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(WDBJ 7 Roanoke) NewsFlash Update: 2 confirmed dead in separate shootings on Virginia Tech campus, shooter still at large   (wdbj7.com) divider line 914
    More: NewsFlash, Virginia Tech  
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31640 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Dec 2011 at 1:30 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2011-12-08 02:44:01 PM
Photos from Torgerson Bridge:

http://imgur.com/a/1dH9z
 
2011-12-08 02:44:11 PM

Muta: This wouldn't happen if there were more gun on campus.


Didn't the cop who got shot have a gun? Didn't seem to help him.
 
2011-12-08 02:44:50 PM
Anyone who wants to listen up on the radio just tune to the Tech campus station- WUVT-FM 90.7

/no link bc mobile posting sucks
 
2011-12-08 02:45:04 PM
Everyone wants updates!!!

img834.imageshack.us

/hope they can just shoot the farker...be done with it.
 
2011-12-08 02:45:18 PM

Leeds: The idea that you might face someone returning fire is a motivating factor that could keep people from shooting in the first place. Just like the death penalty is a motivating factor for not murdering people.


It's too bad that the death penalty is not 'a motivating factor for not murdering people.'

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penal t y-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates
 
2011-12-08 02:45:33 PM
What the shooter might look like...

0.tqn.com

To be fair...she did warn us...
 
2011-12-08 02:45:36 PM

Ironclad2: Angry Clemson fans?


why would Clemson fans be angry? They kicked VT twice this year.... More likely a despondent VT fan that drove the Charlotte, NC and saw them lose again to CU...

actually the reports I've read sound more like a cop had the unfortunate luck of pulling over somebody that had just committed a criminal act and he panicked.

Sympathies to the victim's families
 
2011-12-08 02:45:41 PM

no talent ass clown: Muta: This wouldn't happen if there were more gun on campus.

Didn't the cop who got shot have a gun? Didn't seem to help him.



Swapped it for some pepper stray.
 
2011-12-08 02:46:01 PM
Control-F "V-Tech just kicked in"

/i am disappoint
 
2011-12-08 02:46:20 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Like i said before, how do you know who to shoot when everyone around you suddenly starts shooting? It's easy to identify the gunman when he's the only one with a gun, but you screw that up completely when everyone has one.

/It ain't like the movies


Like others said before, post a farking citation where one of these perpetual bloodbaths were kicked off by armed bystanders. Until you can prove that it actually does happen you can take your "concern" over such a situation and shove it up your ass.
 
2011-12-08 02:47:13 PM
img31.imageshack.us

/hopefully they warned students earlier this time
 
2011-12-08 02:47:49 PM
Hell of a time to announce 2 hirings.

http://i.imgur.com/aBCou.jpg
 
2011-12-08 02:47:50 PM
Sooo...

What's going on in this thread?
 
2011-12-08 02:48:11 PM

Edwardo17: Or he's twelve. I mean, most of the shiat he's written so far seems like it was written by a petulant child, so I assume that's what he is.


I like you.
 
2011-12-08 02:48:30 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2011-12-08 02:48:40 PM

chairborne: moonscatter: Lsherm: moonscatter: I have a serious question for you concealed carry supporters. Why do you assume someone nearby having a concealed carry permit would make a difference? What obligation does the person with a CCW have to intervene and shoot back?

Not that I care about CC, but why assume they wouldn't? It just opens up a possibility that someone could intervene.

Of course, then we get into accidental shootings, the chance the CC holder shoots the wrong person or is shot by the cops, etc.

The accidental shooting thing I worry about or, honestly, the CCW being hurt or killed because as far as I know, CCW training does not include how to handle ilve shooting situations, such as are given to police officers and the military.

Having been in the military and gone shooting with a bunch of cops I think you're worrying overmuch. There are stats out there that compare the average number of shots fired per incidents that involve police and the number of shots fired per concealed carrier and if I recall the police don't come out at all favorably (sorry, I'm too lazy to google the citation for you). Just because you're in the military or are a cop doesn't mean you're a fan of firearms. A significant number of both only ever shoot the once or twice a year that they have to to qualify and no more, in comparison the typical concealed carrier shoots monthly and many are involved in shooting sports that are effective in training people to shoot moving targets under stress. On top of that the crime rate for people with concealed carry permits is actually lower than that of police officers, so there's that.

On top of that I always thought it was painfully ironic that when I was still in the military most of the time I was not allowed to carry and in fact worked in a huge "gun free zone". Frankly I wasn't all that surprised when the Ft Hood shooting happened, not long before I got to Ft Bragg a guy started shooting from a hill at a couple of hundred soldiers out doing morning PT and was taken down only because a group of SF guys happened to be running past and they took him down unarmed.

Concealed carry is legal in my state on campuses and you don't hear any problems about it, other than the fact that colleges would still expel you if they found out your were carrying legally which I think is a pretty hypocritical coming from institutions who take public money.

I understand that there might be valid concerns about safe weapons storage in a dorm environment but if you commute to school or live off campus and you can legally carry a firearm I think it should be illegal for a campus to expel you for it.


probably would come down to private property.

my brother comes to my house with a gun, he's not coming in, no matter that it's legal for him to have the gun. My house, my rules, blah blah. I go to his house, he can do what the fark he wants.

Much like everyone else, I've got personal experience coloring my opinion.
 
2011-12-08 02:48:53 PM

The Homer Tax: Leeds: The idea that you might face someone returning fire is a motivating factor that could keep people from shooting in the first place.

You mean like the cop who he shot and killed first?

Campus police are real police and they carry guns.


Actually, more like the bystander who is armed, saw you shoot the cop, and KNOWS who the guilty party is. The one who's already drawing down on you before the ringing in your ears from your own gunshot dies down. The one who's not going to yell, "Freeze!!!"
 
2011-12-08 02:49:05 PM
I have no problem with grown ups carrying on campus but not the students, because the students have yet to learn how to hold their liquor
 
2011-12-08 02:49:26 PM

Leeds: Relatively Obscure: Leeds: Interestingly, when I went to college we were allowed to have guns on campus.

We were allowed to have them anywhere on campus, but we had to check them in with Public Safety overnight if we lived in dorms.

So say I wanted to go shooting some Thursday, all I needed to do was go to Public Safety Thursday morning, check out the guns I wanted to use, then all I had to do was check them back in before I went to bed.

It was a simple system and it worked very well. And there were no (read that ZERO) shootings on campus the whole time I was there.

Virginia Tech has outlawed gun possession on campus, correct? I would urge them to change their policy since it seems that too many people are being killed because of it.

"Correlation vs Causation image"

Technically you are correct, good sir. It is not the fact that my University was gun friendly that kept people from shooting at us. But if someone was stupid enough to shoot at us the chances of one of us shooting back would have been high.

The idea that you might face someone returning fire is a motivating factor that could keep people from shooting in the first place. Just like the death penalty is a motivating factor for not murdering people.

Does the death penalty reduce the number of murders in the US? My money is on "yes" but I cannot say that for sure. Could the prospect of someone shooting back at you keep you from starting a gunfight? Again, my money is on "yes."


Given the US murder rate, absolute and per capita, either your first guess is wrong or the tendency toward violence is even worse than I realized.

That said, I would guess the odds of being executed does not enter into the mind of a given killer. If the person is planning the act, ze is likely more concerned with getting away with it than worrying whether the odds of getting a needle in the arm make the act worth hir's time. If the act is a spontaneous choice/act, consequences probably didn't even enter the perp's mind prior to the act being committed.

Facing return fire may concern someone planning an act, but again if the person is willing to kill they may worry more about cover or being fast on the trigger than backing down over the chance of getting shot at. Again in the case of spontaneous decisions to attack, consequences didn't enter the perp's brain before pulling the weapon.
 
2011-12-08 02:50:17 PM

Surool: Sooo...

What's going on in this thread?


We're debating whether or not VT's strict anti-gun policy is the reason this criminal was not put down after the initial murder-death-kill.

I personally think that the second person to die (the guy in the parking lot) would be alive today if VT hadn't criminalized having guns on campus. Others disagree.
 
2011-12-08 02:51:19 PM

FarkinSneakyBastage: Why Virginia Tech? WTF is going on at that school that either attracts or creates gun-wielding psychopaths?


The campus has a very prison-y feel to it, and the student body is mostly male. Females without mustaches are exceedingly rare. The dorms at Tech are earth's version of a filthy hell. The closest source for females is Radford, which is just up the road and has lots of females, but the problem is that they're all DIRTY whores. Truly, they have the highest STD rate of any school in the country. One of the admission requirements for Radford is having to fark 50 dudes by junior year of high school.

So that all might have something to do with it.
 
2011-12-08 02:51:39 PM

Leeds: I personally think that the second person to die (the guy in the parking lot) would be alive today if VT hadn't criminalized having guns on campus. Others disagree.


You're right, he/she might still be alive, but I bet a helluva lot more people would be dead in the years that there has been a gun ban.
 
2011-12-08 02:51:51 PM
itsfullofstars: "Based on what I'm hearing from the media, if you are carrying a weapon, wearing a badge and wearing anything more than a tie you are "SWAT"."

To be fair, when you start mixing in rifles and vests (and the odd helmet), I think it's reasonable to admit that the lines have been blurred.
Particularly in those smaller precincts where the line between "SWAT" and "not SWAT" is whether you past the qualification test and can check that gear out.

I don't mean to interrupt a good laugh at some journalists' expense, but sometimes there are good reasons for their confusion.
 
2011-12-08 02:52:03 PM
Radio: Lifeguard helicopter in bound, ETA 18 minutes.
 
2011-12-08 02:52:34 PM

Mayostard: Shots fired outside of Johnson Hall.

.

Pull out, I'm not on the pill.
 
2011-12-08 02:52:44 PM

The Homer Tax: Leeds: The idea that you might face someone returning fire is a motivating factor that could keep people from shooting in the first place.

You mean like the cop who he shot and killed first?

Campus police are real police and they carry guns.

Please stop using my University's tragedy to further your political causes.


Thanks, Homer.
 
2011-12-08 02:53:17 PM

Leeds: I personally think that the second person to die (the guy in the parking lot) would be alive today if VT hadn't criminalized having guns on campus. Others disagree.


I personally think that the second person was the gunman, in which case the outcome would still have been the same.
 
2011-12-08 02:53:41 PM
In other news, shooting people is now an elective @ Virginia Tech

/no idea how many credits
 
2011-12-08 02:53:49 PM
Collegiate Times: Senior VA Tech cops and university officials were all in DC today appealing fine for handling of 07 shooting.

Wow.
 
2011-12-08 02:53:56 PM

Leeds: Virginia Tech has outlawed gun possession on campus, correct? I would urge them to change their policy since it seems that too many people are being killed because of it.


The state of Virginia has concealed-carry legal preemption over every smaller political subdivision thereof. In layman's terms, no county, city, or campus in Virginia can "outlaw" or restrict concealed-carry in any way.

VT has made "no gun possession" a student policy, punishable with expulsion if violated. Any citizen with a CCW can walk through VT campus and carry perfectly legally.
 
2011-12-08 02:54:08 PM

chairborne: moonscatter: Lsherm: moonscatter: I have a serious question for you concealed carry supporters. Why do you assume someone nearby having a concealed carry permit would make a difference? What obligation does the person with a CCW have to intervene and shoot back?

Not that I care about CC, but why assume they wouldn't? It just opens up a possibility that someone could intervene.

Of course, then we get into accidental shootings, the chance the CC holder shoots the wrong person or is shot by the cops, etc.

The accidental shooting thing I worry about or, honestly, the CCW being hurt or killed because as far as I know, CCW training does not include how to handle ilve shooting situations, such as are given to police officers and the military.

Having been in the military and gone shooting with a bunch of cops I think you're worrying overmuch. There are stats out there that compare the average number of shots fired per incidents that involve police and the number of shots fired per concealed carrier and if I recall the police don't come out at all favorably (sorry, I'm too lazy to google the citation for you). Just because you're in the military or are a cop doesn't mean you're a fan of firearms. A significant number of both only ever shoot the once or twice a year that they have to to qualify and no more, in comparison the typical concealed carrier shoots monthly and many are involved in shooting sports that are effective in training people to shoot moving targets under stress. On top of that the crime rate for people with concealed carry permits is actually lower than that of police officers, so there's that.

On top of that I always thought it was painfully ironic that when I was still in the military most of the time I was not allowed to carry and in fact worked in a huge "gun free zone". Frankly I wasn't all that surprised when the Ft Hood shooting happened, not long before I got to Ft Bragg a guy started shooting from a hill at a couple of hundred soldiers out doing morning PT and was taken down only because a group of SF guys happened to be running past and they took him down unarmed.

Concealed carry is legal in my state on campuses and you don't hear any problems about it, other than the fact that colleges would still expel you if they found out your were carrying legally which I think is a pretty hypocritical coming from institutions who take public money.

I understand that there might be valid concerns about safe weapons storage in a dorm environment but if you commute to school or live off campus and you can legally carry a firearm I think it should be illegal for a campus to expel you for it.


Everyone has raised really good points and I appreciate it. I don't think there are necessarily easy answers on this issue. There are definite risks with either path.

Safe weapon storage is a good issue to think about - I do agree that if you live off campus or commute expelling you for having a CCW shouldn't be permitted. However, I can see why a school would prefer the gun remain locked in the car instead of brought into a classroom. I think it has to be up to each school in the end and it should be part of the calculus of choosing the school you wish to go to.

I wonder how the insurance costs for the schools figure into all of this as well
 
2011-12-08 02:54:20 PM
He will eventually stumble into the wrong area....I hope.

img243.imageshack.us
 
2011-12-08 02:54:29 PM

Leeds: Surool: Sooo...

What's going on in this thread?

We're debating whether or not VT's strict anti-gun policy is the reason this criminal was not put down after the initial murder-death-kill.

I personally think that the second person to die (the guy in the parking lot) would be alive today if VT hadn't criminalized having guns on campus. Others disagree.


I don't see how anyone can really have an opinion about it without knowing the facts about how each incident went down. If you do, you are just biased at this point.
 
2011-12-08 02:54:32 PM
Please let it be a member of a Mexican cartel or a BATFE agent that's doing the shooting.
Or at least an MS-13 or Mexican Mafia member using F&F guns.
 
2011-12-08 02:55:10 PM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Unless the news is a Very Serious Incident. In that case we moderate the discussion heavily and delete massive threadjacks.


FTFY

/attention whoring is attention whoring and that was attention whoring.
 
2011-12-08 02:55:24 PM

Leeds: Just like the death penalty is a motivating factor for not murdering people.

Does the death penalty reduce the number of murders in the US? My money is on "yes" but I cannot say that for sure.


See http://www.religioustolerance.org/execut4.htm#deter (new window) for lots of data regarding that thought.
 
2011-12-08 02:55:25 PM

HAMMERTOE: The Homer Tax: Leeds: The idea that you might face someone returning fire is a motivating factor that could keep people from shooting in the first place.

You mean like the cop who he shot and killed first?

Campus police are real police and they carry guns.

Actually, more like the bystander who is armed, saw you shoot the cop, and KNOWS who the guilty party is. The one who's already drawing down on you before the ringing in your ears from your own gunshot dies down. The one who's not going to yell, "Freeze!!!"


Yeah, see my previous post to figure out how farking slim the odds of that scenario are...
 
2011-12-08 02:55:33 PM

walkerhound: Leeds: I personally think that the second person to die (the guy in the parking lot) would be alive today if VT hadn't criminalized having guns on campus. Others disagree.

I personally think that the second person was the gunman, in which case the outcome would still have been the same.


I want to believe this, but why the massive man hunt if they already had a body matching the original shooter's description (which they reportedly have witnesses to)?
 
2011-12-08 02:55:57 PM

spunkymunky: Please let it be a member of a Mexican cartel or a BATFE agent that's doing the shooting.
Or at least an MS-13 or Mexican Mafia member using F&F guns.


... the fark?
 
2011-12-08 02:56:14 PM
You'll get over it.
 
2011-12-08 02:57:25 PM

mindflayer: Lifeguard helicopter in bound, ETA 18 minutes.


Is somebody drowning?
 
2011-12-08 02:58:16 PM
CollegiateTimes: Squires is still on lockdown. Water is being distributed to everyone here.
 
2011-12-08 02:58:28 PM

purecoda: I want to believe this, but why the massive man hunt if they already had a body matching the original shooter's description


Because in many cases "witnesses" identify the wrong person as the bad guy. You know better safe than sorry.
 
2011-12-08 02:58:35 PM

Alyna_jf: Leeds: I personally think that the second person to die (the guy in the parking lot) would be alive today if VT hadn't criminalized having guns on campus. Others disagree.

You're right, he/she might still be alive, but I bet a helluva lot more people would be dead in the years that there has been a gun ban.


I am certain, then, that you will be able to validate your speculation through reference to data collected from college campuses where the carrying of firearms is not prohibited. Please do so.
 
2011-12-08 02:58:45 PM
Looks like some matching the exact description spotted at "tennis courts". Not more specific than that.
 
2011-12-08 02:58:49 PM
Seriously?

I can't ctrl-f the thread since it's paginated on mobile.
 
2011-12-08 02:59:55 PM
I don't think that CCW will prevent things like this, but it's pretty damn obvious that bans aren't doing much to help either.

Nothing would stop something like this. The bans are in place to prevent accidental shootings, because most students haven't a clue how to properly handle a gun and they are at an age where having one is both cool and legal.

But studies have shown that CCW holders are more law abiding and more cognizant of not only laws involving use of force but of the technical issues-

Depending on your state. CCW permit tests need to be kept stringent.

Fallout Zone: Simple solution for everybody. Allow CC permits, but if a CC holder shoots the wrong person, charge them for murder.

lol, solution for everyone but the guy who died.

/stay safe VT people
 
2011-12-08 03:00:30 PM
Police tracking several white males on campus who may fit description. Unclear if ANY of them are actual suspect.

O_o
 
2011-12-08 03:00:34 PM
Also, I would advise anyone in Virginia right now to take off their hoodies. Lots of "possible suspects" walking around with hoodies heh.
 
2011-12-08 03:00:49 PM

YouWinAgainGravity: Marine1: To provide punishment.

Murder is necessarily bad. Some person who has gone through a training course and been approved by the state to carried a concealed weapon having a gun on them is not bad.

And punishment is why they have the gun ban, not because they think it wraps the school in a magical field that prevents all violence.

I've lived on that campus and seen the dumb things people do (especially with alcohol). Whether or not I agree with it, it can be reasonably argued that it's not exactly the worst policy.


Maybe they should ban alcohol on/near campus to keep underage kids from drinking.
If only there was a regulation requiring people to take classes in the responsible use of alcohol before they can purchase it to drink at home.
Thank FSM that nobody ever gets hurt or hurts others while under the influence of alcohol.
 
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