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(WTSP)   Perhaps the anti-drinking PSA with the drunk girl pulling her panties down wasn't such a great idea   (wtsp.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, PSA, pennsylvania liquor control board, jezebel, alcohol abuses, index fingers, Stacey Witalec, alcohol poisoning  
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24678 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Dec 2011 at 10:58 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-12-09 11:23:31 AM  

Theaetetus: Savoir-Faire: Theaetetus: Did you ever stop and consider that, while we may think the victim is partially to blame if their car gets stolen in a bad part of town, or if they get beat up mouthing off in a bar, or if they get mugged while texting on their iPhone, we don't suggest that any of these reduce the criminal liability of the perpetrator.

Hello dumbass, we suggest those things all the time and in no instance does it reduce the criminal liability of the perpetrator.

That's what I just said. You apparently agree with me. So, who exactly are you calling a dumbass?


I heard it was "be nasty to Theaetetus day" dumbass
 
2011-12-09 11:23:41 AM  

Theaetetus: LasersHurt: Theaetetus: LasersHurt: I mean clearly robbers are the wrong ones in a robbery - but we still lock our doors and don't go down alleys at night.

But when someone's house is robbed, we don't suggest they were asking for it, or really gave away their stuff and then had regrets the next day. If caught, the robber doesn't try to use consent as a defense.

I know your heart's in the right place, but emotionally arguing that we should never, ever talk about the victims of crime is just silly.

I never said that, though. And I'd agree that we should talk about it. So, what exactly is the point of your strawman?


You came in here shrieking at everyone who was trying to discuss it about how it was totally inappropriate to discuss the victim's role.

We have classes on self defense, securing a home, etc, etc for a reason - OF COURSE its the criminal's fault a crime happens, but that's no reason not to be honest about the rest of the situation.

Yes, but let's be honest about the criminal, too - only in sexual assault cases do we consider actions of the victim to reduce liability or mitigate the responsibility of the perpetrator. Not so in robbery, theft, etc.


You seem to think we're judges or jurors, including these discussion in the verdict. We're not, and that would be inappropriate. We're just internet buttholes talking about it - you're fighting the good fight against the manocentric maleocracy skewing courts, but this is just a discussion thread.
 
2011-12-09 11:23:59 AM  

This text is now purple: Theaetetus: The "horny frat douche" who is likewise drunk is primarily a myth.

This may be the only time on fark I've ever heard it alleged that horny frat douches do not exist in a state of near-perpetual drunkenness.


Which is, of course, nonsense.

Of course, people never really address the "horny sorority chicks" or "women who go to frat parties because they know they can get free beer and get laid" parts.

I, myself, am more concerned with getting some of the aforementioned "demon rum".
 
2011-12-09 11:24:07 AM  

Theaetetus: Yes, but let's be honest about the criminal, too - only in sexual assault cases do we consider actions of the victim to reduce liability or mitigate the responsibility of the perpetrator. Not so in robbery, theft, etc.


However, we do in situations of assault, battery, homicide, etc.
 
MBK [TotalFark]
2011-12-09 11:25:52 AM  
Wow, a lot of dumb farks here in this thread.

I don't agree that the PSA puts blame on the victim, but a lot of dumb people in this thread seem to think every rape is somehow partly the victim's fault.

It is never the victim's fault. I don't care if they are wearing a mini skirt and a shirt that says "fark me" and are drunk off their ass, that is no excuse for rape.

Just because a girl is too drunk to say no, it still doesn't mean she said yes.
 
2011-12-09 11:25:57 AM  

Honest Bender: the victim might be partially to blame for getting herself into that kind of situation to begin with?



Yes, burkhas and only allowed outside with a male chaperone. That's the ticket!
 
2011-12-09 11:26:20 AM  

Slives: So who has the link to de-slideshow the 285 page Mugshot roundup?
I did the first 20 or so and there seems to be some very luz-worthy ones in there.


LOL, dirty email?

images.netmare.org
 
2011-12-09 11:27:02 AM  
Generally people don't make false accusations about being robbed that can destroy another person's life.

This happens all the time. I had a friend almost have his career destroyed over a false rape accusation, and this guy has only slept with two women in his whole life (Has been married for 10 years now). He gave a girl a ride home from a concert and never even kissed her. The next morning, he picks up his phone and she says, "WHY DID YOU RAPE ME?!". Police involved, charges filed, etc. etc.

It took 9 months for them to finally figure out she had been institutionalized on 3 separate occasions and had gone off her meds. Would have been nice for the prosecutor to check that shiat out in the first place.

See also Crystal Mangum and the Duke LaCrosse Team. Sure, they were douches, but they got railroaded for nothing.
 
2011-12-09 11:28:48 AM  

Harry Zach OBalls: "She didn't want to do it, but she couldn't say no"...Because she was drunk???

I've been all kinds of F'ed up and and never had a problem telling some one to fark off.

/I am a dude, but I don't think that matters


I've sadly seen friends black-out drunk do stupid shiat...next day they had no idea they fought a cactus/farked a fatty/broke their hand. It can happen, especially if you mix pharmaceuticals in there.
 
2011-12-09 11:29:45 AM  

Theaetetus: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Problem is, sometimes rape is just a horny frat-douche screwing his too-drunk-to-protest date (hence the term "date rape"). In those cases, alcohol consumption IS to blame.

Actually, in research of serial rapists, they tend to intentionally get their dates too drunk to protest, and know exactly what they're doing. Look up "predator theory". The "horny frat douche" who is likewise drunk is primarily a myth.


The statistics cited when proposing predator theory are pretty incredible (in a very believable way).

Here's a question. How does "predator theory" interact with the concept of "rape culture"?
 
2011-12-09 11:31:25 AM  

Savoir-Faire: Generally people don't make false accusations about being robbed that can destroy another person's life.

This happens all the time. I had a friend almost have his career destroyed over a false rape accusation, and this guy has only slept with two women in his whole life (Has been married for 10 years now). He gave a girl a ride home from a concert and never even kissed her. The next morning, he picks up his phone and she says, "WHY DID YOU RAPE ME?!". Police involved, charges filed, etc. etc.

It took 9 months for them to finally figure out she had been institutionalized on 3 separate occasions and had gone off her meds. Would have been nice for the prosecutor to check that shiat out in the first place.

See also Crystal Mangum and the Duke LaCrosse Team. Sure, they were douches, but they got railroaded for nothing.


Yeah, I'd re-post my old comments about false rape claims, but it takes too long to find 'em. I've had friends in that position and it sucks...and in these particular instances it was the ol "I regret what I did, have a boyfriend, so I'll cry rape so he doesn't dump me" mentality I referenced in my comment above.

False rape claims are no joke, and they tarnish people's view of actual rape victims...
 
2011-12-09 11:31:26 AM  

Oh_Enough_Already: Rape is the only crime that there need be no physical evidence to prove, only an allegation, which can be charged after ANY sexual encounter if said encounter is viewed through the correct ideological lens, and is also the only crime where advising people how to reduce their chances of being a victim of it is called "blaming the victim."


DING
 
2011-12-09 11:32:07 AM  

Theaetetus: LasersHurt: I mean clearly robbers are the wrong ones in a robbery - but we still lock our doors and don't go down alleys at night.

But when someone's house is robbed, we don't suggest they were asking for it, or really gave away their stuff and then had regrets the next day. If caught, the robber doesn't try to use consent as a defense.


If I get punched in the face because I went up to the meanest looking dude in a bar and spat in his drink, we call it 'beer muscles', not assault. It *is* assault on meanest dude's part, but making mistakes with bigger consequences than normal is part and parcel to partying too hard. Of course, that's not to say that date-rape isn't a serious issue, to be taken seriously. But this 'drunk women are incapable of consent' thing doesn't pass the smell test for me. Blacked out women? Duh. Incapable of forming a coherent sentence? Let her sleep it off. Draping herself all over everything with a pulse and talking about personal shiat to everyone who will listen while pouring drinks for every guy in the room? Where's the line?
 
2011-12-09 11:32:18 AM  

Oh_Enough_Already: Drunk man wakes up naked next to 300 pound woman: "Yikes, that was a mistake. I should drink less."

Drunk woman wakes up naked next to 300 pound man: "Yikes, that was a mistake. If I say I was raped and ruin this guy's life I won't feel like such an idiot."


I genuinely wonder how many corrections officers have overheard inmate conversations about how "that biatch gonna die when I get out".
 
MBK [TotalFark]
2011-12-09 11:32:25 AM  

Savoir-Faire: Generally people don't make false accusations about being robbed that can destroy another person's life.

This happens all the time. I had a friend almost have his career destroyed over a false rape accusation, and this guy has only slept with two women in his whole life (Has been married for 10 years now). He gave a girl a ride home from a concert and never even kissed her. The next morning, he picks up his phone and she says, "WHY DID YOU RAPE ME?!". Police involved, charges filed, etc. etc.

It took 9 months for them to finally figure out she had been institutionalized on 3 separate occasions and had gone off her meds. Would have been nice for the prosecutor to check that shiat out in the first place.

See also Crystal Mangum and the Duke LaCrosse Team. Sure, they were douches, but they got railroaded for nothing.


And for every story like this, how many stories are there of rape victims being intimidated and not coming forward?

How many rape victims have their sex lives put on full display with the idea of "look, she was a whore, what is the harm in one extra fark?"

How many rape victims are blame for having too much of a good time? So guess what, for every "oh, she was just ruining his life" story, I'm willing to be there are 10x as much more stories of rape victims having their lives ruined by rape.

But hey, your story should give you reason to believe every woman who is raped is a lying whore who just wants money and to ruin someone's life.
 
2011-12-09 11:33:17 AM  

MBK: Wow, a lot of dumb farks here in this thread.

I don't agree that the PSA puts blame on the victim, but a lot of dumb people in this thread seem to think every rape is somehow partly the victim's fault.

It is never the victim's fault. I don't care if they are wearing a mini skirt and a shirt that says "fark me" and are drunk off their ass, that is no excuse for rape.

Just because a girl is too drunk to say no, it still doesn't mean she said yes.


So a table for two for you and your strawman?
 
2011-12-09 11:34:05 AM  
Effective, truthful ad pulled because it offends sensibilities of people with insanely narrow view on issue.
 
2011-12-09 11:34:20 AM  
static.guim.co.uk

My Deutsch is a little rusty, but I believe it says "Don't get drunk, or Hitler will stick it in your pooper"
 
2011-12-09 11:36:55 AM  

Theaetetus: Honest Bender: Critics said it was another example of suggesting victims are to blame for rape.

Did you ever stop and consider that, in some cases, the victim might be partially to blame for getting herself into that kind of situation to begin with?

Did you ever stop and consider that, while we may think the victim is partially to blame if their car gets stolen in a bad part of town, or if they get beat up mouthing off in a bar, or if they get mugged while texting on their iPhone, we don't suggest that any of these reduce the criminal liability of the perpetrator. We also don't make victims of theft, assault, or robbery pay for their own investigations. We also don't bring up past instances when they've driven a car or been in that part of town to suggest they wanted it. We also don't suggest they liked it, or just had regrets the next morning about getting robbed.

Even if you think the victim's partially to blame, that's irrelevant, because it doesn't reduce the liability of the rapist. So why bring up your douchey holier-than-thou "she's partly to blame" opinion, unless you have an ulterior motive, such as discouraging women from going out in public and participating in society?


Dude....this the ENTIRE point of this ad. It's not REDUCING the criminal liability of the rapist....it's just saying that HEY, if you hadn't over consumed alcohol, you probably wouldn't have gotten raped.

There damn well IS an ulterior motive here...and it is to convince WOMEN (e.g. the rapees) that they should be wary about over consuming alcohol and opening themselves up to being taken advantage of.

Also.....acknowledging that the victim is DEFINITELY partly to blame is the first step in EDUCATING these victims into not being victims anymore.

There's a chance you might get raped....you could do something simple to help prevent that from happening.

'NOT getting black out drunk' is to 'preventing rape' as
'wearing your seatbelt' is to 'surviving a car accident'
 
2011-12-09 11:37:17 AM  
Telling people not to act stupid isn't blaming the victim.

But thanks for this idea, I'm going to have a hell of a lot of fun with it in the politics tab. "You can't get mad at people who voted for George Bush, because that would be blaming the victim."
 
2011-12-09 11:38:39 AM  

Theaetetus: theft, assault, or robbery pay for their own investigations


Man, I wish I lived where you do. Here I've been the victim of theft, assault, and robbery... Paid taxes (like we all do) and the police did no sort of "investigation". -The only thing they *did* do was suggest I stay out of those neighborhoods and not carry nice things into them or leave those nice things in my car. -And we're not talking ghetto neighborhoods either.

-Just to make the point, we *do* pay for investigations of these crimes, and many of us get screwed because even though we're paying for the investigation through our taxes... nothing gets done about it.
 
2011-12-09 11:38:49 AM  
Without drunk women many men would never get laid. It's the American way.

To avoid later confusion or false accusations perhaps a consent form of some sort in is order. The problem is, the more you pursue clarity on the issue the more the woman has sobered up.

/Against rape. Crime of violence, control etc.
 
2011-12-09 11:39:00 AM  
static.onemansblog.com
 
2011-12-09 11:41:18 AM  

daveb0rg: and there seems to be some very luz-worthy ones in there.


If I make a face or wear my shirt backwards, my friends at the bar won't recognize me.
 
2011-12-09 11:41:29 AM  

MBK: And for every story like this, how many stories are there of rape victims being intimidated and not coming forward?

How many rape victims have their sex lives put on full display with the idea of "look, she was a whore, what is the harm in one extra fark?"

How many rape victims are blame for having too much of a good time? So guess what, for every "oh, she was just ruining his life" story, I'm willing to be there are 10x as much more stories of rape victims having their lives ruined by rape.

But hey, your story should give you reason to believe every woman who is raped is a lying whore who just wants money and to ruin someone's life.


Everything you say is true.

However, on a national/global scale, it's much better to have some criminals go free due to technicalities and lack of evidence, than have innocent peoples' lives ruined just so we can catch every edge case.
 
2011-12-09 11:42:20 AM  

raggtopp: 'NOT getting black out drunk' is to 'preventing rape' as
'wearing your seatbelt' is to 'surviving a car accident'


I don't like this analogy. The car accident is likely partially the driver's fault, or it is at least an accident in which the seat belt is a safety measure. Rape is not the victim's fault. Sobriety is not a safety measure against rape, it is a coincidence. Do you blame the victim for being robbed at gun point because they were walking around late at night?
 
2011-12-09 11:42:41 AM  

Theaetetus: Even if you think the victim's partially to blame, that's irrelevant, because it doesn't reduce the liability of the rapist.


You're arguing a point that has absolutely nothing to do with any statements or claims I made. By all means continue, but I wont be participating.
 
2011-12-09 11:42:59 AM  

Cletus C.: Without drunk women many men would never get laid. It's the American human way.


FTFY

Of course, it works the opposite way, too. Alcohol has been the social lubricant of choice throughout history for men and women.
 
2011-12-09 11:44:27 AM  
She claimed she wasn't a whore, but she was wearing a whore's uniform.

/that shiat is confusing
//rapity-rape rape
 
2011-12-09 11:46:14 AM  
I'm glad to see the comments on this page aren't just the psycho-feminazi propagandist b.s. that I usually see, which makes men into monsters and women into innocent angels that played no part in the events that occur. Of course the guy is to blame. But when alcohol is involved, things get murky. Is there such a thing as second-degree rape? When she is so drunk that she can't say no, and he is so drunk he can't keep a coherent thought in his head other than his biological urges, is there really a crime being committed? If so, is it really the same thing as a predatory rape? I don't think so. Some women want to say that if a guy has entered her, with her consent and encouragement, and then in the middle of coitus she says stop, one single extra thrust is rape. That's effing ridiculous. If you don't want to have sex, don't put yourself in a position where you will be having sex. If you get drunk and something bad happens to you, you're partly responsible. Yes, ladies, if you get drunk and then are raped, you had a hand in creating that situation. No, it doesn't exonerate the guy at all. Not even a little bit. It just condemns you too. And all you women that think I'm blaming the victim, I'm not. I'm saying you're both victim and victimizer of yourself. To use an analogy, if an intravenous drug user contracts AIDS because they were sharing a needle with a stranger, is it the fault of the virus? No, it's your dumbass fault you were doing something stupid. So don't get so drunk you can't control yourself and then go somewhere to hook up with someone. Some of you want to live a life out of control without consequences. Sorry, no sympathy here.
 
2011-12-09 11:46:46 AM  

Knara: Cletus C.: Without drunk women many men would never get laid. It's the American human way.

FTFY

Of course, it works the opposite way, too. Alcohol has been the social lubricant of choice throughout history for men and women.


You should see how weird it looks from the POV of someone who doesn't drink. :)

/And yet somehow managed to reproduce
//But it's a redhead, so that doesn't count :)
 
2011-12-09 11:46:54 AM  

pute kisses like a man: Do you blame the victim for being robbed at gun point because they were walking around late at night?


Depends on where they're walking. If you're walking around alone late at night in a known sketchy neighborhood, yeah, guess what, you're partially to blame because you performed an action that you knew was risky.

It doesn't excuse the robber, but there's a thing called "using your head" which can prevent the likelihood of situation from ever happening in the first place.

In a magic, innocent world perhaps we could just go about our lives and never have to think about how our own actions can affect our safety. That world has never existed, however.

So, if you don't want to get raped, you can totally reduce the likelihood of that happening by not exposing yourself to situations where the likelihood of being raped is significantly increased. Is that totally morally correct in a philosophical way? Probably not. Is it practical? Yup.
 
2011-12-09 11:48:06 AM  

Savoir-Faire: Generally people don't make false accusations about being robbed that can destroy another person's life.

This happens all the time. I had a friend almost have his career destroyed over a false rape accusation, and this guy has only slept with two women in his whole life (Has been married for 10 years now). He gave a girl a ride home from a concert and never even kissed her. The next morning, he picks up his phone and she says, "WHY DID YOU RAPE ME?!". Police involved, charges filed, etc. etc.

It took 9 months for them to finally figure out she had been institutionalized on 3 separate occasions and had gone off her meds. Would have been nice for the prosecutor to check that shiat out in the first place.

See also Crystal Mangum and the Duke LaCrosse Team. Sure, they were douches, but they got railroaded for nothing.


We stopped a friend in our group from calling the cops on a guy she said "date raped" her. She came at us like this horrible thing happened and told us she was raped. After about 15 minutes of her being wishy washy about what ACTUALLY happened, she admits that she invited him back to her place for drinks, they made out and when he went to fark her "she didn't want to...but let him anyway."

She never protested ONCE, before or during...and didn't say anything about it after either. She even said she let him leave thinking everything was cool.

It was after that occurrence specifically that I started to understand why there's always a bit of doubt thrown on a rape accusation.
 
2011-12-09 11:48:31 AM  

Honest Bender: Critics said it was another example of suggesting victims are to blame for rape.

Did you ever stop and consider that, in some cases, the victim might be partially to blame for getting herself into that kind of situation to begin with?


You stop that right now. Women are not to be held accountable for making bad decisions!!!
 
2011-12-09 11:49:27 AM  
It's funny 'cause it's true.
 
2011-12-09 11:49:43 AM  

Knara: So, if you don't want to get raped, you can totally reduce the likelihood of that happening by not exposing yourself to situations where the likelihood of being raped is significantly increased. Is that totally morally correct in a philosophical way? Probably not. Is it practical? Yup.


I agree with this.

Rape is bad. Rape is bad. Rape is BAD (It's amazing we still have to say this, like somehow it's not common knowledge). BUT... Don't knowingly put yourself in high-risk situations without a compelling reason to do so. Be pragmatic. Yes, you don't deserve to be raped - no one does! - but that doesn't give you a magical shield against rape, either. Use your head brains.
 
2011-12-09 11:50:10 AM  

Aidan: Knara: Cletus C.: Without drunk women many men would never get laid. It's the American human way.

FTFY

Of course, it works the opposite way, too. Alcohol has been the social lubricant of choice throughout history for men and women.

You should see how weird it looks from the POV of someone who doesn't drink. :)

/And yet somehow managed to reproduce
//But it's a redhead, so that doesn't count :)


You'll pay in the end. The redheads are always fun, but there's always a catch ;)

It's not "weird", anyway. People like to drink. It is fun. Sure, some folks can't handle it, either because they don't want to or through a cruel trick of biology, but for most folks it's a relaxing, entertaining time. Always been that way.
 
2011-12-09 11:50:19 AM  
What the ad should have looked like...
i582.photobucket.com
 
2011-12-09 11:50:36 AM  

Aidan: no one does!


my boss does. dry. with a mace.
 
2011-12-09 11:52:14 AM  

Aidan: Rape is bad. Rape is bad. Rape is BAD (It's amazing we still have to say this, like somehow it's not common knowledge).


Well, it's one of those saying you have to put in front of any of these situations with people you don't personally know just so that you can try to fast-forward past the "but you're blaming the victim and participating in rape culture" part of the program.

Only works part of the time, though. Ask the Penny Arcade guys.
 
2011-12-09 11:52:25 AM  

Knara: It's not "weird", anyway. People like to drink. It is fun. Sure, some folks can't handle it, either because they don't want to or through a cruel trick of biology, but for most folks it's a relaxing, entertaining time. Always been that way.


Oh, I know. It's just a little startling to look out and realize just how much of humanity, history, sociology and ... well... biology is affected by booze. It makes me feel like a freak for not being affected by something so all-encompassing and happy-times-making. :)
 
2011-12-09 11:53:25 AM  

Knara: Brother_Mouzone: I suppose an ad for rape isnt supposed to give me a boner, is it? or maybe it is.

It's supposed to give you a boner and then make you feel bad about it


Kind of like that one Meth ad where it shows the girl on the ground getting pounded from behind. I get the weirdest boner looking at that one.
 
2011-12-09 11:55:26 AM  

Andrew Wiggin: Aidan: no one does!

my boss does. dry. with a mace.


Damn you for ruining my perfect statement. :)
 
2011-12-09 11:55:42 AM  
I should also be able to, as a white guy, walk through Compton at 3 am with money taped to my sides. It's a free country and mugging is wrong and solely the fault of the person committing the crime. It isn't my fault at all if I put myself in a situation where a crime against me is much more likely to happen, right?
 
2011-12-09 11:55:56 AM  

Aidan: Knara: It's not "weird", anyway. People like to drink. It is fun. Sure, some folks can't handle it, either because they don't want to or through a cruel trick of biology, but for most folks it's a relaxing, entertaining time. Always been that way.

Oh, I know. It's just a little startling to look out and realize just how much of humanity, history, sociology and ... well... biology is affected by booze. It makes me feel like a freak for not being affected by something so all-encompassing and happy-times-making. :)


You are a freak for not being affected by booze. Are you a robot? :p
 
2011-12-09 11:56:12 AM  

Honest Bender: Critics said it was another example of suggesting victims are to blame for rape.

Did you ever stop and consider that, in some cases, the victim might be partially to blame for getting herself into that kind of situation to begin with?


Duuude. I grew up in Cancun. Most of my friend's parents are hotel owners or managers. Can't tell you how many times I've seen the whole rape scenario the day after partying all night, dancing up on the bars completely shiat-faced. Not saying it doesn't happen [rape]... Just what I've seen... And I don't recall any men complaining about rape...
 
2011-12-09 11:56:54 AM  

Oh_Enough_Already: and is also the only crime where advising people how to reduce their chances of being a victim of it is called "blaming the victim."


I agree that "blaming the victim" is overused, but this...

Honest Bender: the victim might be partially to blame


... is blaming the victim.
 
2011-12-09 11:57:48 AM  

Andrew Wiggin: Aidan: no one does!

my boss does. dry. with a mace.


Financial rape is a whole different kettle of kondoms.

/blah blah
 
2011-12-09 11:58:17 AM  

Oh_Enough_Already: Drunk woman wakes up naked next to 300 pound man: "Yikes, that was a mistake. If I say I was raped and ruin this guy's life I won't feel like such an idiot."


...Aaaand this is why I'm afraid to take home a girl from a party/bar, even if she's doesn't seem the least bit drunk.

Well, that and I live in my parents' basement and have no money to go to parties/bars.
 
2011-12-09 11:58:46 AM  

nibls66: What the ad should have looked like...
[i582.photobucket.com image 250x423]


isn't that the Appetite for Destruction album art??

/used to have the litttle patch too
//yay record players...
 
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