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(Wired) Stupid Could playing video games be a war crime? No, and you should feel bad for even asking that retarded question   (wired.com) divider line 52
More: Stupid, war crimes, ICRC, laws of war, international humanitarian law, Danger Room, shooter game, video games, International Criminal Court  
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2641 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Dec 2011 at 1:09 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



52 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2011-12-08 12:17:54 PM
Well, maybe I could see it as a war crime if your CO gave you a copy of Call of Duty and told you to play it, and regard it as the entirety of your training, disregarding all other laws and orders.

But of course that's not the case.
 
2011-12-08 01:11:30 PM
I've killed more pixelated nazis than the entire soviet army killed flesh and blood nazis.

And some nazi zombies too.

Lock me up. I'm a war criminal.
 
2011-12-08 01:13:15 PM
Duke Nukem Forever is definitely a violation of internation human rights treaties.
 
2011-12-08 01:16:41 PM
I don't see why video games get singled out for being an "interactive medium." If you buy a war game, you know you will be "choosing" to kill soldiers. You cant walk through call of duty and not see anyone die. Just like if you choose to watch Saving Private Ryan, you will watch people die. Just because you pick a slight variation on the way it happens I don't think that qualifies as a category changer. It's entertainment.
 
2011-12-08 01:17:31 PM
Jackson Herring: Duke Nukem Forever is definitely a violation of internation human rights treaties.

I've told the joke for years, it's my single sports joke, that Newt Gingrich would run for president again as soon as Duke Nukem came out and Brett Favre retired. Now that two of those are actually happening instead of everyone involved in development, being Newt Gingrich, or football in general hasn't died in a car crash I'm starting to think this might not be a joke so much as signs of the apocalypse.

I'm slowly becoming convinced about that 2012 thing, and I think we all knew Republicans would have a hand in it, deep down.
 
2011-12-08 01:18:00 PM
I can't wait until this is played out to it's logical conclusion, and Keifer Sutherland stands before the Hague.

/Yes, The Cowboy Way was that bad
 
2011-12-08 01:18:42 PM
ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2011-12-08 01:18:54 PM
I've got too many damn quests as it is to worry about some imperial war with the storm cloaks.
 
2011-12-08 01:21:31 PM
I was gonna stand before the Geneva Convention and tell them how stupid this was until I took an arrow in the knee.
 
2011-12-08 01:28:32 PM
Arrow in the knee jokes in December are a war crime
 
2011-12-08 01:36:26 PM
If we are going to talk about warcrimes I guess I should admit that in Red Alert 3 I used weapons of mass destruction against Japan multiple times and killed the Emperor Yoshiro.

Man I feel better now that I have that off my chest.
 
2011-12-08 01:38:32 PM
Should I mention that time I slaughtered everyone in Cheydenhall because I was bored while playing Oblivion?
 
2011-12-08 01:44:01 PM
So should I be concerned if I sometimes shoot bots in the back?
 
2011-12-08 01:48:43 PM
I'll admit to War(Craft) crimes. I killed over 5,000 Twilight's Hammer cultists this expansion alone... never mind what I did grinding Cent. Circle rep back in Vanilla... hell I killed bird people to get a flying stringray mount. According to my main Character's statistics page, she's killed over 400,000 things - from robots to the undead to humanoids. And I have 5 85's!
 
2011-12-08 01:49:17 PM
Can the international community do nothing to stop the heinous teabagging atrocities committed by the war criminal, MaDbonERz6969?

Oh, the humanity....
 
2011-12-08 01:49:48 PM
heinekenftw: Should I mention that time I slaughtered everyone in Cheydenhall because I was bored while playing Oblivion?

It was more satisfying in Morrowind, since if you killed vital NPCs, a message would pop up...

"With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed.
Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate,
or persist in the doomed world you have created."

That's when you know the world was screwed. So just destroy EVERYONE.
 
2011-12-08 01:50:43 PM
Are they alive? Do they have sentience? No?

Then STFU and GBTW. Sheesh.
 
2011-12-08 01:51:40 PM
saintstryfe: I'll admit to War(Craft) crimes. I killed over 5,000 Twilight's Hammer cultists this expansion alone... never mind what I did grinding Cent. Circle rep back in Vanilla... hell I killed bird people to get a flying stringray mount. According to my main Character's statistics page, she's killed over 400,000 things - from robots to the undead to humanoids. And I have 5 85's!

308,000 kills on mine.

Put me in chains. I'm almost as bad as Hitler.
 
2011-12-08 01:54:28 PM
saintstryfe: I'll admit to War(Craft) crimes. I killed over 5,000 Twilight's Hammer cultists this expansion alone... never mind what I did grinding Cent. Circle rep back in Vanilla... hell I killed bird people to get a flying stringray mount. According to my main Character's statistics page, she's killed over 400,000 things - from robots to the undead to humanoids. And I have 5 85's!

I think you need to try harder at being a warcriminal. When I was playing I tried to kill those orc children near that crossroads village. Couldn't lay a hand on them though so I made due killing quest givers and flight paths instead. That will teach those NPC noncombatants a lesson.
 
2011-12-08 02:06:18 PM
heinekenftw: 308,000 kills on mine.

I just tried to look up mine, and apparently battle.net doesn't have a statistics section.
 
2011-12-08 02:07:38 PM
Spawn camping violates the 4th Geneva Convention.
 
2011-12-08 02:09:11 PM
I'm reminded of these sorts of graphs:

tomgpalmer.com
bluntobject.files.wordpress.com

Yes, violent video games effect the brain. Yes, it has some 'desensitization' effects. What I dispute is the psychologist's assumptions that desensitization = less likely to intercede and/or more likely to actually commit (serious) violence.
 
2011-12-08 02:15:59 PM
Could playing video games be a war crime? Only if the person judging you is a total f*cking moron.
 
2011-12-08 02:23:33 PM
shpritz: Spawn camping violates the 4th Geneva Convention.

Well I'm screwed. I also target the medic typically.
 
2011-12-08 02:26:56 PM
heinekenftw: I've killed more pixelated nazis than the entire soviet army killed flesh and blood nazis.

And some nazi zombies too.

Lock me up. I'm a war criminal.


Robot nazis are the worst.
 
2011-12-08 02:27:50 PM
There are a whole lot of cheaters in Halo 3 who need to be locked up in dog cages, I know that much for sure.

Also a lot of extremely foul-mouthed 8-year-olds who need to eat a bar or two of soap.

/muttering
//muttering some more
///pounding fist into palm
 
2011-12-08 02:34:38 PM
I've used a BFG9000 to clear rooms of pixilated former humans, former sergeants, and imps. I killed the leaders of the Tribunal Temple because I disagreed with their religion, and then I went on a quest to wipe the Indorills out in Mournhold and Vvardenfell.

Hey, Hague:

data.whicdn.com
 
2011-12-08 02:41:43 PM
Sure, you could consider it a war crime, I guess. While you're at it, how about paying compensation for every time a player is shot or killed in game.
 
2011-12-08 02:47:56 PM
So, having read the article:

ICRC: "Training people to commit war crimes is not okay, no matter what."

Sensationalist dickwad: "What if they were using virtual training?"

ICRC: "Irrelevant, it's the training that's the problem, not the medium."

SD: "SO YOU'RE SAYING YOU WANT TO MAKE VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES A WAR CRIME?!"

ICRC: "What the fark are you talking about? No, that is not what I said, idiot."

SD: "THEY WANT TO MAKE VIDEO GAMES WAR CRIMES!1"
 
2011-12-08 02:50:52 PM
This is definitely a war crime.....but not for the reasons mentioned in the article.

workinghack.com
 
2011-12-08 02:54:48 PM
A Dark Evil Omen: So, having read the article:
ICRC: "Training people to commit war crimes is not okay, no matter what."
Sensationalist dickwad: "What if they were using virtual training?"
ICRC: "Irrelevant, it's the training that's the problem, not the medium."
SD: "SO YOU'RE SAYING YOU WANT TO MAKE VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES A WAR CRIME?!"
ICRC: "What the fark are you talking about? No, that is not what I said, idiot."
SD: "THEY WANT TO MAKE VIDEO GAMES WAR CRIMES!1"


Precisely.
 
2011-12-08 02:57:19 PM
Let's not forget all the virtual pollution created in games like Minecraft. I'm sure there are some players well out of line with the Kyoto Protocol. Perhaps players (looking at you, SoL, with your 128 furnaces) should be required to make sure their furnaces are emitting too much virtual smog. Notch should probably introduce virtual retrofits for furnaces to help reduce the amount of CO2 escaping. And perhaps some more environmentally friendly forms of energy production should be required; wind and water turbines come to mind. Perhaps players should have to buy and sell carbon credits if they wish to use their furnaces. Too long have the regressive environmental policies in Minecraft been allowed to exist. It is time for the U.N. to step in and encourage Majong to control their virtual carbon footprint.
 
2011-12-08 02:57:42 PM
Lock James Earl Jones up for destroying Aalderan. Or George Lucas.
 
2011-12-08 03:07:35 PM
Jackson Herring: heinekenftw: 308,000 kills on mine.

I just tried to look up mine, and apparently battle.net doesn't have a statistics section.


Look up your character in the Armory, click Achievements against the left side, then the Statistics tab, and then kills along the left.

i.imgur.com

/I love transmogrification
//I can't believe I'm the only Shaman wearing T2 around though... so many are still wearing T11.
 
2011-12-08 03:23:48 PM
saintstryfe: Look up your character in the Armory, click Achievements against the left side, then the Statistics tab, and then kills along the left.

Hah. I knew it was there somewhere! Less than 300k... More than I expected for a healer honestly.
 
2011-12-08 03:24:46 PM
saintstryfe: Jackson Herring: heinekenftw: 308,000 kills on mine.

I just tried to look up mine, and apparently battle.net doesn't have a statistics section.

Look up your character in the Armory, click Achievements against the left side, then the Statistics tab, and then kills along the left.

[i.imgur.com image 640x256]

/I love transmogrification
//I can't believe I'm the only Shaman wearing T2 around though... so many are still wearing T11.


Ew. Alliance. That's a warcrime.
 
2011-12-08 03:30:13 PM
heinekenftw: Ew. Alliance. That's a warcrime.

The only crimes were the ones the Orcs cruely vindicated on the Human and Draenei races, Horde scum.

/Don't get me going here, I will argue this point like how Ghostcrawler nerfs ret pallies: TO THE GROUND.
 
2011-12-08 03:37:03 PM
Yeah, let's play wholesome games like SimCity.
What's that? Plebeians complaining about taxes? Eat hell-fire you lazy scum.
 
2011-12-08 04:42:55 PM
I like to drag preachers behind my horse in Red Dead Redemption. Is that wrong? Should I not do that?
 
2011-12-08 05:18:27 PM
cfffffgagffacfacfacfacfacccccfcaaffff: Yeah, let's play wholesome games like SimCity.
What's that? Plebeians complaining about taxes? Eat hell-fire you lazy scum.


This is a good point, -- in Civ 4 the easiest way to make people happy in a city is to whip them or starve them down to a smaller size.
 
2011-12-08 05:24:10 PM
HelmetTesterTJ: Let's not forget all the virtual pollution created in games like Minecraft. I'm sure there are some players well out of line with the Kyoto Protocol. Perhaps players (looking at you, SoL, with your 128 furnaces) should be required to make sure their furnaces are emitting too much virtual smog. Notch should probably introduce virtual retrofits for furnaces to help reduce the amount of CO2 escaping. And perhaps some more environmentally friendly forms of energy production should be required; wind and water turbines come to mind. Perhaps players should have to buy and sell carbon credits if they wish to use their furnaces. Too long have the regressive environmental policies in Minecraft been allowed to exist. It is time for the U.N. to step in and encourage Majong to control their virtual carbon footprint.


There's a mod for that.
Link (new window)
 
2011-12-08 05:28:43 PM
www.nerdgroupies.com

YOUR QUESTION IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD!
 
2011-12-08 06:27:13 PM
Firethorn: I'm reminded of these sorts of graphs:

Can I see what happened to those statistics after 2004?

See, while I don't think video games lead to violent crime, I don't think they're that much of a deterrent on it either. Typically, in criminal statistics the largest factor tends to be demographics. Since violent crime is generally committed by 18-24 males, the decline of statistics are, more or less, typically a function of there being less of them around. The years from 96-04 are declinations in crime across the board not because of video games, but because Generation-X had grown up and the Millenials were too young. I'm willing to suspect that after 2005 crime rates began to steadily rise again because the children of the boomers, the next demographic bulge, the Millenials, born 82-99 with a peak years of 87-92, are entering their "crime committing" years and all predictive indicators suggest a crime statistics spike.

I could be wrong, however. As a fallback theory, I think the internet has something to do with it too. A lot of crime results simply from boredom/idleness. Internet keeps people busy and occupied like never before.
 
2011-12-08 07:15:17 PM
I guess I'm doubly screwed for liking to shoot people in the back of the head from a sniper's nest then...
 
2011-12-08 07:16:44 PM
I've slaughtered entire towns of innocent villagers as the women screamed, cannonaded churches and houses, and skewered fleeing gold miners with Horse Lancers.

But in my defense, other world leaders didn't even make a peep at my barbarity.
 
2011-12-08 10:14:07 PM
I'm not commenting on this article until we hear Commander Shepherd's testimony.
 
2011-12-09 12:27:44 AM
Ishkur: Firethorn: I'm reminded of these sorts of graphs:

Can I see what happened to those statistics after 2004?

See, while I don't think video games lead to violent crime, I don't think they're that much of a deterrent on it either. Typically, in criminal statistics the largest factor tends to be demographics. Since violent crime is generally committed by 18-24 males, the decline of statistics are, more or less, typically a function of there being less of them around. The years from 96-04 are declinations in crime across the board not because of video games, but because Generation-X had grown up and the Millenials were too young. I'm willing to suspect that after 2005 crime rates began to steadily rise again because the children of the boomers, the next demographic bulge, the Millenials, born 82-99 with a peak years of 87-92, are entering their "crime committing" years and all predictive indicators suggest a crime statistics spike.

I could be wrong, however. As a fallback theory, I think the internet has something to do with it too. A lot of crime results simply from boredom/idleness. Internet keeps people busy and occupied like never before.


I'm partial to the Freakonomics argument - readily available abortions meant fewer unwanted/unsupportable kids, leading to less crime.

I don't think violent video games lead to more violent crime. I do, on the other hand, think they lead to a less empathic and more dickish society.
 
2011-12-09 04:15:13 AM
AnotherDisillusionedCollegeStudent:
I don't think violent video games lead to more violent crime. I do, on the other hand, think they lead to a less empathic and more dickish society.


I don't see that. Take your average internet dick, and in real life, faced with real people, they don't tend to be dicks.
Allow them to run around with body/face/voice disguises, then yep, I think society would be much worse off. Which would lead, in my head, to more road rage, but not more happy-slapping.
 
2011-12-09 09:07:45 AM
heinekenftw: I've killed more pixelated nazis than the entire soviet army killed flesh and blood nazis.

And some nazi zombies too.

Lock me up. I'm a war criminal.


Jeeze, I was SO addicted to "Company of Heroes" for a while, I must be up there on that list with you.

/and there's just something immensely satisfying about nuking the Aztecs in Civ.
 
2011-12-09 09:22:16 AM
I've been melting people alive with guns that shoot acid in Borderlands for the last six hours just to listen to them scream, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies...

images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
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