Strongly opinionated members can determine a group's consensus decision, even when they make up only a small minority. New research of animal behavior shows, however, that adding ignorant or uninformed members to the group can counteract the minority's powerful influence and promote a more democratic outcome.



Kinda explains the tea party.

If ignorance made a democracy better, then the US would be in much better shape.

FTFA:The scientists stressed that the results of the study cannot be extrapolated to decision-making in human groups.

Bet that gets left out of most news reports on the study.

Outrageous Muff: If Jefferson were alive to read that sentence, he would die of shame.

I highly doubt it. Very few of the Founders had a high opinion of the masses and their political decision making prowess, in fact, most of them felt that the masses should not be included because only land owning white men had the appropriate leisure time to fully understand politics. Let's also not forget that Jefferson had his own 'insiders' publishing pamphlets and stories to propagate his message. I think it's funny how we've developed such a rosy picture of early politics in this country to some how think we're special with today's brand of Partisanship, when in reality, today seems almost like child's play compared to the politicking of yester-year.

Funny Anecdote: The phrase "politics makes strange bedfellows" was first coined by Wendell Wilkies estranged wife when he asked her to move into the hotel with him for his campaign (he still had his mistress but the wife made a better public picture). It didn't become popularized until it was included in a play written in the 1960's about a politician in similar circumstances, and when JFK read the script he turned to one of his friends and asked "Are they writing this about me?"

CravenMorehead: Ignorance and religion walk hand-in-hand. When they go away, everything will get better.

Funny you should say that. If it weren't for Religious belief and faith in God, there wouldn't have been an emancipation proclamation during the Civil War. Lincoln was being pressured heavily not to produce it because there was very little support in the north for abolition and it was an election year. Lincoln waited for a sign from God that he was doing the right thing and in the end, decided that freeing the slaves was "Gods will". Despite his atheistic young adult-hood, he was a decidedly religious person as president and read the bible every night.

He wasn't ignorant by a long shot.

heinekenftw: Funny you should say that. If it weren't for the Christian dark ages, we'd be in space by now.

The Dark ages were brought about by the downfall of Rome, and if it weren't for Christian Monks saving literature from that time period there would have been no enlightenment or scientific discovery. Western peasants were too busy scratching out an existence to devote any time to anything but scratching out an existence. It was the Monks who had the time and directive to better understand Gods universe.

Tell me, who is blocking scientific education and sexual education at every turn?

Nobody is blocking scientific education, and they only wish to keep sexual education out of the public school system and leave it up to parents and family doctors. You do realize the Vatican has it's own observatory and leases time with others right?

1derful: Well that, and abolition was a genius way to cripple the south economically.

If complete abolition was about crippling the south economically, he would have done it long before the 1864 elections when the south appeared to be winning. Of course, by that time, he couldn't "cripple" them economically because Northern Laws didn't apply to them. He also was far more friendly to the South with regards to reconstruction, so I highly doubt that was his reasoning. He believed abolition would cost him the election and place McClellan in the presidency which in his opinion would have lead to an almost surrender to the South. He was so convinced he actually wrote a letter earlier in that year explaining why he had lost, sealed it and had all of his cabinet members sign the sealed envelope. After the election he brought them together, unsealed it and read it to them. It's reported that there were very few dry eyes in the room afterwards.

Tell me how Lincoln's religion guided him to suspend habeas corpus in Maryland while your at it.

I'd have to do some research to see if he left any diary notes with regards to that particular decision, but I'm sure it had a factor, as I said, he read the Bible every night and believed that he was doing Gods Will.

Yay democracy!

Outrageous Muff: By attacking the public school system, conservatives are destroying the idea that representative democracies can work.

And again they aren't attacking the Public School System, but rather the bloated and corrupt bureaucracy that has grown around it. They support vouchers which is still very much in the ideal of a "Public Education System".

1derful: Tell me how Lincoln's religion guided him to suspend habeas corpus in Maryland while your at it.

Some basic research done: Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus because the rioting was preventing conscripts and supplies from making it's way to the front, endangering the war effort, he did it without authorization from Congress because at the time, it was too dangerous to call the Congress back into session. (They were currently out of session ) Once Congress reconvened he went before Congress and explained his actions, following which there was legislation approving his decisions. It was filibustered by the Democrats at the time, but eventually passed. A year or so later, though, Lincoln stepped back from that decision and released all political prisoners and extended amnesty to many of them. Considering Lincoln viewed the Union as Gods Chosen people and Nation, preserving the union, in his belief, was doing Gods Will, therefore the necessary step of suspending Habeas Corpus was also, Gods Will.

sparkeyjames: Look at their attack on
education and tell me I'm wrong.

Please show me where they are attacking Education. Then I will counter it, because contrary to your misunderstanding, there is no attack on education.

CanisNoir: sparkeyjames: Look at their attack on
education and tell me I'm wrong.

Please show me where they are attacking Education. Then I will counter it, because contrary to your misunderstanding, there is no attack on education.

Whoever goes to a decent college that doesn't follow the Republican agenda is considered an elitist. Whoever conducts research at a university that doesn't give results that support the Republican agenda is ostracized in the conservative media. Whoever doesn't promote the failed Republican agenda in the educational system is considered "indoctrinating" the children.

Republicans know that in order to push their agenda and win elections they require a large base of highly uninformed, non-critically thinking Americans. The easiest way to do that is to be anti-education. They try to wrap up their arguments by saying things like, "States should decide how they education their students!" They try to make it into a states' rights issue rather than the blatant anti-education issue that it obviously is. But, they've repeated the line so many times that their non-critically thinking base won't see it that way. It's far easier to repeat something that somebody else said than it is to think about it for yourself and come to your own conclusions. .

Doc Lee: Whoever goes to a decent college that doesn't follow the Republican agenda is considered an elitist.

No, who ever acts like a pompous douchebag is an elitist.

Alright, I was going to go point by point and explain how you were wrong, but after a second read, I see that instead of offering up facts and citations of where Republicans attack "Education" and\or knowledge, you just spewed a bunch of un-researched opinions based upon anecdotal and biased experiences.

It's far easier to repeat something that somebody else said than it is to think about it for yourself and come to your own conclusions. .

Considering the list of talking points you spewed, this line, I did find rather humorously ironic.

CanisNoir: No, who ever acts like a pompous douchebag is an elitist.

Really...that's hilarious. I've never heard anybody call Gingrich an elitist and he acts like a pompous bag of crap every single time he's at a debate. "I'm a historian. I know better than you do!"

Alright, I was going to go point by point and explain how you were wrong, but after a second read, I see that instead of offering up facts and citations of where Republicans attack "Education" and\or knowledge, you just spewed a bunch of un-researched opinions based upon anecdotal and biased experiences.

I accept your admission that you are unable to counter my factual observations of the far-right wing Republican Party with your propaganda in a convincing manner.

Considering the list of talking points you spewed, this line, I did find rather humorously ironic.

Talking points? I take it you don't read the news or participate in reality. That's ok. I don't expect a Republican to be informed of the world that exists outside of their conservative media bubble.

Cheers.

Jerseysteve22: Lincoln didn't wait for a sign from God, he waited until it was politically opportune to issue the emancipation proclamation.

Yes and no. When he read the rough draft of the Emancipation Proclamation, he called it a Military Proclamation as it was designed around preventing slaves from joining the rebel cause and hopefully bring them over to the north.

If the Negroes were to risk their life for the Union cause. "they must be prompted by the strongest motives" Lincoln later explained. "Why should they do anything for us if we would do nothing for them?"^*

However, he did see the timing as a sign from God.

That September, with the Union's bloody victory at Antietam, Lincoln felt it was time to announce his proclamation. He had told his Cabinet that "if God gave us a victory" at Antietam, he would consider it a Providential sign to "move forward".^**

* Presidential Courage Page 109
** Presidential Courage Page 110

/And no, I don't think I'm smarter than everyone, just maybe slightly more knowledgeable in some areas, but book learning and intelligence are two different things.

JRoo: lbryant: We're a Republic, you ignorant farks.

You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes...

There you go bringing class into it again!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to have a moistened bint lob at scimitar at me in 26 minutes.