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(NPR) Obvious NPR discovers that finding millionaire job creators who actually believe they're being overtaxed is a little like finding WMDs in Iraq   (npr.org) divider line 262
More: Obvious, WMDs, Iraq, NPR, John Thune, surtax, payroll taxes  
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10787 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Dec 2011 at 12:48 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



262 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2011-12-09 08:15:57 AM
This reminds me of a survey of CEOs a few years ago that showed even they think they are overpaid.
 
2011-12-09 09:27:04 AM
I heard that piece and it left me mostly wondering who is paying for the army of lobbyists working against this? How much those lobbyists cost and whether or not it might be cheaper to just pay their taxes rather than go to such extraordinary effort to avoid them...
 
2011-12-09 09:34:22 AM
What my business does is based on the contracts that it wins and the demand for its services.

It's almost as if the Republicans don't have the slightest farking clue of how businesses work.

Or, they're completely full of shiat.

But I'm sure that the derp brigade will be along shortly with a more reasonable explanation.
 
2011-12-09 09:42:35 AM
filipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com
 
2011-12-09 09:51:14 AM
Which means Republicans will continue to insist on their existence for years to come.
 
2011-12-09 09:54:35 AM
Eddie Adams from Torrance: What my business does is based on the contracts that it wins and the demand for its services.

It's almost as if the Republicans don't have the slightest farking clue of how businesses work.

Or, they're completely full of shiat..



This. I've always thought they were sincere when they claimed to represent the "business community" or even "rich people."

Not I'm not sure who is listening...Crazy Religious people are all they've got left.....
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2011-12-09 10:17:21 AM
So where do the anti tax lobbyists get their money?
 
2011-12-09 10:17:51 AM
Eddie Adams from Torrance: What my business does is based on the contracts that it wins and the demand for its services.

It's almost as if the Republicans don't have the slightest farking clue of how businesses work.

Or, they're completely full of shiat.

But I'm sure that the derp brigade will be along shortly with a more reasonable explanation.


Well, NPR is totally an arm of the liberal agenda, and they never produce honest pieces. These are probably not even real millionaires, just liberal plants.

/this will become reality in about 20 minutes
 
2011-12-09 10:28:35 AM
Of course they don't think they are overtaxed. That's what they pay politicians to think.
 
2011-12-09 10:34:30 AM
In their defense, they're pretty good in believing in things that don't exist.
 
2011-12-09 10:38:38 AM
I can't understand how these GOP politicians can claim that adding 2% taxes over a million dollars will be a disincentive to hiring.

I'm a small business owner who doesn't make over $1M per year, so my taxes would stay the same no matter what. But let's just say that after all my costs, all my payroll, all my investment, etc., I'm taking home $2M profit every year. Yeah me! If this went into effect, my taxes would go up $20,000. There is no farking way I'd fire someone because I'm taking home $20K less. That person was necessary for me to make my $2M in the first place. As the guy on the radio said, the tax rate has nothing to do with personnel decisions. If that person adds to the bottom line, you hire/retain them regardless of the tax rate.
 
2011-12-09 10:43:17 AM
Allow me to phrase that correctly : NPR unable to find millionaires willing to admit they are over taxed to NPR.
 
2011-12-09 11:00:12 AM
The Stealth Hippopotamus: Allow me to phrase that correctly : NPR unable to find millionaires willing to admit they are over taxed to NPR.

I liked the piece and found it basically accurate, but I have to agree with you. Nothing screams "self-selection bias" like the category "millionaires who are fans of NPR's Facebook page and were willing to speak up about it." This was not exactly a thorough sampling.
 
2011-12-09 11:01:02 AM
Any millionaire who claims they are not overtaxed should be stripped of their wealth and it should be given to the real job creators. That is the only way to stop socialism.
 
2011-12-09 11:31:12 AM
Well, if the people have more money, they are more likely to buy the products and services of the business owners, increasing the profits of the business owner. Demand increases, so they hare new employees to meet the increased demand. If the American people don't have money to spend, the Job Creator is not going to make any money OR hire any new employees. That's why you hire new people. You don't hire new people just because you have an extra million dollars lying around thanks to Bush tax cuts no matter how much Republicans want to sucker you into believe it to be the case.
 
2011-12-09 11:32:00 AM
Like this will in the slightest effect the GOP.
 
2011-12-09 11:32:12 AM
Mike_LowELL: Any millionaire who claims they are not overtaxed should be stripped of their wealth and it should be given to the real job creators. That is the only way to stop socialism.

That sounds suspiciously wealth redistribution. Socialism, if you will. Ironic?
 
2011-12-09 11:34:26 AM
Three Crooked Squirrels: I can't understand how these GOP politicians can claim that adding 2% taxes over a million dollars will be a disincentive to hiring.

I'm a small business owner who doesn't make over $1M per year, so my taxes would stay the same no matter what. But let's just say that after all my costs, all my payroll, all my investment, etc., I'm taking home $2M profit every year. Yeah me! If this went into effect, my taxes would go up $20,000. There is no farking way I'd fire someone because I'm taking home $20K less. That person was necessary for me to make my $2M in the first place. As the guy on the radio said, the tax rate has nothing to do with personnel decisions. If that person adds to the bottom line, you hire/retain them regardless of the tax rate.


They are going to tax you based on the number of people you employ.
 
2011-12-09 11:41:54 AM
I heard this on my way to work this morning and was hoping it would get submitted and greenlit.

Good job subby and modmins.
 
2011-12-09 11:45:30 AM
IgG4: I heard that piece and it left me mostly wondering who is paying for the army of lobbyists working against this? How much those lobbyists cost and whether or not it might be cheaper to just pay their taxes rather than go to such extraordinary effort to avoid them...

latimesblogs.latimes.com

Its really just a handfull of assholes like this guy.
 
2011-12-09 11:48:39 AM
Actually, NPR did find two millionaire job creators to talk to them, and they said that when they hire people, their personal marginal tax rate over $1 million is not a consideration.
 
2011-12-09 11:49:30 AM
djkutch: Mike_LowELL: Any millionaire who claims they are not overtaxed should be stripped of their wealth and it should be given to the real job creators. That is the only way to stop socialism.

That sounds suspiciously wealth redistribution. Socialism, if you will. Ironic?


I don't know how anyone could read what I said and claim I support wealth redistribution. Then again, absolute mastery of Baudrillard, Nietzsche, and Kant is required to scratch the surface of my posts, so I can understand why someone would come to an incorrect conclusion.
 
2011-12-09 11:53:31 AM
media.npr.org

Please, stop with the halo or crown thing. It sucks and is not creative at all.

/actually, one could make a case out of it being destructive
 
2011-12-09 12:04:35 PM
CSB:

Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction. They were chemical based mortar rounds.

They were from the Iraq-Iran war era. From what we could tell it looked like they were buried there and just forgotten. But the insurgents did get a hold of a few (they had no idea that they were chemical weapons) of them and turned one into an IED.

There were no roaming chemical labs. There were no nuclear missiles. All they had were shiatty mortar rounds that were 20 years old.

Why yes I have a citation Link (new window)
 
2011-12-09 12:20:10 PM
We wanted to talk to business owners who would be affected. So, NPR requested help from numerous Republican congressional offices, including House and Senate leadership. They were unable to produce a single millionaire job creator for us to interview.


So we went to the business groups that have been lobbying against the surtax. Again, three days after putting in a request, none of them was able to find someone for us to talk to.



The GOP is full of shiat? That's truly shocking...
 
2011-12-09 12:45:56 PM
Mike_LowELL: I don't know how anyone could read what I said and claim I support wealth redistribution. Then again, absolute mastery of Baudrillard, Nietzsche, and Kant is required to scratch the surface of my posts, so I can understand why someone would come to an incorrect conclusion.

Problem is, you mean Bob Baudrillard, Jim Nietsfche and Fred Kant.
 
2011-12-09 12:49:57 PM
Yes, that is correct because 95% of people in the top bracket are not millionaire job creators.
 
2011-12-09 12:52:43 PM
But Gretchen Carlson told me job creators are small businesses that hire maybe 2-3 people.
 
2011-12-09 12:54:49 PM
1) can we please stop using the nonsensical term "job creators?"

2) You could probably ask every American whether they think they're not being taxed enough, and I guarantee almost off them would say no. Even the ones who don't pay any taxes.
 
2011-12-09 12:54:57 PM
Was this a methodical experiment through a survey? No. Although I suspect a half-dozen economics masters students are trying to do exactly that.

Will the Teabagger-GOP ever even attempt to do something similar? fark no. That kind of bullshiat is for sissies who think.
 
2011-12-09 12:55:59 PM
The bulk of GOP voters are not rich people, but poor people who think they'll be rich someday. There are certainly some greedy Republican billionaires, but there aren't enough of them to win elections without enlisting non-rich support.
 
2011-12-09 12:56:34 PM
The 'job creator' is a magical creature that if you add to their already massive wealth, they cause jobs to be created out of thin air.
 
2011-12-09 12:56:45 PM
I don't think asking people on Facebook qualifies as a scientific analysis.
 
2011-12-09 12:57:25 PM
The area in the south and the west and the north and east that NPR investigates is substantial. It happens not to be the area where millionaire GOP job creators are dispersed. We know where they are. They're in the area around Washington DC, Wichita, and Los Angeles, and east, west, south and north somewhat.
 
2011-12-09 12:58:22 PM
Chummer45: 1) can we please stop using the nonsensical term "job creators?"

2) You could probably ask every American whether they think they're not being taxed enough, and I guarantee almost off them would say no. Even the ones who don't pay any taxes.


I for one am more than confident that everyone is taxed more than enough. I love the way everyone has filled up on coolaid that they completely ignore the fact that the real problem is spending.
 
2011-12-09 12:59:35 PM
I don't disagree with the premise; we should raise taxes on the wealthy and lower taxes aren't going to cause them to hire people if the demand for their products doesn't exist.

However this study basically proved the NPRs facebook friends generally agree with NPR. That might make for good headlines but isn't a very scientific study.
 
2011-12-09 12:59:42 PM
Rich Cream: [media.npr.org image 462x346]

Please, stop with the halo or crown thing. It sucks and is not creative at all.

/actually, one could make a case out of it being destructive


Thune is a large sack of shiat. A really large one. Anything that comes out of his mouth is suspect.
 
2011-12-09 12:59:54 PM
You must approach the "job creator" with caution, as they are skittish and frightened by loud noises and sudden movements. Slowly gain their trust by subsidizing them with tax cuts and multi million dollar bonuses.
 
2011-12-09 01:00:10 PM
Shazam999: I don't think asking people on Facebook qualifies as a scientific analysis.

As opposed to republicans who make it up in their head that taxes are costing jobs?
 
2011-12-09 01:00:20 PM
"If my taxes go up, I have slightly less disposable income, yes," said Burger, co-owner of CSS International Holdings, a global infrastructure contractor. "But that has nothing to do with what my business does. What my business does is based on the contracts that it wins and the demand for its services."


But isn't it possible that your firm will get fewer contracts if every other millionaire has less disposable income? Not that it must be so, but possible at least.

Just because you're rich and successful does not mean your an expert in economics.
 
2011-12-09 01:00:26 PM
I think they buried the lede here.

"Cutting taxes promotes hiring" is a fig leaf. If the GOP was really made up of businessmen, they'd know how big a lie that is.

Thune said it, and one of the interviewed CEOs said it - "If you cut my taxes, the only thing that goes up is my AGI for the year."

The GOP is not interested in hiring, or in demand, or in anything else. The slavish devotion to cutting taxes on the wealthy (even promoting them to "job creator" status, above even "richer than Solomon with a dividend check") is so that anyone on the receiving end of the cut pays less. Meaning them.

Yup - greed and selfishness. It's as simple as that. Two great tastes that go great together, since the dawn of time. Now available in Political Parties.
 
2011-12-09 01:00:53 PM
cman: CSB:

Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction. They were chemical based mortar rounds.

They were from the Iraq-Iran war era. From what we could tell it looked like they were buried there and just forgotten. But the insurgents did get a hold of a few (they had no idea that they were chemical weapons) of them and turned one into an IED.

There were no roaming chemical labs. There were no nuclear missiles. All they had were shiatty mortar rounds that were 20 years old.

Why yes I have a citation Link (new window)


Those weren't the WMD they were looking for:

But Kay, the former chief U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq, said the discovery does not provide evidence that Saddam was secretly producing weapons of mass destruction after the Gulf War, as alleged by the Bush administration to justify the war that removed him from power.
 
2011-12-09 01:01:23 PM
I mean, isn't it possible that higher taxes would mean fewer contracts to go around?
 
2011-12-09 01:01:28 PM
About as many who didn't take every deduction available even though they really didn't need the money?
 
2011-12-09 01:01:44 PM
"It's just intuitive that, you know, if you're somebody who's in business and you get hit with a tax increase, it's going to be that much harder, I think, to make investments that are going to lead to job creation," says Thune.

Senator John Thune: Dumb as a rock, asshole liar, or both?

The marginal income tax rate on a business owner has jack all to do with their hiring practices. Some of the GOP leaders know that and are simply lying on behalf of their wealthy friends. They don't give a flying fark about the country and have no business being anyways near public office. Some GOP leaders at this point might actually be stupid enough to believe what they're saying. They're far too stupid to be anyways near public office.

Once again the GOP has voted to raise taxes on everyone to avoid raising taxes on millionaires.

It's what they do.
 
2011-12-09 01:02:10 PM
cman: CSB:

Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction. They were chemical based mortar rounds.

They were from the Iraq-Iran war era. From what we could tell it looked like they were buried there and just forgotten. But the insurgents did get a hold of a few (they had no idea that they were chemical weapons) of them and turned one into an IED.

There were no roaming chemical labs. There were no nuclear missiles. All they had were shiatty mortar rounds that were 20 years old.

Why yes I have a citation Link (new window)


There's tons of crap leftover from WWII that make those mortar shells look like water balloons. There's a whole island off of Scotland and a quarantined pier in Philadelphia both contaminated with anthrax. In Europe alone, they still have hills of munitions that date back to WWI.

Considering that we've lost moon rocks, we've probably got some nukes sitting on a shelf somewhere and nobody knows what they are.
 
2011-12-09 01:02:33 PM
Three Crooked Squirrels: I can't understand how these GOP politicians can claim that adding 2% taxes over a million dollars will be a disincentive to hiring.

I'm a small business owner who doesn't make over $1M per year, so my taxes would stay the same no matter what. But let's just say that after all my costs, all my payroll, all my investment, etc., I'm taking home $2M profit every year. Yeah me! If this went into effect, my taxes would go up $20,000. There is no farking way I'd fire someone because I'm taking home $20K less. That person was necessary for me to make my $2M in the first place. As the guy on the radio said, the tax rate has nothing to do with personnel decisions. If that person adds to the bottom line, you hire/retain them regardless of the tax rate.


Know how we can tell the first sentence of your second paragraph is true?
Right, you still talk like a human being.
 
2011-12-09 01:03:28 PM
cameroncrazy1984: Problem is, you mean Bob Baudrillard, Jim Nietsfche and Fred Kant.

Quality post.
 
2011-12-09 01:03:36 PM
Humean_Nature: I liked the piece and found it basically accurate, but I have to agree with you. Nothing screams "self-selection bias" like the category "millionaires who are fans of NPR's Facebook page and were willing to speak up about it." This was not exactly a thorough sampling.

They admitted as much in the piece, and they didn't go the facebook route until after they asked GOP lawmakers and business organizations to provide them with a reference, to no avail.
 
2011-12-09 01:03:38 PM
The GOP is only interested in cornering the rich corporate vote and donations, they don't give a crap about the economy or the American worker.
 
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