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(CNN)   Contrary to popular belief, atheists do take their families to church. "We thought that these individuals might be less inclined to introduce their children to religious traditions, but we found the exact opposite to be true"   (religion.blogs.cnn.com ) divider line 522
    More: Interesting, models of scientific inquiry, University at Buffalo, Rice University  
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6338 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Dec 2011 at 9:46 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-12-07 10:14:46 AM  

capt.hollister: Wasn't there a survey a while ago that concluded that atheists usually know more about religion than believers ?


That's why they're atheists.
 
2011-12-07 10:14:48 AM  
I've been an atheist since I was 8, and belonged to churches much of that time that didn't require you to profess a creed. Churches, at least free-thinking liberal churches, do a lot of good and no harm that I can see. What do atheist groups do, other than troll Christians?
 
2011-12-07 10:15:23 AM  

buckler: Huh. Though I'm an atheist, I sometimes attend the Unitarian Universalist church. Only churchgoing atheist I know.


My atheist parents raised me Unitarian & they still go to church even after I moved out. I just tell most people I'm UU & if they ask about the God thing, I'll tell them I'm atheist... then I have to explain that UUs don't give a crap what you believe.
 
2011-12-07 10:15:33 AM  
There is no better way to create a Atheist, then to have someone read the holy bible from start to finish.

/front to back, and listened to the audiobook.
//now im a damn double Atheist.
 
2011-12-07 10:16:31 AM  
Didn't we do this same thread a few days ago?
 
2011-12-07 10:16:48 AM  

HAMMERTOE: "God just spoke to me. He demands that I take my son out into the field and kill him today, right after church." Are you going to let him take that boy home 20 minutes later?


It seems the magnitude of god's demands have diminished in proportion to the power of his miracles. In the old days it was all "Abraham, murder your son Issac for me" and all the while he was parting seas and changing sticks to snakes, etc.

So, now that the miracles are just "here's a blurry image burnt into your toast", the demands are just "go to church and give me money". No more requests to murder your own children.

Everything has been dialed back a few levels.
 
2011-12-07 10:17:15 AM  

coeyagi: soakitincider: hiat

(Laughs at you.)

There are plenty of Christian majority nations that are shiatholes too (i.e., most of subsaharan Africa).


africa has a large quantity of animism/islam in its population mix as well, not to mention all of the tribal nonsense they constantly push on eachother. they tend to not act as christians at the macro level.
 
2011-12-07 10:17:17 AM  

cherryl taggart: Didn't we do this same thread a few days ago?


Hell, we do this thread about once every two weeks. Maybe more often, since I don't keep track. :)
 
2011-12-07 10:18:38 AM  
Vacation bible school=Free summer camp. Even atheists want a week away from the kids in the summer.
 
2011-12-07 10:18:45 AM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: My daughter is three, and pretty soon she's going to start asking questions about who the baby in the Christmas carols is. How do you explain that to a three-year-old?


Easy. Just remember Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny as well. Then, when she gets older and more able to understand the concept of "rationalization" and personally deal with the idea of death, you can explain to her about how people feel the need to rationalize to their selves this grand myth to lessen their fear of death.
 
2011-12-07 10:19:09 AM  

helper_monkey: They are very open about the fact that they don't believe in God, and it's not a big deal. They are great people and bring excellent discussion to the Sunday school classes.


:-)

Sounds like a wonderful church community.

/ Love traditional choral (religious) christmas music. Very warm, very rich.
// Oooh! In fact, it's time to get my CDs out. Been waiting for this all year!
 
2011-12-07 10:19:44 AM  

Farking Canuck: It seems the magnitude of god's demands have diminished in proportion to the power of his miracles. In the old days it was all "Abraham, murder your son Issac for me" and all the while he was parting seas and changing sticks to snakes, etc.

So, now that the miracles are just "here's a blurry image burnt into your toast", the demands are just "go to church and give me money". No more requests to murder your own children.


Funny how all this should happen before the advent of forensic science, isn't it?
 
2011-12-07 10:21:50 AM  
I forget what its called exactly, but there is a kind of church with no religion in it. Yes you heard me correctly. Its by design. It offers all the tribal sense of community, and good works with none of the dogma. The have seasonal festivals, weekly meetings and guest speakers, they do lots of charity work, help its members in times of trouble.

I was sad to find there was not one in my local area. I wish I could recall what they are called, I would begin searching again.
 
2011-12-07 10:22:06 AM  

MooseUpNorth: / Love traditional choral (religious) christmas music. Very warm, very rich.


Absolutely. One of the major gifts of religion to humanity. A miracle, if you will. :)
 
2011-12-07 10:22:59 AM  
I don't mind exposing my daughter to various churches. It takes the mystery out of the buildings and reveals the extreme derp inside. The goal of any atheist parent should be to influence their child's beliefs as little as possible, and instead let reason be the guide. I guarantee, a child taught to rely on their own reasoning abilities, rather than outside influence, will always end up an atheist.
 
2011-12-07 10:23:55 AM  

Farking Canuck: It seems the magnitude of god's demands have diminished in proportion to the power of his miracles. In the old days it was all "Abraham, murder your son Issac for me" and all the while he was parting seas and changing sticks to snakes, etc.


It has been argued that the Big G of the Old Testament was adolescent and has now matured. If you believe he is a real force, then he's gotten used to dealing with imperfect humans. If you don't believe in him, then you can still argue that our view of him has refined as we have matured as a species.
 
2011-12-07 10:24:31 AM  

FormlessOne: WellBelowAverage: urban.derelict: LL316: Wow, condescending athiests. Who'd have thunk it?

Wasn't condescending. I wish I could find 'blind faith' in fairy tales w/happy endings, beer fountains, free boobies for all. Look at you morons (not you personally but anyone who subscribes to blind faith in the supernatural) it's impossible NOT to be condescending because you don't have any facts at all, just wishful thinking. Morons like Michelle Bachmann get into office because of you blithering retards.

It isn't "blind faith" or :religious wishful thinking. Christianity: Bolted to Reality (new window)

Faith and Wishing (new window)

The irony of this post is that both links go to "Stand To Reason", a web site that purportedly "equips Christian ambassadors with knowledge, wisdom, and character." Any site that has to claim the following should be taken as suspect when asking whether Christianity is "bolted to reality":

1. What is our principle activity? Training
2. Who do we train? Christians
3. What do we train them to do? Think clearly and make a defense
4. What is the manner in which they do this? Intellectually fair, gracious and incisive
5. What will the scope of our defense? The doctrines and ethics of classical Christianity
6. Where is this defense made? The public square

If God exists, he doesn't need "defense." If He doesn't exist, said "defense" is wasted. So, why provide such "defense?" Because it's the Church, not their deity, with their immense business requirements and global reach, that needs "defense."

We will, eventually, grow out of religion. It's already started.


"Defense" is used as in Apologetics, i.e. from the Greek speaking in defense of a philosophical position.through the use of reason.

If you just want to through out slogans and insults then fine, go nuts, but I thought I owed you an explanation of how the word is used in the context of that website and the subject we're talking about.
 
2011-12-07 10:24:57 AM  
I hope this won't lead to christians going to places where atheists are!
 
2011-12-07 10:25:09 AM  

Tendancy to over-dew it: As an atheist and a parent, I will encourage my child to explore/investigate religion. My wife (who's Catholic) and I both agree that when she's old enough to demonstrate that she can think for herself then she should be exposed to both sides of the argument, so she can have as much info as possible about the subject.


It's called "teach the controversy", and it's a cop-out IMO. Do you also encourage the local school board to inject creationism into the biology classroom on the basis that the kids are smart enough to figure out which approach is more likely to be true? If it's good for one it's good for the other.

I hope this doesn't come off as too dickish, but I cringe every time I hear this argument.
 
2011-12-07 10:25:46 AM  

Texmaniac: I'm actually worshipped by people so I'm getting a kick out of this..........


You too, huh?
It's tough when my throngs of worshippers get in my way.
 
2011-12-07 10:26:16 AM  

patentguy: buckler: Huh. Though I'm an atheist, I sometimes attend the Unitarian Universalist church. Only churchgoing atheist I know.

You go to a UU church and are the only churchgoing atheist you know? The UU churches I've attended are chock full of atheists.


In general company, I mean...always freaks people out.
 
2011-12-07 10:27:46 AM  

PsiChi: And, no, morons, I don't think God has arms


Is God a double amputee?
 
2011-12-07 10:28:30 AM  
If I was home, I would take my daughter for the Christmas Eve service as part of the holiday. Since I am not home, I won't; I just don't care enough.My wife bought a book with Jesus in it but it's muted and rather nice.

I'm not going to force it on her, then again I'm not going to force her away. I like Christmas for a number of reasons. I see no problem with enjoying the season in my own way as long as others let me be.
 
2011-12-07 10:28:55 AM  
By Dan Merica, CNN

WHY DOES DAN MERICA HATE AMERICA?!
 
2011-12-07 10:29:12 AM  

StoneColdAtheist: Tendancy to over-dew it: As an atheist and a parent, I will encourage my child to explore/investigate religion. My wife (who's Catholic) and I both agree that when she's old enough to demonstrate that she can think for herself then she should be exposed to both sides of the argument, so she can have as much info as possible about the subject.

It's called "teach the controversy", and it's a cop-out IMO. Do you also encourage the local school board to inject creationism into the biology classroom on the basis that the kids are smart enough to figure out which approach is more likely to be true? If it's good for one it's good for the other.

I hope this doesn't come off as too dickish, but I cringe every time I hear this argument.


Eh. I think of it as more presenting the information when the child is mature enough to at least understand it. You don't present calculus to a six year old, either. Religion and faith and psychology are so complex and complicated that trying to present them fairly to a child is... difficult.

Currently to our six year old, God is our co-worker's friend, who he REALLY likes. :P
 
2011-12-07 10:29:37 AM  

soakitincider: it's good to have choices; in countries that aren't predominantly christian, there would be no tolerance for atheism. Also, non-christian majority nations tend to be shiatholes.


There are plenty of Christians in the U.S. who believe that the U.S. should have no tolerance for atheism and are actively working to make that happen.
 
2011-12-07 10:30:17 AM  

Aidan: It has been argued that the Big G of the Old Testament was adolescent and has now matured. If you believe he is a real force, then he's gotten used to dealing with imperfect humans. If you don't believe in him, then you can still argue that our view of him has refined as we have matured as a species.


Doesn't change the fact that their "god's" laws were savage, imperfect, unenlightened, and needed to be revised by their messiah. This is highly indicative of being written by a less-than-perfect being, which makes their holy book, upon which all of their religion is based, completely bullshiat.

Funny how their "god" had to become more civilized to match humanity's progress. One would think that an all-perfect being would get it right the first time. And just why was a demon admitted into "paradise" anyway?
 
2011-12-07 10:30:40 AM  

Raharu: I forget what its called exactly, but there is a kind of church with no religion in it. Yes you heard me correctly. Its by design. It offers all the tribal sense of community, and good works with none of the dogma. The have seasonal festivals, weekly meetings and guest speakers, they do lots of charity work, help its members in times of trouble.

I was sad to find there was not one in my local area. I wish I could recall what they are called, I would begin searching again.


I think it's called a community center. Most towns have them.
 
2011-12-07 10:31:01 AM  

OtherBrotherDarryl: If my son wanted to start going to church, I'd take him. Frankly, I'm jealous of those who find their answers in religion. But I'm also jealous of how happy my dog gets from a simple $1.99 chew toy.


This.
 
2011-12-07 10:32:14 AM  

Aidan: Farking Canuck: It seems the magnitude of god's demands have diminished in proportion to the power of his miracles. In the old days it was all "Abraham, murder your son Issac for me" and all the while he was parting seas and changing sticks to snakes, etc.

It has been argued that the Big G of the Old Testament was adolescent and has now matured. If you believe he is a real force, then he's gotten used to dealing with imperfect humans. If you don't believe in him, then you can still argue that our view of him has refined as we have matured as a species.


That's an interesting argument, but I'd expect one would have a hard time selling that past a surface examination. It kinda portrays this god as Q, and very much diminished from the eternal perfection that is typically claimed.

At the same time, superficially, it somewhat gets around the traditional old-testament/new-testament hand-waving.
 
2011-12-07 10:33:21 AM  
Believing you know the truth about whether there is something or not is just silly.


htomc:

I have never once seen a believer bring -their- children to the local atheists meetings, to educate their children on that perspective.


Atheists have meetings? Do they all just sit around in silence?
 
2011-12-07 10:33:32 AM  

PsiChi: God - the real God, not the blood-thirsty, megalomaniac in the Old Testament - loves atheists, and will wait for them with open arms for as long as it takes.

And, no, morons, I don't think God has arms.


Heh, I used to know an Orthodox Christian priest. He took a live and let live approach to other beliefs and we'd frequently debate metaphysics, and the role of religion in society. He was fond to telling me that "Even though you don't believe in God, he still believes in you".

While I'm not likely to buy into religion, the softer approach stands the best chance of converting me.
 
2011-12-07 10:34:25 AM  
I think this is a great idea.

First, they do a great service when the holy water starts boiling when they walk by, nicely sanitized!

Second, I enjoy going to services at the local American Athiest Temple. They are bit frothy at the mouth, but at the same time deep down they are probably good folks.
 
2011-12-07 10:34:31 AM  

mbillips: I've been an atheist since I was 8, and belonged to churches much of that time that didn't require you to profess a creed. Churches, at least free-thinking liberal churches, do a lot of good and no harm that I can see. What do atheist groups do, other than troll Christians?


This. I hesitate to call myself an atheist (for fear it will spark the tired "agnostics are atheists!" debate), primarily because my closest friends are dyed in the wool atheists and can be insufferable about it. One of them up until 5 years ago was a foot-washing baptist and did a 180 on the whole god thing, so he is still kind of in the "angry atheist" phase. He wanted me to go with him to some atheist group meetings in the twin cities and I had to decline because I knew most of them would be dominated by people still in the angry stage. Those people tend not to be terribly constructive, unfortunately.

However, I checked into a Universalist church near my home. these people seem more my speed. For example: "Since 2002 our minister, Victoria Safford, has refused to sign marriage certificates for heterosexual couples until it is legal for her to sign them for all couples." Not gay myself, but taking a stance for this (and other) social justice issues is a big win in my book.

I'm going to see if I can convince recovering-baptist friend to go with me because neither of us has ever been to one.
 
2011-12-07 10:35:02 AM  

stevetherobot: soakitincider: it's good to have choices; in countries that aren't predominantly christian, there would be no tolerance for atheism. Also, non-christian majority nations tend to be shiatholes.

There are plenty of Christians in the U.S. who believe that the U.S. should have no tolerance for atheism and are actively working to make that happen.


The opposite is also true.

HAMMERTOE: Aidan: It has been argued that the Big G of the Old Testament was adolescent and has now matured. If you believe he is a real force, then he's gotten used to dealing with imperfect humans. If you don't believe in him, then you can still argue that our view of him has refined as we have matured as a species.

Doesn't change the fact that their "god's" laws were savage, imperfect, unenlightened, and needed to be revised by their messiah. This is highly indicative of being written by a less-than-perfect being, which makes their holy book, upon which all of their religion is based, completely bullshiat.

Funny how their "god" had to become more civilized to match humanity's progress. One would think that an all-perfect being would get it right the first time. And just why was a demon admitted into "paradise" anyway?


It's not about getting it right the first time. It's about giving his creation free will. And since people were/are not perfect, they messed it all up from the beginning.

As for Satan, only God is perfect, not the angels. Perfection is not required to get into heaven.
 
2011-12-07 10:35:04 AM  

HAMMERTOE: Doesn't change the fact that their "god's" laws were savage, imperfect, unenlightened, and needed to be revised by their messiah. This is highly indicative of being written by a less-than-perfect being, which makes their holy book, upon which all of their religion is based, completely bullshiat.


Yeah, but it's also ridiculous to discuss "their god" as though it had nothing to do with us. Hate to break it to you, but you and I (provided you're at least marginally European) are descended from MANY generations of people who believed in that god. To ignore that is to claim that this is "their earth" as well. Technically true, but useless in terms of moving forward. Exclusivity is a tool commonly used by proponents of religion and should not be used by opponents of it without compelling need.
 
2011-12-07 10:35:08 AM  
My parents didn't take me to church, but they let me go with my friends (after sleepovers, vacation Bible school). Every time, I was singled out and judged as the ignorant heathen child. I took it on myself to learn the backstory to the major religions because it seemed like a big gap in my cultural knowledge. Studying it objectively on my own made me realize just how alike they all were. I remember clearly coming to the conclusion that hey, this is just like those Greek myths I used to read, except that people still think they're true. Well, they're not, but give it a few thousand years and people will figure that out. Now I'm one of those annoying atheists who knows more about your religion than you do.
 
2011-12-07 10:35:10 AM  

soakitincider: it's good to have choices; in countries that aren't predominantly christian, there would be no tolerance for atheism. Also, non-christian majority nations tend to be shiatholes.


Somebody's already forgotten history. Clue: Salem witch-trials. See also: The Inquisition.
 
2011-12-07 10:35:39 AM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: Yeah, that's what we're looking to do. My daughter is three, and pretty soon she's going to start asking questions about who the baby in the Christmas carols is. How do you explain that to a three-year-old?


Magic baby.

Until it can be explained why some murder in the magic baby's name I suggest that this answers your, difficult, question.

Remember to teach that magic is make-believe and some like to pretend.
 
2011-12-07 10:35:49 AM  

FormlessOne: Tyrone Slothrop: "So the Christian worldview has one big bolt to reality. We can explain the non-physical source of all physical things. "

No you can't. Saying "I don't know, therefore God" is not an explanation, it's an excuse.

And, understand - that's their "defense". The site is focused on providing an "intellectually fair, gracious and incisive" set of defensive articles that ultimately boil down to that very point - the entire site is intellectually dishonest.


Since you were able to read and understand all of the articles on that site since your last post, here's another one.

Existence of God (new window)
 
2011-12-07 10:36:38 AM  

stevetherobot: There are plenty of Christians in the U.S. who believe that the U.S. should have no tolerance for atheism and are actively working to make that happen.


There are plenty of Atheists in the U.S. who believe that the U.S. should have no tolerance for religion and are actively working to make that happen
 
2011-12-07 10:38:01 AM  
bsharitt:

Sure, why not? Exposure to religion helped make me an atheist more than anything.

Exposure to life did that for me. I was taught God is loving, kind and merciful, but when I needed love, kindness and mercy -- and could get it from no adult I knew -- I prayed and prayed and prayed and got no answer. In fact things got worse. That was when I started thinking I might have been fed a lot of bullshiat.
 
2011-12-07 10:38:43 AM  

StoneColdAtheist: It's called "teach the controversy", and it's a cop-out IMO. Do you also encourage the local school board to inject creationism into the biology classroom on the basis that the kids are smart enough to figure out which approach is more likely to be true? If it's good for one it's good for the other.


Notwithstanding that creationism isn't a scientific theory, biology does teach Lamarckianism, Darwinian natural selection, and punctuated equilibrium.
 
2011-12-07 10:39:51 AM  

PYROY: Believing you know the truth about whether there is something or not is just silly.


htomc:

I have never once seen a believer bring -their- children to the local atheists meetings, to educate their children on that perspective.

Atheists have meetings? Do they all just sit around in silence?


You're thinking of Quakers.
 
2011-12-07 10:39:53 AM  
Why would an atheist take their kids to church?
 
2011-12-07 10:40:11 AM  
I don't consider myself an atheist, because to me that implies a belief that God doesn't exist. I simply lack belief in God or the supernatural. I have no problem going to church (other than I find it boring) or participating in religious rituals or having my wife and children go to church. It is my belief that humans are hard wired for religion (which means that my wiring is messed up) and it would be foolish to ignore that. I would be happy if they decide it isn't for them, but I'll be equally happy if they choose to believe so long as they don't get involved in the destructive or hateful segments of religion.

Christianity by itself is no worse than other religions* and it is the dominant religion in my family and my culture so that's what I go with.

*Like any religion it can be used for evil.
 
2011-12-07 10:40:16 AM  

HAMMERTOE: soakitincider: it's good to have choices; in countries that aren't predominantly christian, there would be no tolerance for atheism. Also, non-christian majority nations tend to be shiatholes.

Somebody's already forgotten history. Clue: Salem witch-trials. See also: The Inquisition.


jesus never said to hunt witches or forcefully convert people, so those who did were not acting in any christian manner, but working to serve their own ends under the guise of christianity. just because a person says they are something does not make them that thing.
 
2011-12-07 10:40:23 AM  
Wasn't this article done already, this is a repeat

Link (new window)
 
2011-12-07 10:41:02 AM  
Took my kid to church a handful of times when she was little because I had to establish church membership for enrollment in their great daycare. For about 3 weeks she started going to this new agey church right by our neighborhood because they had doughnuts and hot chocolate before services. Other that that she's been with me and my girlfriend to Greek orthodox services a few times.
 
2011-12-07 10:41:33 AM  
Dear Christians:

We're all atheists. It's just that I believe in one less god than you.



/Zeus' popularity continues to drop
 
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