Jake Havechek: With abstinence having a spokesperson like Bristol Palin, a paragon of virtue, I am shocked and dismayed at this news.

She claims that Levi got her drunk on wine coolers and she doesn't remember anything.
Ban wine coolers!

Birth control should be free and accessible to all.

cameroncrazy1984: ZAZ: There are studies proving that abstinence education does and does not work. Read whichever kind you want to be true.

Which ones prove it does work? I'd like to see that.

The ones in the Bible

cameroncrazy1984: ZAZ: There are studies proving that abstinence education does and does not work. Read whichever kind you want to be true.

Which ones prove it does work? I'd like to see that.

Check the Wikipedia article on it. Seems there's a couple of low-quality (or otherwise questionable) studies that suggest a small positive effect. Nothing to get excited enough, but it's probably enough for right-wingers to disingenuously claim there's a real controversy.

The christian dogma demands overpopulation .

I wonder if this generation-long focus on abstinence has produced more girls who do butt sex than any previous generation?

cameroncrazy1984: ZAZ: There are studies proving that abstinence education does and does not work. Read whichever kind you want to be true.

Which ones prove it does work? I'd like to see that.

I've seen exactly one study which conclusively showed that an abstinence-only education could be effective. I enjoyed reading it back when it was published but I'm having some trouble tracking it down right now. The noteworthy caveats were:

1) In looking at children aged 13-14 and following them to age 16
2) Where the decision to remain abstinent was phrased only as "waiting until you are ready" instead of anything religious or to make it seem shameful
3) While the instructors never brought up contraception, they gave out accurate information when asked
4) They did not measure pregnancy rates, but fewer individuals from this program had sex or had sex without a condom. This was measured in comparison to two other groups from this study, one which received contraceptive education only and one where they received a mix of contraceptive and pro-abstinence education.
5) This is not how abstinence only education typically works in the US.

tl;dr - Abstinence only education can be effective but not the way the US does it.

SnakeLee: Histidine: 3) While the instructors never brought up contraception, they gave out accurate information when asked

So it's not abstinence only education, then. Someone probably devised a way they could make a workable abstinence centered sex ed class to manufacture a study.

I managed to track down the research paper after all. Here is a news article about it.^

Here is how the research paper described it's abstinence-only education.
The 8-hour abstinence-only intervention encouraged abstinence to eliminate the risk of pregnancy and STIs including HIV. It was designed to (1) increase HIV/STI knowledge, (2) strengthen behavioral beliefs supporting abstinence including the belief that abstinence can prevent pregnancy, STIs, and HIV, and that abstinence can foster attainment of future goals, and (3) increase skills to negotiate abstinence and resist pressure to have sex. It was not designed to meet federal criteria for abstinence-only programs. For instance, the target behavior was abstaining from vaginal, anal, and oral intercourse until a time later in life when the adolescent is more prepared to handle the consequences of sex. The intervention did not contain inaccurate information, portray sex in a negative light, or use a moralistic tone. The training and curriculum manual explicitly instructed the facilitators not to disparage the efficacy of condoms or allow the view that condoms are ineffective to go uncorrected.

Once I found the study I did a little poking around to see what the followup literature says. It suggests that even though this study was effective, if the age group had been a bit older those results could be very different. Not exactly a shocking turn of events but it does show that even when done right, stressing abstinence only really helps when the kids haven't had sex yet.

Someone asks if you believe in god.
You say no.
Then they ask if you believe Jesus is your lord and savior.

The latter part of that statement in the context of that conversation is on par with telling teens to not have sex until marriage.

Sexy teen thread?

Interviewer: Let me ask you another one here on a different topic, Governor, why does Texas continue with abstinence education programs when they don't seem to be working, in fact I think we have the third-highest teen pregnancy rate in the country among all states

Perry: Abstinence... works.

Interviewer: But we're the third-highest teen pregnancy, we have the third-highest teen pregnancy rate among all states in the country, the question in point is, it doesn't seem to be working.

Perry: It, it, it works, uh maybe it's the, uh, maybe it's the way it's being taught, or the way that it's being applied out there. But, the fact of the matter is, it is the best form of, uh, to teach our children.

Interviewer: Can you give me a statistic suggesting it works?

Perry: And I'm, I'm sorry. I'm, I'm just going to tell you, from my own personal life. Abstinence works. And the point is, if we're not teaching it, and if we're not impressing it upon them, then no. but if, if the point is, y'know, we're gonna go, stand up here and say "listen, y'all go have sex and go have the, uh, whatever is going on and we'll work with that, and here's the ways to have safe sex." I'm sorry, you can call me old-fashioned if you want, but that is not what I'm gonna stand up in front of the people of the state of Texas and say that's the way, uh, we need to go and forget about abstinence.

Interviewer: That's, that's not what the, I mean with respect governor, that's not what the question was asking. The question was simply saying; we're spending money on abstinence education, we're the third-highest teen pregnancy rate in, in the country. Is there a problem, disconnect, between one and the other?

Perry: .... I don't know. But it, it, it gets in line with, um... It gets in line with, other programs that we have, that we spend money on and do they work 100% or do they work 5%? And that's a bigger and a better issue than "well we have the third-highest teenage pregnancy rate." Uh... Are we, on the amount of money that we're spending, are we getting a return on that, that is appropriate? And that's-

Interviewer: And, and your belief is that we are?

Perry: I think that those are some dollars that are well spent. For instance, we're spending dollars to check kids for steroids, right? And what'd we find? 7? 15? And we spent X numbers of... of, uh... look, I'm not gonna...

Interviewer: You think that's a poor expenditure?

Perry: I'm saying that it- No, I'm trying to make it comparable here. If that's a good expenditure, then, I would suggest to you the dollars we're spending on abstinence education's a good expenditure.

serial_crusher: What's the scientific term for the method of teaching where they say, "hey look, you should really stay abstinent. But if you insist on being a whoe, use protection so you at least don't get pregnant or AIDS"? Because I think that worked out pretty well for me.

Sex education.

serial_crusher: What's the scientific term for the method of teaching where they say, "hey look, you should really stay abstinent. But if you insist on being a whoe, use protection so you at least don't get pregnant or AIDS"? Because I think that worked out pretty well for me.


That is normal sex ed.

Histidine: SnakeLee: Histidine: 3) While the instructors never brought up contraception, they gave out accurate information when asked

So it's not abstinence only education, then. Someone probably devised a way they could make a workable abstinence centered sex ed class to manufacture a study.

I managed to track down the research paper after all. Here is a news article about it.^

Here is how the research paper described it's abstinence-only education.
The 8-hour abstinence-only intervention encouraged abstinence to eliminate the risk of pregnancy and STIs including HIV. It was designed to (1) increase HIV/STI knowledge, (2) strengthen behavioral beliefs supporting abstinence including the belief that abstinence can prevent pregnancy, STIs, and HIV, and that abstinence can foster attainment of future goals, and (3) increase skills to negotiate abstinence and resist pressure to have sex. It was not designed to meet federal criteria for abstinence-only programs. For instance, the target behavior was abstaining from vaginal, anal, and oral intercourse until a time later in life when the adolescent is more prepared to handle the consequences of sex. The intervention did not contain inaccurate information, portray sex in a negative light, or use a moralistic tone. The training and curriculum manual explicitly instructed the facilitators not to disparage the efficacy of condoms or allow the view that condoms are ineffective to go uncorrected.

Once I found the study I did a little poking around to see what the followup literature says. It suggests that even though this study was effective, if the age group had been a bit older those results could be very different. Not exactly a shocking turn of events but it does show that even when done right, stressing abstinence only really helps when the kids haven't had sex yet.

I'm going to have to look again, but I seem to remember the only "positive" study I've seen basically said:

1) Whether abstinence only education or a more complete education, virtually same percentage of kids are going to lose their virginity before the age of 18.
2) Abstinence only educated kids lost virginity at a slightly later age on average than their more fully educated peers.
3) Teen pregnancy and STD rates among abstinent only educated kids was higher.

So yes, the programs are successful if you are less comfortable with 14 year olds having sex than 16 year olds getting pregnant. You'd need to be pretty twisted to think that, but if in your mind delaying underage sex is worth endangering children then the results are satisfying.

This only tells me that trying to find a nice umbrella to teach many different personality types something, doesn't work.

If you want to reduce sex in teens tell them it will help them learn science.

slayer199: Maybe because it's not practical. If parents want to delude themselves into thinking that they won't have sex because of Jebus (when everyone else around them is having sex), then this is what happens. At least teach the precious snowflakes their options and allow them to make informed decisions. The only truly 100% effective birth-control solution is abstinence...which I'm sure every high school WoW player knows about.

My son is an 18 year-old body-building jock. He's been told since he hit his teens to a) never believe a woman that she's on birth control; b) that birth control is his responsibility, because the kid will certainly be his responsibility; c) that his self-centered life will be over once he becomes a father; d) that no birth control is 100% effective; e) graduate high school, graduate college, get job, get mortgage, get married, THEN have kids...do not deviate from that order.

Is it working? Well, judging by the huge box of condoms he has in his room...he's not abstaining but he's taking precautions and he probably gets laid more than his dad (and considering the hottie he's dating...I can't blame him). I don't know whether to give him a fist pound or smack him upside the head. I just keep telling him that he's not ready for the responsibility of a kid...

Well done. It's going to stick in my throat to give a similar speech to my daughter when she's old enough. But since she'll be the one stuck with the baby and completely confused by the messages given to her by her hellbound agnostic mother and super religious dad she should not want to be put in a position to sort through those options.

/dumb and super religious are like sperm accelerant.
//speaking from experience

I also notice that the more we spend on public education, the worse our schools get.

climate/weather/blah

cameroncrazy1984: Which ones prove it does work? I'd like to see that.

None of them prove anything. They indicate.

Teenage sex... cool kids problems.

Calling abstinence-only sex education "education" is like calling intelligent design in science class "science"

Maybe in the ghetto where they're going to have sex for the government paycheck. I was brought up in an abstinence only home, home schooled for the early grades, and went to an abstinence only high school. I'm waiting for marriage (and I'm in college) and so are most of my friends. Statistics are skewed when you include people that live in regions without traditional values.

Abstinence-only education works about as well as Just Say No did for drug use.

Car_Ramrod: serial_crusher: What's the scientific term for the method of teaching where they say, "hey look, you should really stay abstinent. But if you insist on being a whoe, use protection so you at least don't get pregnant or AIDS"? Because I think that worked out pretty well for me.

Sex education.

While true it is true, a term I heard that needs more currency is the ABC Method. You could sell it as a compromise with abstinence-only fans who are certain the only alternative is encouraging kids to have sex (even though NO school does that.)

- stay Abstinent
- if you don't, at least Be faithful and keep it within the confines of a stable relationship
- if you are going to have sex, use a Condom

Simple, no?