stryker4526: University is not a vocational school, you ignoramus.

No, plumbers actually get jobs and make real money. So do electricians. So do mechanics. Welders. Carpenters. In other words, vocational school graduates. You don't see a lot of plumbers and carpenters protesting with OWS, do you? You know why that is? Because they have jobs. Instead of degrees. Boy, what idiots THEY are, amiright?

untaken_name: stryker4526: University is not a vocational school, you ignoramus.

No, plumbers actually get jobs and make real money. So do electricians. So do mechanics. Welders. Carpenters. In other words, vocational school graduates. You don't see a lot of plumbers and carpenters protesting with OWS, do you? You know why that is? Because they have jobs. Instead of degrees. Boy, what idiots THEY are, amiright?

Uh, That is backbreaking, physical work. It's barely a step up from flipping burgers.

CrispFlows: Let me understand you correctly - You think she should not ever be employed?

She thinks that SPACE BEAMS turned the World Trade Center into DUST, what do you think?

No, I'm not kidding, space beams from space turned structural steel into dust.

You hire her.

DROxINxTHExWIND: m2313: EWreckedSean: No, the alternative is a different employer. It's not like you have the choice of one employer or none. People get new jobs all the time. It isn't rocket science here. The only people who are wage slaves are those with no valuable or marketable skills.

You're pretending that other jobs are widely available, or available at all, and that they don't have multiple barriers to entry would put one further in the hole.



What the fark is happening here? Am I becoming a Republican?? I could not disagree with you more. Take a step back and look at what you're saying. You're basically advocating giving up trying until the protests force the job creators to come down from the mountain and sprinlke everyone with jobs.

My mother is a self-made African-American woman who, without a degree, worked her way up the ladder in the finance department of a major corporation. She was there for 15 years. TWO MONTHS AGO, she was laid off. Instead of biatching about what degree she didn't have, she got up everyday like she had a job and spent 8 hours a day at her computer shopping her resume. She is now employed, making less than she was in the old job, but more than enough to sustain her lifestyle because she lives within her means. While I TRULY believe in the mission of OWS, I think its being corrupted by the lazy and by people who don't even have enough information about our financial system to make judgements about whats fair and whats not. Your post sounds like you're saying, "Waaaah, I may have to go get more skills if I want a job and that would cost me time and money, so therefore there are no jobs." It's crazy talk.

Good for her ... love the handle BTW

CrispFlows: untaken_name: stryker4526: University is not a vocational school, you ignoramus.

No, plumbers actually get jobs and make real money. So do electricians. So do mechanics. Welders. Carpenters. In other words, vocational school graduates. You don't see a lot of plumbers and carpenters protesting with OWS, do you? You know why that is? Because they have jobs. Instead of degrees. Boy, what idiots THEY are, amiright?

Uh, That is backbreaking, physical work. It's barely a step up from flipping burgers.

Riiiiight. Hey, keep perpetuating the myth, man. Find me a place you can make $80/hr flipping burgers. But that's what a plumber makes. Sure, it's crappy work sometimes (yes, yes, pun intended) but so what? Not many people like their job. Many people work much harder for much less. Like interns, and legal aids, for instance. There's a lot of farking off on a jobsite, if you haven't been on one before. And these days, there's so much OSHA stuff that you ain't gonna break your back. But hey, if you prefer camping out in parks to bringing home a paycheck, that's fine. I guess it's better than flipping burgers, or something else derogatory about a necessary job. Maybe something about ditch diggers. You fill in the details, since you know more about demeaning people based on their vocation.

untaken_name: aids

aides, of course.

/stupid legal A.I.D.S.

The Occupy movement just wants some rational balance ... here is a coherent, well thought out plan to save the economy from Occupy DC. (new window)

Of course, it goes against the Republicans' one stringent no-compromise policy - it requires getting the rich to inch a little closer to paying a reasonable and sustainable tax rate.

Just this week, the GOP is blocking Obama from extending the employee payroll tax cut to middle class Americans, which will keep a meaningful (to them) $1k a year in their pockets, while continuing to harp on the blatant lie that having the lowest personal taxes on the wealthy in nearly 100 years somehow incents them to create more jobs.

Let me beat the GOP supporters reaqding this with a clue stick, from someone who has actually grown and run a business and made critical business decisions:

1. The decision to hire or not hire someone is based on the impact that hire will have on the P&L of a business, not the owners' or investors' personal tax situation(s)
2. If the new hire ultimately increases profits, then it's a good decision - otherwise it's not
3. This decision has fark all to do with how much tax the business owner pays on those increased profits after they have collected them
4. This is true regardless of legal status of the business (S Corp, C Corp, LLC) and how its and its owners' taxes are paid

/ millionaire, 99%er (albeit 2%er), thoroughly supports Occupy and what it stands for
// Why did Henry Ford pay his workers nearly 3x the previous prevailing wage? Figure it out and you'll understand how economies work :)

ParaHandy: a reasonable and sustainable tax rate.

Which would be?

Did you know that the American Federal government existed before personal income taxes were ever collected by that same entity?

stryker4526: derpdeederp: stryker4526 2011-12-05 10:35:56 AM

University is not a vocational school you ignoramus.

I think I see your issue right there. Dont go into debt for a degree that wont help you get a job.

University is not a vocational school, you ignoramus.

Perhaps you should tell that to all the OWS protesters whining about the debt they went into to get a degree and how they now can't find a job, you ignoramus.

DROxINxTHExWIND: What the fark is happening here? Am I becoming a Republican?? I could not disagree with you more. Take a step back and look at what you're saying. You're basically advocating giving up trying until the protests force the job creators to come down from the mountain and sprinlke everyone with jobs.

My mother is a self-made African-American woman who, without a degree, worked her way up the ladder in the finance department of a major corporation. She was there for 15 years. TWO MONTHS AGO, she was laid off. Instead of biatching about what degree she didn't have, she got up everyday like she had a job and spent 8 hours a day at her computer shopping her resume. She is now employed, making less than she was in the old job, but more than enough to sustain her lifestyle because she lives within her means. While I TRULY believe in the mission of OWS, I think its being corrupted by the lazy and by people who don't even have enough information about our financial system to make judgements about whats fair and whats not. Your post sounds like you're saying, "Waaaah, I may have to go get more skills if I want a job and that would cost me time and money, so therefore there are no jobs." It's crazy talk.

holy shiat, the skies opened up and the four horsemen rode in and i didn't even notice. but i think that for once dro expressed the sentiment of probably most moderate americans---that the system is rigged and needs all kinds of repair, but that it doesn't need to be destroyed entirely... there are self-made people and success generally requires hard work....

mod3072: I considered going for my PhD just so I could make people call me "Doctor". In the end, the cost/benefit on that one didn't quite work out.

i dunno, i'm a post-doc now, probably going to move out of academia after this... early thirties, little savings, live with roommates...

but i've got a t-shirt that says "doctor", so i think you should have done it...

untaken_name: Find me a place you can make $80/hr flipping burgers. But that's what a plumber makes.

that's before expenses, i think a plumber realistically nets about between 20 or 30 per hour, before personal income taxes...

proteus_b: untaken_name: Find me a place you can make $80/hr flipping burgers. But that's what a plumber makes.

that's before expenses, i think a plumber realistically nets about between 20 or 30 per hour, before personal income taxes...

A plumber also can work in any location in the US, let alone the world, while not being limited by schedules, no risk of outsourcing to a foreign country, etc. Like government work, job security comes at the expense of a little extra wages. The plumber also doesn't have to keep going to school(or otherwise train) to learn new ways to plumb, where as I do, being in IT. You don't become a dinosaur in plumbing after 10 years of not being educated.

bhcompy: A plumber also can work in any location in the US, let alone the world, while not being limited by schedules, no risk of outsourcing to a foreign country, etc. Like government work, job security comes at the expense of a little extra wages. The plumber also doesn't have to keep going to school(or otherwise train) to learn new ways to plumb, where as I do, being in IT. You don't become a dinosaur in plumbing after 10 years of not being educated.

oh not at all knocking it. before the economy kind of went to shiat, my plumber uncle was making more than my doctor mama... just saying that just cause you pay 120 dollars for a plumber to do thirty minutes of work doesn't mean he took home 120 dollars... i dunno, i'd probably trade in my phd in physics for a normal trade right about now....

untaken_name: You don't see a lot of plumbers and carpenters protesting with OWS, do you?

How many 80 year old plumbers do you know? Or electricians? Or mechanics?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

While the professions you listed are admirable and necessary in our modern society, they do have one drawback - one cannot perform them forever.

There's reasons why parents started to send their kids to college en masse in the last century, and most of it had to do with the realities of hard physical labor. That's also why the pension (what employers like to call a "defined benefit plan" now) system was invented, because for jobs involving manual labor such as these there comes a time when your body just will not let you do them any more.

However, for many positions which require a degree, such as teacher, CEO, physicist, engineer, graphic designer and so on, the only limitations to your working lifespan are inside your head.
Besides, life is not just about how much money you make, it's about living. 40 years doing a sh*t job, even if it pays 6 figures, is a waste. Millionaires are rich not only because they love money, but because they love what they do.

rewind2846: untaken_name: You don't see a lot of plumbers and carpenters protesting with OWS, do you?

How many 80 year old plumbers do you know? Or electricians? Or mechanics?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

While the professions you listed are admirable and necessary in our modern society, they do have one drawback - one cannot perform them forever.

There's reasons why parents started to send their kids to college en masse in the last century, and most of it had to do with the realities of hard physical labor. That's also why the pension (what employers like to call a "defined benefit plan" now) system was invented, because for jobs involving manual labor such as these there comes a time when your body just will not let you do them any more.

However, for many positions which require a degree, such as teacher, CEO, physicist, engineer, graphic designer and so on, the only limitations to your working lifespan are inside your head.
Besides, life is not just about how much money you make, it's about living. 40 years doing a sh*t job, even if it pays 6 figures, is a waste. Millionaires are rich not only because they love money, but because they love what they do.

Err.. most contractors and skilled laborers I know also love what they do. Building/creating/fixing shiat is fun or even art for a lot of these people.

bhcompy:
Err.. most contractors and skilled laborers I know also love what they do. Building/creating/fixing shiat is fun or even art for a lot of these people.

I didn't say these people (skilled laborers) didn't love what they did. The point is that not everyone likes or wants to do that kind of labor, and there used to be jobs available for those that chose not to do them. If that is what you want to do, by all means go for it.

I would never look down on or ridicule anyone who works with their hands, as my father did to raise myself and my two brothers, but only on FARK can someone actually be ridiculed for getting off their asses and doing something (at their own expense) to improve themselves and go for what they want.

Figures.

rewind2846: How many 80 year old plumbers do you know? Or electricians? Or mechanics?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

You thought that I knew several? Weird. How did you know that? Of course, they're all retired now, and have multiple houses, but hey, I guess that's the point you were trying to make, right?

untaken_name: rewind2846: How many 80 year old plumbers do you know? Or electricians? Or mechanics?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

You thought that I knew several? Weird. How did you know that? Of course, they're all retired now, and have multiple houses, but hey, I guess that's the point you were trying to make, right?

Wrong. The only point is on the top of your head.
If you had bothered to fire up a brain cell or two and read what I posted in context (yes, context does matter) you might have fathomed that there are very few people of that age working full time in those trades because of the toll decades of physical labor take on the human body.

You can go back to being obtuse now.