In all, roughly 100,000 postal employees could be cut as a result of the various closures, resulting in savings of up to $6.5 billion a year.

You know what else would save them money? Eliminating the requirement that they pre-fund 75 years worth of future retiree health benefits.

At least there is no past history of Postal workers angered over their employment situation.

The United States is quickly turning into Ankh-Morpork (Pre-Vetinari)

ArcadianRefugee: You know what else would save them money? Eliminating the requirement that they pre-fund 75 years worth of future retiree health benefits.

So... instead we should let them pretend everything is fine, then crash and burn leaving taxpayers to pick up the tab? The best case scenario for the post office is an orderly wind-up and a transition to an e-mail/private service mail delivery regime. The worst case is pretending that it has a place in the modern world and acting shocked when it's collapsed. It's bad enough that we're allowing the Social Security ponzi scheme to continue unabated. At least we can do a BIT of good by planning ahead in this instance.

headline = win

why? cause it is true.

Forced Perspective: So... instead we should let them pretend everything is fine, then crash and burn leaving taxpayers to pick up the tab?

How in the hell do you get that from what I said?

For all the love farkers have for Bernie Sanders... he's basically trying to buy some votes with this, right? He may be independent, but delaying the closures is just silly.

I go to Maine for a week or two every summer (not a 1%er, but my father-in-law is) and it amazes me how many post offices they have. The Boothbay region has maybe 50,000 residents and as many tourists, but it seems like they have 20 post offices within a 5 mile radius. Every little town, island (some with fewer than 100 residents) etc. has a post office.

ArcadianRefugee: In all, roughly 100,000 postal employees could be cut as a result of the various closures, resulting in savings of up to $6.5 billion a year.

You know what else would save them money? Eliminating the requirement that they pre-fund 75 years worth of future retiree health benefits.

They'll still be billions of dollars short. I understand the argument, but it's not enough.

ArcadianRefugee: In all, roughly 100,000 postal employees could be cut as a result of the various closures, resulting in savings of up to $6.5 billion a year.

You know what else would save them money? Eliminating the requirement that they pre-fund 75 years worth of future retiree health benefits.

I have to say I had a pretty good experience yesterday. $10 each for two packages heading across the country, trackable, that will arrive in just a few days. They were picked up at work, and all I had to do was print labels from the USPS site. If USPS were forced to become a viable private business rather than propped up as a GSO I think it would do okay. Of course a lot of the financial side has to do with what Refugee says here.

ArcadianRefugee: In all, roughly 100,000 postal employees could be cut as a result of the various closures, resulting in savings of up to $6.5 billion a year.

You know what else would save them money? Eliminating the requirement that they pre-fund 75 years worth of future retiree health benefits.

Yeah, let's direct our hate to the Public Employees, as per usual. It's the same old story with this, isn't it? It's always the fault of the farking public employees, isn't it?

Come up with a better farking argument next time.

UPS Tracking - We'll get it to you by 2:00 pm tomorrow. If you're not home we'll try again tomorrow and the next day.

FedEx Tracking - We'll get it to you by 10:00 am tomorrow. If you're not home we'll try again tomorrow and the next day

USPS tracking - We'll get it to you sometime over the next couple of weeks. If you're not home we won't try again and you have to come to our office to pick it up, but we've likely lost it anyway so don't bother trying.

trotsky
ArcadianRefugee: In all, roughly 100,000 postal employees could be cut as a result of the various closures, resulting in savings of up to $6.5 billion a year.

You know what else would save them money? Eliminating the requirement that they pre-fund 75 years worth of future retiree health benefits.

Yeah, let's direct our hate to the Public Employees, as per usual. It's the same old story with this, isn't it? It's always the fault of the farking public employees, isn't it?

Come up with a better farking argument next time.

Pretty much all our national problems are the direct result of the people with the least power to change them, and who had the least power getting them placed there in the first place. Duh.

Yet another argument that the government cant run anything without it going down in flames.

Cant wait for government health care.

Forced Perspective: So... instead we should let them pretend everything is fine, then crash and burn leaving taxpayers to pick up the tab? The best case scenario for the post office is an orderly wind-up and a transition to an e-mail/private service mail delivery regime. The worst case is pretending that it has a place in the modern world and acting shocked when it's collapsed. It's bad enough that we're allowing the Social Security ponzi scheme to continue unabated. At least we can do a BIT of good by planning ahead in this instance.

Well, the USPS pre-fund isn't sitting pretty in a bank account somewhere. It's given back to the government where they put an IOU for the USPS and use the money for something else.

The whole scheme was to raid the USPS money since it was performing well enough that it could sustain itself. USPS is the only one where this requirement exists.

Nasty_McFilth: UPS Tracking - We'll get it to you by 2:00 pm tomorrow. If you're not home we'll try again tomorrow and the next day.

FedEx Tracking - We'll get it to you by 10:00 am tomorrow. If you're not home we'll try again tomorrow and the next day

USPS tracking - We'll get it to you sometime over the next couple of weeks. If you're not home we won't try again and you have to come to our office to pick it up, but we've likely lost it anyway so don't bother trying.

1. Tracking has nothing to do with it.
2. At least the USPS office is close to you. The FedEx and UPS centers are always in the ghettos or in the boonies.

trotsky: ArcadianRefugee: In all, roughly 100,000 postal employees could be cut as a result of the various closures, resulting in savings of up to $6.5 billion a year.

You know what else would save them money? Eliminating the requirement that they pre-fund 75 years worth of future retiree health benefits.

Yeah, let's direct our hate to the Public Employees, as per usual. It's the same old story with this, isn't it? It's always the fault of the farking public employees, isn't it?

Come up with a better farking argument next time.

Well, they could pre-fund a more reasonable amount, since it's hard to say what their staffing level will be in 75 years.
Or they could be allowed to raise their rates.
Or they could be allowed to stop delivery on their slowest day.

Congress has forbidden them from taking any of these measures that any private company would have undertaken years ago.

(Also if they were a private company, they would stop delivering to Alaska and parts of the midwest. FedEx and UPS hand off their Alaska deliveries to the Post Office.)

Nasty_McFilth: UPS Tracking - We'll get it to you by 2:00 pm tomorrow. If you're not home we'll try again tomorrow and the next day.

FedEx Tracking - We'll get it to you by 10:00 am tomorrow. If you're not home we'll try again tomorrow and the next day

USPS tracking - We'll get it to you sometime over the next couple of weeks. If you're not home we won't try again and you have to come to our office to pick it up, but we've likely lost it anyway so don't bother trying.

NYC -> LA - 5lb package

UPS Next Day Air = $85.27
FedEx Standard Overnight = $76.67
USPS Express Mail = $39.31

To everyone here who drones on about how the USPS should die quickly because the future is email, until Apple can email me an laptop and Amazon can email me a duvet cover and Zappos can email me some shoes I think it's best to reconsider the value of an organization like the USPS.

stevenvictx: Yet another argument that the government cant run anything without it going down in flames.

Cant wait for government health care.

Get some facts, moran. Link (new window)

It's not over until the fat lady sings. UPS could fark so many customers between now and May that USPS may double in volume as people realize that Brown is something you don't want on your shoe or anything else that travels.

ArcadianRefugee: You know what else would save them money? Eliminating the requirement that they pre-fund 75 years worth of future retiree health benefits.

I actually like the idea of a company actually funding its retirement obligations rather than raiding petty cash when it turns out their "spectacular investments" didn't earn the 18% they expected to fund pensions. :-P

Ups is notorious around here for saying they will deliver on one certain day, and after you sit at home waiting for them they decide at 5 o'clock, Nah, I'll do it tomorrow.

If I have to choose, I will choose fed ex over any of them.

Nasty_McFilth: UPS Tracking / FedEx Tracking / USPS tracking

USPS is generally a LOT cheaper for simple mail, but I agree with your point: With the infrastructure and coverage of the USPS, they could do a much better job. On the flip side, the USPS handles over thirty times more total volume than FedEx and UPS combined.

So back to the problem: Let's start by ending bulk rate discounts for any mail addressed to "resident" or "occupant." That will either increase revenue or decrease sorting/carrying expenses, so it's a win no matter what.
=Smidge=

stevenvictx: Yet another argument that the government cant run anything without it going down in flames.

Cant wait for government health care.

You mean we'd have a system that was really pretty solidly reliable, while charging less than the medical systems of Mexico, Turkey, or Ecuador (sending a domestic letter costs more than 44-45 US cents in all three)? And yet, if you wanted white-glove service, there was also a booming competitive marketplace for it?

Sign me the heck up.

mistrmind: I know, off topic, but my company is looking for a good Linux Systems Engineer.
We're located in Boston.

Job description at the link here: http://bull.hn/l/CCWA/
If interested just click on the apply button and upload your resume and cover letter.
Pass the link along if you know someone who'd be a good fit.

Again, I know, off topic, but we're desperate for a good engineer.

Thanks.

No, this is the perfect thread for it. There may be a Postmaster/Linux Systems Engineer who needs a job in the near future.

Forced Perspective: ArcadianRefugee: You know what else would save them money? Eliminating the requirement that they pre-fund 75 years worth of future retiree health benefits.

So... instead we should let them pretend everything is fine, then crash and burn leaving taxpayers to pick up the tab? The best case scenario for the post office is an orderly wind-up and a transition to an e-mail/private service mail delivery regime. The worst case is pretending that it has a place in the modern world and acting shocked when it's collapsed. It's bad enough that we're allowing the Social Security ponzi scheme to continue unabated. At least we can do a BIT of good by planning ahead in this instance.

Yeah lets wind up and privatize a government corporation that supports a trillion dollar industry, because a whole bunch of ignorant retarded jackasses think they know what is best.

Alternatively we could change the requirement that every buisness decision such as shutting down unnecessary plants, post offices, routes, etc... required a farking act of congress in which congress critters fight as bitterly over those closures as they did base closures. You say privatize it, I say that is unnecessary, if we can get congresses long nose out of the USPS buisness and hand out of the USPS pocket book, but hey what do I know I'm just one of those people that do buisness with the USPS every day, depend on their service for my lively hood, have experience and knowledge in this industry.

The USPS is fixable, but that requires the loss of jobs, of post offices, of plants and congress critters take the brunt of union anger, old fark anger, and general dissatisfaction with the reality that the USPS can't support their network as it is currently configured with the current mail volume.

i ship many tens of thousands of items a year both for my full-time job and my own side business. USPS is the damn best there is. period. least damages, best delivery times, lowest costs. UPS is 2nd ONLY because of being able to abuse the shiat out of their claims department. FEDEX is an awful blight to shippers everywhere that I hate.

I am not happy about USPS service changes. It will greatly affect my costs. But I will deal with it!

stevarooni: I actually like the idea of a company actually funding its retirement obligations rather than raiding petty cash when it turns out their "spectacular investments" didn't earn the 18% they expected to fund pensions. :-P

There is properly funding retirement, and then there is what Congress did to the USPS. Before this the post office ran in the black. This year alone, the USPS has to bear a $6B burden beyond their normal retirement contributions. I challenge anyone to find ANY similar funding burden put on any private or public organization anywhere on this flipping planet. Funding retirement accounts to 100% of need going out 75 years? Insanity. The very best will fund 25 years out at 30%!

schief2: Nasty_McFilth: UPS Tracking - We'll get it to you by 2:00 pm 8:00 pm tomorrow. If you're not home we'll try again tomorrow and the next day throw it somewhere randomly in the general vicinity of your house, making sure it's visible from the street and out in the rain

FedEx Tracking - We'll get it to you by 10:00 am at some random point in the day tomorrow. If you're not home, which you won't be, since we're less predictable than the cable guy, we'll try again tomorrow and the next day absolutely refuse to deliver it without an in-person signature, which means a mandatory trip to BFE only between the hours of 6 and 8 pm, after the trucks get back but before they close for the night

USPS tracking - We'll get it to you sometime over the next couple of weeks the next day. If you're not home we won't try again and you have to come to our office to pick it up, but we've likely lost it anyway so don't bother trying. you can sign the pink slip and get it a couple days later, or come by the office the next day and pick it up in person

Fixed for accuracy, and your disingenuous comparison of overnight v standard delivery. Around here it's USPS >> Fedex >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UPS, and I'm pissed the way the HURR DURR PRIVATIZE DERP DERP mentality in Washington is gutting what's been the best delivery service of the three.

I'm sorry but my experiences with USPS are more in line with what NastyMcfilth said. If I were to believe their tracking, things sit in offices for 3 days and then shoot over 14 states in 1 day. FedEx-lmao competent but always last on my mind. UPS-hit or miss.

As far as package loss USPS takes the cake! I always cross my fingers when a package comes thru the sweaty meth fingers of the Ypsilanti sorting branch. They seem to have a problem mailing gift cards, wedding gifts, simple ebay commerce, and anything else that rattles in the box. They have unofficially taken an Oberheim Matrix 100 synth unit, 5 different gift cards to different destinations, an iPod shuffle wedding gift, a Palm Treo, 2 Moto RAZRs, and have successfully broken both a Moog and Sequential Circuits during shipment to clients-nicely not honoring their insurance policy. The phone at our local PO rings and rings and no one picks up. One worker we have complained about several times likes to chat up the ladies to an uncomfortable point and make suggestive comments. In general our local offices all seem to have a carbon monoxide leak or that swamp gas from Virgin Suicides that makes everyone stupid assholes. Nah shut them all down and then actually drug test and don't pay danger combat pay to a returning vet just for delivering the mail... Also, like in England, have the mail there by a certain time everyday or at least keep the same route so shiate doesn't show up at 10AM one day and 4:45 the next day. Please tell me all that time we spent on Euler circuits weren't for waste!!! lol

/my butthole sore much lol?

Snarfangel: mistrmind: I know, off topic, but my company is looking for a good Linux Systems Engineer.
We're located in Boston.

Job description at the link here: http://bull.hn/l/CCWA/
If interested just click on the apply button and upload your resume and cover letter.
Pass the link along if you know someone who'd be a good fit.

Again, I know, off topic, but we're desperate for a good engineer.

Thanks.

No, this is the perfect thread for it. There may be a Postmaster/Linux Systems Engineer who needs a job in the near future.

Post offices need Linux too.

meat0918: Bronzed War God: For all the love farkers have for Bernie Sanders... he's basically trying to buy some votes with this, right? He may be independent, but delaying the closures is just silly.

I go to Maine for a week or two every summer (not a 1%er, but my father-in-law is) and it amazes me how many post offices they have. The Boothbay region has maybe 50,000 residents and as many tourists, but it seems like they have 20 post offices within a 5 mile radius. Every little town, island (some with fewer than 100 residents) etc. has a post office.

Rural bumfark is one thing, but they have on the chopping block the mail handling center in Springfield, Oregon that serves 300,000+ people in the Eugene, Springfield, and Lane County area, plus mail for a few other counties. What will have used to take 1-2 days to send a letter between Eugene and Springfield will take 3-6 now, as the mail will have to be driven up to Portland and back.

The area is projected to grow as well, not shrink.

3-6? Dream on buddy. I just went through that here in Ohio last year. Utility bills through the town that can't be looked up or paid online? Delivered 14 days late, TWO days before the shutoff date. All my mail came this late.

trotsky: Yeah, let's direct our hate to the Public Employees, as per usual. It's the same old story with this, isn't it? It's always the fault of the farking public employees, isn't it?

Come up with a better farking argument next time.

I guess I'll just quote myself:

ArcadianRefugee: How in the hell do you get that from what I said?

stevarooni: I actually like the idea of a company actually funding its retirement obligations rather than raiding petty cash when it turns out their "spectacular investments" didn't earn the 18% they expected to fund pensions. :-P

That's fine. But 75 years. That means it isn't just "funding its retirement obligations" but "funding what someone is guessing their retirement obligations might be based on what the imagine their future staffing might be". If you wanna force them to fund the retirements they are gonna owe the people that work for them now, sure, I guess, but this is essentially funding the retirements for people they haven't even farking hired yet.

They have already "overfunded [their] Civil Service Retirement Fund by over $50 billion dollars and also has overfunded the Federal Employee Retirement System by nearly $7 billion dollars." Moving these monies to the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefit Fund would go a long way to easing things. Which is what the National Association of Letter Carriers wants to see happen.

Nasty_McFilth: UPS Tracking - We'll get it to you by 2:00 pm tomorrow. If you're not home we'll try again tomorrow and the next day.

FedEx Tracking - We'll get it to you by 10:00 am tomorrow. If you're not home we'll try again tomorrow and the next day

USPS tracking - We'll get it to you sometime over the next couple of weeks. If you're not home we won't try again and you have to come to our office to pick it up, but we've likely lost it anyway so don't bother trying.

Assuming you're not using FedEx SmartPost, which means you might get it sometime before you die, maybe.

I wonder how many missing letters and packages they are going to find when they finally clean those places out...

schief2: Nasty_McFilth: UPS Tracking - We'll get it to you by 2:00 pm 8:00 pm tomorrow. If you're not home we'll try again tomorrow and the next day throw it somewhere randomly in the general vicinity of your house, making sure it's visible from the street and out in the rain

FedEx Tracking - We'll get it to you by 10:00 am at some random point in the day tomorrow. If you're not home, which you won't be, since we're less predictable than the cable guy, we'll try again tomorrow and the next day absolutely refuse to deliver it without an in-person signature, which means a mandatory trip to BFE only between the hours of 6 and 8 pm, after the trucks get back but before they close for the night

USPS tracking - We'll get it to you sometime over the next couple of weeks the next day. If you're not home we won't try again and you have to come to our office to pick it up, but we've likely lost it anyway so don't bother trying. you can sign the pink slip and get it a couple days later, or come by the office the next day and pick it up in person

Fixed for accuracy, and your disingenuous comparison of overnight v standard delivery. Around here it's USPS >> Fedex >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UPS, and I'm pissed the way the HURR DURR PRIVATIZE DERP DERP mentality in Washington is gutting what's been the best delivery service of the three.

UPS workers can vary wildly. I had one in Pittsburgh that was a freaking Ninja. I once thought that my all in one canon laster printer (MF4690, love the thing) was stolen as it was reported delivered and wasn't on my front porch (I lived on the border of Point Breeze/Homewood, so this wouldn't be unexpected). Eventually I found it on my back porch. No idea how it got there as the back gate was locked and I had a huge dog back there as well (an Akita). I'd say he threw it, but the box wasn't damaged. He must have climbed the fence, pet the dog (she was all bark, no bite) and placed it back there. He also placed several other packages (after that one) back there as well.

jafiwam: I wonder how many missing letters and packages they are going to find when they finally clean those places out...

Don't be ridiculous. Mail is dumped in the woods. They don't keep them on site.

cftc: stevenvictx: Yet another argument that the government cant run anything without it going down in flames.

Cant wait for government health care.

Get some facts, moran. Link (new window)

Sure, they say that, but who will bail them out over and over again?

The guys that put them in the red in the first place?stevenvictx: cftc: stevenvictx: Yet another argument that the government cant run anything without it going down in flames.

Cant wait for government health care.

Get some facts, moran. Link (new window)

Sure, they say that, but who will bail them out over and over again?

The guys who put them in the red in the first place? (new window)

I USED TO THINK "FEDEX" MEANT USPS CAUSE OF THE "FED" PART. MEANING FEDERAL.
MEANING UNITED STATES

BitwiseShift: Brown is something you don't want on your shoe or anything else that travels

QFT.

USPS has only lost one mailpiece of mine. Though I was sending it *to* the USPS. Not sure how they managed that.

The last think I ordered from Thinkgeek confused me. They shipped it UPS. I got an email a couple of days later from UPS that the package was delivered, to an office, with whose address I was unfamiliar.

Turned out it was the post office that serves my house. The USPS delivered the package the next day.

USPS must be doing something right if it makes financial sense for UPS to subcontract out deliveries to them. (I live in a city (albeit a sprawling one), I wouldn't think logistical troubles would prevent Brown from delivering to residences).

Jon iz teh kewl: I USED TO THINK "FEDEX" MEANT USPS CAUSE OF THE "FED" PART. MEANING FEDERAL.
MEANING UNITED STATES

Of course you did. Why don't you go over there and play with the blocks.

My only negative experience with the USPS (besides extremely slow office employees) was: when I was growing up my aunt used to send me birthday cards with a 10 dollar bill inside the card. It came every year from the time I was 5 years old on. When I moved to Washington, DC for college the card for my 18th birthday had been opened and, of course, no 10 dollar bill. I called my aunt and told her about it, then told her not to send any more cash in the mail, because who trusts government employees?

Incensed, she called her post office, filed a complaint, and the USPS said they would look into it. NINE MONTHS LATER they let her know that an employee had been fired and arrested for stealing money from the mail, and she likely took the 10 dollars, although they didn't offer to refund the money. So I guess they eventually get around to nailing bad employees. It's certainly better than what you get from the TSA when items go missing.

Just raise the rates for first class postage to $.99.

That works out to a penny per day for delivery.