Surprise.

Rich Cream: Which 1%? The clergymen?

Close...The Angels.

Thus we see the demise of modern capitalism, brought down not by socialists or fringe elements, but by the capitalists themselves.



but...but...SOCIALISMS!

Can't we just keep blaming Obama and those sky-high taxes on the rich?

People need money to buy stuff. When money is exchanged for stuff, the producers of stuff buy more raw materials to make more stuff and pay the workers. The workers buy stuff they need for their own lives, and the sellers of that stuff use the money to buy stuff they need to sell to people and maintain their own businesses and so on. When the flow of money is slowed or stopped that can cause an interruption of the buying and selling of stuff. If a company can't sell as much stuff as it had in the past it has to find new stuff to make or ways to sell the old stuff or face the possibility of losing money and going out of business. Companies have to contract to stay afloat and workers are made redundant and laid off. The workers have less money and can't buy as much stuff and sellers of stuff have fewer sales and can't afford to have as many workers and have to lay workers off and workers have less money and/or are fearful of their future and don't buy as much stuff as they had in the past and spend less money and sellers of stuff have fewer sales and can't afford to have as many workers and have to lay workers off and workers have less money and/or are fearful of their future and don't buy as much stuff as they had in the past and spend less money and this becomes a bloody vicious circle until someone/something injects more money into the system or conditions change to give more confidence to people so they decide to buy more stuff and demand more stuff to be made. And that's the way it is in an economy based on making, selling and buying stuff. Capitalism 101.

Weaver95: Thus we see the demise of modern capitalism, brought down not by socialists or fringe elements, but by the capitalists themselves.

but...but...SOCIALISMS!

Isn't this the proof that capitalism doesn't work, and the free market really doesn't work? That's what all of this is. There was nothing stopping any of this. The market did this to itself, completely without government interference and regulation stopping them.

The free market has destroyed this country.

A strong middle class is not the enemy of the 1%. It is the cause of it.

GAT_00: Isn't this the proof that capitalism doesn't work

Capitalism works fine, just like fire works fine. Both need intelligent limits.

St_Francis_P: GAT_00: Isn't this the proof that capitalism doesn't work

Capitalism works fine, just like fire works fine. Both need intelligent limits.

I had a much longer reply ready to go...but I like this one better.

Welcome to figuring out what both our Roosevelt presidents figured out nearly a century ago.

1% starting to realize that maybe the 99% actually needs foreign markets like India and China can easily replace the domestic ones because they have money to purchase goods to keep the their economy working.

We don't matter folks. As time goes on and they have secured all of the blood out of this turnip, they will just move on to greener pastures in Asia and we will be a third world nation.

FWIW the actual 1% seems to know this. It's their boot licking toadies that have gotten out of control. At some point states will figure out they can print their own money. Left with no operating capitol for basic services each state will become a separate economic corporation and if you want to buy something from Cali you're going to have to convert your NY Apples into California Palms.

quickdraw: At some point states will figure out they can print their own money. Left with no operating capitol for basic services each state will become a separate economic corporation

We tried that twice already. First with the Articles of Confederation. Second with the Confederate States of America. In that model, each State will independently fail.

Great!

Weaver95: Thus we see the demise of modern capitalism, brought down not by socialists or fringe elements, but by the capitalists themselves.



but...but...SOCIALISMS!

Rational people can see that rejecting a purely socialist state doesn't mean one should espouse a corporatist neo-feudalism.

But people are pissed that a tollbooth operator in NY is making 6 figures with overtime.

casual disregard: quickdraw: At some point states will figure out they can print their own money. Left with no operating capitol for basic services each state will become a separate economic corporation

We tried that twice already. First with the Articles of Confederation. Second with the Confederate States of America. In that model, each State will independently fail.

Great!

Well, to be fair, they are failing now.

doyner: Rational people can see that rejecting a purely socialist state doesn't mean one should espouse a corporatist neo-feudalism.

Americans on the other hand, are farked.

quickdraw: FWIW the actual 1% seems to know this. It's their boot licking toadies that have gotten out of control.

Congress?

GAT_00: free market really doesn't work?

We've never had a truly free market (as I'm sure you know, I'm just making a point here), or what anyone with half a brain calls fu*king anarchy.

There's a dark part of me that sometimes wishes these dim-witted, tea-bagging useful idiots who go around ranting about their Objectivist free market utopia would actually get a taste of what that really means for a while. Like, just 6 months or so of really, truly free markets, and then have the survivors take a vote on whether it's really a good idea or not.

I've got guns, I think I can wait 'em out.

So we can't build an economy based solely on service industry employees?

GAT_00: Weaver95: Thus we see the demise of modern capitalism, brought down not by socialists or fringe elements, but by the capitalists themselves.

but...but...SOCIALISMS!

Isn't this the proof that capitalism doesn't work, and the free market really doesn't work? That's what all of this is. There was nothing stopping any of this. The market did this to itself, completely without government interference and regulation stopping them.

The free market has destroyed this country.

no. it's proof that the market doesn't manage itself. a working capitalist economy requires effective and efficient regulation, good distribution of wealth, and employees and employers respecting each other.

also... you cannot run a significant trade deficit for 20 years.


personally i think a capitalist/socialist hybrid system works better - partially because it is more difficult to slide back into the laissez-faire dysfunction we have now.

SockMonkeyHolocaust: I still contend that the rich 1% are not rewarded enough. They are the ones making the money and running the world but the ungrateful people want to punish them for driving change and industry. ON STRIKE! ON STRIKE! ON STRIKE!

That would make a great plot for a book!

SockMonkeyHolocaust: ON STRIKE!

God, wouldn't that be awesome?

"Look, Mister Rich Industrialist, I know you think you're a genius because you are where you are, and I know your ego is telling you that sh*t would fall apart without you, but here's the fact: 80% of what got you here was luck. Being in the right place at the right time. 18% was pushing the right people off a cliff at the right time.

If you go on strike, Mr. Rich Industrialist-- and I hope that you do-- there are endless lines of people just as smart as you who will fall all over themselves to jump in your still-warm shoes. And guess what? They will succeed just as well as you. Because you are not a unique and special snowflake, sir. You are just a very lucky one.

Now go on and show us all what a big man you are."

Calmamity: or what anyone with half a brain calls fu*king anarchy.

anarchy would not give you a free market. in fact it would give you a less free one, because the large/strong will be able to coerce the week. coercion is one of the problems we have right now.


don't confuse an "unregulated market" with a "free market".

m2313: GAT_00: Isn't this the proof that capitalism doesn't work, and the free market really doesn't work? That's what all of this is. There was nothing stopping any of this. The market did this to itself, completely without government interference and regulation stopping them.

The free market has destroyed this country.

While this should be more than evident by now, I disagree that the state is the answer.

Can you suggest another entity that is sufficiently influential to fill the role?

That's a sincere question. I'm not able to imagine any other alternative to some degree of state regulation. What other entity has both the power and the socially recognized authority to accomplish that end?

I'm not "making a point," I am sincerely asking- what other entity, besides the state, could accomplish what you and I agree is the desired goal of reigning in the market?

Momiage: We don't matter folks. As time goes on and they have secured all of the blood out of this turnip, they will just move on to greener pastures in Asia and we will be a third world nation.

THIS. Giving over all control to the Holy Job Creators is setting this country up to be history's biggest sucker. Unbelievably, it turns out when you pledge undying loyalty to an entity that is only interested in profit, it will draw up all of your resources and then plant a knife in your back within the first microsecond the relationship is no longer profitable! Who could have possibly seen that one coming!