Suh's joyride through Portland should be far more worrysome than a guy touching an official.

Well, that, and the general attitude of Lions players.

How do they feel now, after seeing SF continue to dominate their schedule (whether or not it is that good) as they continue to falter. Was it worth getting in Harbaugh's face?

...and per Twitter, Witnesses say Shu lied about car crash (new window)

/So Suh me

(I know it was done in a thread the other day, but I couldn't help it.)

Peter von Nostrand: This team is headed for a melt down

Your post mysteriously appeared a month after you posted it.

I always thought that contact with the ref was an automatic ejection. Even if it's not, pushing a ref certainly should be.

Maybe some of those calls would have gone our way if everyone including the NFL weren't still so sensitive about Katrina. Thanks a lot, Bin Laden.

If the league thinks that that relatively incidental contact with the ref is worth a suspension, then the league should hand down a suspension. If not, its really not the Jets job to do that.

Fines for selfishness and stupidity - pour encourager les autres - I support wholeheartedly.

gwowen: If the league thinks that that relatively incidental contact with the ref is worth a suspension, then the league should hand down a suspension. If not, its really not the Jets job to do that.

Fines for selfishness and stupidity - pour encourager les autres - I support wholeheartedly.

Yes I think we can all agree it's not the Jets job.

Also Suh wasn't lying about the car accident, he really did only step on the accelerator as he was trying to regain his balance. Sad story about the 14 year old he ran over though.

in reference to NorCalLos' link, on the suh-crash...
what an absurdly self aggrandizing story... "pictures, pictures you'll see only on newschannel 4"

who farking cares? yes, of course the bastard wasn't going "25 mph"---that doesn't tend to rip the wheels off your car and spin it around a few times...

"i feel that the police have a responsibility to make sure that people who endanger the lives of others are held accountable"

while this is true, there's also something to be said for not riding in the car of people who endanger the lives of others. i guess she was trying don corleone's advice---friends close, enemies closer...

Peter von Nostrand: This team is headed for a melt down

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''



/That started a few week back

Cyberluddite: the ref put his hand on the player first, and sort of pushed him back--the player then reacted by putting his hand on the ref

the rules... you don't understand them.

They lost the game, they didn't do anything bad enough to warrant a suspension (the ref push wasn't like an Orlando Brown push).

Now if they asked for some time off to see a sick relative, then end up being arrested for putting a gun to someone's head, now then they can be benched for one set of downs.

/farking Hue Jackson

No discipline whatsoever.

They're like the Saints with Haslett running the team ten years ago.... Still, I'd wager they'll be hell season after next.

tallguywithglasseson: it's not even an ejection,

It's the discretion of the ref in question, but they can boot you for it, even for just a nudge.

FTA: Schwartz: The official on the sidelines said, 'Hey look, I stepped in between two players and he didn't know that was me.'

The ref didn't see fit for it to be an ejection. He could of if he wanted to, sure, but from the sounds of it the ref forgave him before he even threw the flag. "Sorry man, I gotta flag that, can't get around it". I'm not defending what the guy did(it was incredibly stupid), but if we're talking about it we might as well read the interview, right?

Scruffinator: FTA: Schwartz: The official on the sidelines said, 'Hey look, I stepped in between two players and he didn't know that was me.'

The ref didn't see fit for it to be an ejection. He could of if he wanted to, sure, but from the sounds of it the ref forgave him before he even threw the flag. "Sorry man, I gotta flag that, can't get around it". I'm not defending what the guy did(it was incredibly stupid), but if we're talking about it we might as well read the interview, right?

If you watch it you see the ref push him, Pettigrew react and try to hold when he sees it's an official then the ref square up, get in his face and throw a flag while jawing at him.

The lopsided way that game was being called had it have been me I probably would have swung at the ref when he got in my face.

/Not making excuses the Lions lost the game for themselves committing stupid ass penalties.

puffy999: Well, that, and the general attitude of Lions players.

I've been wondering: how much do the players' on-field issues have to do with Schwartz's post-game handshake with Jim Harbaugh? I saw at least 2-3 instances in Sunday's game where a player made a stupid personal foul, and Schwartz was the first one talking to them as they came off the field, probably telling them something along the lines of "you're killing us out there, don't let your emotions make you do stupid things." Same thing with Suh. But if they see their coach did something different from whatever he's even preaching, what does it matter what he says?

proteus_b: in reference to NorCalLos' link, on the suh-crash...
what an absurdly self aggrandizing story... "pictures, pictures you'll see only on newschannel 4"

who farking cares? yes, of course the bastard wasn't going "25 mph"---that doesn't tend to rip the wheels off your car and spin it around a few times...

"i feel that the police have a responsibility to make sure that people who endanger the lives of others are held accountable"

while this is true, there's also something to be said for not riding in the car of people who endanger the lives of others. i guess she was trying don corleone's advice---friends close, enemies closer...

You've never driven a muscle car.

I think the NFL should suspend the coach when, in successive weeks, he has shown an inability to control his players. I think it would assist in driving home a message that the behavior would not be tolerated and cause coaches to take meaningful action when their players engage in inappropriate behavior.

While I once agreed with Charles Barkley's statement that he is "not role model," I have since learned that kids, sadly, often don't have parents to look up to and they emulate the sports stars and other entertainers that they see as successful. Consequently, I think the league has a duty, at least a moral one, to try and portray itself not only as the pinicle of athletic achievement, but also as an example of good sportsmanship.

I've been saying all year that Suh is merely a symptom of the disease. Vanden Bosch, Avril and others in the front seven are normally flagged a few times every game for hands to the face, personal fouls, etc. All things that good coaching eliminates.

The whole unit has been flirting with playing dirty for awhile and in this last stretch of the season they went ahead and crossed the Rubicon. It's really aggravating because we actually have a solid front 7 and they shouldn't need to play dirty. Put some effort into building up the secondary and you could have a solid unit.

At this point now we need to consider the impact of coaching on the game. Playing dirty is not how you win rings or even make the playoffs, as evidenced by how dumb penalties kill defensive stands and the like.

SlothB77: Peter von Nostrand: This team is headed for a melt down

the Lions have melted down already. The only reason they may make the playoffs is:

NY Giants have a brutal 6-game stretch playing the best teams in the NFL.
Chicago lost Cutler and Forte.
Atlanta makes stupid decisions in overtime can't beat the mighty T.J. Yates.

It wasn't a stupid decision considering who was on the other side of the ball. The Saints do have the #1 offense in the NFL, it wasn't as if they were in OT against the Tebows.

robsul82: And some people still wonder where it comes from, lol.

This.

They've yet to lose due to a lack of talent. The 49ers and Falcons losses were poor coaching and the rest were implosions based on inability to control themselves. If they could get their shiat together this could be a monster team.

The Schwartz being emotional angle is about as stupid a reason for their lack of control as I've seen. Schwartz is at fault for not controlling the team, but it's not because his attitude rubs off on the guys. It's because no one seems to be punished for committing stupid penalties. Backus doesn't hold people because Schwartz is crazy, nor does Young cover up the tight end at least once every game because of it.

LouisXIII: No discipline whatsoever.

They're like the Saints with Haslett running the team ten years ago.... Still, I'd wager they'll be hell season after next.

===============

Not till they get a coach that can comtrol his and the teams emotions

rorypk: They've yet to lose due to a lack of talent. The 49ers and Falcons losses were poor coaching and the rest were implosions based on inability to control themselves. If they could get their shiat together this could be a monster team.

The Schwartz being emotional angle is about as stupid a reason for their lack of control as I've seen. Schwartz is at fault for not controlling the team, but it's not because his attitude rubs off on the guys. It's because no one seems to be punished for committing stupid penalties. Backus doesn't hold people because Schwartz is crazy, nor does Young cover up the tight end at least once every game because of it.

Are you serious?

Gosder Cherilus commits an after-the-play penalty in week 1 that almost cost them the game. He was benched. Result: no more after-the-play penalties until thanksgiving.

Suh commits an after-the-play penalty last week that resulted in his suspension. No action is available for the team to take - the league handled it.

Titus Young commits an after-the-play penalty last week that resulted in going from 1st and goal inside the 10 to out of field goal range. He was sat down.

As for the pre-snap penalties; the lions had 0 false starts and 1 offside penalty (that was a phantom call anyway) at the superdome. That's pretty damn good.

If I recall - The Lions benched several offensive linemen at the beginning of the year for committing stupid penalties. Hell - even last year they were benching people for the same reason.

If anything - I'd say the Schwartz has a pretty good track record of holding guys accountable. What more should he do?

kukukupo: If anything - I'd say the Schwartz has a pretty good track record of holding guys accountable. What more should he do?

It's not about holding them accountable after the fact. It's about making sure your players are under control during games so you don't have to worry about "after the fact". Again, teams take on the personality of their head coach and we know that Schwartz is a hothead who can't control his emotions. They play the way they do - with zero control - because that's they kind of football he wants them to play. That's why you have so many different players acting so stupidly. And there's a big difference in being regimented (false starts and offsides) and playing out of control (personal fouls, fighting, getting suspended). The Lions problems are after the whistle, not before the snap. That means that they don't have their emotions in check at all.

tl;dr.

Whahappun now?

kukukupo: What more should he do?

I have no idea, not an NFL coach, but benching guys for the rest of the game doesn't seem to work. Especially when you bench Young and Logan, but let Pettigrew keep playing after his PF. I don't think that Pettigrew's PF was as egregious as some people do, but that's a pretty inconsistent punishment. They also had another illegal formation penalty, which they seem to get at least once per game. That's coaching right there. So no, I don't know what he should do, but whatever he is doing is obviously not working. It's pretty ridiculous when other teams say they're gonna goad you into stupid penalties and mistakes, and then you let them do it.

Also, after the bye week they looked horrible against the bears. Then they have a ten day break and face the Saints coming off a short week, and they looked horrible to start the game. That's all coaching too. So, Schwartz's emotions are not the problem, but his coaching is, IMO.

AdmirableSnackbar: we know that Schwartz is a hothead who can't control his emotions

One incident. There's nothing to this at all. He got pissed and got in someone's face. Once. I've watched nearly every Lions game for a decade now, even all 16 losses. He's had ample opportunities to prove he can't handle his emotions, and there's only one time it was ever an issue. His fist pump and yell after a win is hardly being too emotional. Watch the tape from the process of the catch game, watch his press conference afterwards. Dude keeps it in check. I would've murdered someone by now if I were in his shoes.

Oh, and letting Stafford throw 120 interceptions with a broken finger instead of just playing Hill for a few weeks wasn't due to Schwartz's emotions, just bad coaching

kukukupo: rorypk: They've yet to lose due to a lack of talent. The 49ers and Falcons losses were poor coaching and the rest were implosions based on inability to control themselves. If they could get their shiat together this could be a monster team.

The Schwartz being emotional angle is about as stupid a reason for their lack of control as I've seen. Schwartz is at fault for not controlling the team, but it's not because his attitude rubs off on the guys. It's because no one seems to be punished for committing stupid penalties. Backus doesn't hold people because Schwartz is crazy, nor does Young cover up the tight end at least once every game because of it.

Are you serious?

Gosder Cherilus commits an after-the-play penalty in week 1 that almost cost them the game. He was benched. Result: no more after-the-play penalties until thanksgiving.

Suh commits an after-the-play penalty last week that resulted in his suspension. No action is available for the team to take - the league handled it.

Titus Young commits an after-the-play penalty last week that resulted in going from 1st and goal inside the 10 to out of field goal range. He was sat down.

As for the pre-snap penalties; the lions had 0 false starts and 1 offside penalty (that was a phantom call anyway) at the superdome. That's pretty damn good.

If I recall - The Lions benched several offensive linemen at the beginning of the year for committing stupid penalties. Hell - even last year they were benching people for the same reason.

If anything - I'd say the Schwartz has a pretty good track record of holding guys accountable. What more should he do?

Yall should also read up on what he did with the team when he first got there. He whipped them into shape mentally.

Had a conversation with my wife about the Lions yesterday:

Let's say the Packers go 15-0 and lock homefield. Do they really try for 16-0 against the Lions?

I don't doubt the Packers could win. I'm more worried that the Lions are the kind of team who'd go into that game trying to break Rodgers leg just because. On the flip side the Pack has some impressive momentum going right now and it "could" mess them up by benching players.

rorypk: AdmirableSnackbar: we know that Schwartz is a hothead who can't control his emotions

One incident. There's nothing to this at all. He got pissed and got in someone's face. Once. I've watched nearly every Lions game for a decade now, even all 16 losses. He's had ample opportunities to prove he can't handle his emotions, and there's only one time it was ever an issue. His fist pump and yell after a win is hardly being too emotional. Watch the tape from the process of the catch game, watch his press conference afterwards. Dude keeps it in check. I would've murdered someone by now if I were in his shoes.

It's only been one incident with each of his players, too (except Suh, but only the stomping was out of line, really). The point is that when this many players on one team are out of control, that points to a coach who is also out of control - or at least coaches his team to play out of control. Given that this coach also has a very public out of control incident on his record this year, it's fair to put the blame for this squarely on him.

rorypk: Oh, and letting Stafford throw 120 interceptions with a broken finger instead of just playing Hill for a few weeks wasn't due to Schwartz's emotions, just bad coaching

This. At least Stafford seems to be healthy again. He took some big hits on Sunday and still performed well(minus the one INT). The kids tough, but if his throwing hand is farked up give Hill some play time out there. He could use the experience.

AdmirableSnackbar: rorypk: AdmirableSnackbar: we know that Schwartz is a hothead who can't control his emotions

One incident. There's nothing to this at all. He got pissed and got in someone's face. Once. I've watched nearly every Lions game for a decade now, even all 16 losses. He's had ample opportunities to prove he can't handle his emotions, and there's only one time it was ever an issue. His fist pump and yell after a win is hardly being too emotional. Watch the tape from the process of the catch game, watch his press conference afterwards. Dude keeps it in check. I would've murdered someone by now if I were in his shoes.

It's only been one incident with each of his players, too (except Suh, but only the stomping was out of line, really). The point is that when this many players on one team are out of control, that points to a coach who is also out of control - or at least coaches his team to play out of control. Given that this coach also has a very public out of control incident on his record this year, it's fair to put the blame for this squarely on him.

I think you're stretching, but we can both agree it's on the coach regardless of the reasons behind it.

Di Atribe: Hey football peoples: someone go submit a power rankings thread. The 2 in the pipe just got redlit. Including mine. :(

I blame unfreakable

IAmRight: Misplaced yat: It wasn't a stupid decision considering who was on the other side of the ball. The Saints do have the #1 offense in the NFL, it wasn't as if they were in OT against the Tebows.

Yes, it was a stupid decision even against the Saints, whom they had already stopped in OT.

Stopped once. Last season, when the same teams went to OT, the Saints stopped the Falcons once, but not a second time. One drive isn't an argument.

The Saints had moved the ball well on about half of their drives that game, letting them have the ball again was at best a 50/50 prospect. The Falcons had a better than 50/50 shot at picking up the 2 inches they needed, Mike Smith just called a stupid play.