Majick Thise: and yet at my company (auto industry) we have been ordered to work over our normal christmas shutdown... and we worked thanksgiving We are producing more auto parts now than at anytime in the last 20 years and still we can't keep up with demand.

Are those parts destined for new cars, or parts to replace the broken ones on used cars?

1) The unemployment report from the government included the data about people dropping out of the workforce.
2) Why would the government "lie" by telling us bad news? It's at least a very different kind of "lie" from the first thing.

Also, FTA: (By the way, Limbaugh's arithmetic is all wrong, but this isn't a story about him.)

Lord Dimwit: Have the unemployment numbers ever included people who have stopped looking for work? If not, then the government isn't lying to us - it's using the same statistics it always has. Without consistent statistics, meaningful comparison year-by-year is impossible.

As I understand, the headline unemployment number that you see in news releases every month follows an international standard that's been around for a while. The BLS also conducts surveys for a lot of other information such as the size of the overall workforce as a percentage of the working population, which I think has been steadily dropping since 2007 (although I think it's leveled off).

The answer is yes, it's a lie. Until the GOP decides it's time to take credit for the improvements. Then it's all legit and they rescued us all.

At least in my area of the country (the Pacific NW) we're starting to fire on all cylinders. Boeing is getting a massive amount of new contracts for planes (a number of my formerly unemployed friends have been getting machinists jobs there, and earning bank), Amazon is still hiring like mad and making money hand over fist, and the rest of my formerly unemployed or underemployed friends have been getting good IT jobs at Microsoft - including one college buddy who's been stuck at Best Buy's Geek Squad for 3 years, now working for the Halo division.

Almost all of this has happened for them in the past 2-3 months.

Hint: The government has always been lying to you. You've just taken this opportunity to take notice. Weird that there's a black man in the White House when you became all political.

10,000 people stop looking for work everyday, it's called the baby boom retirement, guess what they don't pay no employment taxes either. lazy ass retired people

Lord Dimwit: Without consistent statistics, meaningful comparison year-by-year is impossible.

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Anybody ever actually TRY living out of a car as more than a short stopgap? I've considered getting a nondescript camper van in the past-- not out of need, but because if I could just walk out of my office and hop in a converted panel van with a couch, big TV, and an xbox, I'd have like an extra 90 minutes a day over commuting. Not to mention the insane cost-of-living reductions.

The primary logistical questions are:

1. Where should you park overnight to sleep? I don't want to get towed while I'm sacked out or a random security guard knocking on the windshield getting me up at 3am.
2. Will they deliver pizza to "the white van at the corner of 39th and 78th?"

The rest is pretty much a solved problem. Gym's open 24 hours, and I already shower there most days before work anyway. Already have morning coffee and lunch at the office-- having breakfast there too would be trivial. DirecTV works anywhere. They have the internet on phones.

It's unlikely to actually happen unless my wife were to up and leave me, but I can see some serious advantages to living in a van even when you're making good money at a steady job. Particularly if you're a low-maintenance person whose hobbies mostly involve television, computers, or driving a van somewhere to go camping.

raygundan: Particularly if you're a low-maintenance person whose hobbies mostly involve television, computers, or driving a van somewhere to go camping.

Don't forget candy overhead, for luring toddlers into your panel van.

raygundan: Anybody ever actually TRY living out of a car as more than a short stopgap? I've considered getting a nondescript camper van in the past-- not out of need, but because if I could just walk out of my office and hop in a converted panel van with a couch, big TV, and an xbox, I'd have like an extra 90 minutes a day over commuting. Not to mention the insane cost-of-living reductions.

The primary logistical questions are:

1. Where should you park overnight to sleep? I don't want to get towed while I'm sacked out or a random security guard knocking on the windshield getting me up at 3am.
2. Will they deliver pizza to "the white van at the corner of 39th and 78th?"

The rest is pretty much a solved problem. Gym's open 24 hours, and I already shower there most days before work anyway. Already have morning coffee and lunch at the office-- having breakfast there too would be trivial. DirecTV works anywhere. They have the internet on phones.

It's unlikely to actually happen unless my wife were to up and leave me, but I can see some serious advantages to living in a van even when you're making good money at a steady job. Particularly if you're a low-maintenance person whose hobbies mostly involve television, computers, or driving a van somewhere to go camping.

No pizza delivery, but you could drive to a pizza place, and like, get out of the car.

GoodyearPimp: Hint: The government has always been lying to you. You've just taken this opportunity to take notice. Weird that there's a black man in the White House when you became all political.

Sad to see that you, or anyone for that matter, would think this has anything to do with race. The press has been accusing the government of providing misleading statistics for as long as I've been reading the newspapers (during the Reagan years). It will continue whether our next president is white, yellow, black, green or blue.

MrSteve007: At least in my area of the country (the Pacific NW) we're starting to fire on all cylinders. Boeing is getting a massive amount of new contracts for planes (a number of my formerly unemployed friends have been getting machinists jobs there, and earning bank), Amazon is still hiring like mad and making money hand over fist, and the rest of my formerly unemployed or underemployed friends have been getting good IT jobs at Microsoft - including one college buddy who's been stuck at Best Buy's Geek Squad for 3 years, now working for the Halo division.

Almost all of this has happened for them in the past 2-3 months.

Boeing is hiring there and severely cutting everywhere else(Alaska, SoCal, Huntsville, etc). Not all peachy keen, but the civilian aerospace division does seem to be doing better

Majick Thise: dittybopper: Majick Thise: and yet at my company (auto industry) we have been ordered to work over our normal christmas shutdown... and we worked thanksgiving We are producing more auto parts now than at anytime in the last 20 years and still we can't keep up with demand.

Are those parts destined for new cars, or parts to replace the broken ones on used cars?

We make 100% OEM parts (original equipment manufacturer) for many different car makers. Ford, GM, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Citroen, and others

Which makes sense since Subaru, Nissan, Toyota, Honda, etc have had supply issues since the Japan quake that will take time to catch back up on

raygundan: 1. Where should you park overnight to sleep? I don't want to get towed while I'm sacked out or a random security guard knocking on the windshield getting me up at 3am.

depends on where you are. some businesses DGAF about parking in their lots overnight, as long as your vehicle:
A: isn't a total shiatheap (no rust, not falling apart)
B: isn't a mobile billboard
C: they don't fill the parking lot on a regular basis.

The gov't will tell you inflation is about 3% when it's really about twice that. They do this to keep us calm.

Katie98_KT: raygundan: Anybody ever actually TRY living out of a car as more than a short stopgap? I've considered getting a nondescript camper van in the past-- not out of need, but because if I could just walk out of my office and hop in a converted panel van with a couch, big TV, and an xbox, I'd have like an extra 90 minutes a day over commuting. Not to mention the insane cost-of-living reductions.

The primary logistical questions are:

1. Where should you park overnight to sleep? I don't want to get towed while I'm sacked out or a random security guard knocking on the windshield getting me up at 3am.
2. Will they deliver pizza to "the white van at the corner of 39th and 78th?"

The rest is pretty much a solved problem. Gym's open 24 hours, and I already shower there most days before work anyway. Already have morning coffee and lunch at the office-- having breakfast there too would be trivial. DirecTV works anywhere. They have the internet on phones.

It's unlikely to actually happen unless my wife were to up and leave me, but I can see some serious advantages to living in a van even when you're making good money at a steady job. Particularly if you're a low-maintenance person whose hobbies mostly involve television, computers, or driving a van somewhere to go camping.

No pizza delivery, but you could drive to a pizza place, and like, get out of the car.

I can't get out of the van right now, I'm in the middle of something in Skyrim. But it did occur to me after I posted that I could just have them deliver to the office before I leave for the evening.

Majick Thise: dittybopper: Majick Thise: and yet at my company (auto industry) we have been ordered to work over our normal christmas shutdown... and we worked thanksgiving We are producing more auto parts now than at anytime in the last 20 years and still we can't keep up with demand.

Are those parts destined for new cars, or parts to replace the broken ones on used cars?

We make 100% OEM parts (original equipment manufacturer) for many different car makers. Ford, GM, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Citroen, and others

So you make American car parts for the American working man, because that's who you are and that's who you care about?

Man On Fire: raygundan: 1. Where should you park overnight to sleep? I don't want to get towed while I'm sacked out or a random security guard knocking on the windshield getting me up at 3am.

depends on where you are. some businesses DGAF about parking in their lots overnight, as long as your vehicle:
A: isn't a total shiatheap (no rust, not falling apart)
B: isn't a mobile billboard
C: they don't fill the parking lot on a regular basis.

Right. That's the idea. A camper van, but one that looks like a plain old van someone is using as a daily driver or a work van. Your second point, though, I'm unsure on-- if you mean those shrinkwrapped cars that are literally used as billboards, then yeah, I agree. But it had occurred to me that putting some small text on the vehicle, like "Raygundan and Sons Solar Panel and Satellite Installation" on the side would instantly solve the incongruity of the directv dish and the solar panels that power the xbox. I could even incorporate before I put the solar panels and the satellite dish up there, so I can honestly claim to be a business that has installed solar panels and satellite dishes if asked about it.

[This post has been censored by the United States Government under the SOPA Act]

GlobalThunder: So you make American car parts for the American working man, because that's who you are and that's who you care about?

yesssssssssssss

Lord Dimwit: I think he's essentially buying the yacht he can afford.

That sums it up nicely.

GlobalThunder: So you make American car parts for the American working man, because that's who you are and that's who you care about?

I see what you did there.

raygundan: 1. Where should you park overnight to sleep? I don't want to get towed while I'm sacked out or a random security guard knocking on the windshield getting me up at 3am.

Depends on the business, and your mileage may vary, but if your 24 hour gym is 24 Hr Fitness, then they probably won't care. People leave cars for days/weeks at a time in the parking lot at the one here, and there have definitely been enormous campers there for 5-6 days too. I left my car there for 5 days while I was getting a new radiator in and then swapped it out in the parking lot. It is a pretty damn big parking lot though.

Katie98_KT: raygundan: Anybody ever actually TRY living out of a car as more than a short stopgap? I've considered getting a nondescript camper van in the past-- not out of need, but because if I could just walk out of my office and hop in a converted panel van with a couch, big TV, and an xbox, I'd have like an extra 90 minutes a day over commuting. Not to mention the insane cost-of-living reductions.

The primary logistical questions are:

1. Where should you park overnight to sleep? I don't want to get towed while I'm sacked out or a random security guard knocking on the windshield getting me up at 3am.
2. Will they deliver pizza to "the white van at the corner of 39th and 78th?"

The rest is pretty much a solved problem. Gym's open 24 hours, and I already shower there most days before work anyway. Already have morning coffee and lunch at the office-- having breakfast there too would be trivial. DirecTV works anywhere. They have the internet on phones.

It's unlikely to actually happen unless my wife were to up and leave me, but I can see some serious advantages to living in a van even when you're making good money at a steady job. Particularly if you're a low-maintenance person whose hobbies mostly involve television, computers, or driving a van somewhere to go camping.

No pizza delivery, but you could drive to a pizza place, and like, get out of the car.

Related question: if I have a few beers while I watch the game while parked in my van-house, am I going to get a DUI? If yes, will it help if I install my own breathalyzer interlock up front?

VTGremlin: raygundan: 1. Where should you park overnight to sleep? I don't want to get towed while I'm sacked out or a random security guard knocking on the windshield getting me up at 3am.

Depends on the business, and your mileage may vary, but if your 24 hour gym is 24 Hr Fitness, then they probably won't care. People leave cars for days/weeks at a time in the parking lot at the one here, and there have definitely been enormous campers there for 5-6 days too. I left my car there for 5 days while I was getting a new radiator in and then swapped it out in the parking lot. It is a pretty damn big parking lot though.

That's it. Next time my wife's on a business trip, I'm throwing a sleeping bag and laptop in the car and testing this out in the gym parking lot. I mean, honestly, I normally go minimalist backpacking when she's out of town like that, so sleeping in the car in a parking lot covered by the gym's wifi is going to be more comfortable than what I would have been doing on purpose anyway.

She'll probably make fun of me for a month afterwards, but meh. I'll get 90 extra minutes of Skyrim per day, and won't ever have to miss a morning workout because of traffic.

/some nerds are in shape
//shut up

raygundan: Katie98_KT: raygundan: Anybody ever actually TRY living out of a car as more than a short stopgap? I've considered getting a nondescript camper van in the past-- not out of need, but because if I could just walk out of my office and hop in a converted panel van with a couch, big TV, and an xbox, I'd have like an extra 90 minutes a day over commuting. Not to mention the insane cost-of-living reductions.

The primary logistical questions are:

1. Where should you park overnight to sleep? I don't want to get towed while I'm sacked out or a random security guard knocking on the windshield getting me up at 3am.
2. Will they deliver pizza to "the white van at the corner of 39th and 78th?"

The rest is pretty much a solved problem. Gym's open 24 hours, and I already shower there most days before work anyway. Already have morning coffee and lunch at the office-- having breakfast there too would be trivial. DirecTV works anywhere. They have the internet on phones.

It's unlikely to actually happen unless my wife were to up and leave me, but I can see some serious advantages to living in a van even when you're making good money at a steady job. Particularly if you're a low-maintenance person whose hobbies mostly involve television, computers, or driving a van somewhere to go camping.

No pizza delivery, but you could drive to a pizza place, and like, get out of the car.

Related question: if I have a few beers while I watch the game while parked in my van-house, am I going to get a DUI? If yes, will it help if I install my own breathalyzer interlock up front?

Yup. Drunk + inside of a vehicle = DUI, even if the vehicle isn't running.

Lord Dimwit: Have the unemployment numbers ever included people who have stopped looking for work?

For about the millionth time, that has always been included in U6. U3 is commonly reported and the calculation hasn't changed in decades.

And by the way, U6 dropped almost a point Oct-Nov.

natazha: And by the way, U6 dropped almost a point Oct-Nov.

How the hell is that even possible, when the total number of people employed dropped from 154,198,000 to 153,883,000? That's 315,000 civilian jobs lost...did the government hire a million people last month?

Lord Dimwit: raygundan: VTGremlin: raygundan: 1. Where should you park overnight to sleep? I don't want to get towed while I'm sacked out or a random security guard knocking on the windshield getting me up at 3am.

Depends on the business, and your mileage may vary, but if your 24 hour gym is 24 Hr Fitness, then they probably won't care. People leave cars for days/weeks at a time in the parking lot at the one here, and there have definitely been enormous campers there for 5-6 days too. I left my car there for 5 days while I was getting a new radiator in and then swapped it out in the parking lot. It is a pretty damn big parking lot though.

That's it. Next time my wife's on a business trip, I'm throwing a sleeping bag and laptop in the car and testing this out in the gym parking lot. I mean, honestly, I normally go minimalist backpacking when she's out of town like that, so sleeping in the car in a parking lot covered by the gym's wifi is going to be more comfortable than what I would have been doing on purpose anyway.

She'll probably make fun of me for a month afterwards, but meh. I'll get 90 extra minutes of Skyrim per day, and won't ever have to miss a morning workout because of traffic.

/some nerds are in shape
//shut up

I once dated a woman who would go minimalist backpacking (though she didn't use the term) at random. It got kinda annoying - she would "get the call" and just vanish for a week or so. She also was really new-agey. I finally gave up when she had a relatively serious medical emergency and refused to go to the doctor because Western medicine could do nothing for her, in her estimation. It was a shame, because aside from the crazy, we really got along and she was physically way out of my league.

This is a problem as well. A guy planning to live in a van has only two options here: commit to being single, or date one of those. It is, as has been pointed out, the primary thing that keeps this as only a thought exercise for me.

A woman planning on living in a van with satellite tv and an xbox can probably have her pick of men.

DarthBart:
Related question: if I have a few beers while I watch the game while parked in my van-house, am I going to get a DUI? If yes, will it help if I install my own breathalyzer interlock up front?

Yup. Drunk + inside of a vehicle = DUI, even if the vehicle isn't running.

If I were to mount the television so it could swivel to face outside with the door open, and carry a lawnchair, is this sufficient for it to become "tailgating?" Or does that just make it "drunk in public?"

raygundan: Katie98_KT: raygundan: Anybody ever actually TRY living out of a car as more than a short stopgap? I've considered getting a nondescript camper van in the past-- not out of need, but because if I could just walk out of my office and hop in a converted panel van with a couch, big TV, and an xbox, I'd have like an extra 90 minutes a day over commuting. Not to mention the insane cost-of-living reductions.

The primary logistical questions are:

1. Where should you park overnight to sleep? I don't want to get towed while I'm sacked out or a random security guard knocking on the windshield getting me up at 3am.
2. Will they deliver pizza to "the white van at the corner of 39th and 78th?"

The rest is pretty much a solved problem. Gym's open 24 hours, and I already shower there most days before work anyway. Already have morning coffee and lunch at the office-- having breakfast there too would be trivial. DirecTV works anywhere. They have the internet on phones.

It's unlikely to actually happen unless my wife were to up and leave me, but I can see some serious advantages to living in a van even when you're making good money at a steady job. Particularly if you're a low-maintenance person whose hobbies mostly involve television, computers, or driving a van somewhere to go camping.

No pizza delivery, but you could drive to a pizza place, and like, get out of the car.

Related question: if I have a few beers while I watch the game while parked in my van-house, am I going to get a DUI? If yes, will it help if I install my own breathalyzer interlock up front?

If your vehicle is licensed as an RV, you're good. If not, you get a DUI. Happened to a buddy of mine WAY back in the day than lived in his van in the Denny's parking lot he worked at.

/had some mighty fine parties in that there van

Raygundan
Yes on the OUI for being in the car while drunk. They even told us in drivers' ed 20 years ago that they changed the law from DWI to OUI specifically for that reason. The reasoning they gave was along the lines of, "how did the car get here if you didn't drive it?" I would imagine that whether you get the ticket would depend on how sympathetic the cop is to a) vagrants, and b) nerds.

Living in a camper/van is a pretty common thing here in Los Angeles. People park their cars on the side streets for a week at a time (street sweeping means they have to move it once a week). A lot of the business parking lots crack down, though.

As for pizza delivery, I know for a fact that many pizza places won't deliver to non-addresses. I tried to have pizza delivered to a group of friends in line waiting for a midnight movie opening while I was in college. Nobody would do it.

Majick Thise: and yet at my company (auto industry) we have been ordered to work over our normal christmas shutdown... and we worked thanksgiving We are producing more auto parts now than at anytime in the last 20 years and still we can't keep up with demand.

And the tech sector in this are a can't post enough jobs. PayPal has its Eastern HQ around here and can't stop posting jobs.

Over the summer, strawberries were dirt cheap. Now all of a sudden they're super expensive.

Therefore, inflation is at like 300% and the economy is totally farked!

If by "lying" you mean "publishing the data" then yes I suppose.

I like the graphic provided by Occam's Nailfile, but it's practically hopium compared to the longer term chart:



Now that's a chart.

And then there's the average number of weeks on unemployment. Green shoots!:



Source article at Zerohedge.com. Data current with latest NFP report. More of this can be found at the FRED site of the St. Louis fed, for those with extra time on their hands.

As to the question of whether all of this is BS, if the word 'economic' is attached to it, there's at least some smell of BS present. Comes with the notion that any statistic produced by anybody is really representative of reality.

2 years ago, my empoyer is in red and 4 people were let go (Oh sorry, I mean voluntary early retirement, in tears). This year, we're in red and is busy hiring more people.

Whatever, it's improving as far as I can tell.