words

As a religious person, I don't always agree with Jillette on things when he talks about religion. But I thought he was spot on here.

The way that American politicians pander to religion is shameful.

Wait- the major candidates are religious? But they always downplay it and avoid broadcasting it in the public square! I hadn't even noticed.

As an atheist I find myself irritated that anyone would think Penn represents me in any way. Between him and Hitchens he gives atheists a bad name. It is possible to be an atheist and NOT be a libertarian douchenozzle.

2wolves: WhoIsWillo: Penn Jillette doesn't understand faith. That's not exactly news.

If you're implying that you do understand faith please explain it to me.


Wow was that a stupid question to ask. Even the tards that believe that the Noah's Ark story REALLY HAPPENED understand faith.

fusillade762: Between him and Hitchens he gives atheists a bad name

What's wrong with Hitchens? I thought he was the curmudgeonly but likable one. Is he suddenly a bad guy, now? I can never keep track. I thought Dawkins was supposed to be the big meanie because he's exceptionally blunt.

Personally, I find Penn Jillette very entertaining, but not possessed of a depth of intellect.

skinnycatullus: ZAZ: I'm not watching the video either but Google found me a few highlights:

Those are from the very beginning and kind of isolated from their contexts, as if he were just throwing them out as observations instead of integrating them into his overall point.

Perhaps one of you would volunteer to transcribe the video if it bothers you so much that one doesn't exist. They don't just spring from thin air, ya know.

THIS! It would be nice to know what he is saying due to my hearing loss.

/Google transcription is full of fail.

That was possibly the smartest analysis of religion in America. Everybody should watch this video...

CapnBlues: I wish we could all be this entertaining and thought provoking, rather than just knee-jerk and hateful. I include myself in that evaluation.

this, this, this, this and this.

Shamelessly stolen from Britney Spear's Speculum (sic)

What I find strikingly similar, is the way conservatives discuss and present OWS and discuss and present Atheists/atheism

Ha, I listened to it, it was well done. In the end, I took it as religion being more tribalistic than practical, and that's why it's so effective at bypassing the "4th" wall of everyday conversation. If you dig into the real details, it all doesn't make sense, so in the end it's because your friends and family did it, and you're going to defend it as a way of defending your values.

WhoIsWillo: Penn Jillette doesn't understand faith doublethink. That's not exactly news.

Fixed. It's possible to believe the literal truth of a bible and simultaneously not believe it. Of course, most people who say they are literalists haven't actually read a bible, they've just gone by what others have told them.

/It's a pity he didn't talk about Ron Paul, given that both of them claim to be libertarians.

66dude: skinnycatullus: ZAZ: I'm not watching the video either but Google found me a few highlights:

Those are from the very beginning and kind of isolated from their contexts, as if he were just throwing them out as observations instead of integrating them into his overall point.

Perhaps one of you would volunteer to transcribe the video if it bothers you so much that one doesn't exist. They don't just spring from thin air, ya know.

THIS! It would be nice to know what he is saying due to my hearing loss.

/Google transcription is full of fail.

Transcriptions of speech lose inflection and therefor also some context. Even including little used forms of punctuation or the sarcasm font a lot is lost.

Better to listen to spoken arguments first. Transcriptions are to help you recall accurately what you heard earlier.

/I had no idea he said that due to your hearing loss

But what does David Copperfield think?

/atheist

I love how he talks about agnosticism

Warning, it's on that grandma murdering child raping dog fisting neo nazi brown shirt Bill Maher's show.

ZAZ: I'm not watching the video either but Google found me a few highlights:

Bill Clinton is the most religious president we've had.

Mitt Romney: "Under his pants, he is wearing magic underwear." And so on in that vein.

"I'm surprised by the number of atheist free thinkers that support Obama and their argument is essentially, he's lying about being religious 'cause you have to do that to get elected. It's a horrible reason to like somebody. I like him because he might be a liar. Horrible."

(My own observation on the preceding: Some conservatives like Romney because they think his liberal positions are lies to get elected.)

Bachmann is more blasphemous of her own nature than Jillette can be if he tries.

Also:

"Ecumenical 'Christian' as an identity used to be baptist v. methodist v. pentacostal v. etc. and they used to be a lot weaker because of it."

"Obama's church was just as crazy as Palin's church."

He also makes a long dissertation about the difference between christian actions and christian statements. More specifically couched in the terms of how they DON'T, say, stone a man to death for working on the sabbath but they DO say, "I believe that the bible is the literal world of god."

I take issue with his statement that Obama's church was as crazy as Palin's. Being loud and being musical is not performing exorcisms and setting. I also don't think Obama is LYING about his religion but I think he is less likely than any given republican to push the government more towards theocracy. I've never heard atheists who felt differently, but perhaps I just don't know all the ones who do.

And his argument about how there seems to be a "code" where a politican says, "I pray to god for answers every night" what they actually mean is this big mystery would be more compelling to me if I hadn't already visited that train of thought and listened to some of the theists' answers. The rules in Leviticus do or don't apply because of translation errors, or that any confusion must be clarified through prayer. That the conclusions you come to will be god answering you.

Basically, like WhoIsWillo said, Penn Jillette doesn't understand faith. These "bug-nutty batshiat crazy people" believe ALL that "bug-nutty batshiat crazy" stuff, and when they act normal, it's because they've rationalized their beliefs and their surroundings through "bug-nutty bat-shiat crazy" rationalizations. And the thing is, I don't think I've ever seen the man actually parse through twisted logic to understand other people's viewpoints. This has doubtless serves him to make jokes and call things "bullshiat" and I don't begrudge him those jokes or that quite successful television show. But I think that is his stumbling block here, he just doesn't "get" how people can hold diametrically opposed viewpoints, and truth be told, I think that's why he never notices his own.

I would have thought Fark would be Penn's base of support. I guess not. He's a bit too libertarian for me, but I found his thoughts on this matter interesting. I found it paticularly intersting to hear that his father is very religious. My mother is VERY religious, and I find that the atheists that are most adamant are the ones who have had to deal with religious family members.

Saying "I believe the Bible is the word of God" sounds batshiat crazy, but it doesn't mean that one believes there were talking snakes.

I asked a priest this once, and he gave me a pat on the head and said "Don't you think that, if there is a God, that He would be smart enough to know how to use metaphors?"

I'm an atheist and I think Penn Jillette is a arrogant a##hole. I watched a entire special were he bashed Gandi for 30 minutes for believing in a higher power. Hey, he lived a life of poverty and led millions of people to freedom. What have you done with your life Penn? You're paid outrageous amounts of money to do magic shows in the phoniest, most worthless city in America. Congratulation.

Ohh and btw, growing a goatees not going to give you a jawline. Your still a fat F*ck.

doyner: Zmog: Saying "I believe the Bible is the word of God" sounds batshiat crazy, but it doesn't mean that one believes there were talking snakes.

I asked a priest this once, and he gave me a pat on the head and said "Don't you think that, if there is a God, that He would be smart enough to know how to use metaphors?"

Then obviously you need to help some of us identify what is metaphor and what is literal truth in that book.

Yeah, I asked that too. The answer was "Does it matter?"

doyner: Then obviously you need to help some of us identify what is metaphor and what is literal truth in that book.

That Caesar fellow is definitely a metaphor too. That why Tea Partier jesus freaks ignore the Render unto Caesar what is Casesar's part.

Tyrone Slothrop: WhoIsWillo: Penn Jillette doesn't understand faith doublethink. That's not exactly news.

Fixed. It's possible to believe the literal truth of a bible and simultaneously not believe it. Of course, most people who say they are literalists haven't actually read a bible, they've just gone by what others have told them.

/It's a pity he didn't talk about Ron Paul, given that both of them claim to be libertarians.

MOST people overlook RON PAUL's religious side. Thing about RON PAUL is that he doesn't bring it up, because he believes (correctly) that he'd have more success letting fellow dominionists make theocratic policy at the state level than continuing to fight and lose the battle for federal religious mandates.

Zmog: Saying "I believe the Bible is the word of God" sounds batshiat crazy, but it doesn't mean that one believes there were talking snakes.

I asked a priest this once, and he gave me a pat on the head and said "Don't you think that, if there is a God, that He would be smart enough to know how to use metaphors?"

You seemed to missed the fact that Penn said "literal word of god" There are many christians who believe the bible is literal. As in the earth is 5000-6000 years old, people lives to nearly 1000 years old, and yes, talking snakes.

Amish Tech Support: I watched a entire special were he bashed Gandi for 30 minutes for believing in a higher power.

Actually, he bashed Ghandi for being a racist bigot and sleeping with young girls (literally sleeping, as far as anyone knows, not banging), unless you're thinking of a different Penn-going-against-gurus half-hour than I am. He also went after Saint Theresa for being a neo-flaggelant that didn't want to help the poor, so much as be closer to their suffering, and hence, closer to god. The point they were making was that these people that are held up as avatars of goodness were actually, well- just people. Not even particularly nice people, in many ways.

Zmog: The answer was "Does it matter?"

Well, if it's all metaphors, I could take anything away from the book that I like. Which is what most Christians seem to do. As a rule, religious texts do a marvelous job of providing theological support for the current biases of today. When society changes, amazingly, our interpretation of scriptures will also change, and it turns out the religious text was telling us to do that all along!

See also: feudalism, slavery, prohibition, women's suffrage, anti-gay bigotry, etc.

You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Joe Pesci. Two reasons; first of all, I think he's a good actor. Ok. To me, that counts. Second; he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fark around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that god was having trouble with. For years I asked god to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog. Joe Pesci straightened that cork-sucker out with one visit.

I noticed that of all the prayers I used to offer to god, and all the prayers that I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want. Half the time I don't. Same as god, 50/50. Same as the four leaf clover, the horse shoe, the rabbit's foot, and the wishing well. Same as the mojo man. Same as the voodoo lady who tells your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles. It's all the same; 50/50. So just pick your superstitions, sit back, make a wish and enjoy yourself. And for those of you that look to the Bible for it's literary qualities and moral lessons; I got a couple other stories I might like to recommend for you. You might enjoy The Three Little Pigs. That's a good one. It has a nice happy ending. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood. Although it does have that one x-rated part where the Big-Bad-Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I liked best: ...and all the king's horses, and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty together again. That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no god.