Trickle-down DOES NOT WORK!

If the poor and middle class have no money to spend on the goods and services you won't have demand for them. The only way to solve this issue would be to raise taxes on the poor and middle class so the very wealthy can have a tax break.

trickle down only worked in the 80's when rich people were all coked up, it hasn't really been used on its own merits since then

Even with the downturn these executives are making far more money than they used to. If they're too skittish to use the money to make jobs why shouldn't they give it to the government for that purpose?

I won't see any of that tax money either way, so why would I prefer the gov't have it over the company?

I wonder when we'll get past calling rich people "job creators", and start calling talking about the actual job creators (consumers).

Ain`Soph: I wonder when we'll get past calling rich people "job creators", and start calling talking about the actual job creators (consumers).

I wouldn't hold my breath were I you.

Taxing personal income does not deter job creation in meaningful ways. Fromr wharrgarble pinko-commie NPR (new window): "If my taxes go up, I have slightly less disposable income, yes," said Burger, co-owner of CSS International Holdings, a global infrastructure contractor. "But that has nothing to do with what my business does. What my business does is based on the contracts that it wins and the demand for its services."

Writ small, the Republicans aren't wrong: cheaper capital makes expansion easier. But after 30 years of making capital easier and easier to get, we've drained money from those who send the signal to business to expand. It's time to tax the middle class less, and get money flowing through the economy again. That will send the signal that it is safe to take on the added risk of expansion, production and hiring; not cheaper capital absent a market to sell to.

A CEO making over $1,000,000 per year does not use her/his personal income to pay employees. The corporation does. Personal taxation corporate taxation.

Businesses hire when they need more hands to handle their customers. Period.

Taxes simply don't enter into it unless you're talking about strawman-levels of corporate tax that prevent further profit from further sales.
But we've never had taxes that high and no-one's ever suggested anything even close to that. And on the other side, without demand, even 0 taxes would not convince businesses to hire.

So anyone who talks about taxes as being a factor in job creation is either ignorant or transparently disingenuous.

If you want to create jobs, you have to address trade. Right now, what demand does exist is being sucked-up by Asian producers. Sure, Wal*Mart might hire a new checkout girl to handle additional demand, but the money is leaving the country in a big hurry. Making stuff here is going to cause inflation, but I think that we can all agree now that maybe we can handle 3-4% annual inflation if it mean 3-4% unemployment again.

I'm not hiring as long as the tax cuts are temporary. Gotta make the profits while I can. Make them permanent or expire them and i'll reevaluate things.

The recession ended in 2009 ?

Their is only one way to get the economy into the fast lane again and that is to increase demand. This can be accomplished in two ways.

The first is to borrow a trillion dollars and give it directly to those making under 50K a year.

Alternatively we could set up an Employer of Last Resort (ELR) program that directly subsidizes jobs and hires people to work those jobs.

LarryDan43: I'm not hiring as long as the tax cuts are temporary. Gotta make the profits while I can. Make them permanent or expire them and i'll reevaluate things.

Slump at the strap-on factory?

netcentric: The recession ended in 2009 ?

Yes, this is the recovery period. Sadly most people have either forgotten the stages of economic activity from Marco Economics 101 or never took Macro Economics 101. The current recovery has been slow and at times almost stagnant. It did not help the the Republicans grandstanding and almost causing the US government to default on it's obligations slowed the recovery by about two years.

LarryDan43: I'm not hiring as long as the tax cuts are temporary. Gotta make the profits while I can. Make them permanent or expire them and i'll reevaluate things.

Call Obama! This very important internet individual is unable to handle uncertainty with a multi-year horizon.

Slaves2Darkness: The first is to borrow a trillion dollars and give it directly to those making under 50K a year.

We don't even need to borrow it - we can just print it. Send every household a $10000 platinum coin. Sure, inflation will uptick a little but that's a lot less societally painful than an economy staying in the dumpster for a decade.

There's no demand in the US market, therefore there will be no hiring in the US market. Favorable tax legislation (especially income repatriation) will help to increase profit margins and R&D, which will in turn better position US companies to address markets where there's demand: Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa.

Summation: Jobs go where the GDP is spiking, where people have disposable income to buy things they don't need, and that's not the US any more.

Wouldn't it be politically convenient to start reasonably taxing the wealthy and corporations at a reasonable rate again while at the same time the stock market dives? It'd be politically priceless!

Pubs- Your farking laws caused it!

Dems- You pubs farking did it to yourselves!

Me- can I still pay bills and get gas and milk?

Slaves2Darkness: netcentric: The recession ended in 2009 ?

Yes, this is the recovery period.

An analogy:
"Woah...why do I feel so terrible now? I stopped drinking tequila shooters five HOURS ago!"

Nothing is going to change until Wall Street is ankle deep in blood.

Supply-side economics: Can we finally, after 30+ years of middle-class destruction, finally drive a stake through it's cold, black, vampiric heart & bury it in an unmarked grave in unhallowed ground?

TofuTheAlmighty: Slaves2Darkness: The first is to borrow a trillion dollars and give it directly to those making under 50K a year.

We don't even need to borrow it - we can just print it. Send every household a $10000 platinum coin. Sure, inflation will uptick a little but that's a lot less societally painful than an economy staying in the dumpster for a decade.

And when that $10K is spent, what then? Structural problems can't be fixed by temporary infusions of capital.

Sleeping Monkey: Welcome to the make-believe world of supply-side economics

LOL you are a total idiot. In your world, extra taxes will make them hire people!

DROxINxTHExWIND: Jake Havechek: Nothing is going to change until Wall Street is ankle deep in blood.

You sure you want to post shiat like that to an internet message board, Mr. McVeigh?

Fark off.

XveryYpettyZ: Taxing personal income does not deter job creation in meaningful ways. Fromr wharrgarble pinko-commie NPR (new window): "If my taxes go up, I have slightly less disposable income, yes," said Burger, co-owner of CSS International Holdings, a global infrastructure contractor. "But that has nothing to do with what my business does. What my business does is based on the contracts that it wins and the demand for its services."

Writ small, the Republicans aren't wrong: cheaper capital makes expansion easier. But after 30 years of making capital easier and easier to get, we've drained money from those who send the signal to business to expand. It's time to tax the middle class less, and get money flowing through the economy again. That will send the signal that it is safe to take on the added risk of expansion, production and hiring; not cheaper capital absent a market to sell to.

If you think the current GOP coalition gives a micro-millishiat about giving the middle class tax cuts, you were born yesterday under a rock and fed Naive Flakes for breakfast. They know their corporate masters will have to pay more in any scenario short of total state-supported oligarchy, and they would happily scuttle the national economy rather than risk a mere recovery that is not winner-take-all.

You may ask, why would the party - or the business sector - act so irrationally? Because irrational behavior is rewarded. It is the closest thing we know to decisiveness and strength. It gets you short-term power and short-term cash. And in the long term, as Maynard Keynes so wisely observed, we will all be dead. That long term is shorter than ever today.

Behind most post-Reaganite conservative thought - buried so deeply it cannot be consciously acknowledged - is a spirit of millennialism, a foreboding of endtimes and Rapture. It no longer holds any religious manifestation for most, only a sense that everything is going to hell and that only the strongest, meanest, and richest will survive. Or deserve to.

LL316: I won't see any of that tax money either way, so why would I prefer the gov't have it over the company?

Shhhhh, you're going to give away the governments secret.
Get people all worked into a class warfare frenzy. Then placate the masses by taxing the wealthy (exact figures on what is wealthy varies).
General population feels vindicated, although they don't benefit from the increased revenue. Government has more money to use to kill brown people.

I see your rational Writ small, the Republicans aren't wrong: cheaper capital makes expansion easier. But after 30 years of making capital easier and easier to get, we've drained money from those who send the signal to business to expand. It's time to tax the middle class less, and get money flowing through the economy again. That will send the signal that it is safe to take on the added risk of expansion, production and hiring; not cheaper capital absent a market to sell to.

...and raise you a Biraq Kongbama!

Headso: If the poor and middle class have no money to spend on the goods and services you won't have demand for them. The only way to solve this issue would be to raise taxes on the poor and middle class so the very wealthy can have a tax break.

You have given me a reason to go with the rest of the day.

*go on with

stirfrybry: LOL you are a total idiot. In your world, extra taxes will make them hire people!

Why not? Make enough millions and they can face either a $100k tax bill directly to USA, or they can take a risk and use around that much to create a Widgets R Us company and hopefully get a ROI. Since current taxes are way way way less than basically forcing 'Job Creators' to take a risk and go to the work of creating jobs. Paying the tax will guarantee them to lose money, while 'creating jobs' they may get some back as long as the money keeps moving. Right now, money has no reason to move due to the very favorable tax climate for the very wealthy.

Encryptshun: A CEO making over $1,000,000 per year does not use her/his personal income to pay employees. The corporation does. Personal taxation corporate taxation.

Exactly, which means raising his taxes is not going to impact the "job creators".

"Job creators" are a bunch of farking cowards. What are you doing in business anyway if you're afraid to take risks?

Stop worrying citizens. This is all part of Obama's Hope and Change economy.
Remember, when things get bad, blame the GOP or even Faux Newz. And when things turn out well, you may praise your Nobel Prize winning, Bin Laden killin' President. Obama is your hero, citizen! Never forget that.

angry_scientist: sniiip Right now, money has no reason to move due to the very favorable tax climate for the very wealthy.

Gah, grammar and typing hurts while at work, but yeah.