I guess a statue of Chtulu with a placard saying "My god is older than your god" would definately be out then.

When I first started hearing about these displays going up I was delighted, but as more and more time goes by I just see it as a complete joke. One serious display and a bunch of other displays mocking the serious display. A lot of folks would argue that to be the point of it all, but I am starting to see it as a distraction to the Holiday season. Again, that's probably also the goal of some of these folks. To be honest I don't think a courthouse lawn is the place for these displays regardless of religion or fake religion.

"The creche is not religious," Caulkins said, his voice trembling. "It is a belief symbol.

There is no palm nor face large enough.

Relatively Obscure: "The creche is not religious," Caulkins said, his voice trembling. "It is a belief symbol.

There is no palm nor face large enough.

I didn't RTFA and didn't know what a creche was when I read your post, so my Weeners after reading this was "so it's just like the nativity scene they set up?"

Then I Googled creche and became confused.

Well that's a weird thing to filter...

FTFA - "Touched by an Angelhair."

LOL

Winning: To be honest I don't think a courthouse lawn is the place for these displays regardless of religion or fake religion.

You're right. But as long as religious folk insist on giving their wacky beliefs the imprimatur of government approval and authority by associating the two, I'm damn glad to have people mocking the shiat out of them and reducing it to an absurd spectacle.

You know, you religious folks who are bothered by this are playing right into their hands. If they weren't getting a reaction to this nonsense, they'd probably stop doing it. Like toddlers acting out, the attention they get is the whole point.

Nabb1: You know, you religious folks who are bothered by this are playing right into their hands. If they weren't getting a reaction to this nonsense, they'd probably stop doing it. Like toddlers acting out, the attention they get is the whole point.

Gaudy, public religious displays, by contrast, are intended solely for measured, private contemplation.

Nabb1: You know, you religious folks who are bothered by this are playing right into their hands. If they weren't getting a reaction to this nonsense, they'd probably stop doing it. Like toddlers acting out, the attention they get is the whole point.

You know good and well it's not the whole point.

But it's perfectly true that if the religious would stop being utterly offended that other people aren't Christian, the nativity scene would probably sit alone on the Courthouse lawn.

kronicfeld: Nabb1: You know, you religious folks who are bothered by this are playing right into their hands. If they weren't getting a reaction to this nonsense, they'd probably stop doing it. Like toddlers acting out, the attention they get is the whole point.

Gaudy, public religious displays, by contrast, are intended solely for measured, private contemplation.

I agree religious displays shouldn't be on government property, but the Flying Spaghetti Monster gag is just stupid. It's a sophomoric bit of humor that really isn't going to win too many people over, I would imagine. At least, not the minds of those whom you are most trying to convince.

hillbillypharmacist: Nabb1: You know, you religious folks who are bothered by this are playing right into their hands. If they weren't getting a reaction to this nonsense, they'd probably stop doing it. Like toddlers acting out, the attention they get is the whole point.

You know good and well it's not the whole point.

But it's perfectly true that if the religious would stop being utterly offended that other people aren't Christian, the nativity scene would probably sit alone on the Courthouse lawn.

Oh, so all Christians are offended by the existence of non-Christians? Interesting.

hillbillypharmacist: Nabb1: You know, you religious folks who are bothered by this are playing right into their hands. If they weren't getting a reaction to this nonsense, they'd probably stop doing it. Like toddlers acting out, the attention they get is the whole point.

You know good and well it's not the whole point.

But it's perfectly true that if the religious would stop being utterly offended that other people aren't Christian, the nativity scene would probably sit alone on the Courthouse lawn.

That's the way these things always go, though. it's always something like this:

Christians: "We want to say a prayer at this public event as a simple expression of our own religious beliefs, not to impose them on anyone else."

Muslims: "OK, can we say a prayer too then?"

Christians: OMG SHARIA LAW

Nabb1: Oh, so all Christians are offended by the existence of non-Christians? Interesting.

The word 'all' was inserted by you.

I'm sure the religious people who didn't want the other displays was all about aesthetics, and not about competing belief systems.

hillbillypharmacist: Nabb1: Oh, so all Christians are offended by the existence of non-Christians? Interesting.

The word 'all' was inserted by you.

I'm sure the religious people who didn't want the other displays was all about aesthetics, and not about competing belief systems.

No, but you didn't qualify it, either. I think the majority of Christians would be okay with a Menorah for Chanukah (which is fairly common) or other religious displays. But the FSM thing is intentionally mocking and antagonistic. And childish. As someone who has long believed that government property may not be the best venue for this, I find it embarrassing and counterproductive that people use these sorts of things to argue the point. I may agree with the underlying goal, but that doesn't mean I can't think some people are acting like assholes in the way they go about arguing it.

Nabb1: But the FSM thing is intentionally mocking and antagonistic. And childish. As someone who has long believed that government property may not be the best venue for this, I find it embarrassing and counterproductive that people use these sorts of things to argue the point. I may agree with the underlying goal, but that doesn't mean I can't think some people are acting like assholes in the way they go about arguing it.

I'll agree with you there. FSM is probably the worst thing to prove the point with.

Here in Little Rock, the local Freethinkers put up a winter solstice display. But it's otherwise tasteful.

White people problems.

I left off the best part, though.

Even though it was otherwise tasteful and not antagonistic (other than its mere presence), the Freethinkers had to sue then Sec of State Charlie Daniels (not that Charlie Daniels) to allow it on the lawn.

hillbillypharmacist: I left off the best part, though.

Even though it was otherwise tasteful and not antagonistic (other than its mere presence), the Freethinkers had to sue then Sec of State Charlie Daniels (not that Charlie Daniels) to allow it on the lawn.

It would have been an awesome story if it was that Charlie Daniels.

"The devil cannot stand to be mocked." -C. S. Lewis

FredaDeStilleto: I'm surprised the skeleton Santa on the cross was torn down. If anything, it would represent an affirmation of the belief held by some that their religious holiday is being hijacked by consumer greed.

It shouldn't be too surprising. The message is obvious to you because you inhabit the right side of the IQ bell curve. Half of us don't.

Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: I left off the best part, though.

Even though it was otherwise tasteful and not antagonistic (other than its mere presence), the Freethinkers had to sue then Sec of State Charlie Daniels (not that Charlie Daniels) to allow it on the lawn.

It would have been an awesome story if it was that Charlie Daniels.

Somehow I think the suit would have ended in a mediation involving a fiddle contest.

You're right, that would be awesome.

gilgigamesh: Nabb1: hillbillypharmacist: I left off the best part, though.

Even though it was otherwise tasteful and not antagonistic (other than its mere presence), the Freethinkers had to sue then Sec of State Charlie Daniels (not that Charlie Daniels) to allow it on the lawn.

It would have been an awesome story if it was that Charlie Daniels.

Somehow I think the suit would have ended in a mediation involving a fiddle contest.

That goes without saying.

Well, maybe more like binding arbitration than mediation. You know, for drama.

"The creche is not religious," Caulkins said, his voice trembling. "It is a belief symbol. You have to believe in something."

It is.
True, it is a symbol of belief in Christianity.
No, you don't have to believe in a specific "religion"

The devil went down to Little Rock, he was puttin up a solstice display
He was in a bind 'cos the Christers were vying, and he was wantin to make em pay
When he came across this young man sawin' on a nativity and displayin it hot.
And the devil jumped upon a hickory stump and said: "Boy let me tell you what"
"I guess you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player too.
"And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.
"Now you play a pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his due:
"I bet a fiddle of gold against your kiosk, 'cos I think I'm better than you."
The boy said: "My name's Johnny and it might be a sin,
"But I'll take your bet, your gonna regret, 'cos I'm the best that's ever been."

This "War on Christmas" stuff is so tiresome. I do wish there was a better was nonbelievers could get their message across.

I was going to say that the atheist billboard idea linked downthread was a nicer way to convey a message, but I read the article, and no, that one's douchey too.

hillbillypharmacist:

You know how I know that was perfect? I literally heard the "bum bum BUM" in my head after Boy lemme tell you what.

Well done.

Just imagine if there was no religion, it's easy if you try...

hillbillypharmacist: The devil went down to Little Rock, he was puttin up a solstice display
He was in a bind 'cos the Christers were vying, and he was wantin to make em pay
When he came across this young man sawin' on a nativity and displayin it hot.
And the devil jumped upon a hickory stump and said: "Boy let me tell you what"
"I guess you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player too.
"And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.
"Now you play a pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his due:
"I bet a fiddle of gold against your kiosk, 'cos I think I'm better than you."
The boy said: "My name's Johnny and it might be a sin,
"But I'll take your bet, your gonna regret, 'cos I'm the best that's ever been."

hillbillypharmacist: The devil went down to Little Rock, he was puttin up a solstice display
He was in a bind 'cos the Christers were vying, and he was wantin to make em pay
When he came across this young man sawin' on a nativity and displayin it hot.
And the devil jumped upon a hickory stump and said: "Boy let me tell you what"
"I guess you didn't know it, but I'm a fiddle player too.
"And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll make a bet with you.
"Now you play a pretty good fiddle, boy, but give the devil his due:
"I bet a fiddle of gold against your kiosk, 'cos I think I'm better than you."
The boy said: "My name's Johnny and it might be a sin,
"But I'll take your bet, your gonna regret, 'cos I'm the best that's ever been."

Someone ran out of ideas about a third of the way through this.

Relatively Obscure: Someone ran out of ideas about a third of the way through this.

Ha ha ha it's true.

The problem with the Flying Spaghetti Monster isn't that it's offensive, the problem is that it's just not funny. These people need some new material.

sigdiamond2000: The problem with the Flying Spaghetti Monster isn't that it's offensive, the problem is that it's just not funny. These people need some new material.

Cool, I say the same thing about most other religions too.

It's pretty simple, really: Courthouses belong to everybody, so displays are (and must be) a free for all.

If you want to pick & choose, you have churches for this purpose.

Everyone in this story is a douchebag.

gilgigamesh: This "War on Christmas" stuff is so tiresome. I do wish there was a better was nonbelievers could get their message across.

I was going to say that the atheist billboard idea linked downthread was a nicer way to convey a message, but I read the article, and no, that one's douchey too.

Nonbelievers shouldn't bother. What's the point of realizing that religion doesn't define their lives if they're merely going to replace it with antagonism towards religion?

Either way, some aspect of religion is controlling your behavior.

FTA: "Reid moved to Leesburg a decade ago because he wanted his children to grow up in a place with a quaint, small-town feel. He still thinks the town is welcoming and friendly, although he has seen some changes that concern him. Loudoun, which in recent years has been among the fastest-growing counties in the nation, is no longer the quiet farm community it once was."

Progress sucks for the left behind...

You guyyyys, c'mmonn, my religion doesn't look real if everyone gets an opinion.

HOW DARE THEY?!?!

Making a mockery of this Holiday with their flying spaghetti monsters!

This is a holiday to celebrate when a woman who had never had sex was miraculously impregnated by an invisible man in the sky, and gave birth to a child that would eventually be recognized as the greatest magician of his time before he had a horrible accident with a couple of 2X4s.

Aarontology: Everyone in this story is a douchebag.

Good summary.