And a healthy dose of "OH SHEET!!!"

The price of oil and 9/11 are why air travel sucks.

fuel?

TFA: "On recognising the error, the captain immediately amended the flight path to ensure the aircraft climbed safely away. No impact whatsoever was felt by the passengers," Thomas Cook told the Daily Mail.

That's one way of putting it...

MooseUpNorth: TFA: "On recognising the error, the captain immediately amended the flight path to ensure the aircraft climbed safely away. No impact whatsoever was felt by the passengers," Thomas Cook told the Daily Mail.

That's one way of putting it...

beat me to it

Yeah.

The stowaways in the wheel wells?

Still pales in comparison to the Air France flight that crashed. Those pilots forgot that if something breaks (air speed indicator) you might need to actually fly the plane yourself.

Charlie Freak: Snipped because that's all Greek to me and I really just wan't to ask you a question...

Why can't pilots just throw the throttle to the farking max when taking off?
Once the plane is off the ground you can go ahead and fiddle with your speed, but until then wouldn't that help make sure we don't run off the end of the runway?

If this was American airlines I would have said something along the lines of, "that's what you get when you shiat all over labor and steal their pensions"

But it's not, it's just some random British airline that probably hired crappy civilian pilots

Wait, that's only three... hmm, what's missing?


Snakes?

The weight of the mind control agent used to make contrails?

CornDog in 2012: If this was American airlines I would have said something along the lines of, "that's what you get when you shiat all over labor and steal their pensions"

I know, right? I'd gladly pay twice as much for a ticket if it meant some guy got a pension after spending decades at a high paying job.

Mattyb710: Charlie Freak: Snipped because that's all Greek to me and I really just wan't to ask you a question...

Why can't pilots just throw the throttle to the farking max when taking off?
Once the plane is off the ground you can go ahead and fiddle with your speed, but until then wouldn't that help make sure we don't run off the end of the runway?

I don't know but I would guess it has to do with the cost of fuel and the slim profit margins of the airlines.

It is generally the first office who does these calculations. I think we know of one who won't be making captain anytime soon.

vossiewulf: They should invent something to prevent these types of problems. A list of things you need to check, as it were. Perhaps... yes. We could call them "check lists" and we could use them to help us make sure we have covered everything in a multi-step process.

Keep up your day dreaming. Your "check list" idea would have to printed on some kind of paper, and we all know the cost of said paper would greatly exceed any damages caused by some accident. Right?

...This entire process isn't controlled by a computer why?

He forgot to bury the survivors.

NkThrasher: ...This entire process isn't controlled by a computer why?

"Thomas Cook Airlines." Kinda gives me the same shudder as "Bob Jones University."

Mattyb710: Charlie Freak: Snipped because that's all Greek to me and I really just wan't to ask you a question...

Why can't pilots just throw the throttle to the farking max when taking off?
Once the plane is off the ground you can go ahead and fiddle with your speed, but until then wouldn't that help make sure we don't run off the end of the runway?

The vast majority of airline flights don't take off at full power. The company likes it because it saves on fuel and engine wear, the pilots like it because the lesser the power the engine is outputting, the less likely it is to fail (which, during takeoff, usually happens in a very exciting manner).

The short version of the story is that you take the length of the runway you have, say 10000ft... plan for a 4000ft safety margin. That means you want to lift off the runway 6000ft down it. Based on your current weight, you then calculate how much power you need to lift off at 6000ft down the runway.

Thats why a mistake like this can be pretty severe. The plane may have had the capability of more than enough power to take off, but if the weight was calculated wrong, the pilots would've not selected enough thrust to get it off the runway at the unknown higher than calculated weight. Usually though, theres a big enough safety margin where nothing bad happens.... at least to the passengers. The pilots (and airline) usually end up with some serious explaining to do.

"That's the sound someone makes when they're about to die..."

ThisNameSux: CornDog in 2012: If this was American airlines I would have said something along the lines of, "that's what you get when you shiat all over labor and steal their pensions"

I know, right? I'd gladly pay twice as much for a ticket if it meant some guy got a pension after spending decades at a high paying job.

I'd gladly pay twice as much for a ticket on an airline that was comprised mostly of long-term, highly educated and experienced professionals that chose to stick around because they were enticed by a pension as apposed to jumping ship to another airline with new equipment and systems.

/But YMMV
//Especially if you don't calculate your fuel correctly.

Mattyb710: Charlie Freak: Snipped because that's all Greek to me and I really just wan't to ask you a question...

Why can't pilots just throw the throttle to the farking max when taking off?
Once the plane is off the ground you can go ahead and fiddle with your speed, but until then wouldn't that help make sure we don't run off the end of the runway?

Because some crybaby fark will complain about the acceleration. Gotta milk it as smooth as possible for the passengers. Commercial flights suffer from all sorts of BS due to crybaby customers. Oddly enough thats also the same reason you get rough landings...a go around would take so much time people would complain, apparently more than they do about a hard bump. The rule is as long as its "safe", you put it on the ground the first time.

When taking off a private plane its done the logical way...set your flaps, etc for take-off and firewall the throttle.

Mentalpatient87: [content6.flixster.com image 401x550]
"That's the sound someone makes when they're about to die..."

That was such a great scene.

Fuel. I guessed correctly.

An almost fanatical devotion to the Pope?

Sultan Of Herf: Mattyb710: Charlie Freak: Snipped because that's all Greek to me and I really just wan't to ask you a question...

Why can't pilots just throw the throttle to the farking max when taking off?
Once the plane is off the ground you can go ahead and fiddle with your speed, but until then wouldn't that help make sure we don't run off the end of the runway?

Because some crybaby fark will complain about the acceleration. Gotta milk it as smooth as possible for the passengers. Commercial flights suffer from all sorts of BS due to crybaby customers. Oddly enough thats also the same reason you get rough landings...a go around would take so much time people would complain, apparently more than they do about a hard bump. The rule is as long as its "safe", you put it on the ground the first time.

When taking off a private plane its done the logical way...set your flaps, etc for take-off and firewall the throttle.


First flight I ever took (just a couple years ago, I was an adult) the pilot floored it, it was pretty awesome force, I was very disappointed in every flight after that to discover that takeoffs don't normally pin you to your seat.

Suktan Of Herf:
When taking off a private plane its done the logical way...set your flaps, etc for take-off and firewall the throttle.

...which is why EFATO (Engine Failure After Take Off) is one of the biggest killers of pilots flying small planes.

Every single flight I have been on where the pilot(s) firewall the throttles has had some sort of noise abatement procedures (one also had weather issues). Get the plane off the runway, upto a couple thousand feet as soon as possible, then level and throttle back to keep the rich biatches from being disturbed by a jet taking off...


Oh, did I mention the airport was in place long before the housing off the end of the runway..

cirby: Suktan Of Herf:
When taking off a private plane its done the logical way...set your flaps, etc for take-off and firewall the throttle.

...which is why EFATO (Engine Failure After Take Off) is one of the biggest killers of pilots flying small planes.

I have no opinion here. I don't fly, but am curious. What is the theory on why Engine Failure After Take Off kills private pilots? Does the full throttle cause the engine to cut out half way out? Would slower, longer take offs prevent this?

So the pilot realized his error, changed the the flight path to compensate, and none of the passengers noticed a thing? Meh - I was hoping for another Gimli Glider. (new window)

michiganteddybear: Every single flight I have been on where the pilot(s) firewall the throttles has had some sort of noise abatement procedures (one also had weather issues). Get the plane off the runway, upto a couple thousand feet as soon as possible, then level and throttle back to keep the rich biatches from being disturbed by a jet taking off...


Oh, did I mention the airport was in place long before the housing off the end of the runway..

John Wayne airport in orange county does this.

I have met some of the biggest douches ever in that airport. My mom was traveling through a few years ago and accidentally got into the "business/first class" line at the security checkpoint. The dude behind her started complaining and yelling at her that she didn't deserve to be there etc etc. Got in her face and everything. I mean really?

Some people need to have their balls chopped off

thamike: Mentalpatient87: [content6.flixster.com image 401x550]
"That's the sound someone makes when they're about to die..."

That was such a great scene.

I know, eugh, it's been haunting me for a week now..

That sounds like something I would have done. I'm always forgetting some mundane detail.

if you lift your feet off the floor when you are in a plane or a car while sitting down you actually weigh less because less of you is touching anything. try it it works. but if you stand up you weigh more because of all that force you are pressing down onto the floor. so lift your feet up when sitting in a plane to help the pilot take off.

I would imagine if the itinerary is already set (which should be the case), the amount of fuel should be known ahead of time and the weight of that fuel should be determined then as well. If so, that number should be automatically entered into the calculations without input by the pilot. Weight of plane is also pretty steady: it doesn't increase or decrease over the course of its lifetime.

The weight of passengers and bags can be estimated based on 180lbs/person (or some number like that), 30lbs/person for carryon, and things going into the cargo hold could be weighed going when packed in the baggage carriers, if those are used. If those aren't used, doesn't the airline do a weight check of the bags at the ticket counter? If so, then every bag is weighed and the weight should be noted on the baggage tag and that data should be routed to total baggage weight for that flight.

Minimize the amount of human input to minimize error.

xmasbaby: I have no opinion here. I don't fly, but am curious. What is the theory on why Engine Failure After Take Off kills private pilots? Does the full throttle cause the engine to cut out half way out? Would slower, longer take offs prevent this?

You know how your car has an RPM gauge with an area in red after you get past several thousand RPMs? Do you know why this area is in red? That's the engine failure thing in a nutshell.

MatrixOutsider: He forgot to deduct the weight of the stuff the TSA agents stole from the passengers' luggage?

And add the weight of that shiny new metal badge.

How heavy is the fuel carried by a typical plane?

dericwater: I would imagine if the itinerary is already set (which should be the case), the amount of fuel should be known ahead of time and the weight of that fuel should be determined then as well. If so, that number should be automatically entered into the calculations without input by the pilot. Weight of plane is also pretty steady: it doesn't increase or decrease over the course of its lifetime.

The weight of passengers and bags can be estimated based on 180lbs/person (or some number like that), 30lbs/person for carryon, and things going into the cargo hold could be weighed going when packed in the baggage carriers, if those are used. If those aren't used, doesn't the airline do a weight check of the bags at the ticket counter? If so, then every bag is weighed and the weight should be noted on the baggage tag and that data should be routed to total baggage weight for that flight.

Minimize the amount of human input to minimize error.

I think the problem is that if the plane just flew in different amounts of fuel may have been used since the last fuel-up based on winds, and weight, and diversions, etc. So every time you are going to take off you have to calculate things again (and even decide whether to take on fuel again, or just go with what you still have.

Now, the whole weight of the passenger thing... this is what infuriates me when some fatty complains about having to buy 2 tickets even though they "fit in the seat!"

Although part of the reason is comfort of other passengers, the real reason you have to buy 2 tickets is because YOU WEIGH ENOUGH FOR TWO PEOPLE.

Because you're twice as heavy as an "average" passenger, you are going to make the plane crash if we sell all the other seats.

/Not really
//But kind of.

Fark_Guy_Rob: How heavy is the fuel carried by a typical plane?

Avgas has a density of 6.02 lb/U.S. gal at 15 °C, or 0.721 kg/l, and this density is commonly used for weight and balance computation. Density increases to 6.40 lb/US gallon at -40 °C, and decreases by about 0.5% per 5 °C (9 °F) increase in temperature.

The amount of fuel carried by an aircraft will obvious vary by model.

Also, planes often don't take off with a "full tank." They will only take on enough fuel for a safe flight in order to save weight.