all their economic arguments are falsehoods. and the "liberal" media let them do it with impunity.

I once went to a titty bar that I discovered, to my horror, was apparently run by hardcore Republicans.

Seriously, framed photos of George W. Bush and Reagan just inside the front door. Even weirder collection of crap around. Hell if they didn't also have a bunch of cats (real, four-footed-meowing cats) running around. It looked more like an antique store or your crazy aunt's place.

What kind of not-crazy-old-crones would work in a place like that?

Yeah, that was the NEXT bad surprise.

Trance750: Companies and Corporations don't pay taxes. The tax is embedded into the final price of whatever good/service/commodity they are selling, and is passed down to the consumer

WRONG

The customer can say FARK YOU I TAKE BUSINESS ELSEWHERE when companies raise their price.

In the face of a tax raise, it may be better for a business to keep the price the same and take a hit in profits because the business lost from raising the price is more than the the extra money brought in from the higher price.

As a matter of fact thats how those 90% tax rates on the rich gave us the Golden age of capitalism

The idea behind those rates was not to take money from the rich. The idea was to get them to not do what they are doing now. Sitting on a pile of cash.

Make them hire, build and buy or fork it over to big gov.

Link (new window)

When talking about taxes the GOP always conflates personal income with business revenues. It's always been this way and it's utter bullchit.

Trance750: Weaver95: I think the GOP hates Obama so much that they'd rather destroy the country's economy than see him get re-elected.

Truer words have never been spoken. Sometimes I think they go around and manufacture their own crisis, just so they can find a way to blame it on Obama.

The Wall Street fiasco started under Bush, but who gets blamed?

Obama

Bush gives billions to the banks who squandered their finances, and who gets blamed?

Obama.

At war in three places halfway around the world and cash has been unaccounted for since 2002?

Obama.

Osama Bin Laden is found?

Bush.

Osama Bin Laden is shot dead on the spot?

Obama. But only if we can call this a mistake, by not bringing him in for trials.

Trials! That's right! Foreign combatants are being held in a base in Cuba!

Obama.

hubiestubert: Weaver95: hubiestubert: Democrats aren't above this, but at least they make noises towards something approaching a tiny bit of parity.

yeah, but right now the Democrats are, by comparison if nothing else, coming across as the more sane and reasonable party on tax reform. And THAT is beyond weird! Not that any of it matter - the GOP seems to have decided that 'blood for the blood god' and 'tax cuts for billionares' is how they're going to win back control in 2012.

...and that the Democrats are pushing for efficient spending? WTF is that about?

The world has gone mad, and apparently we're all taking CRAZY PILLS!

Well, I think what we're actually seeing is a winning conservative strategy. By claiming the center, then moving steadily rightward, they've pushed the entire conversation to the right. What we have now are essentially two parties--one conservative, one utra-conservative. When the other side comes to the negotiating table with what amounts to a less extreme version of your own position, you've already won.

Weaver95: For those of you who weren't in before the mass deletions...i'm still at a loss to understand the GOP policy on taxes. It seems to boil down to 'tax cuts for billionaires' and not much else.

Looks like you understand it just fine, then,

Bob16: As a matter of fact thats how those 90% tax rates on the rich gave us the Golden age of capitalism

The idea behind those rates was not to take money from the rich. The idea was to get them to not do what they are doing now. Sitting on a pile of cash.

Make them hire, build and buy or fork it over to big gov.

If you think about it, we built the greatest economic superpower the world has ever seen when the top tax rate was between 70 and 90 pct and union membership was around 30 pct.

But that doesn't fit the narrative of those who jocksniff the plutocracy, does it?

Finally someone points this out!

The money that is taxed are profits.

Weaver95: Ishidan: Weaver95: For those of you who weren't in before the mass deletions...i'm still at a loss to understand the GOP policy on taxes. It seems to boil down to 'tax cuts for billionaires' and not much else.

Looks like you understand it just fine, then,

snark aside, there HAS to be some reason why middle class GOP voters keep voting straight ticket Republican. so what is it that I'm missing?

"Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity."

Nice to see the usual suspects have done an excellent job completely derailing this thread to cover for the fact that they can't actually attack the substance of TFA.

Weaver95: snark aside, there HAS to be some reason why middle class GOP voters keep voting straight ticket Republican. so what is it that I'm missing?

Because our polarized political system at times becomes one where you support someone in opposition of their counterpart even if you don't actually support them. Do that for long enough and people get entrenched and stop having their own opinions sourced from understanding of the world around them and just go with the rhetoric.

MFAWG: Bob16: As a matter of fact thats how those 90% tax rates on the rich gave us the Golden age of capitalism

The idea behind those rates was not to take money from the rich. The idea was to get them to not do what they are doing now. Sitting on a pile of cash.

Make them hire, build and buy or fork it over to big gov.

If you think about it, we built the greatest economic superpower the world has ever seen when the top tax rate was between 70 and 90 pct and union membership was around 30 pct.

But that doesn't fit the narrative of those who jocksniff the plutocracy, does it?

And when we abandoned those methods in 1980 we began spiraling down to eventually reach our pitiful position which to republicans proves that Milton Friedman was a genius.

Trance750: Companies and Corporations don't pay taxes. The tax is embedded into the final price of whatever good/service/commodity they are selling, and is passed down to the consumer

This is patently ridiculous. If your cable bill went up 2000%, you'd simply stop service instead of pay it. You cannot simply pass on increased costs to the customer. Netflicks tried it, and they lost more than they gained!

Quoted business owner doesn't know what he is talking about. The profits he's plowing back in to capital improvements are taxed, and he receives a deduction over time for those improvements (normally).

A higher tax rate on income produced from an investment disincentivizes investment relative to an investment creating the same pretax income taxed at a lower rate. This matters where you have a choice in tax rates, like where you are considering international investments.

I wouldn't think it would matter for most small business owners. They can't typically move ops overseas. Just increasing the tax rate on all income they could earn means their rates of return on all investments are reduced proportionately.

MFAWG: If you think about it, we built the greatest economic superpower the world has ever seen when the top tax rate was between 70 and 90 pct and union membership was around 30 pct.

We also had a higher minimum wage ( in inflation adjusted dollars ).

Weaver95: there HAS to be some reason why middle class GOP voters keep voting straight ticket Republican

Jesus, fear, racism, homophobia, stupidity....just to name a few reasons.

The hell just happened?

CapnBlues: Nicholas Urfe: Quoted business owner doesn't know what he is talking about.

i'm sure you know more about his business than he does.

I'm a tax attorney. I know more about his taxes than he does.