But he's already been John Frederick Paxton on Enterprise and that timeline hasn't been affected by the new movie.

The deuce you say?

Benicio Del Toro as the villain? Hmmmmm... Khan?

buntz: But he's already been John Frederick Paxton on Enterprise and that timeline hasn't been affected by the new movie.

But the guy who played Kirk's son in Wrath of Kahn was on an episode of Next Generation season one before the timeline was invalidated.

/oh and the same episode had the first officer of Khan's ship on it too
//"we must withdraw"

Maybe he's Borg?

Mugato: buntz: But he's already been John Frederick Paxton on Enterprise and that timeline hasn't been affected by the new movie.

That was a bad ass episode. Then it was followed by a terrible episode with a bloated Riker then they canceled the series.

I actually liked the Riker episode at first. It gave the series a way to show where the story was going (foundation of the Federation), shortcut to some deeper character work with all the scenes with the cook, and not end the series with a scene about a baby dying. It also cannibalized and dirtied up an earlier Trek plot from a more successful series, which was the MO for Enterprise from start to finish. Sure Riker is bloated and looks weird, but the episode itself is pretty well put together and is a nice bow on the series.

Then I went back and re-watched Pegasus which I hadn't seen in years. Riker spends that whole episode with his back against the wall. He's never playfully introspective, and he's not any less insecure at the moment he reveals his secret than he was earlier in the episode.

mongbiohazard: Benicio Del Toro as the villain? Hmmmmm... Khan?

I was thinking he'd look good as a Klingon.

Mugato: Nah, no matter what you thought of the series, Enterprise deserved a send off where the crew was the center of the story, not two has beens from a previous show.

I'd read that Frakes and Sirtis signed on because they were given the impression that it would be, essentially, a cameo, which would have been a good idea. They only found out afterwards that it would essentially be a Riker/Troi story, and the Enterprise crew would basically be supports, and felt pretty bad about it. As great as it was to see that gorgeous Enterprise-D digital model, the episode was basically a fark-you to Enterprise. I'm at least glad that although Enterprise took a lot of abuse when it was actually on air, it's gotten a lot more respect over the last few years.

And Trip lives, dammit. He lives. (I know in the novels they've established that, but I haven't read them.) I basically think of the finale as the twisted "official" version of history, seen from 200 years in the future. Of course they'd get a lot wrong, even with digital data storage.

You know who I'd like to see to establish some nice continuity in the new movie? Shran's Aenar daughter.

Mugato: If there are going to be Klingons, they'd better be the bumpy headed kind. I know that there was an episode of EnterpriseDS9 where they gave some half assed explanation why they looked like the way they looked in the old series but screw that.

"It is a long story."

Free Radical: Mugato: If there are going to be Klingons, they'd better be the bumpy headed kind. I know that there was an episode of EnterpriseDS9 where they gave some half assed explanation why they looked like the way they looked in the old series but screw that.

"It is a long story."

Yeah, but they have episodes in Enterprise that go into further detail about some genetic modifications they were trying during the Augments episodes with Arik Soong. It made them stronger and more aggressive and took away the bumpy heads.

Mugato: Free Radical: "It is a long story."

It was more like, "We don't discuss it with outsiders so shut your hole"

In a related story

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 640x488]

Retro Dax

Retro Dax was smokin' hot!

Mugato: LDM90: I was thinking he'd look good as a Klingon.

If there are going to be Klingons, they'd better be the bumpy headed kind. I know that there was an episode of Enterprise where they gave some half assed explanation why they looked like the way they looked in the old series but screw that.

The smooth headed Klingons were a sub-race that took power in the empire for a short time. These were the Klingons that the USS Enterprise encountered in the series because Klingon military service and political power are so intertwined. The rest of the race still had the ridges. They fell from power/ re-evolved into ridge headed Klingons between the series and the first movie.

Easy enough to claim they really only reigned during the series itself. Since the new movies are about the Star Trek Babies and takes place at least a decade (maybe two) before the original series, it is easy enough to presume that the smooth domed Klingons haven't seized power yet (or won't because why not).

really, with where they left off, weller could be a separatist type that wants the federation to break away from any alien races, and del toro cuold be a klingon, and they both see the weakness in the feds because of what happened with nero.

or del toro could move up the klingon ranks since they lots 47 or something ships against nero.

Shouldn't that be Latinum, not a dollar?

They should have both Klingons the chunky and the creamy, or is that peanut butter?

No. Self sealing stem bolts.

Benicio del Toro is not Khan. And Weller is playing an older, secondary villain to del Toro.

Del Toro's character is supposed to be someone known to Star Trek fans.

Queue? ('Q') He sets the table of conflict as a prankster to go against Weller's villain.

You Are All Sheep: really, with where they left off, weller could be a separatist type that wants the federation to break away from any alien races, and del toro cuold be a klingon, and they both see the weakness in the feds because of what happened with nero.

or del toro could move up the klingon ranks since they lots 47 or something ships against nero.

Weller should be Robert April, mad that he didn't even exist in the first movie as the first captain of the Enterprise.

Mugato: salvador.hardin: it is easy enough to presume that the smooth domed Klingons haven't seized power yet (or won't because why not).

Or that it's just a design change from the original series to the movies forward, like the Enterprise itself and Kirk's hair.

Confabulat:
Enterprise's lame-ass attempt to retcon 60s TV makeup into something that made sense was just embarrassing. Worf's "We do not talk about it" was perfect and should have been left at that. But nooo, the Trekkies need to have everything explained into canon or some bullshiat, instead of remembering it was a damn NBC show in the 1960s.

Well, I'm glad Star Trek is a lot more interesting now. Thanks, J.J. Abrams!

Calm down guys, no need to get your panties in a wad. Design changes are fine. However, they decided to explain it and its a good explanation that gives some insight into the Klingon race. Its not a retcon, because they didn't change any of the facts, they just made some new ones.

"We do not talk about it" was just as much of an attempt to establish that an in-canon explanation for the design difference exists, so stop pretending you are some brass-tacs non-trekie. You clearly care.

And you are confusing a well executed distraction with an interesting idea. Nothing about JJ's trek was interesting or new, just gorgeous and well scored.

Mugato: coeyagi: Del Toro's character is supposed to be someone known to Star Trek fans.

Queue? ('Q')

"I'll flip ya, Enterprise, flip ya for real."

"Beme the fargup ya fargin cogsuga, whathafaaark?"

Mugato: salvador.hardin: just gorgeous and well scored.

I don't really remember the score

Watch the first scene with the Kelvin. The score (along with some pretty superb acting) turns the ham-fisted melodrama into one of the most emotionally poignant scenes in all of Star Trek.

salvador.hardin: Mugato: buntz: But he's already been John Frederick Paxton on Enterprise and that timeline hasn't been affected by the new movie.

That was a bad ass episode. Then it was followed by a terrible episode with a bloated Riker then they canceled the series.

I actually liked the Riker episode at first. It gave the series a way to show where the story was going (foundation of the Federation), shortcut to some deeper character work with all the scenes with the cook, and not end the series with a scene about a baby dying. It also cannibalized and dirtied up an earlier Trek plot from a more successful series, which was the MO for Enterprise from start to finish. Sure Riker is bloated and looks weird, but the episode itself is pretty well put together and is a nice bow on the series.

Then I went back and re-watched Pegasus which I hadn't seen in years. Riker spends that whole episode with his back against the wall. He's never playfully introspective, and he's not any less insecure at the moment he reveals his secret than he was earlier in the episode.

Eh, I thought it was a pretty shameless and cynical ploy to get TNG fans to tune into the final episode so they'd go out with a ratings boost. I barely watched Enterprise, but when I heard that the episode would feature Riker with sets from TNG, I of course tuned in. And I was horrified to see how much Frakes had let himself go.

rickycal78: Mugato: Free Radical: "It is a long story."

It was more like, "We don't discuss it with outsiders so shut your hole"

In a related story

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 640x488]

Retro Dax

Retro Dax was smokin' hot!

Retro Dax was a bit of a whore in that ep too. I swear she wanted to jump on Kirk and Spock, at the same time.

salvador.hardin: Confabulat:
Enterprise's lame-ass attempt to retcon 60s TV makeup into something that made sense was just embarrassing. Worf's "We do not talk about it" was perfect and should have been left at that. But nooo, the Trekkies need to have everything explained into canon or some bullshiat, instead of remembering it was a damn NBC show in the 1960s.

Well, I'm glad Star Trek is a lot more interesting now. Thanks, J.J. Abrams!

Calm down guys, no need to get your panties in a wad. Design changes are fine. However, they decided to explain it and its a good explanation that gives some insight into the Klingon race. Its not a retcon, because they didn't change any of the facts, they just made some new ones.

"We do not talk about it" was just as much of an attempt to establish that an in-canon explanation for the design difference exists, so stop pretending you are some brass-tacs non-trekie. You clearly care.

"We don't talk about it" was perfect, as it was entirely in character and allowed the audience to get past an obvious issue and just enjoy an awesomely fun episode.

The reason given in Entreprise wasn't as good because everything in Enterprise, from the theme song onwards, stank of desperation stacked on top of a big pile of shiate and fail
(Yeah, yeah, the later series weren't as terrible. Maybe, but I'm not watching them to find out).

He was really good in Dr. Stranglove.

Confabulat: Let's revisit this, shall we: Back in like 2008, Trekkies freaked out because they heard about "Trek 90210" and they all decided they hated J.J. Abrams and his Enterprise Babies.

Then they realized their beloved canon was gone and they freaked out some more.

WORSE, they never got that Deep Space Nine movie they've been secretly writing for a decade.

Then the movie arrived, it was a huge critical and commercial success, and pretty much everyone liked it except for those still-angry Trekkies who couldn't move on.

My prediction for 2013: The new movie will be as good or better than the last one, and the Trekkies that were so investing in hating J.J. Abrams last time, will now find things in it to make them "forgive" him for the first one, and then they will all love new Star Trek too.

Because they've really got to get over the Berman/Braga era.

Ugh, don't remind me about Braga. Dude served up a shiat sammich with Enterprise and Voyager. Not that both of those series were totally bad, I actually enjoyed bits from both, but crap like the Borg stuff from Voyager, and having Enterprise encounter the Borg, and the Temporal Cold War bullshiat was bad.

Personally, I enjoyed the new Trek movie for the most part. There were some elements that they did somewhat stupidly (Kirk a Captain right out of the academy, Scotty's little mascot, Scotty not really being serious), but for the most part it wasn't bad at all.

Buckaroo Banzai on the Enterprise. Nice.

It's hard to forget about Braga when he won't go away.

He's just finding new shows to mess up.

Mugato: ..then after they blew their budget on everything else they remembered they didn't make an engine room yet so they rented out a brewery.

Lulz.

RexTalionis: Mugato: ManateeGag: Remember, the dude who played Paris played Wesley's Starfleet Academy squad leader

He was actually supposed to be the same character but there was a legal thing.

They recycled a ton of actors. Mark Lenard (Spock's dad) played a Vulcan, a Klingon and a Romulan (oh my!).

Yeah, Star Trek is the king of the recycled actors, since the producers seem to love to bring actors that they know and like back to do all sorts of different roles.

Of course, let's not forget the greatest multi-role actor of them all.
[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x495]

JEFFREY COMBS!!!

/it ate his head... like a ginger... bread... man

Confabulat: Let's revisit this, shall we: Back in like 2008, Trekkies freaked out because they heard about "Trek 90210" and they all decided they hated J.J. Abrams and his Enterprise Babies.

Then they realized their beloved canon was gone and they freaked out some more.

WORSE, they never got that Deep Space Nine movie they've been secretly writing for a decade.

Then the movie arrived, it was a huge critical and commercial success, and pretty much everyone liked it except for those still-angry Trekkies who couldn't move on.

My prediction for 2013: The new movie will be as good or better than the last one, and the Trekkies that were so investing in hating J.J. Abrams last time, will now find things in it to make them "forgive" him for the first one, and then they will all love new Star Trek too.

Because they've really got to get over the Berman/Braga era.

Ummm... have you seen any of the odd numbered Treks? Trekkies are perfectly capable dealing with disappointment. You are generalizing the opinions of a group of people that have massive conventions devoted to discussing and arguing about the minutia of an uneven 4 decade long franchise.

JJ's Trek is a lot of flash and no substance. It was a perfectly adequate movie, but there is nothing interesting about it. Name one idea the movie explored that was either new or interesting. Name anything that happened that inspires one to reflect on some aspect of society or humanity. Try and say anything positive about the movie without referring to what you think other people think about it. Entertainment for entertainment's sake is fine, but it doesn't make great Trek.

Ultimately, regardless of the execution of the movie "What does god need with a starship?" is a far more intriguing question than "why is Nero so angry?"

If the next movie maintains the tone, character, and production values from the first one and has some substantive question to ask and answer (which should be easier since JJ doesn't have to do all the character introduction and continuity work) then it will be good Trek.