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(Miami Herald)   Christian evangelist climate change scientist doesn't believe in global warming... because "belief" is faith in things not supported by facts   (miamiherald.com) divider line 410
    More: Spiffy, petroleum engineers, creeds, climate change, Lubbock, scientific consensus, beliefs  
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11110 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Dec 2011 at 1:40 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-12-12 12:06:49 PM  
Did Submitter read the same article I did, or is he just stringing words together in an attempt to communicate to other humans in a way that doesn't involve flinging his own poop?
 
2011-12-12 12:09:21 PM  
Believing it's a hoax is the most retarded thing in the long history of retarded things conservatives believe.

/and subby didn't RTFA
//and can't sentence form good
 
2011-12-12 12:12:16 PM  
You guys need to RTFA *and* both halves of the headline.

/stubmitter
 
2011-12-12 12:13:20 PM  
Not Subby, but FTFA: "People ask me if I believe in global warming. I tell them, 'No, I don't,' because belief is faith; faith is the evidence of things not seen," Hayhoe said. "Science is evidence of things seen. To have an open mind, we have to use the brains that God gave us to look at the science," she said.
 
2011-12-12 12:16:10 PM  

Beaver1224: Not Subby, but FTFA: "People ask me if I believe in global warming. I tell them, 'No, I don't,' because belief is faith; faith is the evidence of things not seen," Hayhoe said. "Science is evidence of things seen. To have an open mind, we have to use the brains that God gave us to look at the science," she said.


What the shiat is that trying to say?
 
2011-12-12 12:16:54 PM  
it's amazing that this woman has somehow managed to believe at the same time both an indisputable truth backed by years and years of research and global warming.
 
2011-12-12 12:18:51 PM  
"Christian evangelist climate change scientist"

- evangelist climate change scientist Christian
- climate change scientist evangelist Christian
- Christian climate change evangelist scientist
- scientist Christian evangelist climate change

No matter how you arrange the words it still makes no sense
 
2011-12-12 12:21:05 PM  

GAT_00: What the shiat is that trying to say?


"The more I know, the less I believe."
 
2011-12-12 12:24:30 PM  

GAT_00: What the shiat is that trying to say?


I think she's saying that she doesn't "believe" in climate change, because no "belief" is necessary. It's a fact that's backed up by an overwhelming amount of scientific evidence.
 
2011-12-12 12:29:44 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: GAT_00: What the shiat is that trying to say?

I think she's saying that she doesn't "believe" in climate change, because no "belief" is necessary. It's a fact that's backed up by an overwhelming amount of scientific evidence.


Agreed, it's like people who ask me if I "believe" in evolution. It's not a question of belief.

Alas most people won't really understand the nuance involved here methinks.
 
2011-12-12 12:39:27 PM  

Andromeda: Eddie Adams from Torrance: GAT_00: What the shiat is that trying to say?

I think she's saying that she doesn't "believe" in climate change, because no "belief" is necessary. It's a fact that's backed up by an overwhelming amount of scientific evidence.

Agreed, it's like people who ask me if I "believe" in evolution. It's not a question of belief.

Alas most people won't really understand the nuance involved here methinks.


I missed it, but I don't think I've seen that answer before. It just sounded badly contradictory.
 
2011-12-12 12:43:00 PM  
"Aren't you scientists just in this for the money?" one older man asked

If we were in it for the money, we wouldn't be scientists, gramps.
 
2011-12-12 12:48:27 PM  

sweetmelissa31: "Aren't you scientists just in this for the money?" one older man asked

If we were in it for the money, we wouldn't be scientists, gramps.


I'm going to say that to the trashman. Because, technically, it's true.
 
2011-12-12 12:48:35 PM  

GAT_00: Beaver1224: Not Subby, but FTFA: "People ask me if I believe in global warming. I tell them, 'No, I don't,' because belief is faith; faith is the evidence of things not seen," Hayhoe said. "Science is evidence of things seen. To have an open mind, we have to use the brains that God gave us to look at the science," she said.

What the shiat is that trying to say?


It's the doublespeak that one needs to do to effectively speak to conservatives.
 
2011-12-12 12:49:41 PM  
I do like the fact that some within the Evangelical Christian movement are taking real notice of environmental issues because they realized that part and parcel with the idea that man should have dominion over the land is the idea that man should engage in proper stewardship of that land.
 
2011-12-12 01:01:54 PM  

sweetmelissa31: "Aren't you scientists just in this for the money?" one older man asked

If we were in it for the money, we wouldn't be scientists, gramps.


YOU GOTDAMN SCIENTISTS ARE JUST GETTING RICH BY SUCKING OFF GOVERNMENT GRANT MONEY TEET WHARRGARBL

I always love that one. I wanted to be a geologist when I was a kid, and my mom told me "Geologists don't get paid very well." So I went into IT instead.
 
2011-12-12 01:34:52 PM  

make me some tea: YOU GOTDAMN SCIENTISTS ARE JUST GETTING RICH BY SUCKING OFF GOVERNMENT GRANT MONEY TEET WHARRGARBL

I always love that one. I wanted to be a geologist when I was a kid, and my mom told me "Geologists don't get paid very well." So I went into IT instead.


My impression is that deniers think research grants arrive as big novelty checks from the Publisher's Clearinghouse Prize Van, that scientists just put right in their savings accounts.

Back in most university scientists' reality: "Hey, look. I can now pay my graduate students' exorbitant research assistant stipends, often in excess of $20,000/yr these days. Also, I can replace that measurement apparatus with something that doesn't use a pen-plotter, and buy some computers (*) that run on something more recent than Win98. All I have to do is submit this spiral-bound stack of paper to the person who actually controls the money, and within 4-6 weeks the purchase order will be ready for my review."

You can tell that most deniers' last experience with science was a required 9th-grade class.

(*): The grant monitor reminded me to point that that this is a ridiculous example. Computers are general purpose, and not specific to the goals of this grant. It would be unfair to expect the grant to pay for the whole computer. Have you considered just leasing one for the duration of the grant?
 
2011-12-12 01:37:32 PM  

chimp_ninja: My impression is that deniers think research grants arrive as big novelty checks from the Publisher's Clearinghouse Prize Van, that scientists just put right in their savings accounts.

Back in most university scientists' reality: "Hey, look. I can now pay my graduate students' exorbitant research assistant stipends, often in excess of $20,000/yr these days. Also, I can replace that measurement apparatus with something that doesn't use a pen-plotter, and buy some computers (*) that run on something more recent than Win98. All I have to do is submit this spiral-bound stack of paper to the person who actually controls the money, and within 4-6 weeks the purchase order will be ready for my review."

You can tell that most deniers' last experience with science was a required 9th-grade class.

(*): The grant monitor reminded me to point that that this is a ridiculous example. Computers are general purpose, and not specific to the goals of this grant. It would be unfair to expect the grant to pay for the whole computer. Have you considered just leasing one for the duration of the grant?


Jeez.
 
2011-12-12 01:38:14 PM  

chimp_ninja: (*): The grant monitor reminded me to point that that this is a ridiculous example. Computers are general purpose, and not specific to the goals of this grant. It would be unfair to expect the grant to pay for the whole computer. Have you considered just leasing one for the duration of the grant?


Just get a dumb terminal and rent computer time on a mainframe.

/Just like the 70s.
 
2011-12-12 01:43:09 PM  
Yeah, I'm totes gonna believe anything a Christian scientist has to say.
 
2011-12-12 01:43:18 PM  

Joelogon: You guys need to RTFA *and* both halves of the headline.

/stubmitter


I got it. Well done.
 
2011-12-12 01:43:24 PM  
I heard volcanoes drive more SUV's than people so man made climate change is a socialist hoax.
 
2011-12-12 01:43:37 PM  
Because Global Warming doesn't exist, Global Climate Change does, however.
 
2011-12-12 01:45:03 PM  

CPennypacker: I heard volcanoes drive more SUV's than people so man made climate change is a socialist hoax.


Also, Al Gore is fat, which proves it's a hoax, now and forever. NOW AND FOREVER.
 
2011-12-12 01:45:04 PM  

RexTalionis: I do like the fact that some within the Evangelical Christian movement are taking real notice of environmental issues because they realized that part and parcel with the idea that man should have dominion over the land is the idea that man should engage in proper stewardship of that land.


God really should just make us a new planet when we are done farking up this one... It's like 6 days worth of work for him. Lazy bastard!
 
2011-12-12 01:46:11 PM  
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Yeah, I'm totes gonna believe anything a Christian scientist has to say.

You better. Otherwise, lake of fire. It's in the bible, I think.
 
2011-12-12 01:46:20 PM  
I believe in the phone company, because I'm pretty sure it exists and if not I feel pretty stupid for sending money every month.
 
2011-12-12 01:47:40 PM  

kbronsito: God really should just make us a new planet when we are done farking up this one... It's like 6 days worth of work for him. Lazy bastard!



Next time, no religions though...
 
2011-12-12 01:48:50 PM  
She doesn't believe in it, because belief is an act of faith. Instead, she knows climate change is both real and caused in large part by man.
 
2011-12-12 01:53:51 PM  

chimp_ninja: The grant monitor reminded me to point that that this is a ridiculous example.


And really, if you already have monitors you just need the CPUs.
 
2011-12-12 01:53:51 PM  

DarwiOdrade: She doesn't believe in it, because belief is an act of faith. Instead, she knows climate change is both real and caused in large part by man.


I guess that's a workable way to define "belief," even if I might quibble with it. I just hope that when she's discussing religion she doesn't refer to faith as a "way of knowing" like some people do, or her point gets shot all to hell...
 
2011-12-12 01:55:48 PM  
"Hayho-o-o-oe!"

www.cbsnews.com
 
2011-12-12 01:56:23 PM  
FTFA: "Brought in to Tech's geoscience department, Hayhoe now teaches in the political science department, because, she said, "climate change is a very political science in West Texas."

Really? Do they put the evolutionary biologists in the theology department? The pre-meds in the art department? Bob Knight in the women's studies department?

A Texas Tech degree just lost some value to me. If I ever see a diploma or resume with that on it, I'll have to think about what it means.
 
2011-12-12 01:56:50 PM  
At a recent talk at Wayland Baptist, no one was rude, and Rick Ross, a 21-year-old math major, told Hayhoe she had inspired him to "go out and do something." Hayhoe was surprised. "What was that all about?" she said to Grover, her host, as they gathered her things after her last talk of the day. "Nobody challenged me? Maybe those people didn't come."

What does she mean "those people"?
 
2011-12-12 01:58:31 PM  

pwhp_67: kbronsito: God really should just make us a new planet when we are done farking up this one... It's like 6 days worth of work for him. Lazy bastard!


Next time, no religions though...


... or maybe if he showed up in a column of fire or some other awesome form for a day out of the year to answer important question for say 20 mins. That's all it would take. He shows up... our duly appointed representative use the time to ask questions submitted and voted on by the people : 1. Gays... a) good, b) bad, c)you don't care? 2. Abortions yay or nay? 3. Is it true gingers have no soul?

That's all it would take... 20 mins. once a year. We'll record the Q&A in case have to go back to it. Lazy bum leaves a bunch of scriptures thousands of years ago that are full of contradictions and ambiguity that could have been easily corrected through careful editing and we are supposed to structure our societies on that sloppy work?
 
2011-12-12 01:59:34 PM  

BronyMedic: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Yeah, I'm totes gonna believe anything a Christian scientist has to say.

You better. Otherwise, lake of fire. It's in the bible, I think.


Cleveland is in the bible?
 
2011-12-12 02:02:19 PM  

make me some tea: chimp_ninja: My impression is that deniers think research grants arrive as big novelty checks from the Publisher's Clearinghouse Prize Van, that scientists just put right in their savings accounts.

Back in most university scientists' reality: "Hey, look. I can now pay my graduate students' exorbitant research assistant stipends, often in excess of $20,000/yr these days. Also, I can replace that measurement apparatus with something that doesn't use a pen-plotter, and buy some computers (*) that run on something more recent than Win98. All I have to do is submit this spiral-bound stack of paper to the person who actually controls the money, and within 4-6 weeks the purchase order will be ready for my review."

You can tell that most deniers' last experience with science was a required 9th-grade class.

(*): The grant monitor reminded me to point that that this is a ridiculous example. Computers are general purpose, and not specific to the goals of this grant. It would be unfair to expect the grant to pay for the whole computer. Have you considered just leasing one for the duration of the grant?

Jeez.


Mmm ... indirect costs.
 
2011-12-12 02:02:20 PM  

GAT_00: Beaver1224: Not Subby, but FTFA: "People ask me if I believe in global warming. I tell them, 'No, I don't,' because belief is faith; faith is the evidence of things not seen," Hayhoe said. "Science is evidence of things seen. To have an open mind, we have to use the brains that God gave us to look at the science," she said.

What the shiat is that trying to say?


Maybe she's trying to point out something about the nature of belief. "Believing in" Jesus and "believing in" anthropogenic climate change are two very different things because one is accepting on faith something for which there is little or no evidence, whereas the other is conceding the scientific evidence for something which has been rigiorously studied and observed.

DarwiOdrade: She doesn't believe in it, because belief is an act of faith. Instead, she knows climate change is both real and caused in large part by man.


What DarwiOdrade said, basically.

It's a language problem, much like the problem with "theory" that gets exploited when people say, "Evolution in just a theory." They're conflating two entirely different uses of the word "theory": the scientific meaning and the common usage (that it's just another word for "guess", the meaning implicit in the expression "it's just a theory").

Speaking of people using the same word to mean different things, FTA:

Most climatologists refuse to answer skeptics, preferring to let the research speak for itself.

"Skepticism" is not a synonym for "denial" and should be not used as such, nor should "skeptic" be used as a more polite way to say "denier."

Holocaust denial is not skepticism.
Creationism is not skepticism.
Denial of anthropogenic climate change is not skepticism.
 
2011-12-12 02:02:40 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: I just hope that when she's discussing religion she doesn't refer to faith as a "way of knowing" like some people do, or her point gets shot all to hell...


She does say "faith is the evidence of things not seen", when really religious faith is only evidence of some people's gullibility, willful ignorance, or an unwillingness to apply critical thinking to religion.
 
2011-12-12 02:03:38 PM  
So what is it called when you have faith in a consensus, not facts? Group think? Money grubbing? Ponzi scheme supporting?
 
2011-12-12 02:04:30 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: "Hayho-o-o-oe!"

[www.cbsnews.com image 480x360]


Now why did you call his mother a garden tool?
 
2011-12-12 02:05:52 PM  

Joe Blowme: So what is it called when you have faith in a consensus, not facts? Group think? Money grubbing? Ponzi scheme supporting?


Religion. What you said.
 
2011-12-12 02:06:44 PM  
In case anyone actually cares why the argument is largely being lost by those who want to do something about global warming, the problem is simple:

1) Al Gore is perhaps the worst possible choice for a figurehead one could take. He's a polarizing figure, hated by those on the right who view him as someone who tried to steal the 2000 election and as a hypocrit living in a 30,000 square foot house, flying first class around the world while making hundreds of millions of dollars on selling carbon offsets.

2) The ad hominem attacks of people who are skeptical or unconvinced serve to undermine the argument of those doing the name calling. You're never going to convince someone he's wrong by calling him stupid; you're just going to convince him that your point is so weak that you have nothing productive to say.

3) The acquisition of socialist groups of the issue to promote their own goals hurts the credibility of those trying to fix the problem.

4) The ridiculous, out-of-wack, sky-is-falling idiots who make preposterous claims because they think that will scare everyone into making a change when, instead, the preposterous claims never come to fruition and people look back and say -- they were wrong when they said the world would be under water by 2010, they must be wrong about everything else.
 
2011-12-12 02:07:25 PM  
Her book for evangelicals, "A Climate for Change," sells tepidly because Christian bookstores won't stock it. At a senior citizens' center in Lubbock, a man shaking with rage shouted an expletive-studded monologue about how the greenhouse effect doesn't exist. At a talk for Tech business school students, her arguments were simply dismissed. At the end of any given talk, perhaps one person might tell Hayhoe she's convinced him of the scientific consensus on global warming.

I will never understand the anti-intellectualism that is rampant among Evangelicals... I know many Catholics and Jews that easily find common ground between their religious beliefs and scientific facts, and I'm sure plenty of other Christians have no problems, but what is it about Evangelicals that causes them to act like children in the face of scientific facts?
 
2011-12-12 02:08:01 PM  

Joe Blowme: So what is it called when you have faith in a consensus, not facts?


I believe that's called religion, or argumentum ad populum, take your pick.
 
2011-12-12 02:08:32 PM  

ciberido: "Skepticism" is not a synonym for "denial" and should be not used as such, nor should "skeptic" be used as a more polite way to say "denier."

Holocaust denial is not skepticism.
Creationism is not skepticism.
Denial of anthropogenic climate change is not skepticism.


I'm not so sure about your definitions.
 
2011-12-12 02:09:18 PM  

kbronsito: ... or maybe if he showed up in a column of fire or some other awesome form for a day out of the year to answer important question for say 20 mins. That's all it would take. He shows up... our duly appointed representative use the time to ask questions submitted and voted on by the people : 1. Gays... a) good, b) bad, c)you don't care? 2. Abortions yay or nay? 3. Is it true gingers have no soul?

That's all it would take...


Think about how many people claim that the moon landings are a hoax. If what you describe really were to come to pass, how many non-Christians do you really think would start believing, rather than claim the whole thing was done with special effects?
 
2011-12-12 02:10:59 PM  

Kali-Yuga: Joe Blowme: So what is it called when you have faith in a consensus, not facts?

I believe that's called religion, or argumentum ad populum, take your pick.


So AGW is a religion? Does that make Al Gore a profit?

/see what i did there?
 
2011-12-12 02:11:22 PM  

Joe Blowme: So what is it called when you have faith in a consensus, not facts?


Religion.
 
2011-12-12 02:11:54 PM  

Joelogon: You guys need to RTFA *and* both halves of the headline.

/stubmitter


But, but... reading's hard! And we don't need no stinkin' comprehension.
 
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