After more lobbying, a compromise to avoid outright repeal, and creative accounting and kickbacks, the companies will survive this rule. They still have a captive market and the barrier to entry is getting ever higher.

I'm sure they will. They will always be there to insure you at a high fee for 60 to 75% coverage. Personally I'd gladly pay $50 a week tax for health insurance. I'd even go with $100 a week tax for full coverage Insurance. That would cut my yearly fees in Half for myself and my wife. we're over $12,000 a year to a for profit company without 100% coverage.

BigGary_: I'm sure they will. They will always be there to insure you at a high fee for 60 to 75% coverage. Personally I'd gladly pay $50 a week tax for health insurance. I'd even go with $100 a week tax for full coverage Insurance. That would cut my yearly fees in Half for myself and my wife. we're over $12,000 a year to a for profit company without 100% coverage.

Why do you hate America?

Forcing companies to actually give you value for your money? What kind of socialistic bullshiat is this?

GAT_00: Forcing companies to actually give you value for your money? What kind of socialistic bullshiat is this?

Imagine if Congress passes a law mandating software/hardware producers spend 80% of their profit...actually, that doesn't sound that bad at all. We might actually make it to Mars sooner than later.

cman: Imagine if Congress passes a law mandating software/hardware producers spend 80% of their profit

Software companies aren't vital to keeping you alive.

GAT_00: Forcing companies to actually give you value for your money? What kind of socialistic bullshiat is this?

Try again Benito.

Dancin_In_Anson: GAT_00: Forcing companies to actually give you value for your money? What kind of socialistic bullshiat is this?

Try again Benito.

And you utterly fail at sarcasm, again.

cman: GAT_00: Forcing companies to actually give you value for your money? What kind of socialistic bullshiat is this?

Imagine if Congress passes a law mandating software/hardware producers spend 80% of their profit...actually, that doesn't sound that bad at all. We might actually make it to Mars sooner than later.

I've got a simple solution for this since I keep seeing this argument - the government needs to get into health insurance. They already underpay government employees compared to the private sector and there won't be a CEO or board of directors getting multi-million dollar salaries so it should be easy for them to spend 80% of the money on actual health care. Then the private insurance companies can compete on service. If the government health plan is that bad people will flock to private insurers.

HeadbangerSmurf: the government needs to get into health insurance.

What do you mean get into? Medicare is the most efficient health care provider in the nation. This part of the law requires 80% of all spending goes towards actual patient care. Medicare puts 95+% towards patient care.

GAT_00: HeadbangerSmurf: the government needs to get into health insurance.

What do you mean get into? Medicare is the most efficient health care provider in the nation. This part of the law requires 80% of all spending goes towards actual patient care. Medicare puts 95+% towards patient care.

Wait, what are you saying? Medicare for all?

Hmm, not a bad idea.

It amazes me, considering how messed up our government bureaucracy is, that people want this same screwed up government behemoth running healthcare. Lunacy.

BigGary_: Wait, what are you saying? Medicare for all?

Hmm, not a bad idea.

I think anyone should be allowed to buy into a single-payer government plan, and then the VA and Medicare can be folded into it to simply things even further.

If government health care is so bad, nobody will buy into it, so it won't be a waste. Honestly, if you're in favor of keeping the system private because government is so bad at running things, you should want a public option. After all, if the private systems are so much better, the failure of a public option will be the clinching proof.

GAT_00: BigGary_: Wait, what are you saying? Medicare for all?

Hmm, not a bad idea.

I think anyone should be allowed to buy into a single-payer government plan, and then the VA and Medicare can be folded into it to simply things even further.

If government health care is so bad, nobody will buy into it, so it won't be a waste. Honestly, if you're in favor of keeping the system private because government is so bad at running things, you should want a public option. After all, if the private systems are so much better, the failure of a public option will be the clinching proof.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for single payer gov't health insurance - but if nobody buys into it, then the costs of running it will be a huge waste, like keeping a store open with no customers.

GaryPDX: It amazes me, considering how messed up our government bureaucracy is, that people want this same screwed up government behemoth running healthcare. Lunacy.

+1 Internets for you, good sir

I see this thread will be a paragon of thoroughly researched, rational discussion.

GaryPDX: It amazes me, considering how messed up our government bureaucracy is, that people want this same screwed up government behemoth running healthcare. Lunacy.

As opposed to the screwed-up behemoths running private health insurance right now? They've consolidated so much in the last 20 years that we're nearly at a corporate version of single payer as it is. In some markets you only have a single carrier to choose now, and take it or leave it. A little stiff competition is always a good thing, right?

GaryPDX: It amazes me, considering how messed up our government bureaucracy is, that people want this same screwed up government behemoth running healthcare. Lunacy.

Because the current system works so damn well...

DarwiOdrade: Don't get me wrong - I'm all for single payer gov't health insurance - but if nobody buys into it, then the costs of running it will be a huge waste, like keeping a store open with no customers.

The deficit would be exactly the same as it is now combined with Medicare, Medicaid and the VA. We would just allow *shock* anyone else to buy into it, and since the average person who would buy into it is healthier than the average senior, I'd expect the deficit would decrease slightly.

Of course, there should also be assistance for low-income people, so maybe not. I'm willing to allow deficits when they actually help people though.

cmunic8r99: I see this thread will be a paragon of thoroughly researched, rational discussion.

Fartbongocare raped my mouth while I was sleeping with socialism!!!

cman: GaryPDX: It amazes me, considering how messed up our government bureaucracy is, that people want this same screwed up government behemoth running healthcare. Lunacy.

+1 Internets for you, good sir

I think we should abolish the VA, too.

It's an absolute abomination that we force our brave veterans to get free, socialized health care paid for with tax dollars stolen from us at the point of a gun instead of letting the market decide which of them are worthy of having their various wounds, injuries, and other assorted health problems treated.

GAT_00: And you utterly fail at sarcasm, again

No, I caught it. However, it's important that you are reminded of the economic model you believe in.

Dancin_In_Anson: No, I caught it. However, it's important that you are reminded of the economic model you believe in.

Yeah. Merging corporate power with the state is totes Gat's MO.

Dancin_In_Anson: GAT_00: And you utterly fail at sarcasm, again

No, I caught it. However, it's important that you are reminded of the economic model you believe in.

GAT_00: DarwiOdrade: Don't get me wrong - I'm all for single payer gov't health insurance - but if nobody buys into it, then the costs of running it will be a huge waste, like keeping a store open with no customers.

The deficit would be exactly the same as it is now combined with Medicare, Medicaid and the VA. We would just allow *shock* anyone else to buy into it, and since the average person who would buy into it is healthier than the average senior, I'd expect the deficit would decrease slightly.

Of course, there should also be assistance for low-income people, so maybe not. I'm willing to allow deficits when they actually help people though.

Not really my point, but not going to belabor it. If single-payer gov't insurance were available, people would buy into it, and it definitely would be worth the spending. On an unrelated note, I just love how DIA and conservatives in general "know" what the other guys believe.

You know what's really funny?

The other day Gary was saying Soros should be shot for profiting off destruction, and yet here he is saying that it's health insurance companies rights to profit of destruction.

Aarontology: You know what's really funny?

The other day Gary was saying Soros should be shot for profiting off destruction, and yet here he is saying that it's health insurance companies rights to profit of destruction.

What, like you expected Gary to be consistent? The man's brain is likely swiss cheesed by now.

DarwiOdrade: On an unrelated note, I just love how DIA and conservatives in general "know" what the other guys believe.

Yeah, and this isn't the first time lately he's tried to make the exact same point. He's gone for more general strawman insults since last time he accused me of being too stupid to know how to use shampoo, he then got backed into a corner where he either had to contradict himself or agree with his own statements that basically every company should have pay limitations and fled.

The reason this industry needs regulation is because it's your life. How much would you pay to keep your life or to no longer be in pain? More than you have to if you had no choice. It's not like this stuff isn't time critical or anything. Think carefully, if you say you don't value your life, you can be hospitalized. By law, you can't neglect your children. (Not implying that you want to.)

Oh.

I didn't know this about Obamacare. Is this just the author's take on the law, or is this for reals? That having been said, I'm not against insurance companies making a profit. I'm just against them doing it unfairly (i.e. rescission, shiat like that).

Doctor Funkenstein: cmunic8r99: I see this thread will be a paragon of thoroughly researched, rational discussion.

Fartbongocare raped my mouth while I was sleeping with socialism!!!

fap.

That would be the provision of the law, called the medical loss ratio, that requires health insurance companies to spend 80% of the consumers' premium dollars they collect-85% for large group insurers-on actual medical care rather than overhead, marketing expenses and profit. Failure on the part of insurers to meet this requirement will result in the insurers having to send their customers a rebate check representing the amount in which they underspend on actual medical care.

Good.

GAT_00: He's gone for more general strawman insults

Why would you consider the definition of your personally held economic beliefs to be an 'insult'? If you can't be proud of them, you might want to reconsider them.

Yeah, that horrible socialist medicine has such horrible outcomes.

Dancin_In_Anson: Why would you consider the definition of your personally held economic beliefs to be an 'insult'?

Because I'm not even close to a fascist. Just because Jonah Goldberg told you liberalism is fascism doesn't mean it actually is.

GAT_00: Dancin_In_Anson: Why would you consider the definition of your personally held economic beliefs to be an 'insult'?

Because I'm not even close to a fascist. Just because Jonah Goldberg told you liberalism is fascism doesn't mean it actually is.

People often get confused between Neoliberalism (which is kind of Fascisty^TM ) and old school Liberalism which is more on the Socialismy^TM end of the continuum.

Dancin_In_Anson: GAT_00: He's gone for more general strawman insults

Why would you consider the definition of your personally held economic beliefs to be an 'insult'? If you can't be proud of them, you might want to reconsider them.

A) You don't know what fascism is, and B) You can't deign to tell people what they believe.

Just because you read a book by Jonah Goldberg once doesn't mean you know what fascism is and what all "liberals" believe.

quickdraw: GAT_00: Dancin_In_Anson: Why would you consider the definition of your personally held economic beliefs to be an 'insult'?

Because I'm not even close to a fascist. Just because Jonah Goldberg told you liberalism is fascism doesn't mean it actually is.

People often get confused between Neoliberalism (which is kind of FascistyTM ) and old school Liberalism which is more on the SocialismyTM end of the continuum.

Neoliberalism is one of those things that doesn't mean much anymore becauseit permeates American politics. Far more Republican theft, but the Dems have too.

Does anyone who is currently *on* medicare/medicaid ever actually post on these threads? Does the input re their actual current experience matter in theoretic/political debate?

/serious question, not trolling

dahmers love zombie: [i.imgur.com image 594x459]

Yeah, that horrible socialist medicine has such horrible outcomes.

Why are they using a line graph for non-temporal and/or non-trending data?

Sorry, I want my health insurance for a reasonable cost. Otherwise, the 1% can pay for it, Rush can pay for it, Boortz or Hannity can pay for it. They've lobbied for the insurance companies, why should I pay? Under the rules we have today, no, let somebody else pay. When the price gets reasonable again (i.e. 150-300/mo), let me know. Otherwise, f**k you.

zoompow: Question to someone who may know the particulars of this sort of thing:

Is there anything to prevent an executive order from opening the Medicare door to anyone who wants to buy in? Essentially saying that from now til date undetermined there will be an open enrollment period to buy into Medicare coverage at the present rates. If this could be done, it would do an end around the public option controversy and make the private insurers either get it together or go under.

.....
This is one of my questions, too (along with my Q above)

Answers, anyone?