FARK.com: (6820507) Benton Harbor, Michigan is a model for the future. A future where corporations get millions in tax breaks to build their headquarters and private golf courses on public land and the mayor and city council can be fired by the governor on a whim

		Benton Harbor, Michigan is a model for the future. A future where corporations get millions in tax breaks to build their headquarters and private golf courses on public land and the mayor and city council can be fired by the governor on a whim (nytimes.com)		86
		More: Asinine

• • •

2234 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Dec 2011 at 8:08 AM | Favorite | share:

more» |

Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends!

shirt it!

Share this link:

URL:

http://fk.cm/go/6820507

Bookmark:

Article Comments close

86 Comments (+0 »)

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

RexTalionis

2011-12-16 07:41:01 AM

RexTalionis

2011-12-16 07:46:53 AM

It's not supposed to be a how-to manual.

/Although a real life Robocop would kick ass.
//Dead or alive, you're coming with me.

HMS_Blinkin

2011-12-16 08:20:47 AM

1. Benton Harbor has always been all kinds of farked up. The income inequality for such a small town is staggering. 2. Rick Snyder is the kind of idiot Republican who gets all butthurt about big gov't, but then turns around and starts taking over cities. (itsokwhenwedoit.jpg) There is a fight about this with regard to Detroit right now, Gov. Snyder wants to appoint some carpetbaggers to basically be dictators while the people who live in Detroit (yes, people, in the plural sense) want to be governed by those whom they elected.

But yeah, Benton Harbor being terrible isn't really news.

MyRandomName

2011-12-16 08:25:50 AM

Bell, California
Vallejo, California
Reading, Pennsylvania
Camden, New Jersey
Hamtramck, Michigan
...

And so forth. What's that. Both extremes can be terrible places?

LL316

2011-12-16 08:27:42 AM

HMS_Blinkin: 1. Benton Harbor has always been all kinds of farked up. The income inequality for such a small town is staggering. 2. Rick Snyder is the kind of idiot Republican who gets all butthurt about big gov't, but then turns around and starts taking over cities. (itsokwhenwedoit.jpg) There is a fight about this with regard to Detroit right now, Gov. Snyder wants to appoint some carpetbaggers to basically be dictators while the people who live in Detroit (yes, people, in the plural sense) want to be governed by those whom they elected.

But yeah, Benton Harbor being terrible isn't really news.

In the past 50+ years, what have Detroit residents done to prove they're capable of governing themselves? My taxes way over here on the West side of the state continue to go into that money pit. So, yeah, if Snyder thinks he can do better then Snyder needs to do better. Or just stop giving state taxes to that worthless city.

HotWingConspiracy

2011-12-16 08:31:34 AM

LL316: In the past 50+ years, what have Detroit residents done to prove they're capable of governing themselves?

Which law says they need to meet some burden of proof for self-governance?

Muta

2011-12-16 08:38:04 AM

LL316: In the past 50+ years, what have Detroit residents done to prove they're capable of governing themselves?

I live in the United States of America which is a nation founded on the principle that people should be governed by the representatives they elect. What totalitarian dictatorship do you live in?

Philip Francis Queeg

2011-12-16 08:44:10 AM

Government of the corporation, for the corporation, by the corporation.

Bad_Seed

2011-12-16 09:01:17 AM

They included a free 10-week course, "Bridges Out of Poverty," designed to prepare residents culturally to join the middle class. "Moving out of the culture of poverty requires more than an increase in financial means . . . and accepting achievement as the driving force in one's life," the course description read. "It will require one to learn and use middle-class language and behaviors.

...

This is the competing narrative of what's going on in Benton Harbor: It's being converted into a resort town for wealthy weekenders and Whirlpool employees - that, when all is said and done, its struggling black population will either be driven out by the development or reduced to low-wage jobs cleaning hotel rooms, carrying golf bags or cutting grass.

Hence the need for "middle-class language and behaviors". We can't have the serving Negroes getting all mouthy, now can we?

KiplingKat872

2011-12-16 09:09:50 AM

Welcome to the future, William Gibson called it.

jbuist

2011-12-16 09:11:06 AM

HMS_Blinkin: But yeah, Benton Harbor being terrible isn't really news.

Indeed. They've been under state control since the Granholm years.

King Something

2011-12-16 09:13:16 AM

You own two cows. Your lord takes all of the milk.

Big Jimmy Oswald

2011-12-16 09:17:00 AM

I hear the Weirs have a vacation home there. On Benton Harbor Street.

ajt167

2011-12-16 09:18:54 AM

MyRandomName: Bell, California
Vallejo, California
Reading, Pennsylvania
Camden, New Jersey
Hamtramck, Michigan
...

And so forth. What's that. Both extremes can be terrible places?

I lived in Reading, PA for a while and it's nowhere near as bad as Camden. It's got an IMAX!

HMS_Blinkin

2011-12-16 09:19:26 AM

LL316: HMS_Blinkin: 1. Benton Harbor has always been all kinds of farked up. The income inequality for such a small town is staggering. 2. Rick Snyder is the kind of idiot Republican who gets all butthurt about big gov't, but then turns around and starts taking over cities. (itsokwhenwedoit.jpg) There is a fight about this with regard to Detroit right now, Gov. Snyder wants to appoint some carpetbaggers to basically be dictators while the people who live in Detroit (yes, people, in the plural sense) want to be governed by those whom they elected.

But yeah, Benton Harbor being terrible isn't really news.

In the past 50+ years, what have Detroit residents done to prove they're capable of governing themselves? My taxes way over here on the West side of the state continue to go into that money pit. So, yeah, if Snyder thinks he can do better then Snyder needs to do better. Or just stop giving state taxes to that worthless city.

I live on the West Side (hello from Holland!), but I don't think the issue is that cut-and-dried. Sure, the Detroit people have elected some real mouth-breathers, but that is only a part of larger issues, namely auto manufacturing jobs going elsewhere. They're a one-trick-pony economy and the people who live there now can't really be blamed for the way the city developed from the 1920s-1950s.

Besides, I think "worthless" is a little harsh. Sure Detroit has fallen on hard times but they can become a smaller and more prosperous city if they work on diversifying their economy and attracting the right kind of business. There's going to be a tumor of unemployed former autoworkers who refuse to either move or get better education, but on the whole there are some signs for cautious long-term optimism about Detroit.

FuturePastNow

2011-12-16 09:33:19 AM

Aidan

2011-12-16 09:53:40 AM

LL316: In the past 50+ years, what have Detroit residents done to prove they're capable of governing themselves?

What the... What the hell are you on about?

My taxes way over here on the West side of the state continue to go into that money pit.

Oh... Right. :\ Nevermind.

Look. I'm in Oakland Co. I even pay for the zoo. And I don't mind. Hell, I'd chip in a bit more if it meant that Bing could bulldoze more abandoned houses and get more of his plan in gear. Of course there's that financial manager thing coming up and it looks like there's no way around it. Shame, because I really thought Bing was doing well, despite all the push-back (and right-wingers on the West Side... Hi!).

Aidan

2011-12-16 09:57:51 AM

HMS_Blinkin: But yeah, Benton Harbor being terrible isn't really news.

You totally forgot to mention the shiatty driving! :)

Aidan

2011-12-16 09:58:53 AM

Aidan: HMS_Blinkin: But yeah, Benton Harbor being terrible isn't really news.

You totally forgot to mention the shiatty driving! :)

Wait... I meant Keego Harbor. Ignore my previous comment.

RminusQ

2011-12-16 10:02:10 AM

Muta: LL316: In the past 50+ years, what have Detroit residents done to prove they're capable of governing themselves?

I live in the United States of America which is a nation founded on the principle that people should be governed by the representatives they elect. What totalitarian dictatorship do you live in?

I mean, this is basically an overthrowing of local government. This has to be blatantly unconstitutional and impeachable. Good thing it's those darkies who are having their right to self-government taken away, or we might have some of those Tea Partiers show up armed this time to fight the loss of human and citizen rights.

Generation_D

2011-12-16 10:04:26 AM

Or just stop giving state taxes to that worthless city.

You mean "black" when you say "worthless" right? Come on just say it.

jbuist

2011-12-16 10:11:40 AM

RminusQ: I mean, this is basically an overthrowing of local government. This has to be blatantly unconstitutional and impeachable.

We've the EFM laws in Michigan for the last 21 years. I don't believe it has ever been challenged.

Alphax

2011-12-16 10:18:21 AM

jbuist: RminusQ: I mean, this is basically an overthrowing of local government. This has to be blatantly unconstitutional and impeachable.

We've the EFM laws in Michigan for the last 21 years. I don't believe it has ever been challenged.

New powers this year to assume total and complete power over a town.

I alone am best

2011-12-16 10:22:08 AM

Well, the mayor and city council were not fired. So you know thats a lie.

I alone am best

2011-12-16 10:24:06 AM

Generation_D: Or just stop giving state taxes to that worthless city.

You mean "black" when you say "worthless" right? Come on just say it.

RACE CARD !!!! !!! RACE CARD!!!!! !

That means you win automagically!@!

tznnmp

2011-12-16 10:26:32 AM

Muta: LL316: In the past 50+ years, what have Detroit residents done to prove they're capable of governing themselves?

I live in the United States of America which is a nation founded on the principle that people should be governed by the representatives they elect. What totalitarian dictatorship do you live in?

Except that the state gives Detroit the legal ability to exist. Michigan can just decide not to renew Detroit's "tabs" and which it then stops being a city.

All of us in Michigan elected the state government to do its job, which is to govern all of Michigan. How it splits up it's counties, cities and townships is entirely Michigan's prerogative...or I'd just create "tznnmp township" and start paying myself property taxes.

Hollie Maea

2011-12-16 10:35:22 AM

I read electric meters in Benton Harbor one summer. It was a bit scary.

I alone am best

2011-12-16 10:40:34 AM

tznnmp: Muta: LL316: In the past 50+ years, what have Detroit residents done to prove they're capable of governing themselves?

I live in the United States of America which is a nation founded on the principle that people should be governed by the representatives they elect. What totalitarian dictatorship do you live in?

Except that the state gives Detroit the legal ability to exist. Michigan can just decide not to renew Detroit's "tabs" and which it then stops being a city.

All of us in Michigan elected the state government to do its job, which is to govern all of Michigan. How it splits up it's counties, cities and townships is entirely Michigan's prerogative...or I'd just create "tznnmp township" and start paying myself property taxes.

NO! Your logic and reason will not get in the way of my outrage!!

slayer199

2011-12-16 10:44:25 AM

"But the erosion of Benton Harbor's underlying finances has been accompanied by a history of almost farcical mismanagement. Between 2000 and 2010, no fewer than five city administrators filed whistleblower lawsuits against the city, claiming that they had lost their jobs after raising questions about how the elected officials were running the government. Most were settled out of court, costing the city - or its insurers, anyway - a total of more than $2 million.

The latest plaintiff was Richard Marsh, Benton Harbor's city manager from March 2008 to September 2009, who claimed that the city commission had declined to renew his contract after he went public with the findings of an independent internal audit and requested an F.B.I. investigation of the government's management of the city. Marsh settled with Benton Harbor for $192,000, but the state subsequently sent its own financial review team to the town, which in turn led to Harris's appointment in April 2010. "

Yes subby, clearly it's a corporate conspiracy against poor minorities.

Precious Roy's Horse Dividers

2011-12-16 10:45:05 AM

Big Jimmy Oswald: I hear the Weirs have a vacation home there. On Benton Harbor Street.

Came for Freaks and Geeks reference. Leaving satisfied.

qorkfiend

2011-12-16 10:46:33 AM

tznnmp: All of us in Michigan elected the state government to do its job, which is to govern all of Michigan.

All the people in Detroit elected the city government to do its job, which is to govern all of Detroit. Why do you think it is acceptable to have a central executive appoint unaccountable, unelected people with absolute power - we can call them "lords" or something - in their given areas? Do you think that the President of the United States should have the power to appoint governors of states that he has determined are fiscally irresponsible? If so, why? If not, why should a state governor have that power?

YixilTesiphon

2011-12-16 10:56:16 AM

qorkfiend: tznnmp: All of us in Michigan elected the state government to do its job, which is to govern all of Michigan.

All the people in Detroit elected the city government to do its job, which is to govern all of Detroit. Why do you think it is acceptable to have a central executive appoint unaccountable, unelected people with absolute power - we can call them "lords" or something - in their given areas? Do you think that the President of the United States should have the power to appoint governors of states that he has determined are fiscally irresponsible? If so, why? If not, why should a state governor have that power?

Well, the Constitution of the United States doesn't allow the President to appoint governors, but it's my understanding that the Constitution and subsequent laws of the state of Michigan do allow the governor to appoint city managers under certain circumstances.

This isn't all that unusual - in Texas the state can completely dissolve a school district under certain circumstances.

cmunic8r99

2011-12-16 10:58:44 AM

I'm glad the NY Times picked up on this. I mean, Benton Harbor has only been getting screwed by the Governor and City Manager since April.

Muta

2011-12-16 11:01:52 AM

There's been talk of making Bing the emergency manager. Emergency Managers have the right to dissolve contracts which is great way to break up a union. But a contract is a contract. It'd be the LOLz if the first thing Bing did was dissolve the contract with Manny Malroon that gave him the Ambassador Bridge. Then maybe confiscate the train station as a health risk. Use the power to rape the biggest slum lord in the city.

That won't happen.

kukukupo

2011-12-16 11:06:24 AM

For anyone who wants to rip on Detroit; Benton Harbor is far, far worse. You want to talk about Mad Max times - Benton Harbor is, and has been, living them.

tznnmp

2011-12-16 11:12:28 AM

qorkfiend: tznnmp: All of us in Michigan elected the state government to do its job, which is to govern all of Michigan.

All the people in Detroit elected the city government to do its job, which is to govern all of Detroit. Why do you think it is acceptable to have a central executive appoint unaccountable, unelected people with absolute power - we can call them "lords" or something - in their given areas? Do you think that the President of the United States should have the power to appoint governors of states that he has determined are fiscally irresponsible? If so, why? If not, why should a state governor have that power?

States are mentioned in the constitution...cities, mayors, townships...are not.

There is no constitutional requirement for Detroit to exist. It's like your family voting which channel to watch...no, I don't care if Ed, Edd and Eddy are cool, we are not watching that.

As far as states go... I doubt it, or Lincoln would of been able to avoid a war.

// I prefer Czar over Lord

meat0918

2011-12-16 11:13:09 AM

I thought Flint was that model?

Or has he not fired their leaders yet?

//How much money did the state and feds pour into the auto industry over its decades long life?

Philip Francis Queeg

2011-12-16 11:20:02 AM

tznnmp: qorkfiend: tznnmp: All of us in Michigan elected the state government to do its job, which is to govern all of Michigan.

All the people in Detroit elected the city government to do its job, which is to govern all of Detroit. Why do you think it is acceptable to have a central executive appoint unaccountable, unelected people with absolute power - we can call them "lords" or something - in their given areas? Do you think that the President of the United States should have the power to appoint governors of states that he has determined are fiscally irresponsible? If so, why? If not, why should a state governor have that power?

States are mentioned in the constitution...cities, mayors, townships...are not.

There is no constitutional requirement for Detroit to exist. It's like your family voting which channel to watch...no, I don't care if Ed, Edd and Eddy are cool, we are not watching that.

As far as states go... I doubt it, or Lincoln would of been able to avoid a war.

// I prefer Czar over Lord

So you would have absolutely no complaint if your Governor disolved your local government and appointed an administrator to rule by decree with absolutely no local input or control?

YixilTesiphon

2011-12-16 11:23:46 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: tznnmp: qorkfiend: tznnmp: All of us in Michigan elected the state government to do its job, which is to govern all of Michigan.

All the people in Detroit elected the city government to do its job, which is to govern all of Detroit. Why do you think it is acceptable to have a central executive appoint unaccountable, unelected people with absolute power - we can call them "lords" or something - in their given areas? Do you think that the President of the United States should have the power to appoint governors of states that he has determined are fiscally irresponsible? If so, why? If not, why should a state governor have that power?

States are mentioned in the constitution...cities, mayors, townships...are not.

There is no constitutional requirement for Detroit to exist. It's like your family voting which channel to watch...no, I don't care if Ed, Edd and Eddy are cool, we are not watching that.

As far as states go... I doubt it, or Lincoln would of been able to avoid a war.

// I prefer Czar over Lord

So you would have absolutely no complaint if your Governor disolved your local government and appointed an administrator to rule by decree with absolutely no local input or control?

In my state that can only happen under certain circumstances, which can be summarized as "gross negligence and mismanagement." So...no. I'm fine with that law.

See Wilmer-Hutchins ISD.

tznnmp

2011-12-16 11:33:43 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: tznnmp: qorkfiend: tznnmp: All of us in Michigan elected the state government to do its job, which is to govern all of Michigan.

All the people in Detroit elected the city government to do its job, which is to govern all of Detroit. Why do you think it is acceptable to have a central executive appoint unaccountable, unelected people with absolute power - we can call them "lords" or something - in their given areas? Do you think that the President of the United States should have the power to appoint governors of states that he has determined are fiscally irresponsible? If so, why? If not, why should a state governor have that power?

States are mentioned in the constitution...cities, mayors, townships...are not.

There is no constitutional requirement for Detroit to exist. It's like your family voting which channel to watch...no, I don't care if Ed, Edd and Eddy are cool, we are not watching that.

As far as states go... I doubt it, or Lincoln would of been able to avoid a war.

// I prefer Czar over Lord

So you would have absolutely no complaint if your Governor disolved your local government and appointed an administrator to rule by decree with absolutely no local input or control?

again...the law in Michigan is decided by Michigan. Sometimes crackheads do recover when they get out of jail...it would be the best for everyone, if not just stay in jail.

something to read...

Link (new window)

Boatmech

2011-12-16 11:35:17 AM

"I say good for him, because the people of Benton Harbor brought this on themselves. . . . Benton Harbor's elected officials are incompetent, therefore, by electing them, the voters are incompetent. So they should lose their democracy."
`
Hmmm,
"I say good for him, because the people of Amerca brought this on themselves. . . . America's elected officials are incompetent, therefore, by electing them, the voters are incompetent. So they should lose their democracy."
Sad but true.

monoski

2011-12-16 11:36:43 AM

Anyone listen to the segment on NPR this morning about the Greek version of the GAO and how they are trying to imprison the guy who calculated the debt?

//There is some quality govt model to live by

Philip Francis Queeg

2011-12-16 11:44:30 AM

tznnmp: Philip Francis Queeg: tznnmp: qorkfiend: tznnmp: All of us in Michigan elected the state government to do its job, which is to govern all of Michigan.

All the people in Detroit elected the city government to do its job, which is to govern all of Detroit. Why do you think it is acceptable to have a central executive appoint unaccountable, unelected people with absolute power - we can call them "lords" or something - in their given areas? Do you think that the President of the United States should have the power to appoint governors of states that he has determined are fiscally irresponsible? If so, why? If not, why should a state governor have that power?

States are mentioned in the constitution...cities, mayors, townships...are not.

There is no constitutional requirement for Detroit to exist. It's like your family voting which channel to watch...no, I don't care if Ed, Edd and Eddy are cool, we are not watching that.

As far as states go... I doubt it, or Lincoln would of been able to avoid a war.

// I prefer Czar over Lord

So you would have absolutely no complaint if your Governor disolved your local government and appointed an administrator to rule by decree with absolutely no local input or control?

again...the law in Michigan is decided by Michigan. Sometimes crackheads do recover when they get out of jail...it would be the best for everyone, if not just stay in jail.

something to read...

Link (new window)

That didn't answer my question.

I assume you think YOU deserve local government and to have a voice in how your community is governed, where as the people of Benton Harbor do not.

potterydove

2011-12-16 11:46:11 AM

States are sovereign. Local political subdivisions are not.

Lsherm

2011-12-16 11:54:09 AM

HotWingConspiracy: LL316: In the past 50+ years, what have Detroit residents done to prove they're capable of governing themselves?

Which law says they need to meet some burden of proof for self-governance?

Presumably whatever one they are using to install a city manager. I'm too lazy to look it up.

Neanderthal

2011-12-16 11:59:21 AM

You mean a democracy is piss poor at actually getting anything done? Who woulda thunk it?

tznnmp

2011-12-16 12:06:30 PM

Philip Francis Queeg: tznnmp: Philip Francis Queeg: tznnmp: qorkfiend: tznnmp: All of us in Michigan elected the state government to do its job, which is to govern all of Michigan.

All the people in Detroit elected the city government to do its job, which is to govern all of Detroit. Why do you think it is acceptable to have a central executive appoint unaccountable, unelected people with absolute power - we can call them "lords" or something - in their given areas? Do you think that the President of the United States should have the power to appoint governors of states that he has determined are fiscally irresponsible? If so, why? If not, why should a state governor have that power?

States are mentioned in the constitution...cities, mayors, townships...are not.

There is no constitutional requirement for Detroit to exist. It's like your family voting which channel to watch...no, I don't care if Ed, Edd and Eddy are cool, we are not watching that.

As far as states go... I doubt it, or Lincoln would of been able to avoid a war.

// I prefer Czar over Lord

So you would have absolutely no complaint if your Governor disolved your local government and appointed an administrator to rule by decree with absolutely no local input or control?

again...the law in Michigan is decided by Michigan. Sometimes crackheads do recover when they get out of jail...it would be the best for everyone, if not just stay in jail.

something to read...

Link (new window)

That didn't answer my question.

I assume you think YOU deserve local government and to have a voice in how your community is governed, where as the people of Benton Harbor do not.

I actually liked it when I searched out and negotiated with a trash collection company. Last year my local government decided to mandate a specific vendor and hang the deed to my house over my head if I decided to not go along and pay the additional taxes. Apparently some people didn't think they needed to have their trash removed forcing the big bad local government to wield it's hammer with the new mandate.

So which side am I on? The one where the big government kicks the ass of some morons or the side where I'm against bigger government infringing on my freedom to pick a trash collector? It all depends, living in and around Detroit...seeing that it takes 60 minutes for an ambulance or sending fire trucks with no ability to spray water...In this case, Detroit is the moron who needs their ass kicked.

Aidan

2011-12-16 12:06:37 PM

Muta: There's been talk of making Bing the emergency manager. Emergency Managers have the right to dissolve contracts which is great way to break up a union. But a contract is a contract. It'd be the LOLz if the first thing Bing did was dissolve the contract with Manny Malroon that gave him the Ambassador Bridge. Then maybe confiscate the train station as a health risk. Use the power to rape the biggest slum lord in the city.

I have the weirdest boner right now...

I farking despise Matty Moroun, and while I don't wish him to die horribly in pain, I WILL read his eventual obituary with much pleasure. He has single-handedly done MUCH damage to Detroit and Michigan. He's not the only one, but he can clearly be pointed to and described as; "This man is evil."

I'm still so disgusted that the International Bridge died. And it looks like the light rail project is dead too, although I can't blame that one on Moroun... As far as I know.

qorkfiend

2011-12-16 12:09:11 PM

tznnmp: States are mentioned in the constitution...cities, mayors, townships...are not.

There is no constitutional requirement for Detroit to exist. It's like your family voting which channel to watch...no, I don't care if Ed, Edd and Eddy are cool, we are not watching that.

As far as states go... I doubt it, or Lincoln would of been able to avoid a war.

I didn't ask if it was legal or Constitutional or not. I asked why you believe it is acceptable.

qorkfiend

2011-12-16 12:10:34 PM

YixilTesiphon: Well, the Constitution of the United States doesn't allow the President to appoint governors, but it's my understanding that the Constitution and subsequent laws of the state of Michigan do allow the governor to appoint city managers under certain circumstances.

This isn't all that unusual - in Texas the state can completely dissolve a school district under certain circumstances.

I didn't ask if it was legal or Constitutional or not. I asked why you believe it is acceptable.

Displayed 50 of 86 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

Redisplay/refresh comments

This thread is closed to new comments.