost to all of their customers, every time.

Another reason to repost my earlier comment:

Why is it that nobody seems to understand how corporate taxes work?

Taxes are NOT levied on revenue. They're levied on income.

A corporation really doesn't have much of an incentive to increase consumer prices when the corporate tax rates increase.

Of course, raising prices DOES often decrease the amount of money the corporation has to give up in taxes. But, that's because RAISING prices generally REDUCES corporate income.
 
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