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		Lakers: "Screw you guys, I'm going home" (espn.go.com)		88
		More: Followup, Lakers, Chris Paul, Hedo Turkoglu, Tyson Chandler, Chris Kaman, Eric Gordon, Deron Williams, Brook Lopez

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DamnYankees

2011-12-11 04:07:37 PM

We're so farked.

Obtuse_Otter

2011-12-11 05:06:14 PM

redmond24

2011-12-11 05:07:13 PM

SO farked.

If we don't get D12 then I'm calling Dallas v Miami.

LucklessWonder

2011-12-11 05:09:44 PM

Can't say I blame them. Now if there was only some way my team, the Magic get something good back for Howard.

Obtuse_Otter

2011-12-11 05:12:21 PM

LucklessWonder: Can't say I blame them. Now if there was only some way my team, the Magic get something good back for Howard.

The lakers will gladly trade you bynum, a bag of jolly ranchers and a kardashian to be named later for howard.

LucklessWonder

2011-12-11 05:17:02 PM

Obtuse_Otter: LucklessWonder: Can't say I blame them. Now if there was only some way my team, the Magic get something good back for Howard.

The lakers will gladly trade you bynum, a bag of jolly ranchers and a kardashian to be named later for howard.

Hence the good qualified. Do like Bynum but needs to be more than just him...

drew46n2

2011-12-11 06:15:26 PM

good. for once they can't manipulate the league for their own benefit. Now lets hope they can't swindle Howard.

Pyro Messiah

2011-12-11 06:23:07 PM

I'm glad Stern blocked that trade. Comic Sans tirades aside, Gilbert made a perfectly good point about 25 teams having no chance. The NBA is seriously flawed. I love the Wizards but with the league as it is they have zero chance of ever winning anything. That applies to pretty much any team not in LA, Boston, NY, Miami or Texas.

oMaJoJ

2011-12-11 06:31:41 PM

drew46n2: good. for once they can't manipulate the league for their own benefit. Now lets hope they can't swindle Howard.

How the hell did the Lakers manipulate the league?

Obtuse_Otter

2011-12-11 06:34:26 PM

drew46n2: good. for once they can't manipulate the league for their own benefit. Now lets hope they can't swindle Howard.

I don't mind them getting Howard or Paul for that matter. I would be jealous if they got both of them but I would accept it.

What I do mind is idiots thinking the NBA doesn't have the right to decide what the Hornets do. The media spin on this the last few days has been amazing.

merkey88

2011-12-11 06:39:09 PM

This is a loss for the hornets. They will get nothing for Paul at the end of the season.

drew46n2

2011-12-11 06:49:41 PM

oMaJoJ: drew46n2: good. for once they can't manipulate the league for their own benefit. Now lets hope they can't swindle Howard.

How the hell did the Lakers manipulate the league?

most recently? the Gasol trade in 08, and the attempted Chris Paul deal.Obtuse_Otter: What I do mind is idiots thinking the NBA doesn't have the right to decide what the Hornets do. The media spin on this the last few days has been amazing.

that's because fans are idiots, and ESPN is fully invested in the Lakers having a product they can wrap their mouth around and suck.

Obtuse_Otter

2011-12-11 06:57:53 PM

merkey88: This is a loss for the hornets. They will get nothing for Paul at the end of the season.

merkey88: This is a loss for the hornets. They will get nothing for Paul at the end of the season.

If they don't move him by the end of the season somehow I will agree. However, all they have done so far is veto one possible trade. Do you think it is wrong for them to be shopping around?

The Hornets franchised is already screwed and their best option is to go into full rebuilding mode. The initial Lakers deal was fair from a talent perspective but not in regards to the needs of the team.

The team that as suffered the most from what has happened so far is the Lakers.

So my question for you is: Do you really care about the future of the Hornets or are you just mad the Lakers didn't get Paul right off the bat?

merkey88

2011-12-11 07:05:54 PM

Obtuse_Otter: merkey88: This is a loss for the hornets. They will get nothing for Paul at the end of the season.

merkey88: This is a loss for the hornets. They will get nothing for Paul at the end of the season.

If they don't move him by the end of the season somehow I will agree. However, all they have done so far is veto one possible trade. Do you think it is wrong for them to be shopping around?

The Hornets franchised is already screwed and their best option is to go into full rebuilding mode. The initial Lakers deal was fair from a talent perspective but not in regards to the needs of the team.

The team that as suffered the most from what has happened so far is the Lakers.

So my question for you is: Do you really care about the future of the Hornets or are you just mad the Lakers didn't get Paul right off the bat?

I think this prevents the hornets from getting the best deal for Paul.
I am in no way a laker fan, and don't watch much NBA outside of the playoffs.

Mike_LowELL

2011-12-11 07:07:01 PM

ITT: Fans get mad when teams with the most assets are capable of leveraging those assets.

Trocadero

2011-12-11 07:10:16 PM

Now every big team w/ good assets knows they can't deal for Paul. The only ones left are small lousy teams loaded w/ draft picks. Guess what? He won't sign an extension there, either! And those teams know it! What the hell could NOLA get back in a trade that way? How about they go to the Lakers or some other big team, get a lot of good parts, and then flip those parts to the other, lousier, younger teams for rebuilding pieces (much better draft picks)? Nobody who could afford Chris Paul (and who he'd want to re-sign w/) has that much true young talent/great draft picks right now. It's a damn pipe dream. Chicago or OKC aren't gutting their rosters for Chris Paul.

/Odom definitely sulked his way out of LA
//E! reality producers just wet themselves over the episodes they're going to get to write next season

Obtuse_Otter

2011-12-11 07:10:38 PM

Mike_LowELL: ITT: Fans get mad when teams with the most assets are capable of leveraging those assets.

Who here is mad at the Clippers?

Trocadero

2011-12-11 07:23:55 PM

Obtuse_Otter: Mike_LowELL: ITT: Fans get mad when teams with the most assets are capable of leveraging those assets.

Who here is mad at the Clippers?

The Clippers don't have nearly the assets the Lakers do.

Clippers value (new window)
Lakers value (new window)

Revenue alone is $100M more for the Lakers, and they play in the exact same building.

Also, and more importantly, Donald Sterling is the goddamn devil.

oMaJoJ

2011-12-11 07:29:30 PM

drew46n2: oMaJoJ: drew46n2: good. for once they can't manipulate the league for their own benefit. Now lets hope they can't swindle Howard.

How the hell did the Lakers manipulate the league?

most recently? the Gasol trade in 08, and the attempted Chris Paul deal.Obtuse_Otter: What I do mind is idiots thinking the NBA doesn't have the right to decide what the Hornets do. The media spin on this the last few days has been amazing.

that's because fans are idiots, and ESPN is fully invested in the Lakers having a product they can wrap their mouth around and suck.

So, trades for teams you don't like is "manipulating the league." Gotcha

/So when is Cuban going to start complaining about this Laker trade?

bukketmaster

2011-12-11 07:33:03 PM

Obtuse_Otter: merkey88: This is a loss for the hornets. They will get nothing for Paul at the end of the season.

merkey88: This is a loss for the hornets. They will get nothing for Paul at the end of the season.

If they don't move him by the end of the season somehow I will agree. However, all they have done so far is veto one possible trade. Do you think it is wrong for them to be shopping around?

Shopping around for what?

Nobody's going to bother making offers similar to the last trade since just to see the league reject them, and nobody's going to offer more because only LA had the necessary combination of interest, desperation, and personnell + finances. Plus, Paul's great but he's on borrowed time, once your knee cartilage is gone it's gone.

To think that they can do better for an (admittedly great) PG with bad knees, an expiring contract, and a short list of teams he'll actually re-sign with is delusional. This was it. they're not doing better.

oMaJoJ

2011-12-11 07:39:17 PM

So Dell Demps is basically in a Simpsons Movie "President Schwarzenegger" position.

bahamasorbust

2011-12-11 07:39:38 PM

NotEric

2011-12-11 07:43:24 PM

Jerry Buss ends up in the hospital this week and then madness ensues.

oMaJoJ

2011-12-11 07:48:06 PM

bahamasorbust: drew46n2: oMaJoJ: drew46n2: good. for once they can't manipulate the league for their own benefit. Now lets hope they can't swindle Howard.

How the hell did the Lakers manipulate the league?

most recently? the Gasol trade in 08, and the attempted Chris Paul deal..

Yeah, how dare the Lakers offer up a fair trade. Total manipulation.
I'm sure you being a Spurs fan doesn't cloud your judgment at all.

Wait, he's a Spurs fan? That small market team that's always around because they are competent and well run?

/I wish more teams were run like the Spurs
//Lakers fan
///fark the Spurs

LucklessWonder

2011-12-11 08:15:23 PM

Lopsided trades aren't the same as league manipulation.

This guy did league manipulation
a323.yahoofs.com

This guy just made a bad trade as a GM

memphisport.com

bhcompy

2011-12-11 08:18:48 PM

Trocadero: Now every big team w/ good assets knows they can't deal for Paul. The only ones left are small lousy teams loaded w/ draft picks. Guess what? He won't sign an extension there, either! And those teams know it! What the hell could NOLA get back in a trade that way? How about they go to the Lakers or some other big team, get a lot of good parts, and then flip those parts to the other, lousier, younger teams for rebuilding pieces (much better draft picks)? Nobody who could afford Chris Paul (and who he'd want to re-sign w/) has that much true young talent/great draft picks right now. It's a damn pipe dream. Chicago or OKC aren't gutting their rosters for Chris Paul.

Exactly. 3 GMs agreed to deals that were beneficial to all. Now the rich get richer, as the Mavericks get Lamar for a sack of magic beans. The Griz got a lot more for Pau than the Lakers did for Lamar, who is the most versatile 6'10 player ever.

The only team that might have the talent is the Clippers, but I don't think they're stupid enough to trade Eric Gordon for Paul. Gordon is worth more and is significantly younger, plus they have a capable point guard in Eric Bledsoe already. Why trade your best guard(one of the best young players in the league) and your best compliment to Griffin for another guard who's older, more expensive, and has no incentive to stay past the end of the year?

skrame

2011-12-11 08:23:53 PM

Pyro Messiah: I love the Wizards but with the league as it is they have zero chance of ever winning anything. That applies to pretty much any team not in LA, Boston, NY, Miami or Texas.

Not Chicago? Also, Miami is only the 44th most populous city in the US. What makes them different?

/not snarkin'. honest questions.

bhcompy

2011-12-11 08:24:07 PM

LucklessWonder: This guy just made a bad trade as a GM

You really think it's a bad trade? You want to know a bad trade he made? Kevin Love. Pau for Marc has turned out well for the team, plus 2 first rounders and a small basket of other players. The fact is they made awful choices in the subsequent drafts, and that's hurt them way more than losing Pau(which was inevitable, like it is with Paul). They got something for Pau, they had a chance to get more. The Hornets aren't going to get shiat for Paul now.

gtfan92

2011-12-11 08:29:21 PM

bhcompy: The Hornets aren't going to get shiat for Paul now.

Except for the whole rumor that the Clips might trade EG/Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/1strounder for Cp3. Much better than what they would have gotten from LAL.

gtfan92

2011-12-11 08:31:38 PM

LucklessWonder

2011-12-11 08:31:44 PM

bhcompy: LucklessWonder: This guy just made a bad trade as a GM

You really think it's a bad trade?

In hindsight, no. But at he time it looked bloody awful.

Obtuse_Otter

2011-12-11 08:35:12 PM

bhcompy

2011-12-11 08:43:09 PM

gtfan92: bhcompy: The Hornets aren't going to get shiat for Paul now.

Except for the whole rumor that the Clips might trade EG/Bledsoe/Kaman/Aminu/1strounder for Cp3. Much better than what they would have gotten from LAL.

It would be unfathomable to trade EG and Bledsoe. It would be stupid to trade EG. Bledsoe is a possibility, as they will need a PG and he's good enough. The Clippers already have Randy Foye as the backup, so Bledsoe becomes redundant with Paul. Kaman is a spare part and expiring contract(no better than , Aminu is an unknown quantity(still developing), and that 1st rounder isn't theirs. Kaman, Bledsoe, and the 1st rounder would be a fine trade from the Clippers perspective. They lose nothing. Anything that includes EG is too much. You don't trade a 22 year old budding superstar when he has such great chemistry with your other young superstar. As is, the Clippers have the makeup of a playoff team and they'll be Thunder like dangerous to any team they face, particularly older teams like the Spurs, Mavs, and Lakers.

If the Clips trade EG, the GM should be drawn and quartered.

Mitch Taylor's Bro

2011-12-11 08:43:50 PM

LO is a very emotional guy. I think he overreacted to the Paul trade and should have cooled off before having his meeting with Kupchak. But at least he went to a very good team.

The Lakers (and I am a pretty hardcore Lakers fan) probably would have done better with Paul than with Howard. The most glaring weakness they have is at PG. Fisher (whom I love to death) made JJ Barea look like an all-star and no amount of defensive help from a very tall front line was going to get around that fact that he's not going to keep up with the league's faster point guards. We need younger, faster legs to go deep into the playoffs this year. Otherwise, it might be time to blow up the team, send Kobe to a contender, and start rebuilding.

As for the aborted trade, what team that Paul would want to re-sign with could put together a better offer? He may end up being a Laker next year anyway.

Mitch Taylor's Bro

2011-12-11 08:49:14 PM

LucklessWonder: Lopsided trades aren't the same as league manipulation.

This guy did league manipulation
[a323.yahoofs.com image 400x500]

This guy just made a bad trade as a GM

[memphisport.com image 600x360]

Is Memphis better, the same, or worse than before the Gasol trade?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Memphis_Grizzlies_seasons

Yup, bad trade from the myopic sports fan's perspective, but as a GM, he picked up the Lakers' other pet project (Marc Gasol) and set the stage for many good moves that followed. I think it was a very good trade that just took 3 years to develop.

Mitch Taylor's Bro

2011-12-11 08:51:18 PM

bhcompy: The only team that might have the talent is the Clippers, but I don't think they're stupid enough to trade Eric Gordon for Paul.

Never underestimate the Clippers' stupidity. There may be a salary cap, but there isn't a stupidity cap.

oMaJoJ

2011-12-11 08:52:45 PM

Mitch Taylor's Bro

2011-12-11 08:56:09 PM

skrame: Pyro Messiah: I love the Wizards but with the league as it is they have zero chance of ever winning anything. That applies to pretty much any team not in LA, Boston, NY, Miami or Texas.

Not Chicago? Also, Miami is only the 44th most populous city in the US. What makes them different?

/not snarkin'. honest questions.

Non-snarky, honest answer: Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA) is one of the preferred ways to measure the size of a market, not a city's population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_metropolitan_area

Miami is a top-ten MSA. There are other ways to measure market size, though, that have to do with income and other factors.

bhcompy

2011-12-11 08:57:10 PM

Mitch Taylor's Bro: bhcompy: The only team that might have the talent is the Clippers, but I don't think they're stupid enough to trade Eric Gordon for Paul.

Never underestimate the Clippers' stupidity. There may be a salary cap, but there isn't a stupidity cap.

Well, that is generally the case, but they do seem to be taking this offseason seriously. Signed C Butler and will by all indications match the offer sheet for DeAndre Jordan. Bledsoe, Gordon, Butler, Griffin, Jordan looks like a pretty good team on paper, and they've got real good reserves and options for going small or big with Kaman and Foye on the bench. No, they aren't a championship team with the way the league works the playoffs today(favors old teams that run half court offenses with the way the games are officiated and the break between each game), but they aren't with Paul, either.

Pesky_Humans

2011-12-11 08:58:55 PM

drew46n2: good. for once they can't manipulate the league for their own benefit. Now lets hope they can't swindle Howard.

That's some garbage right there. What exactly are you talking about?

The Lakers are like every other sports team in that they try to put the best players they can afford. They did nothing wrong in trying to acquire CP, and in fact they kept the NBA in the loop during the entire process of setting up the deal. Butthurt owners whined and Stern pulled the rug out from under them at the last minute. By all accounts, this was a good deal for all the teams involved.

Keeping CP in NO does nothing to make them a viable franchise. He's out at the end of this year anyway. By allowing that trade to go through, NO would have at least got some value for their star player. Now they are going to have to pay the guy a lot of money to play for a team that he doesn't want to play for, and is going to be gone at the end of the year regardless.

I'm sorry that you are probably a fan of a team that doesn't win championships like the Lakers do. But don't turn around and hate on them for "manipulating the league." That's horsesh*t and you know it. Star players want to play in LA because it's a big market, LA is a great city to play in and live in, and they have a tradition of winning championships.

Mitch Taylor's Bro

2011-12-11 08:59:11 PM

LucklessWonder: bhcompy: LucklessWonder: This guy just made a bad trade as a GM

You really think it's a bad trade?

In hindsight, no. But at he time it looked bloody awful.

No, you hear "Kwame Brown" and you automatically think "fail." But IIRC, his massive, expiring contract was like money in the bank for Memphis. That's what they were looking for--and got--in the trade.

bhcompy

2011-12-11 09:01:53 PM

Forgot Mo Williams, as well. Mo starting over Bledsoe. Also brings up the question of why bring in Paul when you have one who is considered a good PG and one who is athletic and talented but generally unproven already?

Mitch Taylor's Bro

2011-12-11 09:03:55 PM

bhcompy: Mitch Taylor's Bro: bhcompy: The only team that might have the talent is the Clippers, but I don't think they're stupid enough to trade Eric Gordon for Paul.

Never underestimate the Clippers' stupidity. There may be a salary cap, but there isn't a stupidity cap.

Well, that is generally the case, but they do seem to be taking this offseason seriously. Signed C Butler and will by all indications match the offer sheet for DeAndre Jordan. Bledsoe, Gordon, Butler, Griffin, Jordan looks like a pretty good team on paper, and they've got real good reserves and options for going small or big with Kaman and Foye on the bench. No, they aren't a championship team with the way the league works the playoffs today(favors old teams that run half court offenses with the way the games are officiated and the break between each game), but they aren't with Paul, either.

So, basically, they're last year's team + Butler. Maybe they're a playoff team in the weaker WC, but I don't know if Butler makes them that much better. But if you're arguing from the perspective of "Hey, at least they haven't done anything extremely stupid since the CBA was approved," I agree :-)

Mitch Taylor's Bro

2011-12-11 09:09:43 PM

Pesky_Humans: Star players want to play in LA because it's a big market, LA is a great city to play in and live in, and they have a tradition of winning championships.

Jalen Rose said the tighter salary cap may actually work against small market teams because if you take pay out of the equation, free agents are going to look at other factors, such as likelihood of winning, climate, non-NBA marketing opportunities, etc. Heck, IIRC, Baron Davis wanted to come to LA -- and was willing to do it as a Clipper -- because he eventually wants to be a filmmaker and LA is the place to do that.

bhcompy

2011-12-11 09:12:04 PM

Mitch Taylor's Bro: bhcompy: Mitch Taylor's Bro: bhcompy: The only team that might have the talent is the Clippers, but I don't think they're stupid enough to trade Eric Gordon for Paul.

Never underestimate the Clippers' stupidity. There may be a salary cap, but there isn't a stupidity cap.

Well, that is generally the case, but they do seem to be taking this offseason seriously. Signed C Butler and will by all indications match the offer sheet for DeAndre Jordan. Bledsoe, Gordon, Butler, Griffin, Jordan looks like a pretty good team on paper, and they've got real good reserves and options for going small or big with Kaman and Foye on the bench. No, they aren't a championship team with the way the league works the playoffs today(favors old teams that run half court offenses with the way the games are officiated and the break between each game), but they aren't with Paul, either.

So, basically, they're last year's team + Butler. Maybe they're a playoff team in the weaker WC, but I don't know if Butler makes them that much better. But if you're arguing from the perspective of "Hey, at least they haven't done anything extremely stupid since the CBA was approved," I agree :-)

Except you had Griffin has a rookie essentially, Eric Gordon developing, Chris Kaman out with a bad back(DeAndre Jordan was not considered the future at the start of last year, and developed during the year), Baron Davis starting at PG when healthy, etc. The team last year was untested, and they had stretches of great basketball. Look at some of their wins, they beat the best in the league at some points, but they also went through stretches where they played very poorly, like real young teams do. As of right now they're not all that different than the Bulls or Thunder of a few years ago. They're very talented, but they're young.

A Fark Handle

2011-12-11 09:13:15 PM

1) i hate the lakers
2) what the league did in killing the paul trade was unethical, wrong, stupid, and shortsighted.

it was the best deal available. it was negotiated independent of the league office (as the league had said the hornets basketball operations would be). the hornets were getting 2 decent forwards, a good young shooting guard, and good back-up point guard with playoff experience and potential, and first round draft pick for a player that was leaving for nothing in seven months. however, the league wanted to put the players in their place and pulled a historically god damn stupid bush-leauge bullshiat move and killed the deal, which broke their stated promise to let the hornets basketball folks operate independently. stern must go.

/also, the league shouldn't be buying teams...

bhcompy

2011-12-11 09:15:05 PM

Mitch Taylor's Bro: Pesky_Humans: Star players want to play in LA because it's a big market, LA is a great city to play in and live in, and they have a tradition of winning championships.

Jalen Rose said the tighter salary cap may actually work against small market teams because if you take pay out of the equation, free agents are going to look at other factors, such as likelihood of winning, climate, non-NBA marketing opportunities, etc. Heck, IIRC, Baron Davis wanted to come to LA -- and was willing to do it as a Clipper -- because he eventually wants to be a filmmaker and LA is the place to do that.

That's also the reasoning in the media for Dwight, Lakers or Clippers, but now there's talk he doesn't want to be Shaq-2

skrame

2011-12-11 09:43:56 PM

Obtuse_Otter: skrame: Pyro Messiah: I love the Wizards but with the league as it is they have zero chance of ever winning anything. That applies to pretty much any team not in LA, Boston, NY, Miami or Texas.

Not Chicago? Also, Miami is only the 44th most populous city in the US. What makes them different?

/not snarkin'. honest questions.

Miami is the 8th largest market in the country.

16th, if we're going by DMA (new window). So why can the Heat swing what Philly, Detroit, and others can't?

puffy999

2011-12-11 09:47:25 PM

Meanwhile, Brandon Roy is still retired, and Fark doesn't give a f*ck.

gtfan92

2011-12-11 09:48:41 PM

skrame: So why can the Heat swing what Philly, Detroit, and others can't?

Is this really a question?

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