If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(WTSP)   Perhaps the anti-drinking PSA with the drunk girl pulling her panties down wasn't such a great idea   (wtsp.com) divider line 290
    More: Dumbass, PSA, pennsylvania liquor control board, jezebel, alcohol abuses, index fingers, Stacey Witalec, alcohol poisoning  
•       •       •

24639 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Dec 2011 at 10:58 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



290 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all
 
2011-12-09 11:58:17 AM

Oh_Enough_Already: Drunk woman wakes up naked next to 300 pound man: "Yikes, that was a mistake. If I say I was raped and ruin this guy's life I won't feel like such an idiot."


...Aaaand this is why I'm afraid to take home a girl from a party/bar, even if she's doesn't seem the least bit drunk.

Well, that and I live in my parents' basement and have no money to go to parties/bars.
 
2011-12-09 11:58:46 AM

nibls66: What the ad should have looked like...
[i582.photobucket.com image 250x423]


isn't that the Appetite for Destruction album art??

/used to have the litttle patch too
//yay record players...
 
2011-12-09 11:59:06 AM

pute kisses like a man: raggtopp: 'NOT getting black out drunk' is to 'preventing rape' as
'wearing your seatbelt' is to 'surviving a car accident'

I don't like this analogy. The car accident is likely partially the driver's fault, or it is at least an accident in which the seat belt is a safety measure. Rape is not the victim's fault. Sobriety is not a safety measure against rape, it is a coincidence.


You don't like the analogy...so you put additional details in that were not there before to change the meaning of it...and then say it's wrong? Am I correct in what you just did?

Do you blame the victim for being robbed at gun point because they were walking around late at night?

English isn't your first language is it? Of course the person walking around late at night is PARTIALLY to blame for being robbed. That is almost exactly what I said earlier. I'm not absolving the robber of guilt, that's just how you want to restate what I said so you can say I'm wrong.

The victim and the victimizer can BOTH share blame....they are NOT mutually exclusive...in fact they rarely are.
 
2011-12-09 12:01:20 PM

Theaetetus: LasersHurt: Theaetetus: LasersHurt: Theaetetus: Even if you think the victim's partially to blame, that's irrelevant, because it doesn't reduce the liability of the rapist. So why bring up your douchey holier-than-thou "she's partly to blame" opinion, unless you have an ulterior motive, such as discouraging women from going out in public and participating in society?

Jesus dude, slow your roll a little. That's way too reactionary.

But not wrong.

Yes. Yes it is wrong. Accusing him of "discouraging women from going out in public" because he suggested getting wasted can lead you to bad situations is ridiculous and inappropriate.

Not really. It's one of the more common ulterior motives for that type of rhetoric. It's also why it tends to get parroted by social conservatives.


Debra?
 
2011-12-09 12:01:51 PM
Girl has drinks, has sex, the law says "she couldn't consent, is not accountable," is now a "rape victim."

Same girl has drinks, drives a car, kills three people, the law says "you bet your ass you're accountable, welcome to prison."

Does not compute.
 
2011-12-09 12:02:05 PM
Don't tell me I can't play in traffic just because I may get hit by a drunk driver.
Don't tell me I can't run naked through the woods because I may get eaten by a bear.
Why are you blaming the victim and trying to restrict my participation in society? Blame the drunk drivers and the bears, not me!
/kidding, I know its a bad analogy
//or do I?
 
2011-12-09 12:02:09 PM

Knara: pute kisses like a man: Do you blame the victim for being robbed at gun point because they were walking around late at night?

Depends on where they're walking. If you're walking around alone late at night in a known sketchy neighborhood, yeah, guess what, you're partially to blame because you performed an action that you knew was risky.

It doesn't excuse the robber, but there's a thing called "using your head" which can prevent the likelihood of situation from ever happening in the first place.

In a magic, innocent world perhaps we could just go about our lives and never have to think about how our own actions can affect our safety. That world has never existed, however.

So, if you don't want to get raped, you can totally reduce the likelihood of that happening by not exposing yourself to situations where the likelihood of being raped is significantly increased. Is that totally morally correct in a philosophical way? Probably not. Is it practical? Yup.


well, I live in New Orleans. There are few, if any, streets that are not risky streets to walk down. whether that risk be rape or robbery (criminals nowadays are mobile, they can attack you in the ghetto just as easily as in the fancy commercial district -- and, from the crime reports, time of day is not a big factor). You are correct. By leaving my home, I am exposing myself to some increased level of risk.

But, I will not take blame for being attacked. I have to live a life, risk is a part of living that life. Not to mention, I'm drunk all the time while on the streets. No level of drunkenness will create in me the notion that it was my fault for being attacked, and no part of the city or time of day will put me at any more blame.

levels of risk are not levels of blame. Obviously, I'm not going to hang out in central city (an historically more violent part of town) and think that my risk level is identical to what it is be in the tourist and cop laden french quarter. but, whether or not I am attacked, it was not my fault.

driving 70 mph on the highway is more dangerous than driving 65 mph. changes in risk do not change culpability, unless you cross the tipping point from increased risk to bona fide negligence or recklessness.

being the victim of a crime is not negligence, it's misfortune.
 
2011-12-09 12:02:21 PM

BeesNuts: You are a freak for not being affected by booze. Are you a robot? :p


You sound like my mom. :P

Sorry. I should have said not affected by the desire for booze.
 
2011-12-09 12:03:34 PM

Aidan: BeesNuts: You are a freak for not being affected by booze. Are you a robot? :p

You sound like my mom. :P

Sorry. I should have said not affected by the desire for booze.


weed smoker eh?
 
2011-12-09 12:06:01 PM

Andrew Wiggin: Aidan: BeesNuts: You are a freak for not being affected by booze. Are you a robot? :p

You sound like my mom. :P

Sorry. I should have said not affected by the desire for booze.

weed smoker eh?


Coke and video games. :\ And no, I don't mean cocaine. Chances of me getting raped = 0.1%. Chances of me going somewhere interesting = 0.
 
2011-12-09 12:08:31 PM
Oh_Enough_Already 2011-12-09 12:01:51 PM

Girl has drinks, has sex, the law says "she couldn't consent, is not accountable," is now a "rape victim."

Same girl has drinks, drives a car, kills three people, the law says "you bet your ass you're accountable, welcome to prison."

Does not compute.




Excellent point.
It will probably be ridiculed or else outright ignored here.
 
2011-12-09 12:09:06 PM

pute kisses like a man: But, I will not take blame for being attacked. I have to live a life, risk is a part of living that life.


If you are taking that risk in the first place....then you MUST also accept part of the 'blame' or 'guilt' for anything that happens to you. THAT'S WHAT TAKING A RISK MEANS....if you KNOW something bad could happen to you by doing something that means YOU are actively deciding to put yourself in harms way. That puts SOME blame on you no matter what. The fact that you accept your risks means you're actually ACCEPT that blame. There is a great deal of respect in that by the way...accepting the risk and the blame that comes with it. It's what a lot of people can't do or are afraid to.

being the victim of a crime is not negligence, it's misfortune.

But it can be...it REALLY can. You can prevent yourself from being a victim by doing many things. If you KNEW you could have done one of those things that would have prevented a crime to you, then you DO share some blame for the end result.
 
2011-12-09 12:09:38 PM

Aidan: Chances of me getting raped = 0.1%


i guess you don't play the same video games i do.
 
2011-12-09 12:10:47 PM

Andrew Wiggin: Aidan: Chances of me getting raped = 0.1%

i guess you don't play the same video games i do.


Damn straight I don't. :P
 
2011-12-09 12:12:11 PM

pute kisses like a man: Obviously, I'm not going to hang out in central city (an historically more violent part of town) and think that my risk level is identical to what it is be in the tourist and cop laden french quarter. but, whether or not I am attacked, it was not my fault.


But see, this is where the difference is.

I've known my share of party girls and what not. They will enter into situations with reckless abandon on a regular basis with no thought of the risk, nor any thought of directing blame at a third party for morning after regrets.

This is the difference.

To say that there's no difference between risky behavior and mindful behavior is not blaming the victim. That mode of thought is intellectually dishonest.

There's no one in any of these conversations that excuses the perps. Yet some parties always attempt to turn the flow of conversation as if that were a foregone conclusion. It's pretty interesting.
 
2011-12-09 12:12:42 PM

Theaetetus: Honest Bender: Critics said it was another example of suggesting victims are to blame for rape.

Did you ever stop and consider that, in some cases, the victim might be partially to blame for getting herself into that kind of situation to begin with?

Did you ever stop and consider that, while we may think the victim is partially to blame if their car gets stolen in a bad part of town, or if they get beat up mouthing off in a bar, or if they get mugged while texting on their iPhone, we don't suggest that any of these reduce the criminal liability of the perpetrator. We also don't make victims of theft, assault, or robbery pay for their own investigations. We also don't bring up past instances when they've driven a car or been in that part of town to suggest they wanted it. We also don't suggest they liked it, or just had regrets the next morning about getting robbed.

Even if you think the victim's partially to blame, that's irrelevant, because it doesn't reduce the liability of the rapist. So why bring up your douchey holier-than-thou "she's partly to blame" opinion, unless you have an ulterior motive, such as discouraging women from going out in public and participating in society?

Actually, dude, it's very relevant, AS THE AD SUGGESTS. Don't drink so much that this MAY happen to you. The point of the ad is to PREVENT. So, yes, the partial blame still stands, even if to EDUMACATE women to avoid this kind of scenario. Another ad could be geared toward her friends. IF your friend is yay shiat-faced, don't let her out of your sights... So take you name calling somewhere else.

 
2011-12-09 12:14:09 PM

angry_scientist: nibls66: What the ad should have looked like...
[i582.photobucket.com image 250x423]

isn't that the Appetite for Destruction album art??

/used to have the litttle patch too
//yay record players...


Good knowledge. I was probably 13 years old when I saw that picture... back when that's the only porn a 13 year old could find! A 13 year old these days could probably find a Japanese live action porn re-creation of that image!!
 
2011-12-09 12:15:26 PM
brightcove.vo.llnwd.net
 
2011-12-09 12:15:48 PM
I'm not a memeber of the "girls sometimes put themselves in that position" rape camp (hehe, "rape camp"), but I have seen girls who were drunk and completely willing to get down with a drunk guy then the next morning while they're feeling a little whorish, they say "Oh, I would have never done that sober. I was raped". What's a guy to do then? He's drunk, she's drunk, they both consent while drunk, she regrets it the next morning, she blames guy. If girls can't be held responsible for making bad decisions while drunk, then we have to excuse D.U.I. drivers for doing the same (I'm not advocating that, just using an analogy).
 
2011-12-09 12:16:15 PM
All of you victim-blaming assholes can go f*ck yourself. You're f*cking disgusting.
 
2011-12-09 12:17:43 PM

That coward David Lopan: , she regrets it the next morning, she blames guy. If girls can't be held responsible for making bad decisions while drunk, then we have to excuse D.U.I. drivers for doing the same (I'm not advocating that, just using an analogy).


So....the guy blames HER for rape because they were both drunk? Cites 807318923174798 previous cases of women doing the exact same thing.

/challenge accepted?
 
2011-12-09 12:18:15 PM

That coward David Lopan: He's drunk, she's drunk, they both consent while drunk,


Neither can consent while drunk so they raped each other, obviously.

That coward David Lopan: If girls can't be held responsible for making bad decisions while drunk, then we have to excuse D.U.I. drivers for doing the same (I'm not advocating that, just using an analogy).


That is a contradiction in the law, correct.

The usual DUI comparison comeback is "well they should have planned ahead of time to not drive drunk". Somehow "they should have planned ahead of time to not have sex while drunk" never comes into the equation.
 
2011-12-09 12:18:43 PM

MBK: Wow, a lot of dumb farks here in this thread.

I don't agree that the PSA puts blame on the victim, but a lot of dumb people in this thread seem to think every rape is somehow partly the victim's fault.

It is never the victim's fault. I don't care if they are wearing a mini skirt and a shirt that says "fark me" and are drunk off their ass, that is no excuse for rape.

Just because a girl is too drunk to say no, it still doesn't mean she said yes.


Two scenarios: I have a party and get shiatfaced, I'm so drunk and feeling good, I tell the partygoers they can have my TV, stereo, drive my car which they subsequently crash, and I go ahead and take everyone out for the afterparty at the bar and put it on my credit card.

I wake up the next day and say to myself, "Fark, I shouldn't have done that. I'm calling the police and reporting everyone for theft, GTA/hit and run, and initiating a chargeback on my credit card for the $1000 I spent at the club." And I would be arrested for fraud and filing a false report.

Scenario 2: I am a woman who has a party and gets shiatfaced. I get so drunk that I sleep with someone I really didn't want to have sex with.

I wake up the next day and say to myself, "I did not want to have sex with that man. I'll call the police and tell them that I didn't want to have sex with that man and I know we did when I was drunk, so therefore I was raped!" And I'll be hailed by the feminazis for standing up to the rapist pig male.

If a woman gets drunk and regrets having sex the next day, it's rape. And everyone is perfectly fine with that. It is ENTIRELY the woman's fault (and I'm not trolling) for farking someone she didn't want to, then crying rape. How we say this is OK I have no idea.
 
2011-12-09 12:19:35 PM

MBK: Savoir-Faire: Generally people don't make false accusations about being robbed that can destroy another person's life.

This happens all the time. I had a friend almost have his career destroyed over a false rape accusation, and this guy has only slept with two women in his whole life (Has been married for 10 years now). He gave a girl a ride home from a concert and never even kissed her. The next morning, he picks up his phone and she says, "WHY DID YOU RAPE ME?!". Police involved, charges filed, etc. etc.

It took 9 months for them to finally figure out she had been institutionalized on 3 separate occasions and had gone off her meds. Would have been nice for the prosecutor to check that shiat out in the first place.

See also Crystal Mangum and the Duke LaCrosse Team. Sure, they were douches, but they got railroaded for nothing.

And for every story like this, how many stories are there of rape victims being intimidated and not coming forward?

How many rape victims have their sex lives put on full display with the idea of "look, she was a whore, what is the harm in one extra fark?"

How many rape victims are blame for having too much of a good time? So guess what, for every "oh, she was just ruining his life" story, I'm willing to be there are 10x as much more stories of rape victims having their lives ruined by rape.

But hey, your story should give you reason to believe every woman who is raped is a lying whore who just wants money and to ruin someone's life.


Yeah, because I know that my one story means exactly what you just said. Extrapolate your own thoughts, retard. I'm just saying there's two sides to this coin, and gave two example as to why there needs to be fair investigations on both sides.

By the way, I believe violent rapists should get the death penalty. I can think of few crimes that are worse.
 
2011-12-09 12:20:09 PM
The difficulty with rape is that it is considered one of the most psychologically traumatizing crimes, but almost never leaves any evidence. If someone steals your stuff, you can show that the stuff is missing. If someone assaults you, you can show the physical injury where you were assaulted. The only hard evidence of rape is usually in the form of damage to the genitals/thighs, and even that isn't necessarily always present. Additionally, rape almost never takes place in front of witnesses, due to its nature.

Because the crime of rape is so bad, we are especially compelled to convict rapists. To accomplish this, many allowances are made that aren't made for other crimes. In many cases, it is simply the claim of the woman against the claim of the man. Defense attorneys often introduce information to impugn the character of the alleged victim to show that it is possible s/he is lying.

Generally, our courts operate on the idea that a person should not be convicted of any crime unless there is absolute proof that the crime was perpetrated by the accused. We make exceptions for this do to the special nature of rape. As such, the only method of defense is to disparage the character of the victim, since the jury is often deciding only on the good faith that the victim is telling the truth

Does this make coming forward against rape very hard? yes.
Does that suck? yes.

The problem is this, if we didn't take rape victims at their word, we'd pretty much never convict any rapists ever, so we take rape victims at their word. The only recourse of the accused is to show that they shouldn't be taken at their word.

/at their word
//Rape is essentially a very specific form of assault. I wonder if it is so much more traumatizing because of our creepily puritanical views about sexuality.
 
2011-12-09 12:20:10 PM
When I was a college freshman at orientation, the Dean of Students exhorted young women who had been the victims of rape while drunk to come to the police. She told them that they wouldn't be punished, because they "had already been punished enough."

Damn I hated that woman. I can't tell you the number of times I saw guys try to ply girls with booze in order to screw them. Yes, the women were stupid, but being stupid doesn't mean you should be a victim of a violent crime. If I walk down a dark street in a dangerous area at night and get my shiat stolen, that's one thing, but even doing so doesn't permit someone to beat/knife/shoot me.

I also would like to point out that men get raped all of the time; not as often as women, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Not all of the perpetrators are gay, too; it's one of the chief arguments that rape is a crime of violence and power, not sex. I sure as fark don't want to get raped.
 
2011-12-09 12:24:18 PM
Any man who got drunk and woke up next to a 300 pound hosebeast who went to the cop shop or rape crisis center to report being "raped" the next morning would be laughed out of either facility.

For many women, doing just this is the psychological equivalent of the "morning after pill."

Like myriad other sex crime laws that, ostensibly, were written to protect all citizens equally, charges like this are all but exclusively brought against men and are simply a way for women to cleanse themselves of personal accountability and the guilt/shame they might feel after drunkenly choosing a less than stellar sexual partner.

Whether sober or drunk, women need to own their choices.
 
2011-12-09 12:25:20 PM
evilzard 2011-12-09 12:16:15 PM

All of you victim-blaming assholes can go f*ck yourself. You're f*cking disgusting.



You sound like a chick
 
2011-12-09 12:27:03 PM
Just because a girl is too drunk to say no, it still doesn't mean she said yes.

Irrelevant to me... it's an effective ad. Period.

It's visually arresting, the headline works well with the image, it speaks to its target audience, it communicates its message powerfully, and it leads the reader to draw its intended conclusion: "Bad things tend to happen when you drink to excess; don't let this happen to you."
 
2011-12-09 12:29:53 PM

Theaetetus: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Problem is, sometimes rape is just a horny frat-douche screwing his too-drunk-to-protest date (hence the term "date rape"). In those cases, alcohol consumption IS to blame.

Actually, in research of serial rapists, they tend to intentionally get their dates too drunk to protest, and know exactly what they're doing. Look up "predator theory". The "horny frat douche" who is likewise drunk is primarily a myth.


Wait, so in research of SERIAL rapists, there's no discussion regarding "horny frat douche"? No way! Ric, is that you?
 
2011-12-09 12:32:15 PM

doubled99: evilzard 2011-12-09 12:16:15 PM

All of you victim-blaming assholes can go f*ck yourself. You're f*cking disgusting.


You sound like a chick


indeed she does

Question for all those that say the victim cannot be held accountable for her actions:
How many nuns are getting raped on sunday afternoon at church?
 
2011-12-09 12:32:52 PM

BeesNuts: Theaetetus: LasersHurt: I mean clearly robbers are the wrong ones in a robbery - but we still lock our doors and don't go down alleys at night.

But when someone's house is robbed, we don't suggest they were asking for it, or really gave away their stuff and then had regrets the next day. If caught, the robber doesn't try to use consent as a defense.

If I get punched in the face because I went up to the meanest looking dude in a bar and spat in his drink, we call it 'beer muscles', not assault. It *is* assault on meanest dude's part, but making mistakes with bigger consequences than normal is part and parcel to partying too hard. Of course, that's not to say that date-rape isn't a serious issue, to be taken seriously. But this 'drunk women are incapable of consent' thing doesn't pass the smell test for me. Blacked out women? Duh. Incapable of forming a coherent sentence? Let her sleep it off. Draping herself all over everything with a pulse and talking about personal shiat to everyone who will listen while pouring drinks for every guy in the room? Where's the line?


Women seem to be the only ones who can call rape in a case of buyer's remorse. I see what you mean, though. She might be drunk, but that doesn't mean that she wouldn't f*ck you sober. People try to draw lines in subjective sand about it.
 
2011-12-09 12:32:55 PM

FrylockMastershake: How many nuns are getting raped on sunday afternoon at church?


none.
 
2011-12-09 12:34:43 PM

Secret Polish Boyfriend: When I was a college freshman at orientation, the Dean of Students exhorted young women who had been the victims of rape while drunk to come to the police. She told them that they wouldn't be punished, because they "had already been punished enough."

Damn I hated that woman. I can't tell you the number of times I saw guys try to ply girls with booze in order to screw them. Yes, the women were stupid, but being stupid doesn't mean you should be a victim of a violent crime. If I walk down a dark street in a dangerous area at night and get my shiat stolen, that's one thing, but even doing so doesn't permit someone to beat/knife/shoot me.

I also would like to point out that men get raped all of the time; not as often as women, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Not all of the perpetrators are gay, too; it's one of the chief arguments that rape is a crime of violence and power, not sex. I sure as fark don't want to get raped.


I wonder how often a woman tries to force herself on a man threatening to cry 'rape' if she's pushed away.
 
2011-12-09 12:38:25 PM
Come on girls, don't be stupid. Sure, theives are the only ones responsible for thefts, and rapists are the only ones responsible for rape, but do you think, "hey, lets walk around piss drunk while showing off how much money we have?" NO. Because you would wake up with no money, and it would be extremely hard to figure out who stole it.

Here's an idea, if you really intend to keep your panties on all night no matter what, hire yourself a body guard when you feel the need to dress up all fancy and get wasted.

Sad fact is, here on earth, you can't do whatever you want all the time without the meanies getting you. Doesn't make them less mean, it just makes it necessary for you to watch out for your own well being.
 
2011-12-09 12:38:48 PM
Holy cripes. The idea is urging women to keep enough control of their faculties so they can assess risk and remove/defend themselves if need be. If I get so wasted that I can't defend myself from an attacker and decide walking through the ghetto with my dick out is a great idea then get shot by some thugs do I deserve it? No. Is it my fault? Not really. Could I have avoided it? Hell yeah. If I had not gotten sh*ttanked in the first place I would have realized how bad of an idea it was and not even wandered into the ghetto.

I had an ex who would black out and turn into a total over the top flirt. She would feel mortified at her behavior the next day. I kept telling her she should be careful because someone might decide to attack her and she pulled the whole "I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO CHANGE MY BEHAVIOR BECAUSE OF RAPISTS". To which I obviously agree but that isn't gonna f*cking stop a rapist. Once you're raped, you stay raped. This ad is promoting common sense and providing a very real world warning. You can put your fingers in your ears and go "LALALALALALALALA I'LL DO WHAT I WANT IF SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS IT'S NOT MY FAULT" all you want but that is NOT going to stop the bad things from happening. There are very bad, lecherous people out there just ITCHING for a chance to gain the upper hand over you. Don't let them have it.

As a side note that ex got blackout wasted one night and cheated on me. Said she didn't remember a thing and then tried to say the guy raped her. People that were there said she was ALL OVER the guy and went off with him willingly. So not only did she end up inviting in an otherwise unwanted dick she lost the one she did actually want... mine.
 
2011-12-09 12:39:51 PM

raggtopp: pute kisses like a man: If you KNEW you could have done one of those things that would have prevented a crime to you, then you DO share some blame for the end result.


Knara: pute kisses like a man:
To say that there's no difference between risky behavior and mindful behavior is not blaming the victim. That mode of thought is intellectually dishonest.


Our failure here lies in our inability to match our definitions of blame. according to my interpretation of your statements, were are not terribly far apart, but we differ significantly in our definition. Sorry for lumping both of you together, but I thought your arguments were similar enough to be addressed together.

Where you use blame to include an awareness of increased risk, you conclude that the application of blameworthiness is a quantifiable factor that is unique and independent from the calculation of blameworthiness of the other parties. I think of it more in the sense of an absolute fault where the fault of an event is a percentage, necessarily shared between the parties on a scale. My point of view is that, on this sliding scale, I cannot take blame from the perpetrator and apply it to the victim, because I cannot justify less than 100% blameworthiness for the perp. Thus, I cannot apply blame to the victim because all that remains is 0%. Whereas, you will allow two separate and independent calculations.

well, I guess it is not so much our definitions but what we have concluded is the object of blame. For me, the object of blame relates to the event. For you, the object of blame is subjective, and therefore different, for each party.
 
2011-12-09 12:40:23 PM

Andrew Wiggin: FrylockMastershake: How many nuns are getting raped on sunday afternoon at church?

none.


Now, if you said altar boys....
 
2011-12-09 12:46:21 PM

raggtopp: That coward David Lopan: , she regrets it the next morning, she blames guy. If girls can't be held responsible for making bad decisions while drunk, then we have to excuse D.U.I. drivers for doing the same (I'm not advocating that, just using an analogy).

So....the guy blames HER for rape because they were both drunk? Cites 807318923174798 previous cases of women doing the exact same thing.

/challenge accepted?


It's like the old example they teach you in law school (lawyer friend, not me): If person A is walking down the street and sees person B changing in front of an open window in their home, who is to blame?

Answer: the man. If he was inside the house, he's an exhibitionist. If he was the one on the street, he's the Peeping Tom.
 
2011-12-09 12:47:09 PM

oh_please: Andrew Wiggin: FrylockMastershake: How many nuns are getting raped on sunday afternoon at church?

none.

Now, if you said altar boys....


Because they've been drinking the sacramental wine, duh!
 
2011-12-09 12:48:23 PM
What does it matter whose "fault" it is? This idiotic argument has no bearing on anything important.
 
2011-12-09 12:48:48 PM

pute kisses like a man: Our failure here lies in our inability to match our definitions of blame. according to my interpretation of your statements, were are not terribly far apart, but we differ significantly in our definition. Sorry for lumping both of you together, but I thought your arguments were similar enough to be addressed together.

Where you use blame to include an awareness of increased risk, you conclude that the application of blameworthiness is a quantifiable factor that is unique and independent from the calculation of blameworthiness of the other parties. I think of it more in the sense of an absolute fault where the fault of an event is a percentage, necessarily shared between the parties on a scale. My point of view is that, on this sliding scale, I cannot take blame from the perpetrator and apply it to the victim, because I cannot justify less than 100% blameworthiness for the perp. Thus, I cannot apply blame to the victim because all that remains is 0%. Whereas, you will allow two separate and independent calculations.

well, I guess it is not so much our definitions but what we have concluded is the object of blame. For me, the object of blame relates to the event. For you, the object of blame is subjective, and therefore different, for each party.


Well, and one has to also consider that there's differences here in how the rapiness played out.

Is it the stereotypical "dragged into an alley and raped" bit? Then yeah, the rapist is 100% to blame for their actions, but there also may have been ways for the rapee to have avoided the situation altogether, depending on the actions taken beforehand. Same for "I got someone drunk who wouldn't have sex with me when they were sober *specifically* for the reason of having sex with them."

In the case of "we were both drinking and had sex that we wouldn't have had if we were sober and/or i'm not entirely happy it occurred" I'm not comfortable with assigning "rapist blame" to either of them. In that case it's more of a "hm, maybe this is a life lesson that I can learn and maybe we shouldn't repeat it"

/then of course there's the best case scenario "we got drunk and had sex and it was totally awesome and we're totally gonna do it again"
 
2011-12-09 12:49:17 PM
*sigh* I farking hate this whole argument. Women are NOT to blame for rape. RAPISTS are to blame for rape.

That said, I am teaching my daughters that if they choose to drink, they need to drink responsibly, in moderation, and not get snot-hanging shiatfaced. And if they are going to be in a situation where they might have more than a drink or two, they need to pick a trusted friend and use the buddy system. And to be in charge of their own drink from open/pour to finish.

Because I would rather teach them these things than console them after they have been raped by assuring them that the rape wasn't their fault.
 
2011-12-09 12:49:41 PM
Pulling down your panties isn't normal. But on alcohol it is.
 
2011-12-09 12:50:00 PM

FrylockMastershake: How many nuns are getting raped on sunday afternoon at church?


All of em at Father Rapeo Molesti's Parish...
 
2011-12-09 12:50:13 PM

here to help:
I had an ex who would black out and turn into a total over the top flirt. She would feel mortified at her behavior the next day. I kept telling her she should be careful because someone might decide to attack her and she pulled the whole "I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO CHANGE MY BEHAVIOR BECAUSE OF RAPISTS". To which I obviously agree but that isn't gonna f*cking stop a rapist. Once you're raped, you stay raped. This ad is promoting common sense and providing a very real world warning. You can put your fingers in your ears and go "LALALALALALALALA I'LL DO WHAT I WANT IF SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS IT'S NOT MY FAULT" all you want but that is NOT going to stop the bad things from happening. There are very bad, lecherous people out there just ITCHING for a chance to gain the upper hand over you. Don't let them have it.

As a side note that ex got blackout wasted one night and cheated on me. Said she didn't remember a thing and then tried to say the guy raped her. People that were there said she was ALL OVER the guy and went off with him willingly. So not only did she end up inviting in an otherwise unwanted dick she lost the one she did actually want... mine.


that's my ex!
 
2011-12-09 12:50:28 PM
Serious question here: what would be an acceptable way of phrasing the "here's how to reduce your risk factors" bit without someone interpreting it as victim blaming?
 
2011-12-09 12:50:50 PM

Xetal: I should also be able to, as a white guy, walk through Compton at 3 am with money taped to my sides. It's a free country and mugging is wrong and solely the fault of the person committing the crime. It isn't my fault at all if I put myself in a situation where a crime against me is much more likely to happen, right?


No, apparently that would be "blaming the victim" and we can't do that. Seems the same to me as leaving my car on the street with the keys in the ignition. Even considering that I take the responsibility to remove the keys, and thus make it harder for someone to victimize me, is blaming the victim.
 
2011-12-09 12:51:40 PM

That coward David Lopan: It's like the old example they teach you in law school (lawyer friend, not me): If person A is walking down the street and sees person B changing in front of an open window in their home, who is to blame?

Answer: the man. If he was inside the house, he's an exhibitionist. If he was the one on the street, he's the Peeping Tom.


Notorious example. You'll also find very few lawyers who will disagree with the idea that in many ways women are still considered children in the eyes of the legal system. They're "victims waiting to happen", as it were.

It is "problematic", as some would say.
 
2011-12-09 12:52:28 PM
Never blame the girl for getting rapped, but if she willing let herself get so hammered she does not know the difference, then she is responsible for the drinking part. It's certainly not her fault there happens to be a moron in the room when she does get that hammered, but if you are that wasted, then you do put yourself in a dangerous situation. no difference than a drunk who totals his car. If the drinks were not forced down your throat, then you are responsible for that part of the problem.
 
Displayed 50 of 290 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report