People should not be congratulated for doing what they ought to do.

IOW, he had already hoarded enough wealth that he could forgo a lavish post-employment compensation package and still not have to change his lifestyle a bit.

GAT_00: That's impressive. Of course, we shouldn't have to remark on how uncommon and remarkable this is. This is how it should be.

No, it shouldn't. We shouldn't have to rely on CEOs turning down ludicrous compensation offers for mismanaging their companies - they shouldn't get a ludicrous compensation offer for screwing up in the first place.

The system is broken.

If I am not mistaken, Mr. Arpey also rose up through the ranks of American after thirty years. Might have something to do with his sense of responsibility otherwise completely missing today in Corporate America. CF: Meg Whitman and CEO of the Month Club

Sounds like a good dude. Sucks he's gone.

pcwolf: If I am not mistaken, Mr. Arpey also rose up through the ranks of American after thirty years. Might have something to do with his sense of responsibility otherwise completely missing today in Corporate America. CF: Meg Whitman and CEO of the Month Club

Yeah. He seems like a very old-school guy compared to modern CEOs and executives in general. Watching the ultra-rich get rewarded for failure while the rank-and-file workers suffer is one of the major sparks that created OWS.

Cubansaltyballs: As someone who flew on AA yesterday, I can only say American Airlines is the Newt Gingrich of airlines.

They upgrade their planes every couple years???

I am sure the secret CEO mob will have this guy whacked.

I wish Czarly Fiorina would have taken this route. I'd hate her a whole lot less.

DrZiffle: People should not have to be congratulated for doing what they ought to do as a lesson to others.

Sadly this is a rare guy doing what was right in a bad situation. Corporate America has had a CEO fetish where they think paying CEOs progressively more than their performance warrants and then insuring them against failure is the way to go. For an aspiring CEO of a Fortune 500 there is a lot of money pulling a Producers move where you wreck the company and take the payout rather than work hard, sacrifice short term profit for long term return and pay off debts, pensions and other obligations.

GrahamManning: American Airlines is the worst. I've had more delays with them than all the other airlines combined

Was it when you were flying through Chicago?

Say what you will about American, but they never once tried to kill me (Continental) or put me up in a crackhouse hotel (Delta). American's only fault in my experience is that they lost one of my bags for 6 weeks, so I had to buy all new clothes when I arrived at my destination.

/Continental's tried twice.

gadian: He just didn't want any ill will to befall his family if he chose to accept his compensation. A golden parachute VS constant death threats and wondering where your kids are? yeah, not the right atmosphere for that. His commitment was to keeping certain charged political interest groups off his lawn.

The fact that you actually believe that is astounding to me.

HBK: but they never once tried to kill me (Continental)

Please do explain.

I'd be willing to bet if we poked around he might have a mattress full of greenbacks to catch him.

Cndn Bacon: HBK: but they never once tried to kill me (Continental)

Please do explain.

Once when I was 4 we were going IAH-LGA, the cabin filled with smoke, masks fell down, we turned around returned to Houston, and I got to be on the news.

3 years ago, I was flying from Little Rock to IAH, I was asleep and woke up with my stomach in my chest. The plane was dropping, just falling. Everyone started screaming, and we felt like we were dropping for a good thirty seconds, although I'm sure it wasn't nearly as long. Then the plane leveled out.

15 minutes later, the stewardess came the intercom and said "We're sorry about the turbulence, the pilot tells me that we just flew through some jetwash."

And I said out loud, "That's how Goose died."

And this big fella next to me looked like he was really shook up. He asked, "who's Goose, was he a friend of yours?"

And I said "no, nevermind," and went back to sleep.

I used to fly a lot for work, and that had never happened before, and none of my friends, who also flew a lot for work, had heard of a jetwash incident like that.

/CSB

DrZiffle: People should not be congratulated for doing what they ought to do.

Normally, I would agree with you. However, the last couple of decades of executive behavior clearly illustrates that this guy is an exception and that should be noted. The fact that he is an exception is another issue entirely and speaks volumes about how absolutely broken our country appears to be in some very important respects.

He stood for the truth. American Airlines did not have to declare bankruptcy. They did it so the courts would allow them to unilaterally void their union contracts which were supposedly negotiated in good faith. Now they can lower wages, cut benefits, and gut pensions as they wish, with the government's blessing. Workers be damned. Of course, American has been at a disadvantage as most of their competitors have already taken this approach.

Cubansaltyballs: XC2000mr: Cubansaltyballs: As someone who flew on AA yesterday, I can only say American Airlines is the Newt Gingrich of airlines.

They upgrade their planes every couple years???

No. If they sucked any harder, they'd pull the moon out of orbit.

I see you haven't flown US Airways. Trust me if Satan ever ran an airline, it would be US Airways. I still don't think they even know the concept of "customer service". Everytime we deal with them its a horrible/mediocre experience.

/Got stranded in Pittsburgh because they were too cheap to fix the plane and had to fly through Washington Reagan to get back to St. Louis
//NSCSB

I know people love to get upset; but it seems like the vast majority of the time these 'golden parachutes' are negotiated as terms of employment. They are contractually obligated.

For example, if my employment contract says I get two weeks of vacation time and then, let's say I do a really bad job and after 11 months of slacking off, I get fired....the company STILL has to pay me my accrued vacation time. It's part of my employment contract. The fact that I did a bad job, or that I'm getting fired, doesn't change any of that. It's owed to me.

good riddance! the hero here is not the failure of a CEO, but rather the board.

you don't get a golden parachute or severance package when you quit.

usually, when a CEO threatens to quit, the board throws all sorts of cash and deals at them because they think it is worth it for him to stay. Either that didn't happen here, or the guy refused it.

either way he doesn't earn the hero tag after driving a big company into the ditch.

Fark_Guy_Rob: For example, if my employment contract says I get two weeks of vacation time and then, let's say I do a really bad job and after 11 months of slacking off, I get fired....the company STILL has to pay me my accrued vacation time. It's part of my employment contract. The fact that I did a bad job, or that I'm getting fired, doesn't change any of that. It's owed to me.

And you further explain why the system is completely broken.

I guess one of the other concepts was "one of our planes smacked into the WTC".

/just throwing that out there.

Gunther: GAT_00: That's impressive. Of course, we shouldn't have to remark on how uncommon and remarkable this is. This is how it should be.

No, it shouldn't. We shouldn't have to rely on CEOs turning down ludicrous compensation offers for mismanaging their companies - they shouldn't get a ludicrous compensation offer for screwing up in the first place.

The system is broken.

Want to know the farked up part? He didn't mismanage the company.

Fark_Guy_Rob: I know people love to get upset; but it seems like the vast majority of the time these 'golden parachutes' are negotiated as terms of employment. They are contractually obligated.

For example, if my employment contract says I get two weeks of vacation time and then, let's say I do a really bad job and after 11 months of slacking off, I get fired....the company STILL has to pay me my accrued vacation time. It's part of my employment contract. The fact that I did a bad job, or that I'm getting fired, doesn't change any of that. It's owed to me.

I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make. I don't think anybody is angry thinking that the CEOs are just robbing the company without anything contractual allowing them to do so. The fact that these golden parachutes are written into the employment contract as a condition of employment is what people are so angry over.

So, your "clarification" doesn't make any sense to me.

Farxist: good riddance! the hero here is not the failure of a CEO, but rather the board.

you don't get a golden parachute or severance package when you quit.

usually, when a CEO threatens to quit, the board throws all sorts of cash and deals at them because they think it is worth it for him to stay. Either that didn't happen here, or the guy refused it.

either way he doesn't earn the hero tag after driving a big company into the ditch.

He didn't earn it for driving it into a ditch, he earned it because after he drove it into a ditch, he decided he didn't want the "golden parachute". You're right, it's a pathetic standard but then again we saw the folks who drove BoA and Citibank into the ditch make out like kings after they got fired.

Sad state of affairs we live in but the sad thing is what should've been the norm for someone driving a company into a ditch (ie: not taking any bonuses) is sadly the exception in todays business world.

pcwolf: If I am not mistaken, Mr. Arpey also rose up through the ranks of American after thirty years. Might have something to do with his sense of responsibility otherwise completely missing today in Corporate America. CF: Meg Whitman and CEO of the Month Club

Arpey was a member of the MBA Fast Track'ers at AA.

The MBA Fast Track'ers excel at brown-nosing and the creation of Power Point presentations. They minor in taking credit for other peoples work and sabotaging co-workers.

Arpey did not get a "golden parachute" because the company filed for bankruptcy and any such payouts would require the approval of the bankruptcy judge.

But, do not worry that Arpey is going away empty handed. His gold plated pension will be paid to him. AA set up a separate company and funded it to make sure that senior executive pensions would survive a bankruptcy of American Airlines.

HempHead: pcwolf: If I am not mistaken, Mr. Arpey also rose up through the ranks of American after thirty years. Might have something to do with his sense of responsibility otherwise completely missing today in Corporate America. CF: Meg Whitman and CEO of the Month Club

Arpey was a member of the MBA Fast Track'ers at AA.

The MBA Fast Track'ers excel at brown-nosing and the creation of Power Point presentations. They minor in taking credit for other peoples work and sabotaging co-workers.

Arpey did not get a "golden parachute" because the company filed for bankruptcy and any such payouts would require the approval of the bankruptcy judge.

But, do not worry that Arpey is going away empty handed. His gold plated pension will be paid to him. AA set up a separate company and funded it to make sure that senior executive pensions would survive a bankruptcy of American Airlines.

Great, now I'm depressed again.

/Thanks for the info though, those of us outside of DFW never heard of that...especially here in STL after AA finished raping what was left of TWA

Fark_Guy_Rob: I know people love to get upset; but it seems like the vast majority of the time these 'golden parachutes' are negotiated as terms of employment. They are contractually obligated.

For example, if my employment contract says I get two weeks of vacation time and then, let's say I do a really bad job and after 11 months of slacking off, I get fired....the company STILL has to pay me my accrued vacation time. It's part of my employment contract. The fact that I did a bad job, or that I'm getting fired, doesn't change any of that. It's owed to me.

Sure, contracts are contracts but it shouldn't have been in there in the first place is the argument.

Also, AA (and the other airlines) get to void/renogitiate people's contracts all the time when they go through bankruptcy, so I don't think it's cut and dry to just say, "well, their golden parachute is in the contract"

Arpey does retain his lifetime travel and Admirals Club benefits, the footnotes say. And according to American spokesman Sean Collins, he will be able to receive his pension.

"Based on AMR's 2011 proxy statement, Mr. Arpey is entitled to commence his pension upon turning 55 years old," Collins said.

The proxy says that Arpey's pension includes $832,173 in a retirement benefit plan and $3,879,477 in a non-qualified plan.

According to an Securities and Exchange Commission filing made in May, Arpey currently holds 2,455,718 shares, which are worth $785,829.76 at the current price of 32 cents a share.


Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/11/30/3561489/ex-amr-boss-arpey-rece ives-no.html#ixzz1fUqGHeKF

HBK:
I used to fly a lot for work, and that had never happened before, and none of my friends, who also flew a lot for work, had heard of a jetwash incident like that.

/CSB

IANAP, but I'd suspect that what they told you was code for "We almost hit another plane and had to drop altitude like a sumbiatch to get out of their way"

Does American Airlines charge a checked bag fee?

Yes?

Then fark this "ethical" CEO.

/farking tax dodge for the airlines and pain in the ass for the customer

jack21221: Fark_Guy_Rob: I know people love to get upset; but it seems like the vast majority of the time these 'golden parachutes' are negotiated as terms of employment. They are contractually obligated.

For example, if my employment contract says I get two weeks of vacation time and then, let's say I do a really bad job and after 11 months of slacking off, I get fired....the company STILL has to pay me my accrued vacation time. It's part of my employment contract. The fact that I did a bad job, or that I'm getting fired, doesn't change any of that. It's owed to me.

I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make. I don't think anybody is angry thinking that the CEOs are just robbing the company without anything contractual allowing them to do so. The fact that these golden parachutes are written into the employment contract as a condition of employment is what people are so angry over.

So, your "clarification" doesn't make any sense to me.

The outrage I hear always goes something like this...

'CEO of company that went bankrupt/lost X million/billion dollars just got a 10 million dollar bonus! Hell, I'd drive a company into the dirt for less than 10 million. Why do they give a BONUS when they perform SO BADLY!'

So, the answer to that question is 'because they were contractually obligated to do so'.

For most people, a bonus is something the company has no obligation to pay. It's not contractually obligated to them. It's just something the company 'does'. And when their company doesn't make a lot of money, the bonus is something crappy like a coca sampler box.

Why does CEOs get bonuses when the company is doing so badly?!

And the answer is because they were able to negotiate a minimum bonus. It's all part of their compensation package. There is no real difference between getting paid 50k + a 5-10k bonus on performance and getting paid 55k and a 0-5k bonus (I'm sure there are some tax laws/accounting stuff where it does matter - but for the most part, it's the same).

Are people really advocating that companies who are doing poorly should be able to arbitrarily change your compensation? That poor performance gives them the right to break their contractual obligations? I'd think people would be pissed about that.

If people are upset that CEOs get paid too much; that's fine. That's a valid opinion to have. But it's silly to single out CEO bonuses as somehow different than their salary or stock or other benefits. It's all compensation.

Fark_Guy_Rob: I know people love to get upset; but it seems like the vast majority of the time these 'golden parachutes' are negotiated as terms of employment. They are contractually obligated.

For example, if my employment contract says I get two weeks of vacation time and then, let's say I do a really bad job and after 11 months of slacking off, I get fired....the company STILL has to pay me my accrued vacation time. It's part of my employment contract. The fact that I did a bad job, or that I'm getting fired, doesn't change any of that. It's owed to me.

Slight problem with your logic there. You claim these contracts are obligations that must be paid, but the entire point of the airlines declaring bankruptcy is so they can screw over the workers/unions and NOT pay their obligations in pensions or other benefits. The workers had contracts, too. Does contract law only apply if you earn CEO pay in your world?

Fark_Guy_Rob: Are people really advocating that companies who are doing poorly should be able to arbitrarily change your compensation? That poor performance gives them the right to break their contractual obligations? I'd think people would be pissed about that.

But they do! One of the biggest reasons for going into bankruptcy is to blow away their previous contracts to reduce labor costs. It's weird these guys say say, "these pilots get paid too much, let's renegotiate all their contracts to lower the companies costs" but then say, "I'm the one that started the process, my contract is sacrosanct"

DoughyGuy: HBK:
I used to fly a lot for work, and that had never happened before, and none of my friends, who also flew a lot for work, had heard of a jetwash incident like that.

/CSB

IANAP, but I'd suspect that what they told you was code for "We almost hit another plane and had to drop altitude like a sumbiatch to get out of their way"

IANAP, but if I remember Top Gun, and I do, jet wash is when you fly through the superheated air of another jet, so you're probably right. I'd imagine that it would dissipate pretty quickly at 35,000 feet.

Fark_Guy_Rob: Are people really advocating that companies who are doing poorly should be able to arbitrarily change your compensation? That poor performance gives them the right to break their contractual obligations? I'd think people would be pissed about that.

Making a general statement would be contentious, but you could at least see that if you're a CEO who has seen through restructuring/renegotiating/abrogating (whatever verb you want to choose) other contracts/obligations your company has THEN the company's obligations to you are also able to be contested?