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(Talking Points Memo) Interesting How Mitt Romney did exactly what Democrats wanted him to do by attacking Newt   (2012.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 55
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hubiestubert [TotalFark]
2011-12-08 04:01:37 PM
It's not about what the Democrats want. It's the inexorable pull of the Primaries.

The closer we get to the Primaries, the more out for blood the ads are going to get. I'm surprised that folks aren't letting PACs do the dirty work, but at this point, folks are looking to take as much credit as possible, and Romney especially wants to look decisive.

Kos and TPM and the others can giggle with glee all they want, but everyone in the race pretty much knows that Newt is weak and vulnerable, and so far, they've left him alone, because of that. No sense picking on the fat kid who can't run so good, but when he starts making noises that he really DOES want to be on the football team this year, well, folks aren't going to stand for that. Let him carry the water, let him cheerlead, let him be inoffensive and sell candy bars, but no way in Hells he's getting in that locker room, because NO ONE wants to see his tubby butt nekkid.

Taking credit for the natural progression of the Primary process is weak sauce.
 
hubiestubert [TotalFark]
2011-12-08 04:22:37 PM
I don't think that this sinks him for the Primaries.

It will leave himself wide open if he gets past them. But, to be fair, no matter which direction you go with Romney, he is going to be vulnerable, because of the Quantum Political Superposition...
 
vernonFL [TotalFark]
2011-12-08 04:35:32 PM
How many insults will Romney take from the GOP base?

Mitt, THEY DON'T LIKE YOU. Okay? Get it?
 
Diogenes [TotalFark]
2011-12-08 04:49:20 PM
As a Democrat, I can't say I'm too excited.

Mitt's just going to give himself another nuh-uh deus ex machina. Like how the individual mandate was OK when he did it. He'll stick with the "we will completely transform it into something completely unrecognizable that doesn't function the way it used to, but we're not eliminating it" nonsense. And get away with it.
 
CanisNoir [TotalFark]
2011-12-08 04:58:15 PM
hubiestubert: It's not about what the Democrats want. It's the inexorable pull of the Primaries.

Exactly. It's a GOP Primary and to expect the candidates *not* to attack each other is to be ignorant. Now mind you, Democrats should be happy that this happened, because they've been planning a campaign against Romney since at least May, and had counted Newt out. Romneys' problem is his strategy was backwards in the sense that he ran early as a moderate and only now that he's been challenged is he tacking to the right; in a primary you normally run as your base and tack to the center in the general, which is what Newt has done.

I think the momentum Newt has gained from the debates took quite a few people by surprise and now both Democrat strategists and Romney advisers are quickly changing their plans on the fly.
 
Somacandra [TotalFark]
2011-12-08 05:22:19 PM
i.imgur.com
 
Somacandra [TotalFark]
2011-12-08 05:24:08 PM
hubiestubert: It's not about what the Democrats want. It's the inexorable pull of the Primaries.

Precisely. Reagan's '11th commandment' was not something he followed all the time either. Witness his primary run at Gerald Ford in 1976.
 
Diogenes [TotalFark]
2011-12-08 05:26:39 PM
Somacandra: hubiestubert: It's not about what the Democrats want. It's the inexorable pull of the Primaries.

Precisely. Reagan's '11th commandment' was not something he followed all the time either. Witness his primary run at Gerald Ford in 1976.

He and Bush Sr. weren't great pals either, until the latter got veeped.
 
GAT_00 [TotalFark]
2011-12-08 05:47:44 PM
Oh yeah, a Romney flip-flop. That's going to totally kill his chances! I mean just look at that...no. Well, how about that...no. That one time he...no. How about when...no. Oh, that time he flip-flopped on his flip-flop, oh man that totally destroyed him...no.

But yeah, this one will totally do him in. Guaranteed.
 
Corvus
2011-12-08 07:03:36 PM
What Romney is changing a fundamental position just to get more votes? UNHEARD OF!!!!

HA!
 
CravenMorehead
2011-12-08 07:04:49 PM
It doesn't matter. Neither Romney of Gingrich has a chance in hell of beating Obama. If they are truly the best the GOP can muster they are going to lose and lose big in 2012. The dems won't even need to bother swift-boating them.
 
Corvus
2011-12-08 07:07:27 PM
I mean other than:
Abortion
Taxes
Foreign Policy
Gay Marriage
Social Security
Gun Control
"Obamacare"
Union Rights
Stem Cell Research
Climate Change
and probably a few other things.

What has he flipped flopped on?
 
Corvus
2011-12-08 07:08:20 PM
Corvus: I mean other than:
Abortion
Taxes
Foreign Policy
Gay Marriage
Social Security
Gun Control
"Obamacare"
Union Rights
Stem Cell Research
Climate Change
and probably a few other things.

What has he flipped flopped on?

Immigration - shiat that's another big one.
 
Herbie555
2011-12-08 07:09:49 PM
Let me first say that I think Gingrich is a disgusting cynical a-hole.

That said, it sort of saddens me (and I've said this on Fark before) that the ONE thing that the GOP "faithful" always seem to attack him on was the one shooting-from-the-hip thing he's ever said that I sort of agreed with (namely his criticism of the Ryan plan.)

I used to think of myself as a "reluctant Democrat" - I think of myself as a conservative that was forced to vote Democrat because of major disagreements on a few swing issues. The more this crap goes on and the more they pander to the extreme right by criticizing any statement made while even looking slightly to the left, the more I have to say that I don't want anything to do with that party.
 
Corvus
2011-12-08 07:12:22 PM
cnsnews.com
Romney also defended the Massachusetts law during the 2008 Republican presidential primary, specifically during a New Hampshire debate on Jan. 6, 2008:
Debate moderator Charles Gibson of ABC News: "But Gov. Romney's system has mandates in Massachusetts, although you backed away from mandates on a national basis."

Romney: "No, no, I like mandates. The mandates work."

Mandates were AWESOME until Obama did them!
 
twat_waffle
2011-12-08 07:15:52 PM
hubiestubert: I'm surprised that folks aren't letting PACs do the dirty work, but at this point, folks are looking to take as much credit as possible, and Romney especially wants to look decisive.

I'm not surprised. The Republican base loves attack ads and mudslinging. They eat this shiat up and ask for more. The rest of the country hates it and wants politicians to be seen as largely "above the fray". We like the illusion of our elected officials being statesmen.
 
Shaggy_C
2011-12-08 07:16:33 PM
The majority of America isn't going to remember anything that happens in the next few months come next fall.

The election will come down to jobs and the economy, barring a terrorist incident or something of course. Flip flops, bad policy, and outright lies by Republicans will have little to no bearing, thanks to the modern low information voter.
 
Gyrfalcon [TotalFark]
2011-12-08 07:16:43 PM
But we DON'T want Mitt to run. We'd rather have an obvious loser like the amphibian running against Obama next year.
 
Jurodan
2011-12-08 07:17:51 PM
I hope Mitt does tackle Newt before Iowa, I'm pretty sure something will. Frankly, I'd love to see the current #2 in that race take the top spot. That'd be Ron Paul, by the way. I'd love to see Fox spin that story. The looks of shock and appall would be utterly priceless.
 
Corvus
2011-12-08 07:20:01 PM
Gyrfalcon: But we DON'T want Mitt to run. We'd rather have an obvious loser like the amphibian running against Obama next year.

I agree. Newt has a big "I will never vote for this ass" base.
 
PartTimeBuddha
2011-12-08 07:21:44 PM
CanisNoir: hubiestubert: It's not about what the Democrats want. It's the inexorable pull of the Primaries.

Exactly. It's a GOP Primary and to expect the candidates *not* to attack each other is to be ignorant. Now mind you, Democrats should be happy that this happened, because they've been planning a campaign against Romney since at least May, and had counted Newt out. Romneys' problem is his strategy was backwards in the sense that he ran early as a moderate and only now that he's been challenged is he tacking to the right; in a primary you normally run as your base and tack to the center in the general, which is what Newt has done.

I think the momentum Newt has gained from the debates took quite a few people by surprise and now both Democrat strategists and Romney advisers are quickly changing their plans on the fly.

A plan against Newt isn't some kind of Earth-shattering Oh-My-God-What-Will-We-Do situation.

A plan against Newt is as complex as a one-legged chair falling over.
 
IoSaturnalia
2011-12-08 07:26:31 PM
Corvus: Gyrfalcon: But we DON'T want Mitt to run. We'd rather have an obvious loser like the amphibian running against Obama next year.

I agree. Newt has a big "I will never vote for this ass" base.

Excuse me for asking, but are you gentlemen insane? Wanting Newt to be an "any given Tuesday" away from the presidency?
 
Shaggy_C
2011-12-08 07:34:21 PM
IoSaturnalia: Excuse me for asking, but are you gentlemen insane? Wanting Newt to be an "any given Tuesday" away from the presidency?

Exactly my thought. The American people are too stupid to be trusted to do the right thing. No matter how 'easy' the pollyannas on these boards might make the election sound, I don't want there to even be a chance of that fark winning.
 
count chocula
2011-12-08 07:37:08 PM
IoSaturnalia: Corvus: Gyrfalcon: But we DON'T want Mitt to run. We'd rather have an obvious loser like the amphibian running against Obama next year.

I agree. Newt has a big "I will never vote for this ass" base.

Excuse me for asking, but are you gentlemen insane? Wanting Newt to be an "any given Tuesday" away from the presidency?

You're missing the point. Romney is by far the GOP hopeful with the greatest chance of actually winning the general election. The rest of the reject contenders would easily be steamrolled by Obama. Therefore, it would be beneficial to the Democrats if a Gingrich/Trump/Cain/Bachmann gets the nod from the Republicans.

/It's gonna be Romney. The actual forces behind the GOP are not dumb enough to let it be any of those other wack-a-loons actually end up on the ballot. Their "frontrunner status" is just throwing a bone to the base to make them feel important until they are called upon to do their duty and pull the lever next to the "R" name.
 
fusillade762
2011-12-08 07:45:48 PM
Jedi mind powers, Dems has them.
 
Notabunny
2011-12-08 07:47:13 PM
Herbie555: I used to think of myself as a "reluctant Democrat" - I think of myself as a conservative that was forced to vote Democrat because of major disagreements on a few swing issues. The more this crap goes on and the more they pander to the extreme right by criticizing any statement made while even looking slightly to the left, the more I have to say that I don't want anything to do with that party.

The first few months, the Republicans will spend hundreds of millions of dollars championing their candidate. About late September, they'll give up and plead, "Please don't give Obama the House and Senate, too!" Late one cold November night, the wolves will come for neocon ideology.
 
odinsposse
2011-12-08 07:49:14 PM
count chocula: IoSaturnalia: Corvus: Gyrfalcon: But we DON'T want Mitt to run. We'd rather have an obvious loser like the amphibian running against Obama next year.

I agree. Newt has a big "I will never vote for this ass" base.

Excuse me for asking, but are you gentlemen insane? Wanting Newt to be an "any given Tuesday" away from the presidency?

You're missing the point. Romney is by far the GOP hopeful with the greatest chance of actually winning the general election. The rest of the reject contenders would easily be steamrolled by Obama. Therefore, it would be beneficial to the Democrats if a Gingrich/Trump/Cain/Bachmann gets the nod from the Republicans.

/It's gonna be Romney. The actual forces behind the GOP are not dumb enough to let it be any of those other wack-a-loons actually end up on the ballot. Their "frontrunner status" is just throwing a bone to the base to make them feel important until they are called upon to do their duty and pull the lever next to the "R" name.

I felt quite confident that the country could see how damaging Bush's presidency was and that he wouldn't be reelected. Then, stupid shiat happened. There are large groups of people who vote for one party or the other no matter what. The people in the middle, the ones who national elections hinge on, are generally easily swayed dunderheads who get drawn in by catchy phrases and flashy images. You cannot trust people to make the right choice no matter how obviously wrong the wrong choice is.
 
Corvus
2011-12-08 07:49:40 PM
IoSaturnalia: Corvus: Gyrfalcon: But we DON'T want Mitt to run. We'd rather have an obvious loser like the amphibian running against Obama next year.

I agree. Newt has a big "I will never vote for this ass" base.

Excuse me for asking, but are you gentlemen insane? Wanting Newt to be an "any given Tuesday" away from the presidency?

I think Romney will be just as bad. He will be just like Bush an empty suit who will surround himself with right wing neo-con nutbags just like Bush did.
 
Corvus
2011-12-08 07:52:08 PM
IoSaturnalia: Corvus: Gyrfalcon: But we DON'T want Mitt to run. We'd rather have an obvious loser like the amphibian running against Obama next year.

I agree. Newt has a big "I will never vote for this ass" base.

Excuse me for asking, but are you gentlemen insane? Wanting Newt to be an "any given Tuesday" away from the presidency?

If you think Romney actually is a moderate you are fooling yourself. He only held the positions in Mass. so he could get elected. If he become president he will fill his cabinet with right wing idiots just like Bush did. He only wants to president for the power. That is very scary to me.
 
HeartBurnKid
2011-12-08 07:54:05 PM
hubiestubert: It's not about what the Democrats want. It's the inexorable pull of the Primaries.

The closer we get to the Primaries, the more out for blood the ads are going to get. I'm surprised that folks aren't letting PACs do the dirty work, but at this point, folks are looking to take as much credit as possible, and Romney especially wants to look decisive.

Kos and TPM and the others can giggle with glee all they want, but everyone in the race pretty much knows that Newt is weak and vulnerable, and so far, they've left him alone, because of that. No sense picking on the fat kid who can't run so good, but when he starts making noises that he really DOES want to be on the football team this year, well, folks aren't going to stand for that. Let him carry the water, let him cheerlead, let him be inoffensive and sell candy bars, but no way in Hells he's getting in that locker room, because NO ONE wants to see his tubby butt nekkid.

Taking credit for the natural progression of the Primary process is weak sauce.

After reading the article, it doesn't seem to me that the Democrats are taking credit at all. Rather, they're rubbing their hands together and cackling with glee.
 
jake3988
2011-12-08 07:54:32 PM
No, democrats want Newt to lead because he doesn't have a prayer in hell of winning against Obama.
 
IoSaturnalia
2011-12-08 07:54:42 PM
count chocula: You're missing the point. Romney is by far the GOP hopeful with the greatest chance of actually winning the general election. The rest of the reject contenders would easily be steamrolled by Obama. Therefore, it would be beneficial to the Democrats if a Gingrich/Trump/Cain/Bachmann gets the nod from the Republicans.

In a deterministic world, yup you are right.

But I could easily imagine a scenario where events could decide the contest in favor of "anybody but Obama", even Newt.

The economic recovery could easily about-face, leaving 10%+ unemployment by the end of next year. Combine that with a major international crisis (embassy takeover/hostages perhaps?) and maybe some kind of consumer-item shortage (gasoline? sugar?) and a political scandal within the Obama administration. Any president facing that multitude of challenges would have a tough time justifying his reelection, even to a known malevolent amphibian like Gingrich.
 
axeeugene
2011-12-08 07:57:14 PM
Corvus: Corvus: I mean other than:
Abortion
Taxes
Foreign Policy
Gay Marriage
Social Security
Gun Control
"Obamacare"
Union Rights
Stem Cell Research
Climate Change
and probably a few other things.

What has he flipped flopped on?

Immigration - shiat that's another big one.

Roads?
Public Baths?
Sanitation?

/Remember what the city USED to be like?
//Would like to be serious for a moment, but these farcical people are worthy only of Pythonian absurdity.
 
bravian
2011-12-08 08:09:54 PM
IoSaturnalia: Excuse me for asking, but are you gentlemen insane? Wanting Newt to be an "any given Tuesday" away from the presidency?

Makes you long for the good old days of Sarah Palin doesn't it?
 
Corvus
2011-12-08 08:19:00 PM
Lets compare what they will do and what they will try to do:

Mitt Romney: Empty Suit Car Salesman

Goal: Get Re-elected

What he will do is surround himself with Republicans who Republican insiders. Since he has no strong beliefs, like Bush was he will just follow what this group tell him without giving it much thought and playing to the conservative base for re-election. His presidency will be much like Bush.


Newt Gingrich: Narcissistic Megalomaniac

Goal: To recreate the United States in his image. (I am not going over the top here. He has pretty much said this his goal).

He is going to come up with one crazy idea after another. I think most of his ideas will be embarrassing and blow up in hi face, because like his child labor ideas, he never really thinks them through or how people will react to them as he comes up with them. I see even many Republicans defecting on his ideas. If Democrats control congress it's going to be WWIII with Newt. You think things are partisan now?
 
Shaggy_C
2011-12-08 08:29:12 PM
Corvus: Lets compare what they will do and what they will try to do:

So we either get Bush III or a Newtered Megalomaniac.

Decisions, decisions...
 
Muta
2011-12-08 08:34:37 PM
Corvus: I think Romney will be just as bad. He will be just like Bush an empty suit who will surround himself with right wing neo-con nutbags just like Bush did.

Agreed. He'll need GOP support to do anything and to get the support he'll need to kowtow to the Teabaggers. A vote for Romney is a vote for Bachmann.
 
IoSaturnalia
2011-12-08 08:44:59 PM
Shaggy_C: Corvus: Lets compare what they will do and what they will try to do:

So we either get Bush III or a Newtered Megalomaniac.

Decisions, decisions...

And what about Judicial nominations? Mitt would be likely to reinforce the corporate fascism of the Roberts Court while one could picture Newt nominating a Bork or two.
 
Shaggy_C
2011-12-08 08:49:01 PM
IoSaturnalia: And what about Judicial nominations? Mitt would be likely to reinforce the corporate fascism of the Roberts Court while one could picture Newt nominating a Bork or two.

I actually think Newt's would be far worse - he would take the cronyism to unparalleled levels. If you thought Bush nominating his idiot junior legal aide to the Supreme Court was bad, I can only imagine your response when Gingrich puts up some random nobody whose wife he banged 20 years ago and needs to make it up to.
 
entitygm
2011-12-08 09:52:50 PM
Herbie555: Let me first say that I think Gingrich is a disgusting cynical a-hole.

That said, it sort of saddens me (and I've said this on Fark before) that the ONE thing that the GOP "faithful" always seem to attack him on was the one shooting-from-the-hip thing he's ever said that I sort of agreed with (namely his criticism of the Ryan plan.)

I used to think of myself as a "reluctant Democrat" - I think of myself as a conservative that was forced to vote Democrat because of major disagreements on a few swing issues. The more this crap goes on and the more they pander to the extreme right by criticizing any statement made while even looking slightly to the left, the more I have to say that I don't want anything to do with that party.

I consider myself a reluctant Democrat too, sort of by default. I disagree with both parties on many things, but today's GOP is so batshiat insane it would be downright irresponsible to vote for one, pro-2nd amendment or not.

I agree with you on Newt's Ryan criticism. When I heard him say it I had a moment of respect for the man, criticizing his own like that. About 5 mins later I read his retraction, something about being misquoted... on video... Combined with St. Norquist's complete hypocrisy on the payroll tax cuts, I can't bring myself to vote for any of these clowns in the near future.

We need a truly left-wing candidate to run and show people just how centrist the Democrats have become, and how deep into the madhouse the gop base has dug itself
 
TyrantII
2011-12-08 09:59:36 PM
hubiestubert: It's not about what the Democrats want. It's the inexorable pull of the Primaries.

The closer we get to the Primaries, the more out for blood the ads are going to get. I'm surprised that folks aren't letting PACs do the dirty work, but at this point, folks are looking to take as much credit as possible, and Romney especially wants to look decisive.

Kos and TPM and the others can giggle with glee all they want, but everyone in the race pretty much knows that Newt is weak and vulnerable, and so far, they've left him alone, because of that. No sense picking on the fat kid who can't run so good, but when he starts making noises that he really DOES want to be on the football team this year, well, folks aren't going to stand for that. Let him carry the water, let him cheerlead, let him be inoffensive and sell candy bars, but no way in Hells he's getting in that locker room, because NO ONE wants to see his tubby butt nekkid.

Taking credit for the natural progression of the Primary process is weak sauce.

Not as weak and vulnerable as Romney. This is his no win scenario that he really didn't plan for. The only way newt loses is if he self destructs himself now (not too plausible, he's at home on the TV/Stage) or if someone has some really big bomb on him (slept with Nancy?)

Also: Circular firing squad. Between Romney, Paul, and Newt things are going to get interesting and they're going to damage each other. Then you got the doofus Perry thats just going to be lobbing cannonballs because he's to stupid to realize he was done before he even got started. He will burn bridges, because they made him look stoopid.
 
Kevin72
2011-12-08 10:09:48 PM
Shaggy_C: IoSaturnalia: Excuse me for asking, but are you gentlemen insane? Wanting Newt to be an "any given Tuesday" away from the presidency?

Exactly my thought. The American people are too stupid to be trusted to do the right thing. No matter how 'easy' the pollyannas on these boards might make the election sound, I don't want there to even be a chance of that fark winning.

When it was early 2000 I was for McCain and did vote for him in the by then useless primary because I could see a year away what a disaster a Bush presidency would be. That was McCain2000. Amongst the casualties of the Bush presidency was the Republican Party itself, having to contort itself to justify Bush, hence the nutjob McCain2008.
 
Guntram Shatterhand
2011-12-08 10:23:27 PM
The best part? The Republicans are doing Obama's hard work for him. They're just giving more ammo to each contender and have been doing so since the beginning of this year. Why bother running negative ads when the Republicans are slaughtering their own? If Newt wins, the moderates leave. If Mitt wins, the moderates and the Teabaggers leave.

What use is there for a Republican Party? None. None at all.
 
Goodfella
2011-12-08 11:16:05 PM
i40.tinypic.com

Once again, chessmasters Obama and Axelrod are 10 steps ahead of the comically corrupt GOP.
 
Mugato [TotalFark]
2011-12-09 12:05:59 AM
...and with all the GOP nominees sniping at each other like school girls, one will get the nomination and appoint another one as running mate and the same douchebags who were at each other's throats will be fellating each other for six months or so like they were always BFFs.
 
balloot
2011-12-09 01:19:36 AM
Shaggy_C: Corvus: Lets compare what they will do and what they will try to do:

So we either get Bush III or a Newtered Megalomaniac.

Decisions, decisions...

Anyone who refers to Obama as "Bush III" is an idiot. That's all.
 
James F. Campbell
2011-12-09 03:58:08 AM
hubiestubert: but no way in Hells he's getting in that locker room, because NO ONE wants to see his tubby butt nekkid.

And they say football doesn't have homoerotic undertones.
 
Alphax
2011-12-09 04:31:50 AM
So now every Republican candidate is on record with the terrible Ryan budget.
 
PonceAlyosha
2011-12-09 09:26:12 AM
GAT_00: Oh yeah, a Romney flip-flop. That's going to totally kill his chances! I mean just look at that...no. Well, how about that...no. That one time he...no. How about when...no. Oh, that time he flip-flopped on his flip-flop, oh man that totally destroyed him...no.

But yeah, this one will totally do him in. Guaranteed.

Mitt Romney has not held office since 2007. He already is done in, he just does not know it.
 
saddlesablazin
2011-12-09 09:53:52 AM
Diogenes: Somacandra: hubiestubert: It's not about what the Democrats want. It's the inexorable pull of the Primaries.

Precisely. Reagan's '11th commandment' was not something he followed all the time either. Witness his primary run at Gerald Ford in 1976.

He and Bush Sr. weren't great pals either, until the latter got veeped.

Yup. Voodoo economics anyone?
 
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