Women can join frats? Or should that read "fat"? Or did I just lose the game?

My head hurts.

Village bicycle.

They fought two world wars over not wanting to let Berlin run their finances and politics, and thus their liberty. It's no wonder they don't want it ever.

France as usually surrenders. This time though they might get to do some fraking too. The rest of the EU nations seem fine with being bent over by the French and Germans. Can we pledge to let them all wallow around this time around when they crash and burn?

Who is on our side?

England, but they won't last long..

I didn't realize girls were allowed to be fraternity bros...

Hey, I know all of our portfolios are taking a hit right now (stupid I fund), but in the long run how upset should Americans be at the fall of a competing currency? Serious question? Wouldn't this make the US economy grow?

That writer should learn to write in English.

What does that make Nick Clegg?

ZAZ: Cameron is trying to be the smart girl who dumps her drink and runs out the back door just before the cops bust down the front.

This.

Britain wants acts like they want to be a part of europe, but everytime they are asked for an actual commitment they suddenly get cold feet.

Since they don't actually want to participate in any European venture. One can't help the feeling that they might have only joined to sabotage the whole thing from within. Perhaps they should just quit the EU entirely and join the US instead.

Had they agreed, this is how Berlin would have treated them.

Fissile: Had they agreed, this is how Berlin would have treated them.

[darkdeathnote.files.wordpress.com image 291x360]

Where do I sign up?

whidbey: I didn't realize girls were allowed to be fraternity bros...

There are co-ed frats, but yeah, pretty sure subby meant "sorority girl".

No, Cameron's trying to pretend he's the good little girl of Little England's answer to Canada's Creditistes and the USA's Tea Party---the hard-line xenophobic Euro-skeptics who rejected the EU and all its works and all its allegedly empty promises (because they could not control it), are looking forward to seeing the Frogs and Krauts fall flat on their faces (and watching the new fascist governments of southern Europe show the natives how, I shouldn't wonder), and whose attitude towards the euro collapse is "bring it on, the Spaniels robbed us blind on our last hols anyway."

We're talking about people so out of touch with reality that they think if Euroland disappeared Britain could just go back to trading with the empire (Canada, Australia, India), when in the real world half of Britain's exports go to the euro zone (the UK sells more to Ireland than to China). Scared? If your livelihood depends on the well-being of the British economy, you should be.

Thing is, the Euroskeptics make up enough of the Conservative caucus that they could have easily brought down the government, removed him as leader, triggered an election that would effectively be a referendum on EU membership, and polls being what they are, had a decent chance of winning a mandate for withdrawal from the EU. Cameron didn't demand nearly as much as the hardliners wanted, just as much as he thought Germany would accept (and overrule France). When Germany balked, he had no choice but to walk out if he valued Britain's EU membership and his own job.

sanriosucks: Hey, I know all of our portfolios are taking a hit right now (stupid I fund), but in the long run how upset should Americans be at the fall of a competing currency? Serious question? Wouldn't this make the US economy grow?

Short Answer: No.

Slightly Longer Answer: Right now the federal reserve is in the process (and has been for a few years now) of devaluing the American dollar in order to spur exports and reduce relative debt. Devaluing the Euro essentially curbs growth in areas like exports to Europe and investment dollars coming into the US from there.

Furthermore, for years counties around the world have been holding their reserves in US dollars. The recent trend however was for them to start purchasing Euros (infact, China, our biggest debt holder, has been transfering most of it's currency holdings to Euros over the last few years). A tanking of the Euro would reduce this trend and effectively put the damper on any hopes of a US export boom bringing the country out of recession any time soon.

MikeyFuccon: We're talking about people so out of touch with reality

yeah, the Euroskeptics are the ones out of touch with reality, not the people who thought it'd be a great idea for incredibly diverse countries to adopt the same monetary policy.

sanriosucks: Hey, I know all of our portfolios are taking a hit right now (stupid I fund), but in the long run how upset should Americans be at the fall of a competing currency? Serious question? Wouldn't this make the US economy grow?

20% of our imports/exports are to the EU nations. You do the math when that drys up.

(IE, last one on the shiatpile is still on the shiatpile.)

DON.MAC: From Yes Minister (1980):
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Minister, Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least the last 500 years: to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we have fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans, and with the French against the Germans and Italians. Divide and rule, you see. Why should we change now, when it's worked so well?
James Hacker: That's all ancient history, surely.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Yes, and current policy. We had to break the whole thing up, so we had to get inside. We tried to break it up from the outside, but that wouldn't work. Now that we're inside we can make a complete pig's breakfast of the whole thing: set the Germans against the French, the French against the Italians, the Italians against the Dutch. The Foreign Office is terribly pleased; it's just like old times.

THIS! Thank you for posting this.

The real problem here for Britain is that by holding out, they risk having to live with whatever policies the rest of the EU make, without having any bargaining power in diluting the policies or carving out exceptions. But as was mentioned earlier, Cameron was in a no-win situation, and frankly I don't know what else he could have done under the circumstances.

I just hope this fixes the mess, at least until my bank stocks go up enough that I break even, sell, and then all hell can break loose.

Gunther: MikeyFuccon: We're talking about people so out of touch with reality

yeah, the Euroskeptics are the ones out of touch with reality, not the people who thought it'd be a great idea for incredibly diverse countries to adopt the same monetary policy.

Call me crazy, but a diverse economic area using the same currency was never really the problem. The US is just as diverse a place as the euro zone, and it gets on just fine with a single currency. The problem was a lot of money was lent to a lot of people who had no realistic plan for paying it back. That was going to cause trouble under any monetary standard.

Look at it this way. Florida had a lot of real estate deals go bad, like Ireland did. California, meanwhile, is drowning in debt like Greece. Nobody is seriously suggesting Florida or California start printing their own dollars, not least because nobody would accept them (oh, and it would be unconstitutional). If you had a lot of debt you had no real hope of paying back, you'd file for bankruptcy, I presume. I don't think your landlord would let you pay your rent in gunthers.

No, we won't see an end to this until banks are allowed to fail and governments are allowed serious relief on their debts. Just know that when that happens, it will cause a lot of misery for a long time, and not just on the Continent. Schadenfreude is not a policy---and if the Little Englanders think they can escape the fallout when the EU blows up they are dreaming.

MikeyFuccon: Call me crazy, but a diverse economic area using the same currency was never really the problem. The US is just as diverse a place as the euro zone, and it gets on just fine with a single currency. The problem was a lot of money was lent to a lot of people who had no realistic plan for paying it back. That was going to cause trouble under any monetary standard. that we adopted a common currency that encompassed several sovereign states at various stages of development.


The real problem is that the currency envelopes many independent states with their own sovereign prerogatives whilst the United States is a Federal Republic. The reason why the US works and the EU doesn't is because the former is a nation whilst the latter is a collection of separate nations. The sooner the EU achieves unity under one government the sooner you'll see stability in the currency.

Loki-L: Britain wants acts like they want to be a part of europe, but everytime they are asked for an actual commitment they suddenly get cold feet.

Since they don't actually want to participate in any European venture. One can't help the feeling that they might have only joined to sabotage the whole thing from within. Perhaps they should just quit the EU entirely and join the US instead.

They can't. They would be a burden there too. The British economy - save for the London Square Mile - doesn't produce shiat anymore. And everybody knows that financials, purely as a product, are in for a prolonged haircut, be it from a right-wing or a left-wing government. Stimulating raw industry or technology is far more difficult than stimulating finance (the first two require infrastructure and knowledge, while finance requires eh.. nothing much except for very friendly laws wrt. what borders on corruption), but if Britain doesn't want to import everything in the future, they're going to have to do *something* about this lack of autarky.

MikeyFuccon: The US is just as diverse a place as the euro zone, and it gets on just fine with a single currency.

Only because in the US there is a single tax system, with huge redistribution of wealth from rich areas to poor areas, that keeps the economies from diverging too far.

Having a single currency in the Eurozone without any redistribution of wealth to keep the economies from diverging has led us to where we are now - with Greece in effect having a massively overpriced currency with no way to correct it.

JK47: The sooner the EU achieves unity under one government the sooner you'll see stability in the currency.

Yeah, that will never happen. People have tried before (*cough* Hitler, Napoleon, Romans...)
Look what happened to Yugoslavia and how that worked out...

so, this is good for the pound, right?

Godamnlimey: Maybe if he farks a pig on live television the EU will straighten up .

Nobody on the opposite side of the pond is going to 'get' this.... not unless they've been torrenting Black Mirror.

And might I say, twisted TV over there mate.

England is more like the virgin telling other people how to fark.

In the end the EU might try the US solution to everything, tho: print more money and pretend everything is fine.

MikeyFuccon: We're talking about people so out of touch with reality that they think if Euroland disappeared Britain could just go back to trading with the empire (Canada, Australia, India), when in the real world half of Britain's exports go to the euro zone (the UK sells more to Ireland than to China). Scared? If your livelihood depends on the well-being of the British economy, you should be.

That's a pretty huge strawman. Even UKIP don't take that line.

What eurosceptics want is what they thought the EU (when it was the EEC) was going to be: an economic free trade area. Over time it's gradually grown into a European superstate, and is gradually moving towards ever greater political union, covering matters like external foreign policy, human rights and so forth.

Now, you might want that, but the fact is that a lot of people don't, and regret the fact that what they signed up for isn't this.

England is the annoying girl outside the party shouting at avaryone else to "Look at meeee!" when she tried to cartwheel outside on the lawn.

Only problem is, everyone else has done some pills and is farking upstairs.

farkeruk: moving towards ever greater political union, covering matters like external foreign policy, human rights and so forth.

Now, you might want that, but the fact is that a lot of people don't


Yeah who would want human rights, sensible foreign policy and a hope to compete in the greater world power struggle. We should have the opposite, no human rights, derestricted markets, silly foreign policy and no hope of retaining any power in the coming years and decades.

Sounds just like UKip...

Revmachine21: Godamnlimey: Maybe if he farks a pig on live television the EU will straighten up .

Nobody on the opposite side of the pond is going to 'get' this.... not unless they've been torrenting Black Mirror.

And might I say, twisted TV over there mate.

wait, that happened?

/takes note, torrent `black mirror`

dready zim: farkeruk: moving towards ever greater political union, covering matters like external foreign policy, human rights and so forth.

Now, you might want that, but the fact is that a lot of people don't


Yeah who would want human rights, sensible foreign policy and a hope to compete in the greater world power struggle. We should have the opposite, no human rights, derestricted markets, silly foreign policy and no hope of retaining any power in the coming years and decades.

Sounds just like UKip...

You think the UK did not have human rights before or without the EU?

The UK had Magna Carta centuries before most countries in Europe, or the US, even existed. England was the biggest world power to fight to end the slave trade, for one.

As for foreign policy, do you think any Americans would accept giving up their right to represent themselves in international affairs and have a Canadian or Mexican representative speak for them, and bind them to their decisions?

MikeyFuccon: No, Cameron's trying to pretend he's the good little girl of Little England's answer to Canada's Creditistes and the USA's Tea Party---the hard-line xenophobic Euro-skeptics who rejected the EU and all its works and all its allegedly empty promises (because they could not control it), are looking forward to seeing the Frogs and Krauts fall flat on their faces (and watching the new fascist governments of southern Europe show the natives how, I shouldn't wonder), and whose attitude towards the euro collapse is "bring it on, the Spaniels robbed us blind on our last hols anyway."

We're talking about people so out of touch with reality that they think if Euroland disappeared Britain could just go back to trading with the empire (Canada, Australia, India), when in the real world half of Britain's exports go to the euro zone (the UK sells more to Ireland than to China). Scared? If your livelihood depends on the well-being of the British economy, you should be.

Thing is, the Euroskeptics make up enough of the Conservative caucus that they could have easily brought down the government, removed him as leader, triggered an election that would effectively be a referendum on EU membership, and polls being what they are, had a decent chance of winning a mandate for withdrawal from the EU. Cameron didn't demand nearly as much as the hardliners wanted, just as much as he thought Germany would accept (and overrule France). When Germany balked, he had no choice but to walk out if he valued Britain's EU membership and his own job.

Even if the UK left the EU why would we not be able to trade with the EU? We traded with them before. America, Japan, Korea etc trade with them now.

Why, or even how, would the EU prevent the UK from trading with them if the UK left?

If You Want a Froggie for a Neighbour Vote Liberal or Labour

MikeyFuccon 2011-12-11 02:21:53 AM

Gunther: MikeyFuccon: We're talking about people so out of touch with reality

yeah, the Euroskeptics are the ones out of touch with reality, not the people who thought it'd be a great idea for incredibly diverse countries to adopt the same monetary policy.

Call me crazy, but a diverse economic area using the same currency was never really the problem. The US is just as diverse a place as the euro zone, and it gets on just fine with a single currency.

You're crazy. The US is not as diverse as the EU. Its extremely diverse for a single country, but its a single country, not a continent consisting of multiple countries

Gunther: MikeyFuccon: We're talking about people so out of touch with reality

yeah, the Euroskeptics are the ones out of touch with reality, not the people who thought it'd be a great idea for incredibly diverse countries to adopt the same monetary policy.

Shhh. I want his delusion un-dented when the EU finally collapses. More screaming that way.

farkeruk: MikeyFuccon: We're talking about people so out of touch with reality that they think if Euroland disappeared Britain could just go back to trading with the empire (Canada, Australia, India), when in the real world half of Britain's exports go to the euro zone (the UK sells more to Ireland than to China). Scared? If your livelihood depends on the well-being of the British economy, you should be.

That's a pretty huge strawman. Even UKIP don't take that line.

What eurosceptics want is what they thought the EU (when it was the EEC) was going to be: an economic free trade area. Over time it's gradually grown into a European superstate, and is gradually moving towards ever greater political union, covering matters like external foreign policy, human rights and so forth.

Now, you might want that, but the fact is that a lot of people don't, and regret the fact that what they signed up for isn't this.

Yeah, but trade goes so much better with a single currency.

MikeyFuccon: if the Little Englanders think they can escape the fallout when the EU blows up they are dreaming.

Do you believe that if Britain had agreed to sign up to a treaty change written by the Germans the EU would not have blown up? Would that have fixed Greece's debt? Or Italy's?

If not, even without being able to escape it, isn't it better to be struck by the fallout than be in the middle of the explosion?

Flint Ironstag: MikeyFuccon: No, Cameron's trying to pretend he's the good little girl of Little England's answer to Canada's Creditistes and the USA's Tea Party---the hard-line xenophobic Euro-skeptics who rejected the EU and all its works and all its allegedly empty promises (because they could not control it), are looking forward to seeing the Frogs and Krauts fall flat on their faces (and watching the new fascist governments of southern Europe show the natives how, I shouldn't wonder), and whose attitude towards the euro collapse is "bring it on, the Spaniels robbed us blind on our last hols anyway."

We're talking about people so out of touch with reality that they think if Euroland disappeared Britain could just go back to trading with the empire (Canada, Australia, India), when in the real world half of Britain's exports go to the euro zone (the UK sells more to Ireland than to China). Scared? If your livelihood depends on the well-being of the British economy, you should be.

Thing is, the Euroskeptics make up enough of the Conservative caucus that they could have easily brought down the government, removed him as leader, triggered an election that would effectively be a referendum on EU membership, and polls being what they are, had a decent chance of winning a mandate for withdrawal from the EU. Cameron didn't demand nearly as much as the hardliners wanted, just as much as he thought Germany would accept (and overrule France). When Germany balked, he had no choice but to walk out if he valued Britain's EU membership and his own job.

Even if the UK left the EU why would we not be able to trade with the EU? We traded with them before. America, Japan, Korea etc trade with them now.

Why, or even how, would the EU prevent the UK from trading with them if the UK left?

plus all the EU nationals working here would have to go home, which might go a long way to fixing the unemployment problem

thisone: Flint Ironstag: MikeyFuccon: No, Cameron's trying to pretend he's the good little girl of Little England's answer to Canada's Creditistes and the USA's Tea Party---the hard-line xenophobic Euro-skeptics who rejected the EU and all its works and all its allegedly empty promises (because they could not control it), are looking forward to seeing the Frogs and Krauts fall flat on their faces (and watching the new fascist governments of southern Europe show the natives how, I shouldn't wonder), and whose attitude towards the euro collapse is "bring it on, the Spaniels robbed us blind on our last hols anyway."

We're talking about people so out of touch with reality that they think if Euroland disappeared Britain could just go back to trading with the empire (Canada, Australia, India), when in the real world half of Britain's exports go to the euro zone (the UK sells more to Ireland than to China). Scared? If your livelihood depends on the well-being of the British economy, you should be.

Thing is, the Euroskeptics make up enough of the Conservative caucus that they could have easily brought down the government, removed him as leader, triggered an election that would effectively be a referendum on EU membership, and polls being what they are, had a decent chance of winning a mandate for withdrawal from the EU. Cameron didn't demand nearly as much as the hardliners wanted, just as much as he thought Germany would accept (and overrule France). When Germany balked, he had no choice but to walk out if he valued Britain's EU membership and his own job.

Even if the UK left the EU why would we not be able to trade with the EU? We traded with them before. America, Japan, Korea etc trade with them now.

Why, or even how, would the EU prevent the UK from trading with them if the UK left?

plus all the EU nationals working here would have to go home, which might go a long way to fixing the unemployment problem

And all the Brits working in Europe would have to go home. Funny how this sword cuts both ways.

farkeruk:What eurosceptics want is what they thought the EU (when it was the EEC) was going to be: an economic free trade area. Over time it's gradually grown into a European superstate, and is gradually moving towards ever greater political union, covering matters like external foreign policy, human rights and so forth.

I don't doubt that some people would like that, but what kind of moron would actually expect that post-Maastricht?

That idea was killed with UK consent in 1992 at the very latest. It is unfortunate that some people weren't told, but it was hardly a secret.

Flint Ironstag: England was the biggest world power to fight to end the slave trade, for one.

At the same time, the England was also the biggest financer of the slave trader, the largest builder of ships used in the trade, and had a large number of British sailors and officials involved in the slave trade. England was working both sides of the street... like a cheap whore in London pretending to be a lady by day and actually selling herself in the night.

Fissile: thisone: Flint Ironstag: MikeyFuccon: No, Cameron's trying to pretend he's the good little girl of Little England's answer to Canada's Creditistes and the USA's Tea Party---the hard-line xenophobic Euro-skeptics who rejected the EU and all its works and all its allegedly empty promises (because they could not control it), are looking forward to seeing the Frogs and Krauts fall flat on their faces (and watching the new fascist governments of southern Europe show the natives how, I shouldn't wonder), and whose attitude towards the euro collapse is "bring it on, the Spaniels robbed us blind on our last hols anyway."

We're talking about people so out of touch with reality that they think if Euroland disappeared Britain could just go back to trading with the empire (Canada, Australia, India), when in the real world half of Britain's exports go to the euro zone (the UK sells more to Ireland than to China). Scared? If your livelihood depends on the well-being of the British economy, you should be.

Thing is, the Euroskeptics make up enough of the Conservative caucus that they could have easily brought down the government, removed him as leader, triggered an election that would effectively be a referendum on EU membership, and polls being what they are, had a decent chance of winning a mandate for withdrawal from the EU. Cameron didn't demand nearly as much as the hardliners wanted, just as much as he thought Germany would accept (and overrule France). When Germany balked, he had no choice but to walk out if he valued Britain's EU membership and his own job.

Even if the UK left the EU why would we not be able to trade with the EU? We traded with them before. America, Japan, Korea etc trade with them now.

Why, or even how, would the EU prevent the UK from trading with them if the UK left?

plus all the EU nationals working here would have to go home, which might go a long way to fixing the unemployment problem

And all the Brits working in Europe would have to go home. Funny how this sword cuts both ways.

loldetector - on!

gblive: Flint Ironstag: England was the biggest world power to fight to end the slave trade, for one.

At the same time, the England was also the biggest financer of the slave trader, the largest builder of ships used in the trade, and had a large number of British sailors and officials involved in the slave trade. England was working both sides of the street... like a cheap whore in London pretending to be a lady by day and actually selling herself in the night.

Since the point was about human rights then England, the government, cannot tell its citizens they cannot do something that is legal in the rest of the world.

If the government tried to do that then that would be an infringement of their rights, wouldn't it? How can a government forbid its people from doing something legal?

The state worked to end the slave trade. The courts in England ruled that slavery was not allowed, and slave escaping from a ship docked in an English port was considered a free man the moment he set foot on English soil. Even on Royal Navy ships around the world if a slave got on board they would be protected and given passage back to England.

P. Yorck: farkeruk:What eurosceptics want is what they thought the EU (when it was the EEC) was going to be: an economic free trade area. Over time it's gradually grown into a European superstate, and is gradually moving towards ever greater political union, covering matters like external foreign policy, human rights and so forth.

I don't doubt that some people would like that, but what kind of moron would actually expect that post-Maastricht?

That idea was killed with UK consent in 1992 at the very latest. It is unfortunate that some people weren't told, but it was hardly a secret.

That is the point. The people of the UK were told the EEC was " a free trade area" and ever since the government has signed up for more and more integration while refusing to tell the people the truth or allow them a vote.