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(LA Times) Asinine With $666,000 in federal research money, scientists examined whether distant prayer could heal AIDS. It could not   (latimes.com) divider line 194
More: Asinine, aides, Wayne State University, acupuncture, strategic plan, prayers, natural products, National Institutes of Health, scientists examined  
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8478 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Dec 2011 at 11:43 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



194 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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Aarontology [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 07:56:52 PM
Of course it didn't work.

You can't cure a disease if the grant money took the Number of the Beast!
 
djkutch [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 08:07:16 PM
Aarontology: Of course it didn't work.

You can't cure a disease if the grant money took the Number of the Beast!

It may not be scientific, but it's obvious.
 
lysdexic [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 08:07:38 PM
Marysue: In twelve years they've spent $1.4 billion dollars on researching alternative medical treatments. In the US, the country where they spent the money. Creating jobs. That pay taxes. And haven't managed to kill a single goddamned person.

You're right, subby, the asinine tag was so appropriate. We could have gotten what? An extra ten days of war in Iraq for that kind of money?

Translation: I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Steve Jobs and Corrtta King jump to mind as people hurt by "prayer therapy" and similar voodoo.

/DNRTFA, just needed to address this crock
//I shall now do so
 
AdolfOliverPanties [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 08:10:55 PM
One must also consider counter-prayers. These are people who are so nefariously evil that they find out about prayer circles and vigils, and band together to pray for the opposite.

I'm sure that must be what happened here.
 
stpauler [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 08:11:24 PM
 
quickdraw [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 08:11:56 PM
Did they do a double blind with placebo prayers? Otherwise it's not a real study.
 
Ed Finnerty [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 08:13:35 PM
Maybe the lack of prayer effectiveness is just a test of our faith. Like dinosaur bones.
 
lysdexic [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 08:19:50 PM
I find this spending on faith disturbing.
 
Mugato [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 08:26:36 PM
Sounds like something they'd leak to convince the public to want to keep science out of politics.
 
DarwiOdrade [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 08:28:06 PM
quickdraw: Did they do a double blind with placebo prayers? Otherwise it's not a real study.
 
coco ebert [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 08:42:05 PM
Mugato: Sounds like something they'd leak to convince the public to want to keep science out of politics.

Or to keep public money out of science.
 
GAT_00 [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 08:42:36 PM
But do I have a button on my desk that I can hit and 38 people pray for me?
 
Britney Spear's Speculum
2011-12-12 08:50:48 PM
I'm down with this. Scientifically debunk them then outlaw them from being used in practice/being covered by health insurance.
 
Eddie Adams from Torrance [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 08:51:45 PM
That's just a farking stupid study.

Everyone knows you have to pray AND donate money to the church... otherwise God can't hear you.
 
The Onion is prophetic [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 09:02:41 PM
I'm sure this is somehow all Obama's fault.
 
coco ebert [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 09:03:49 PM
I think research into the placebo effect is useful and interesting. Not much money for Big Pharma in that, though.
 
sweetmelissa31 [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 09:15:29 PM
Marysue: In twelve years they've spent $1.4 billion dollars on researching alternative medical treatments. In the US, the country where they spent the money. Creating jobs. That pay taxes. And haven't managed to kill a single goddamned person.

You're right, subby, the asinine tag was so appropriate. We could have gotten what? An extra ten days of war in Iraq for that kind of money?

While I agree with your last statement that the money is nothing compared to what we spend on war, we could also have spent the money on legitimate scientific research and medical treatment. For example, DNA sequencing and analysis is expensive, but could lead to new advances in cancer and HIV treatment, as well as providing information about what sort of treatments will be most effective for subjects currently infected by those diseases. In fact, DNA sequencing is already used effectively for this purpose.
 
dletter [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 09:17:25 PM
Honestly, if "studying" remote prayer could convince people who believe in it that it is B.S., it would be worth 10x what they spent on it.

But, we all know it won't. Believing in remote prayer to "cure" anything isn't based on having a sane mind in the first place.
 
violentsalvation [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 09:17:51 PM
$666,000 is a beastly amount of money to be spending on prayer.
 
dahmers love zombie [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 09:23:15 PM
Right. We have to defund NPR, but farking woo science gets funded? Grrr.
 
vernonFL [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 09:26:54 PM
With $1500, I examined whether a trio of naked college football jocks massaging my prostate could make my toes curl. It could.
 
dletter [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 09:35:47 PM
vernonFL: With $1500, I examined whether a trio of naked college football jocks massaging my prostate could make my toes curl. It could.

Is that the going rate for a class at Penn State now adays?
 
namatad [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 09:44:07 PM
AdolfOliverPanties: One must also consider counter-prayers. These are people who are so nefariously evil that they find out about prayer circles and vigils, and band together to pray for the opposite.

I'm sure that must be what happened here.

you sir, are my fark hero of all time


My first knee-jerk reaction was to go on and on about how we KNEW it wouldnt work, so it was a waste of money.
but

the scientist in me kicked in and realized, that after spending the money and doing the study, we know for a fact that prayer doesnt heal.
period
not within the scientific method
so NOW, we can REJECT and IGNORE anyone who claims otherwise
period

so this is actually money well spent.
strange but true

/because if prayer could have worked, W would have exploded sometime during his stay in office
 
Dead for Tax Reasons [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 09:47:49 PM
Maybe the distance the prayer was made from was too short. Let's get a grant to shoot people into space to pray. We're gonna need a lot of people to make sure the signal is strong enough. And to make sure we find the right distance, we should put them on the same trajectory as voyager 1
 
vudukungfu
2011-12-12 09:49:55 PM

CONDOMS, ASSHOLES.

CONDOMS
 
SurfaceTension [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 10:06:00 PM
Dead for Tax Reasons: Maybe the distance the prayer was made from was too short. Let's get a grant to shoot people into space to pray. We're gonna need a lot of people to make sure the signal is strong enough. And to make sure we find the right distance, we should put them on the same trajectory as voyager 1

I think we should include on that space ship everyone who thinks prayer can cure AIDS, or any other illness.
 
rebelyell2006
2011-12-12 11:46:22 PM
Wow. People biatch about the government funding museum exhibits about dinosaurs and art and other exhibits (and the huge uproar over the Enola Gay, but the NIH can spend money on religious "healing" and where is the teabagger outrage?
 
Mega Steve
2011-12-12 11:47:38 PM
God doesn't have time for this kind of crap. He saves his miracles for sporting events and furthering the careers of celebrities.
 
rebelyell2006
2011-12-12 11:47:40 PM
rebelyell2006: Wow. People biatch about the government funding museum exhibits about dinosaurs and art and other exhibits (and the huge uproar over the Enola Gay, but the NIH can spend money on religious "healing" and where is the teabagger outrage?

Of course I forgot the extra ")" after Enola Gay. It's 5:00 somewhere.
 
cowgirl toffee [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 11:48:42 PM
I need another $666,000 to see what that did not work.
 
Old enough to know better
2011-12-12 11:48:45 PM
Some call it 'faith healing'. I like to think of it as Darwinism in action.
 
Potatoe
2011-12-12 11:49:52 PM
JOSH
I just had an interesting moment. I just recommended to the President that
he buy a
yea vote for a $115,000 and the Bill of Rights.

DONNA
Don't you mean a $115 million?

JOSH
Jimmy Hoebuck wanted to fund a study on remote prayer for $115,000.

DONNA
Is it me or is this getting harder?

JOsh
iat's getting harder. I'd say we're going to make more enemies in the second
term,
but I don't know if there's anybody left on the list.

DONNA
You took funding for remote prayer to the President?

They chuckle.

JOSH
I did it with gusto.
someone needed to buy a vote on a critical something.... or something
 
The Face Of Oblivion
2011-12-12 11:50:59 PM
National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine

B...b....but cutting government waste infringes my rights!
 
BronyMedic [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 11:53:44 PM
Really? This is on that sham of science known as NICAM, isn't it? *reads article* Yep.

I seem to remember a study done several years ago, and published in Circulation, where they studied the effects of intercessory prayer on victims of acute myocardial infarction (Heart Attacks).

As I recall, the group that recieved prayer actually did worse.

And No, Marysue, that's not true. The NIH NICAM study of the Gonzales alternative medicine protocol for Pancreatic cancer had to be dropped because they were killing their patients like flies in a bug zapper.
 
fusillade762
2011-12-12 11:53:49 PM
Aarontology: Of course it didn't work.

You can't cure a disease if the grant money took the Number of the Beast!

Well, maybe if you pray to Satan.
 
beerbaron
2011-12-12 11:53:58 PM
Remember, kids, all the easy cuts have been made. Your taxes need to be raised.
 
rebelyell2006
2011-12-12 11:54:22 PM
The Face Of Oblivion: National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine

B...b....but cutting government waste infringes my rights!

My future career will involve sucking government cock in order to get the elusive grants for non-profit museum funding, and I think that cutting funding for blatantly superstitious "prayer healing" is just great. More money for non-governmental educational institutions.
 
Coffee Snob
2011-12-12 11:54:27 PM
vudukungfu: CONDOMS, ASSHOLES.
CONDOMS

In all fairness, even with a condom, assholes are a big part of the problem.
 
rebelyell2006
2011-12-12 11:55:29 PM
Coffee Snob: vudukungfu: CONDOMS, ASSHOLES.
CONDOMS

In all fairness, even with a condom, assholes are a big part of the problem.

Not really. Condoms and soap tend to remove the ass smell from certain appendages.
 
MrEricSir
2011-12-12 11:55:51 PM
Not making this up -- I was drinking water when I read the headline and spit some of it out.

Not because it's a surprise, but because it's about as strange as this.
 
Glockenspiel Hero
2011-12-12 11:56:18 PM
quickdraw: Did they do a double blind with placebo prayers? Otherwise it's not a real study.

Actually, they did do a double blind study a while ago, looking at the efficacy of prayer. It was funded by the Templeton Foundation and well designed: a good sized sample group and attempts to control for most variables.

Patients with roughly similar situations (coronary bypass) were divided into three groups

1) Patients had people assigned to pray for them, and they were they might be prayed for
3) Patients had nobody assigned to pray for them, and they were told they might be prayed for
2) Patients had people assigned to pray for them, and they were told that they would certainly have someone praying for them.

Results? As you might guess, #1 and #2 were statistically identical. Prayer does nothing

But group #3? They showed an actual effect.

They did worse (new window)

This is why you don't hear much about this study- it's so embarrassing to the pro-religion side that they never mention it. The general assumption is that people in group #3 assumed that they were so bad off they had to have people assigned to pray for them, and that psychosomatic effect resulted in more stress and overall worse outcomes.
 
Territorial Enterprise
2011-12-12 11:56:46 PM
Having spent some time at the NIH, this in no way surprises me. You would be amazed at what some of the better funded labs spend their money on! Got 60,000 left to spend on a grant and less than a day to spend it? $3200 Mac Pro "work computers" for everybody!
 
PsiChick [TotalFark]
2011-12-12 11:57:52 PM
"How can we justify wasting money on something like this when there are so many other things that are much more plausible and much more likely to result in real benefit?"

I don't know, genius...maybe for the same reason you study the medicinal practices of tribes that haven't even heard of TV, let alone modern medicine? Because after all those hours and hours and billions spent debunking, you might accidentally find a real farking cure?

This is science. You go work on nonsensical shiat for years and waste a farkload of time, and out of it comes a cure for cancer. If you can't handle it, get another job.
 
cowgirl toffee [TotalFark]
2011-12-13 12:00:02 AM
rebelyell2006: Coffee Snob: vudukungfu: CONDOMS, ASSHOLES.
CONDOMS

In all fairness, even with a condom, assholes are a big part of the problem.

Not really. Condoms and soap tend to remove the ass smell from certain appendages.

Yes, and with all of the lotion that's on 5 condoms, the skin on your hand becomes silky smooth too. :P
 
rebelyell2006
2011-12-13 12:01:16 AM
PsiChick: "How can we justify wasting money on something like this when there are so many other things that are much more plausible and much more likely to result in real benefit?"

I don't know, genius...maybe for the same reason you study the medicinal practices of tribes that haven't even heard of TV, let alone modern medicine? Because after all those hours and hours and billions spent debunking, you might accidentally find a real farking cure?

This is science. You go work on nonsensical shiat for years and waste a farkload of time, and out of it comes a cure for cancer. If you can't handle it, get another job.

There's a world of a difference between testing how different chemicals could affect AIDS, and how positive or negative waves could affect AIDS. One is science, the other is not because the mind has no control over stuff like AIDS.
 
Territorial Enterprise
2011-12-13 12:03:13 AM
PsiChick: "How can we justify wasting money on something like this when there are so many other things that are much more plausible and much more likely to result in real benefit?"

I don't know, genius...maybe for the same reason you study the medicinal practices of tribes that haven't even heard of TV, let alone modern medicine? Because after all those hours and hours and billions spent debunking, you might accidentally find a real farking cure?

This is science. You go work on nonsensical shiat for years and waste a farkload of time, and out of it comes a cure for cancer. If you can't handle it, get another job.

Wait, I just read your profile. Do you claim to be psychic?
 
Pollexabator
2011-12-13 12:04:00 AM
PsiChick: This is science. You go work on nonsensical shiat for years and waste a farkload of time, and out of it comes a cure for cancer. If you can't handle it, get another job.

notsureifserious.jpg
 
MrEricSir
2011-12-13 12:04:51 AM
rebelyell2006: ...the mind has no control over stuff like AIDS.

Actually, that sounds like it's worth studying. Are placebos effective against AIDS? Drugs for deadly diseases often aren't tested against placebos.
 
rebelyell2006
2011-12-13 12:05:56 AM
MrEricSir: rebelyell2006: ...the mind has no control over stuff like AIDS.

Actually, that sounds like it's worth studying. Are placebos effective against AIDS? Drugs for deadly diseases often aren't tested against placebos.

We already know placebos and homeopathy have no physical effect against anything. What's the point?
 
PsiChick [TotalFark]
2011-12-13 12:07:43 AM
rebelyell2006: PsiChick: "How can we justify wasting money on something like this when there are so many other things that are much more plausible and much more likely to result in real benefit?"

I don't know, genius...maybe for the same reason you study the medicinal practices of tribes that haven't even heard of TV, let alone modern medicine? Because after all those hours and hours and billions spent debunking, you might accidentally find a real farking cure?

This is science. You go work on nonsensical shiat for years and waste a farkload of time, and out of it comes a cure for cancer. If you can't handle it, get another job.

There's a world of a difference between testing how different chemicals could affect AIDS, and how positive or negative waves could affect AIDS. One is science, the other is not because the mind has no control over stuff like AIDS.

And how do you know? Have you ever gone and actually tested it? Psychology, after all, can affect a person's immune system, so what specific types of placebo effects could actually make a difference in a human immune system, if not with AIDS, then with another disease like the common cold?

Until you test, you don't know. Since apparently learning about the universe and\or doing your job holds no appeal to you, try and remember that this is a secondary benefit: Now your soapbox actually has some data to stand on.

Territorial Enterprise: PsiChick:

Wait, I just read your profile. Do you claim to be psychic?

Why the fark do you care?
 
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