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(NYPost)   OWS protester scores Wall Street job, which means the rest of you smelly hippies have to go home and let Wall Street bankers enjoy their Christmas bonuses in peace   (nypost.com) divider line 369
    More: Spiffy, Occupy Wall Street, Wall Street, Financial District, biomedical sciences, Zuccotti Park, peace, Tracy Postert  
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10396 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2011 at 10:07 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2011-12-05 10:55:58 AM

skullkrusher: hunting and gathering for all!


Another strawman.
I'm not a primitivist.
At least EWSean has bother arguing points instead of expounding on bullshiat strawmen.
 
2011-12-05 10:57:17 AM

m2313: EWreckedSean: They didn't risk anything, invest anything, innovate anything.

Workers risk more and use more than the owners.
The investment comes from wealth skimmed from other people.
Innovation can come from anybody, but it will still just be an idea unless they have someone put it into form and make it real.
.......

workplace actually increases productivity and innovation. As these experiments show workers, when given the chance, can develop numerous "good ideas" and, equally as important, produce them. A capitalist with a " ...



"Talking to you is like clapping with one hand"

- Anthrax
 
2011-12-05 10:57:35 AM

stainedglassdoll: Beluga Heights: stainedglassdoll: As someone halfway through getting her Ph.D. in biomedical engineering, I am not getting a kick.

/supports OWS, $0 debt

Are you single?

Nope. :)

archichris: YOUR DEGREE AINT WORTH shiat IF NO ONE NEEDS YOUR TRAINING.

Go teach some college kids how to get a worthless degree and leave the rest of the working world alone.

To work professionally in most STEM jobs, a masters or doctorate is required, because undergraduate schools are so diluted with students that have been told they need to go to college to succeed that a bachelor's degree is essentially a high school diploma 2.0.

You are a total hypocrite if you think it's OK to live in a society where an advanced degree in biomedical science is considered worthless but take a single asprin or any kind of medicine.


Not worthless. Biomedical engineering field also has certifications, the article doesn't mention if she has them. Also, NYC isn't the best place for biomed. Places like San Diego, Orange County, etc have strong biomed presences, and are on the other side of the country.

Biggest problem with these OWS kids is that they expect shiat to come to them. Hell, this girl looks healthy. The armed forces take all sorts of engineers, and an advanced degree generally means you can go in as an officer.
 
2011-12-05 10:58:44 AM
OWS isn't anti-banking, it's anti dehumanizing corporate greed and malfeasance. Sure there are some who simply rant F the man, but that's because they are too stupid to realize what is really hurting them. OWS want financial markets that are good for something other than simply lining the pockets of bankers. Bankers can still be paid, but we want them to actually DO something instead of just rigging the system.

Oh yeah, and don't biatch about paying taxes on stuff if you are already rich! You are rich because there are the rest of us buying your services! If we're broke, you either go down too or wind up living in a third world sht hole.
 
2011-12-05 11:00:05 AM

archichris: RodneyToady: A near minimum wage job for a Ph.D. in a STEM field. Stellar.

Yeah and this one time I totally customized this 1999 Hewlett Packard Pavilion with like some cool lights and a biatching fast HDD and a killer sound card. I had like $1400 invested in that and then I went to sell it in like 2004 and this biatch wall street guy who was totally 1% told me it wasnt worth the money I had invested in it cause the world had moved on and my computer was now obsolete and he only wanted to give me $25 for it.

Or to put it in a way you might understand.....

YOUR DEGREE AINT WORTH shiat IF NO ONE NEEDS YOUR TRAINING.

Go teach some college kids how to get a worthless degree and leave the rest of the working world alone.


Isn't one of the anti-OWS talking points that people should get STEM degrees instead of 'worthless' degrees such as art history?
 
2011-12-05 11:00:11 AM

GaryPDX: OR, you could start your own business.



Not everyone can start their own business, and have a nation full of businesses with 1 employee each. Most people need to work for someone else in this society we've created, so it's important that we set the rules so that those workers (who are the majority of the country):
* Are protected from being financially exploited as a class by having their wages depressed and wealth robbed (as has been happening for many, many years)
* Protected from abuses in general by their employers
* Can have a relatively stable economy to try and make ends meet in

The reason we have jobs that "Americans don't want" that we're tacitly allowing businesses to fill with illegal immigrants is because the wages and benefits for those jobs have dropped through the floor. For instance, you used to be able to make a living as a meat packer in upstate New York. You'd have enough salary and pension to live the American dream, and care for your family. Now those jobs are primarily taken by illegal immigrants. It's not because Americans suddenly are above that sort of thing, it's because the wages have fallen and benefits have been stripped over the years to the point where those jobs are utterly unappealing to the rational person. Immigrants don't have as much choice, and they don't have legal protections, so they end up being exploited as a class of people so that companies don't need to pay people properly for the jobs they still need done.

The OWS people don't want not not have to work, or free stuff or all their debts paid... They want a government which balances the interests of the public against the interests of big business, instead of the situation we have now where the interests of big money/business are the only interests which are attended to. A return to a society that compensates people fairly, and is better managed so that more jobs are available and those jobs don't have ever shrinking compensation which ends up on the road to railroading the majority of our population into a kind of perpetual wage slavery.
 
2011-12-05 11:00:42 AM

stainedglassdoll: You are a total hypocrite if you think it's OK to live in a society where an advanced degree in biomedical science is considered worthless but take a single asprin or any kind of medicine.



What? If there is no demand for her services, why should she be paid a high wage simply because she went to school for a long time? There has to be a demand for your service. If what you can do does not produce or contribute to the production of a prodict or service that can be traded for money, there is very little incentive for anyone to pay you.
 
2011-12-05 11:02:15 AM

m2313: skullkrusher: hunting and gathering for all!

Another strawman.
I'm not a primitivist.
At least EWSean has bother arguing points instead of expounding on bullshiat strawmen.


it wasn't meant to be a strawman. It's just the only existence I find plausible given your desires.
You don't get an industrial society with differentiated labor through anarchistic workers collectives.
You get tribes who hunt, maybe some farming. You don't get cars and iPads and modern medicine.
 
2011-12-05 11:02:40 AM

jst3p: trappedspirit: How is this a minimum wage job? There's lots of fail here this morning.

Starting with your inability to RTFA apparently.


Don't you mean my unability? Nice jorb!
 
2011-12-05 11:04:34 AM

m2313: Smiths: But what about her student loans? It's basically slavery.

That's what capitalism's core feature is.
Wage slavery. There are also forms of theft such as IPs laws, rent, interest, etc. etc.
Prostitution is morally decried because you sell your body, but selling your body and hence most/a large amount of your life to a boss's orders and decrees based on immorally claimed ownership of the property they do not use for anything but wealth extraction from those below them is not slavery and is perfectly fine. It's voluntary!
Because when economic, social, and political inequality in the background skews contracts consistently in favor of the management and owners who do not work and are parasites for a living it is to be ignored and claimed the greatest of all freedom! You don't have to work for that boss, you can sell yourself to another or starve to death! Or you could be a serf on welfare to the owner's favorite buddy and physical enforcer, the state!



Intellectual property and voluntary contracts are theft?

Working for a living at a place of your choosing is slavery?

What sort of system do you imagine would be better?
 
2011-12-05 11:05:00 AM

skullkrusher: m2313: skullkrusher: hunting and gathering for all!

Another strawman.
I'm not a primitivist.
At least EWSean has bother arguing points instead of expounding on bullshiat strawmen.

it wasn't meant to be a strawman. It's just the only existence I find plausible given your desires.
You don't get an industrial society with differentiated labor through anarchistic workers collectives.
You get tribes who hunt, maybe some farming. You don't get cars and iPads and modern medicine.


actually, you do but not from the collectives. The cars and iPads come when people desirous of more for themselves or don't like the direction the collective is heading strike out on their own and form their own society and then conquer the anarchists with smallpox blankets and firewater
 
2011-12-05 11:05:11 AM

plewis: OWS isn't anti-banking, it's anti dehumanizing corporate greed and malfeasance. Sure there are some who simply rant F the man, but that's because they are too stupid to realize what is really hurting them. OWS want financial markets that are good for something other than simply lining the pockets of bankers. Bankers can still be paid, but we want them to actually DO something instead of just rigging the system.


There are some who, like you said, "simply rant F the man".
There are some who say 'down with banks'.
There are some who want health care reform.
There are some who want across-the-board student loan forgiveness (dumbest idea ever).
There are some who want money out of politics.

If OWS could at least agree on what its core message is, maybe more people would listen.
 
2011-12-05 11:05:30 AM

skullkrusher: it wasn't meant to be a strawman. It's just the only existence I find plausible given your desires.
You don't get an industrial society with differentiated labor through anarchistic workers collectives.
You get tribes who hunt, maybe some farming. You don't get cars and iPads and modern medicine.


Well then I respectfully disagree.
I reject the Primitivist implication that technology exclusively shapes society without the other way around. Technology's use is also a result of social interaction in society. Given a different type of society there would be different uses/types of technology. In Spain they were able to run car factories and such. I believe you could get the same levels of technology but different types or uses.
I do submit that a lack of centralization would definitely slow the development of technology but I do not believe it would be incompatible with it.
 
2011-12-05 11:06:06 AM

bhcompy: Biggest problem with these OWS kids is that they expect shiat to come to them. Hell, this girl looks healthy. The armed forces take all sorts of engineers, and an advanced degree generally means you can go in as an officer.


Well, this job just came to this protestor. Maybe they are on to something.
 
2011-12-05 11:06:40 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Famous Thamas: She's gonna have a great time as a junior analyst building all those spreadsheets and reports for the seniors. Could she make a cool six figures one day? Sure, after 5-10 years of working 70-80 hour weeks. Even then, only if she's lucky...

What the fark is wrong with you people? How hard SHOULD she have to work and how long SHOULD she have to wait to get six figures?? Jesus, I'm the smelliest hippy around but I have NO IDEA how anyone could have a problem with this woman taking a job. Unreal.


It's not just about her personally. You don't see anything wrong with an economy where a highly-trained scientist can't work in her field? It seems to me that we collectively lose out when someone trained in something useful - pharmacology - ends up having to go into a field that has nothing to do with that and just involves making money from money.
 
2011-12-05 11:07:28 AM
Then: OWS protestors should get off their asses and get jobs!

Now: She got off her ass and got a job? She's a sellout and a hypocrite!
 
2011-12-05 11:08:32 AM

ArachnidDude: m2313: EWreckedSean: They didn't risk anything, invest anything, innovate anything.

Workers risk more and use more than the owners.
The investment comes from wealth skimmed from other people.
Innovation can come from anybody, but it will still just be an idea unless they have someone put it into form and make it real.
.......

workplace actually increases productivity and innovation. As these experiments show workers, when given the chance, can develop numerous "good ideas" and, equally as important, produce them. A capitalist with a " ...


"Talking to you is like clapping with one hand"

- Anthrax


AAWWWWW CAUGHT IN A MOSH!
 
2011-12-05 11:10:13 AM

stevetherobot: bhcompy: Biggest problem with these OWS kids is that they expect shiat to come to them. Hell, this girl looks healthy. The armed forces take all sorts of engineers, and an advanced degree generally means you can go in as an officer.

Well, this job just came to this protestor. Maybe they are on to something.


And how many of those have advanced degrees?

/assuming that it isn't a plant
 
2011-12-05 11:12:15 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Beluga Heights: I'm with some of the posters who say this is probably staged. But I'm not terribly surprised. Americans love the comfortable and the status quo before anything else. If all the OWS protestors were given comfortable, well-compensated jobs they'd snatch them right up and never protest another day in their life. Why? Because we're a culture that rewards being fat and rich and doesn't give a shiat about anything or anyone else.


Again, WHAT THE FARK WOULD BE WRONG WITH THIS??

Why would it be an issue if the "1%" offered every person sitting in a park right now a job with full benefits and yearly bonuses? Why is it considered selling out to work? What the fark do you all think they're protesing for? Its not hypocritical to take the very thing that you're asking for.


What's wrong with it?

Well how about this. The issues being protested aren't just pertaining to being unemployed or underpaid. The issue is more fundamental. There is something wrong with our economic and political system in this country. Just giving people jobs won't help it or solve anything.
 
2011-12-05 11:12:18 AM

angrycrank: DROxINxTHExWIND: Famous Thamas: She's gonna have a great time as a junior analyst building all those spreadsheets and reports for the seniors. Could she make a cool six figures one day? Sure, after 5-10 years of working 70-80 hour weeks. Even then, only if she's lucky...

What the fark is wrong with you people? How hard SHOULD she have to work and how long SHOULD she have to wait to get six figures?? Jesus, I'm the smelliest hippy around but I have NO IDEA how anyone could have a problem with this woman taking a job. Unreal.

It's not just about her personally. You don't see anything wrong with an economy where a highly-trained scientist can't work in her field? It seems to me that we collectively lose out when someone trained in something useful - pharmacology - ends up having to go into a field that has nothing to do with that and just involves making money from money.


Note to crank - If the medical field had been left alone by the left-leaning governments of the world, and allowed to be a truly private enterprise, this girl would be a gold mine>.

and yes, I'll admit, we would all be on a steady diet of narcotics and methamphetamine, but that's not the point.
 
2011-12-05 11:13:40 AM

m2313: skullkrusher: it wasn't meant to be a strawman. It's just the only existence I find plausible given your desires.
You don't get an industrial society with differentiated labor through anarchistic workers collectives.
You get tribes who hunt, maybe some farming. You don't get cars and iPads and modern medicine.

Well then I respectfully disagree.
I reject the Primitivist implication that technology exclusively shapes society without the other way around. Technology's use is also a result of social interaction in society. Given a different type of society there would be different uses/types of technology. In Spain they were able to run car factories and such. I believe you could get the same levels of technology but different types or uses.
I do submit that a lack of centralization would definitely slow the development of technology but I do not believe it would be incompatible with it.


it works when the collective is parter of a larger, capitalist society. I fully, completely, 100% support people voluntarily organizing collectively - either for their whole lives - or just to own and work with machines they collectively own with their fellow workers.
It's when you suggest this is possible for all to be this way I have an issue. Without a coercive government it would never happen. Without a coercive government, even voluntary communes could never happen because those less inclined to cooperation and kinship will come and take your shiat.
 
2011-12-05 11:15:35 AM

angrycrank: You don't see anything wrong with an economy where a highly-trained scientist can't work in her field?


img1.fark.net: The economy hasn't been doing all that well lately. That doesn't mean it's society's fault that people are unemployed.
 
2011-12-05 11:15:52 AM

ArachnidDude: angrycrank: DROxINxTHExWIND: Famous Thamas: She's gonna have a great time as a junior analyst building all those spreadsheets and reports for the seniors. Could she make a cool six figures one day? Sure, after 5-10 years of working 70-80 hour weeks. Even then, only if she's lucky...

What the fark is wrong with you people? How hard SHOULD she have to work and how long SHOULD she have to wait to get six figures?? Jesus, I'm the smelliest hippy around but I have NO IDEA how anyone could have a problem with this woman taking a job. Unreal.

It's not just about her personally. You don't see anything wrong with an economy where a highly-trained scientist can't work in her field? It seems to me that we collectively lose out when someone trained in something useful - pharmacology - ends up having to go into a field that has nothing to do with that and just involves making money from money.

Note to crank - If the medical field had been left alone by the left-leaning governments of the world, and allowed to be a truly private enterprise, this girl would be a gold mine>.

and yes, I'll admit, we would all be on a steady diet of narcotics and methamphetamine, but that's not the point.


I lolled at you suggesting the medical industry suffers because of government.
 
2011-12-05 11:16:17 AM
I'm guessing that she'll be making around $35k, and expected to put in 80 hours. That works out to $8.41, which is indeed only slightly above the $7.25 minimum wage.
 
2011-12-05 11:17:37 AM

skullkrusher: m2313: skullkrusher: it wasn't meant to be a strawman. It's just the only existence I find plausible given your desires.
You don't get an industrial society with differentiated labor through anarchistic workers collectives.
You get tribes who hunt, maybe some farming. You don't get cars and iPads and modern medicine.

Well then I respectfully disagree.
I reject the Primitivist implication that technology exclusively shapes society without the other way around. Technology's use is also a result of social interaction in society. Given a different type of society there would be different uses/types of technology. In Spain they were able to run car factories and such. I believe you could get the same levels of technology but different types or uses.
I do submit that a lack of centralization would definitely slow the development of technology but I do not believe it would be incompatible with it.

it works when the collective is parter of a larger, capitalist society. I fully, completely, 100% support people voluntarily organizing collectively - either for their whole lives - or just to own and work with machines they collectively own with their fellow workers.
It's when you suggest this is possible for all to be this way I have an issue. Without a coercive government it would never happen. Without a coercive government, even voluntary communes could never happen because those less inclined to cooperation and kinship will come and take your shiat.


In places such as Mexico, Argentina, etc. these co-ops exist in spite of government violence done towards them. The coercive state goes against their interests.
They use volunteer militia instead of a top-down police force.
 
2011-12-05 11:19:39 AM

Beluga Heights: ArachnidDude: angrycrank: DROxINxTHExWIND: Famous Thamas: She's gonna have a great time as a junior analyst building all those spreadsheets and reports for the seniors. Could she make a cool six figures one day? Sure, after 5-10 years of working 70-80 hour weeks. Even then, only if she's lucky...

What the fark is wrong with you people? How hard SHOULD she have to work and how long SHOULD she have to wait to get six figures?? Jesus, I'm the smelliest hippy around but I have NO IDEA how anyone could have a problem with this woman taking a job. Unreal.

It's not just about her personally. You don't see anything wrong with an economy where a highly-trained scientist can't work in her field? It seems to me that we collectively lose out when someone trained in something useful - pharmacology - ends up having to go into a field that has nothing to do with that and just involves making money from money.

Note to crank - If the medical field had been left alone by the left-leaning governments of the world, and allowed to be a truly private enterprise, this girl would be a gold mine>.

and yes, I'll admit, we would all be on a steady diet of narcotics and methamphetamine, but that's not the point.

I lolled at you suggesting the medical industry suffers because of government.


Well I'm lolling back because what I said is that her job prospects suffered.

All big industry loves government money and hates government control. The two entities are mutual parasites and this is why OWS will not change one single thing.
 
2011-12-05 11:19:49 AM

Famous Thamas: She's gonna have a great time as a junior analyst building all those spreadsheets and reports for the seniors. Could she make a cool six figures one day? Sure, after 5-10 years of working 70-80 hour weeks. Even then, only if she's lucky...


You mean to tell me that to get a job paying in the six figures or higher one must actually pay some sort of dues? You must work your way up from the bottom, become competent and excel? Wow, and to think I thouht you just showed up at the door, filled out a quick application and they paid you a few hundred thousand a year. I had no idea you actually had to work for it!
 
2011-12-05 11:20:08 AM

bhcompy: Not worthless. Biomedical engineering field also has certifications, the article doesn't mention if she has them. Also, NYC isn't the best place for biomed. Places like San Diego, Orange County, etc have strong biomed presences, and are on the other side of the country.

Biggest problem with these OWS kids is that they expect shiat to come to them. Hell, this girl looks healthy. The armed forces take all sorts of engineers, and an advanced degree generally means you can go in as an officer.


To be honest, having been in the field for 7+ years now, I'm not aware of any BME certifications. But I agree with you that NYC is not the best place for biomed. I do disagree that all OWS 'kids' expect shiat to come to them. While some of them do seem to have that misguided attitude, plenty of protesters that I personally know have jobs and are more concerned with discoupling Wall St. and the government, in addition to secondary education financial reform.

DROxINxTHExWIND: What? If there is no demand for her services, why should she be paid a high wage simply because she went to school for a long time? There has to be a demand for your service. If what you can do does not produce or contribute to the production of a prodict or service that can be traded for money, there is very little incentive for anyone to pay you.


Do you really think there is no demand for new medicines and medical technology? Frankly, I'm not sure why she's having trouble finding work, it is possible she is just a shiatty scientist and would be better in her new Wall St. job.
 
2011-12-05 11:23:04 AM

OBBN: Famous Thamas: She's gonna have a great time as a junior analyst building all those spreadsheets and reports for the seniors. Could she make a cool six figures one day? Sure, after 5-10 years of working 70-80 hour weeks. Even then, only if she's lucky...

You mean to tell me that to get a job paying in the six figures or higher one must actually pay some sort of dues? You must work your way up from the bottom, become competent and excel? Wow, and to think I thouht you just showed up at the door, filled out a quick application and they paid you a few hundred thousand a year. I had no idea you actually had to work for it!


80 hour work weeks goes a bit beyond "paying your dues."
It's more like "being raped for all you have."
 
2011-12-05 11:23:41 AM
fta:
The starting salary as a junior analyst is near minimum wage, but in time, she can earn a cool six figures, assured Kaufman.


Yeah, sure... Just like every McDonald's employee.
 
2011-12-05 11:24:06 AM

angrycrank: DROxINxTHExWIND: Famous Thamas: She's gonna have a great time as a junior analyst building all those spreadsheets and reports for the seniors. Could she make a cool six figures one day? Sure, after 5-10 years of working 70-80 hour weeks. Even then, only if she's lucky...

What the fark is wrong with you people? How hard SHOULD she have to work and how long SHOULD she have to wait to get six figures?? Jesus, I'm the smelliest hippy around but I have NO IDEA how anyone could have a problem with this woman taking a job. Unreal.

It's not just about her personally. You don't see anything wrong with an economy where a highly-trained scientist can't work in her field? It seems to me that we collectively lose out when someone trained in something useful - pharmacology - ends up having to go into a field that has nothing to do with that and just involves making money from money.



Look, I'd like for all of us to have well paying jobs that support us, regardless of whether we had the wherewithal, the support, the money, and the time to pursue an advanced degree. I think people are caught up on the fact that she's PHD. If her field really needed her to make money, she'd be working in it. And this IS about her personally. She can't feed every protester in NY. At the end of the day she is the only person responsible for her own well being. She should have to starve until the ENTIRE financial system has been blown and recreated?
 
2011-12-05 11:26:30 AM

AntiNorm: angrycrank: You don't see anything wrong with an economy where a highly-trained scientist can't work in her field?

[img1.fark.net image 54x11]: The economy hasn't been doing all that well lately. That doesn't mean it's society's fault that people are unemployed.


It's not about fault. It's that society suffers when we aren't able to make use of the talent and education people have.

And I believe a point of the OWS protesters is that the economy is not doing well in part because wall street farked it up.
 
2011-12-05 11:27:41 AM

trappedspirit: jst3p: trappedspirit: How is this a minimum wage job? There's lots of fail here this morning.

Starting with your inability to RTFA apparently.

Don't you mean my unability? Nice jorb!


You don't even try anymore, do you?
 
2011-12-05 11:28:10 AM

stevetherobot: Then: OWS protestors should get off their asses and get jobs!

Now: She got off her ass and got a job? She's a sellout and a hypocrite!


inorite?

Two Dogs Farking: Joe Blowme: HAHAHAH hipocracy, how does it work?

Start by breaking a hip? I think that's gerontocracy.

Did you mean hypocrisy?


No. Hipocracy. As in, a society run by the Hippocratic Oath. But, I don't think the girl in TFA is THAT kind of doctor.
 
2011-12-05 11:28:12 AM
"John Thomas" trifecta now in play (see article below: "England won't be leaking Julian Assange to Sweden just yet")
 
2011-12-05 11:29:36 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: She took a job in a DIFFERENT field (analyst) that she knows nothing about and is starting at the bottom and can eventually earn 6 figures.


...until the layoff comes.
 
2011-12-05 11:30:04 AM
Oh that sounds like an excellent job.

70 hour weeks. Shiatty pay. Probably shiatty traffic on the way to work.

Then that lambent headed douche yelling "GO GO GO" over the PA system at 8 am. Awesome.

I'd give it about two weeks before I walked in front of a bus.
 
2011-12-05 11:30:25 AM
When it takes a PhD to get a minimum-wage job, how are those without supposed to work at McDonalds?

This doesn't make me feel any better.
 
2011-12-05 11:30:41 AM

thomps: this smacks of one of those stories politicians tell during their speeches about the down on their luck constituent whose life was made better by the politician's policies. i guess what i'm saying is, this sounds staged.


Prety much. Sounds like an idea they stole from radio.
 
2011-12-05 11:33:08 AM
Is this a trailer for a remake of "Trading Places"?
 
2011-12-05 11:36:17 AM

RexTalionis: Fissile: Most people waste their time...and money.... pursuing a Ph.D.

The Ph.D. Glut Revisited (new window)

I've got a friend doing her marine biology PhD. I don't even know whether there's any demand at all for that kind of doctorate.


She could hook up with the whale wars folks. Actually there's a few in CA I see openings for occasionally, but all entry level researcher stuff.
 
2011-12-05 11:36:54 AM
I guess you can say he'll be a (puts on glasses) "Token" hippie?

/YYYYEEEAAAAAHHHHH!!!
 
2011-12-05 11:40:58 AM

CrispFlows: trappedspirit: How is this a minimum wage job? There's lots of fail here this morning.

Costs of living.

Surely, you don't think anyone can live within 15 miles of NYC with a $7.25 per hour wage, do you?


Yup. You can get by on 8 bucks an hour in say, Hermiston, OR... NYC, not so much
 
2011-12-05 11:41:17 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: xanadian: RodneyToady: A near minimum wage job for a Ph.D. in a STEM field. Stellar.

Indeed. This might almost qualify for the [FAIL] tag.

That is the problem with the OWS entitled participation trophy kids.

She took a job in a DIFFERENT field (analyst) that she knows nothing about and is starting at the bottom and can eventually earn 6 figures. And that is bad?

Good for her for being willing to work and prove herself in a new field instead of whining.


You sound like someone who TOTALLY gets the whole point of OWS. Seriously.
 
2011-12-05 11:42:47 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: angrycrank: DROxINxTHExWIND: Famous Thamas: She's gonna have a great time as a junior analyst building all those spreadsheets and reports for the seniors. Could she make a cool six figures one day? Sure, after 5-10 years of working 70-80 hour weeks. Even then, only if she's lucky...

What the fark is wrong with you people? How hard SHOULD she have to work and how long SHOULD she have to wait to get six figures?? Jesus, I'm the smelliest hippy around but I have NO IDEA how anyone could have a problem with this woman taking a job. Unreal.

It's not just about her personally. You don't see anything wrong with an economy where a highly-trained scientist can't work in her field? It seems to me that we collectively lose out when someone trained in something useful - pharmacology - ends up having to go into a field that has nothing to do with that and just involves making money from money.


Look, I'd like for all of us to have well paying jobs that support us, regardless of whether we had the wherewithal, the support, the money, and the time to pursue an advanced degree. I think people are caught up on the fact that she's PHD. If her field really needed her to make money, she'd be working in it. And this IS about her personally. She can't feed every protester in NY. At the end of the day she is the only person responsible for her own well being. She should have to starve until the ENTIRE financial system has been blown and recreated?


You've missed the point entirely.

I have no problem that she took the job. I'd have done the same myself in her shoes. I do have a problem that while there are numerous illnesses out there that a biomedical researcher could be looking at, people qualified to do it can't find positions because of the economy.

It's not about recreating the entire financial system, but about increasing investment (including government investment) into R & D.

I do find it ironic that while the usual response to people who have trouble getting jobs right out of school is "well, you shouldn't have majored in philosophy of history, English, and women't studies, hyuk hyuk." And yet no rethinking when someone with a bona fide useful degree is in the same boat.
 
2011-12-05 11:44:10 AM

stryker4526: If you ARE using university as "calculated leverage to get a job" you are bastardizing the entire purpose of the institution in the first place. If you want to just learn a skill to get a job, go to vocational school or do an apprenticeship. If you want to actually be educated, go to university.


Weird. You seem to think the two are mutually exclusive, and that vocational schools have respected Finance, Economics, Law, Medicine, Engineering, Accounting, and Computer Science programs that are as desired by employers as university study.

We can agree to disagree about the "entire purpose of the institution" (the state doesn't subsidize it just to promote rich inner lives). If you don't think employability and financial success is a a legitimate and virtuous goal of study (among many legitimate and virtuous goals), that's fine. However, these threads are consistently filled with people simultaneously promoting that view while bemoaning that, as it turns out, it's remarkably difficult to keep the lights on with the kind of jobs you can get with eight years of 18th Century Slavic Women's Literature. If people think that their degree shows they have merit as an employee and should pull more hiring preference than it does, let's have that conversation, but let's be honest about what we're talking about.

stainedglassdoll: Do you really think there is no demand for new medicines and medical technology? Frankly, I'm not sure why she's having trouble finding work, it is possible she is just a shiatty scientist and would be better in her new Wall St. job.


I was wondering about this, myself.
 
2011-12-05 11:47:39 AM

RodneyToady: A near minimum wage job for a Ph.D. in a STEM field. Stellar.


For completeness: Her income will almost certainly get a BIG boost from bonuses.
 
2011-12-05 11:50:02 AM

freewill: stainedglassdoll: Do you really think there is no demand for new medicines and medical technology? Frankly, I'm not sure why she's having trouble finding work, it is possible she is just a shiatty scientist and would be better in her new Wall St. job.

I was wondering about this, myself.


the only things i see when googling her name are either related to this article or the fact that her or someone else with her name in nyc is a hardcore 9/11 truther and minecraft player. what that all means, i don't know.
 
2011-12-05 11:50:19 AM

m2313: EWreckedSean: They didn't risk anything, invest anything, innovate anything.

Workers risk more and use more than the owners.
The investment comes from wealth skimmed from other people.
Innovation can come from anybody, but it will still just be an idea unless they have someone put it into form and make it real.
discovering something does not entitle you to an income from it. Take, for example, someone who discovers a flower in a wood. That, in itself, will generate no income of any kind. Unless the flower is picked and taken to a market, the discoverer cannot "profit" from discovering it. If the flower is left untouched then it is available for others to appropriate unless some means are used to stop them (such as guarding the flower). This means, of course, limiting the discovery potential of others, like the state enforcing copyright stops the independent discovery of the same idea, process or product.
As such, "discovery" is not sufficient to justify non-labour income as an idea remains an idea unless someone applies it. To generate an income (profit) from a discovery you need to somehow take it to the market and, under capitalism, this means getting funds to invest in machinery and workplaces. However, these in themselves do nothing and, consequently, workers need to be employed to produce the goods in question. If the costs of producing these goods is less than the market price, then a profit is made. Does this profit represent the initial "discovery"? Hardly for without funds the idea would have remained just that. Does the profit represent the contribution of "capital"? Hardly, for without the labour of the workers the workplace would have remained still and the product would have remained an idea.
Individuals do see new potential and act in innovative ways to create new products or processes. However, this is not the source of surplus value. This is because an innovation only becomes a source of profits once it actually produced, i.e. once workers have toiled to create it (in the case of new goods) or used it (in the case of new production techniques). An idea in and of itself produces nothing unless it is applied. The reason why profits result from innovation is due to the way the capitalist firm is organised rather than any inherent aspect of innovation.
The question now arises whether profits are justified as a reward for those who made the decision to innovate in the first place. This, however, fails for the obvious reason that capitalism is marked by a hierarchical organisation of production. It is designed so that a few make all the decisions while the majority are excluded from power. As such, to say that capitalists or managers deserve their profits due to innovation is begging the question. Profits which are claimed to flow from innovation are, in fact, the reward for having a monopoly, namely the monopoly of decision making within the workplace, rather than some actual contribution to production. The only thing management does is decide which innovations to pursue and to reap the benefits they create. In other words, they gain a reward simply due to their monopoly of decision making power within a firm. Yet this hierarchy only exists because of capitalism and so can hardly be used to defend that system and the appropriation of surplus value by capitalists.
"innovation" and "entrepreneurialism" is not limited to a few great people but rather exists in all of us. While the few may currently monopolise "entrepreneurialism" for their own benefit, an economy does not need to work this way. Decision making need not be centralised in a few hands. Ordinary workers can manage their own productive activity, innovate and make decisions to meet social and individual needs (i.e. practice "entrepreneurialism"). This can be seen from various experiments in workers' control where increased equality within the workplace actually increases productivity and innovation. As these experiments show workers, when given the chance, can develop numerous "good ideas" and, equally as important, produce them. A capitalist with a " ...


You say business and innovation only come to exist with labor. That's putting the horse before the part. Labor only exists when somebody is willing to risk and capitalize on an idea. Be it a business owner or a group of workers banding together to form their own venture. Not too shockingly to most of us, it tends to be the former, not the later, that creates successful businesses. Labor is necessary, but it is also in abundance. A worker doesn't remotely risk more than somebody who starts a business. Anybody who believes that has never been involved in a start up before. A worker has almost no risk, excepting some risky fields, and the risk that they are investing their time poorly. A business goes under, a worker simply goes and finds another job.
 
2011-12-05 11:51:55 AM

thomps: freewill: stainedglassdoll: Do you really think there is no demand for new medicines and medical technology? Frankly, I'm not sure why she's having trouble finding work, it is possible she is just a shiatty scientist and would be better in her new Wall St. job.

I was wondering about this, myself.

the only things i see when googling her name are either related to this article or the fact that her or someone else with her name in nyc is a hardcore 9/11 truther and minecraft player. what that all means, i don't know.


OWSers are planning domestic terrorism?
 
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