Weaver95: well f*ck. i'm gonna go get drunk.

Yup.

Office Xmas party in 30 minutes. Imma get hammered on the company dime.

Weaver95:
[chawedrosin.files.wordpress.com image 557x378]

that's what I see.

Grand_Moff_Joseph: The editorial from the NYT is spot on, but it does miss one important point that Jon Stewart and others raised: Obama's initial promise to veto was based NOT on the indefinite detention aspects, but on the premise that it didn't give the Executive enough authority to hold people indefinitely.

Eh, it's weirder than that. The original language hard defaulted all people arrested for terrorism-related crimes to military jurisdiction. If the FBI had an open investigation on the guy, they would have had to turn that investigation over to the military. But the military was under no requirement to continue the investigation, continue to interrogate, etc. If it went through as worded, arresting a terrorist could totally fark up the investigations against him and would cut him off from the law enforcement/intelligence communities. Language was added saying that the military is just going to hold and try the person, and that neither of those would interfere with any active investigations on the individual.

As the law stood, it even failed at being the colossal failure it is now.

Buy icepicks, befriend them, invite them to dinner, etc.

Time to opt out of this system.
It's not working any more.

What's more strange is that the GOP not only agreed to give a DEMOCRATIC President more power but they wrote the bill.

Can we start the revolution already?

I'll happily defend Obama from Republican derp, but this is indefensible. The more saddening thing is that there are no other candidates to vote for because the only opposition is 1000 times worse. Best I can hope for is he doesn't do anything stupid with it, and vote for people likely to do the same. A dismal scenario.

/don't waste your breath with the "vote third party" schtick. That's impossible under the current system.

Some congresscritters are trying to fix the horror show already:

http://www.unitedliberty.org/articles/9213-senators-introduce-the-du e- process-guarantee-act (new window)

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

We need to nuke Washington from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

deadcrickets: What's more strange is that the GOP not only agreed to give a DEMOCRATIC President more power but they wrote the bill.

That's because they 'know' taxbongo is only going to have one term. Could you imagine someone like Bachmann or Perry with these kind of powers?

I'm sure it will be fine. You guys are all just paranoid. It's not like granting the president (any president) the power to arrest and detain anyone he/she chooses and quietly lock them away forever with no rights and no legal representation would ever be abused. They're not going to just start rounding up political dissidents, malcontents and political rivals and detain them forever without having to even try to prove that they've broken the law! That would just be wrong. Anyone who is elected president is obviously an astute politician, and if there is one group of people that we can trust to be honest, forthright, moral, ethical and upstanding, it's politicians and lawyers.

Sergeant Grumbles:
/don't waste your breath with the "vote third party" schtick. That's impossible under the current system.

it would be possible if the voting system, at least at the congressional level, was AV or some other system that didn't lead to a vote for a third party essentially helping the person you least want to win.

Which is why we will never have an AV system.

Farking While Farking: Sergeant Grumbles:
/don't waste your breath with the "vote third party" schtick. That's impossible under the current system.

it would be possible if the voting system, at least at the congressional level, was AV or some other system that didn't lead to a vote for a third party essentially helping the person you least want to win.

Which is why we will never have an AV system.

At least not until we start lynching some people.

Let's put it this way:

The terrorists won. They wanted to destroy America, and America let them.

Farking While Farking: it would be possible if the voting system, at least at the congressional level, was AV or some other system that didn't lead to a vote for a third party essentially helping the person you least want to win.

Which is why we will never have an AV system.

I'd love to get a better system. Plenty out there to choose from.
I also wonder about the mechanics of getting something of a parliamentary system within the legislature... third house of legislature opposite the House and Senate? Not something I've given much thought to, but I would like to see small parties get some recognition beyond the local level.

GAT_00: Honestly, this bill hurts the President's re-election chances more than anything else, as it should. I think it would be a safe assumption that the recently mollified left is going to hit the ceiling and that goodwill he had been building back is gone.

There needs to be a last minute primary effort against the President, with this as the core.

Who the fark else am I going to vote for though?

The GOP?

Who needs enemies with officials like these?

Grand_Moff_Joseph: -Failing housing market that no one has the balls to fix

I'm sure plenty of people had the balls to let it flame out on its own and rebuild, as it was supposed to. Instead we bought votes and paid off an entire generation at the EXTREME detriment of 18-30 year olds who could have afforded housing at corrected levels. Instead, we're keeping prices artifically propped at higher levels than they've ever been (at least before the bubble) with the typical government "destroy everything long term for 3 years of comfort" plan.

Rihlsul: Some congresscritters are trying to fix the horror show already:

http://www.unitedliberty.org/articles/9213-senators-introduce-the-du e- process-guarantee-act (new window)

Holy schnit! One of MY critters is on there.

Good for you, Udal. Good for you

gilgigamesh: Grand_Moff_Joseph:
words

All true, but there will be no serious third party until 99% of people are no longer comfortable, and large swaths are actually starving in the streets. Then there will be either a complete overthrow, complete with gallows on Wall Street and the Washington mall, or (hopefully) the rise of multiple parties to challenge the status quo.

Also, it is truly sad that once again, Jon Stewart is the only guy on TV getting this right. Even Maddow was off-base on Obama's objections to the bill.

Do you really think that anyone not in the pocket of the corporate interests will ever make it on the national ballot?

I'm just upset this will be used on far more drug dealers than terrorists, and they provide a vital community service.

thomps: thomps: so candidate obama turned from a valiant defender of american civil liberties in the war on terror to president obama, who is just as enthusiastic about gaining executive powers to detain and imprison americans in america. this raises the question: was candidate obama a liar or did he get into the white house and discover that the secret muslim conspiracy to infiltrate america with sleeper cells hell bent on sneaking shariah law into our system of government is a real and deeply rooted threat? i don't think obama is a liar.

ftfm

Obama proved himself a liar when he reversed his position on telecom immunity. He has always been a corporatist boot-licker that masquerades as a liberal for elections than goes right back to selling out the people that voted for him as soon as the elections are over. He keeps capitulating because he wants the results he is getting. D and R is nothing but shadows on the cave wall - it's millionaires vs everyone else, and Obama is firmly on Team Millionaire, as is every other national politician in either party. Terrorism is just the convenient excuse needed to quash civil rights and continue to funnel money to the top through the DoD and state security apparatus. Yes, there are people that want to harm the US, but their numbers and ability to do so are grossly over-exaggerated to provide cover for laws that no free peoples with any critical thinking capacity whatsoever would agree to. The US is well on the way to becoming what the USSR was in the 50's-80's.

/extremely disappointed leftist
//that saw this coming years ago and moved to Canada
///only to get Rob Ford and a Harper majority - proving low information suburban voters are the same on either side of the 49th.

heinekenftw: GAT_00: Honestly, this bill hurts the President's re-election chances more than anything else, as it should. I think it would be a safe assumption that the recently mollified left is going to hit the ceiling and that goodwill he had been building back is gone.

There needs to be a last minute primary effort against the President, with this as the core.

Who the fark else am I going to vote for though?

The GOP?

President Franken wouldn't stand for this.

// neither would President Max Cleland, but for different reasons

There was a chance to nip this in the bud when the previous administration set this up after 9/11, but nobody gave a shiat then.

Now people suddenly do. It took 10 years for you assclowns to wake up and smell the coffee, so fark ya.

heinekenftw: GAT_00: Honestly, this bill hurts the President's re-election chances more than anything else, as it should. I think it would be a safe assumption that the recently mollified left is going to hit the ceiling and that goodwill he had been building back is gone.

There needs to be a last minute primary effort against the President, with this as the core.

Who the fark else am I going to vote for though?

The GOP?

LOL, I was wondering the same thing. No way in hell I vote GOP this round, the crazy is just too much. Obama is the only viable candidate, but I feel like he is basically shatting all over me by stating he will sign this thing. I just can't farking win!

GAT_00: Honestly, this bill hurts the President's re-election chances more than anything else, as it should. I think it would be a safe assumption that the recently mollified left is going to hit the ceiling and that goodwill he had been building back is gone.

There needs to be a last minute primary effort against the President, with this as the core.

(sigh) I would much rather have Obama do a second term and hope that he fixes things, rather than trust any of the current GOP talking heads.

Here's my hope for a second-term Obama:

-he figures that it's his last chance to do what's right, and it's not going to hurt his re-election chances, so he allows free marriage, legalises many benign drugs, fixes the education system, and speeds up the healthcare bill
-he actually stands up to the congress critters
-repeals wealthy tax cuts, proposes cuts in military spending, and encourages business to bring production stateside

It's never going to happen, though. (sigh)

mod3072: I'm sure it will be fine. You guys are all just paranoid. It's not like granting the president (any president) the power to arrest and detain anyone he/she chooses and quietly lock them away forever with no rights and no legal representation would ever be abused. They're not going to just start rounding up political dissidents, malcontents and political rivals and detain them forever without having to even try to prove that they've broken the law! That would just be wrong. Anyone who is elected president is obviously an astute politician, and if there is one group of people that we can trust to be honest, forthright, moral, ethical and upstanding, it's politicians and lawyers.

If you left off the last line this might have become an epic troll. Also, usually in an Obama thread we get a bunch of trolls pooping out derp diarrhea but is there anyone who has the creativity to come up with a reason this is a good thing? Gary are you here?

Rihlsul: Some congresscritters are trying to fix the horror show already:

http://www.unitedliberty.org/articles/9213-senators-introduce-the-du e- process-guarantee-act (new window)

That's all well and good for US citizens, but what about the rest of the people? Why isn't anyone up in arms about the indefinite detention without trial for ANYBODY? That should not be allowed. This is the 21st century in the western world - I thought there was such as thing as human rights. If you think someone did something wrong or illegal, charge them and prosecute them.

I realize things are different with wars and POWs and the like, but the big problem is that this war, by definition, cannot end. It's a war on terror. You cann't win a war on a general idea. Terror will never be eliminated. It's like declaring a war on sadness. Therefore, by definition, this war will go on FOREVER, meaning anybody detained "until the end of hostilities" will be locked up until "we say so."


//I now see the article has been updated (or changed), and that this subject has been noted

I told anyone who would listen how dangerous this shiat was but all I got was "oooooh, but we need the tools to protect us from the scary scary terrorists".

You can only blame yourselves for standing by and letting it happen.

If G.W. Bush had asked for this legislation there would have been mass protests from every quarter.
Obama is going to sign legislation FAR WORSE than the WORST excesses of G.W. Bush and there are still IDIOTS on Fark who will happily vote to reelect him!
If you are not voting third party in EVERY election at every level YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM and YOU ARE TO BLAME FOR THIS LEGISLATION!