It was an inside job!

Germans?

Don't stop him, he's on a roll.

Inigo_Montoya: Germans?

Forget it, he's rolling.

Inigo_Montoya: Germans?

Aww

Inigo_Montoya: Germans?

So does this make Bush as awesome as FDR, or FDR as awful as Bush?

Pre-law, pre-med, what's the difference.

JC

Inigo_Montoya: Germans?

No, Zee Germans.

On a side note, we sadly forget the real tragedy of December 1941, which caused thousands of eyes to be shot out.

TofuTheAlmighty: So does this make Bush as awesome as FDR, or FDR as awful as Bush?

Yes.

...a new and eerie reminder of FDR's failure to act on a basket load of tips that war was near.

And I stopped reading right there.

I have no doubt that just about everyone knew war was coming- we were already shipping billions of dollars worth of equipment to Britain, France, the Soviet Union, and China starting in March '41 when the Lend-Lease Act was passed.

My bet, and we'll probably never know, is that the Navy moved the carriers out of Pearl Harbor knowing an attack was coming, and that the carriers would be safer out to sea, and possibly could be used in immediate retaliation if the enemy fleet were discovered.

It's also likely that many enemy cyphers were broken already, and being immediately ready to defend or counter attack against a supposed secret attack at Pearl might have tipped that those codes were broken.

That Pearl Harbor happened is most likely testament to a calculated move as to how to best actively enter the war. Receiving the bloody nose first does a hell of a good job of convincing the public to rally to that cause.

Thudfark: And would subby also like to out the 6 people on the face of the earth who didn't already know this?

Hey, I'm pretty sure most people don't know that the Red Ryder BB-gun release was a precursor to the Japanese attack.

I believe the title was, Hirohito Determined to Attack Inside the United States

Thanks FDR Im sure if you had acted on those tips I would still have my grandfather! Okay really we were going to have to get into the war at some point anyway I proably would have still lost my grandfather but I want to rage about something today. AND FURTHERMORE... fark you Army Air Corps for never finding his plane or his body! You assholes drove my grandmother insane LITERALLY!

/Ragequit

TWX: My bet, and we'll probably never know, is that the Navy moved the carriers out of Pearl Harbor knowing an attack was coming, and that the carriers would be safer out to sea, and possibly could be used in immediate retaliation if the enemy fleet were discovered.

It's also likely that many enemy cyphers were broken already, and being immediately ready to defend or counter attack against a supposed secret attack at Pearl might have tipped that those codes were broken.

This might be true, but wouldn't such information be recorded somewhere? Even if was classified then, how much stuff from WWII is still classified today?

Harv72b: /end thread.
//I mean, end entertaining part of thread.

What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is!

Sapper_Topo: AND FURTHERMORE... fark you Army Air Corps for never finding his plane or his body! You assholes drove my grandmother insane LITERALLY!

Why not... "fark you" to the Japanese for (I assume) shooting him down in the first place?

hindsight

Harv72b: USCLaw2010: On a side note, we sadly forget the real tragedy of December 1941, which caused thousands of eyes to be shot out.

[www.onlinemoviesplanet.com image 357x513]

?

I miss you more than Michael Bay missed the mark when he made Pearl Harbor.

Considering half of what got the US super-agitated wasn't the attack, but the undeclared nature of the attack, which was dependent on the Japanese diplomats getting delayed on their way to the secretary of state's office...

There's no way FDR could have planned for the chips to fall that way.

"Tly to bomb the halbol!"

dukeblue219: Sapper_Topo: AND FURTHERMORE... fark you Army Air Corps for never finding his plane or his body! You assholes drove my grandmother insane LITERALLY!

Why not... "fark you" to the Japanese for (I assume) shooting him down in the first place?

Good point! At least he died in the small part of the war that was fought in the US.

/P-38 Pilots FTW
//Holtz Bay Alaska FTL

a new and eerie reminder of FDR's failure to act on a basket load of tips that war was near.

What, like all those tips that indicated that the Japanese were upset with the US and might attack, and if so, probably in California?

In the newly revealed 20-page memo from FDR's declassified FBI file, the Office of Naval Intelligence on December 4 warned, "In anticipation of open conflict with this country, Japan is vigorously utilizing every available agency to secure military, naval and commercial information, paying particular attention to the West Coast, the Panama Canal and the Territory of Hawaii."

OH MY GOD IT'S NEVER BEEN MORE CLEAR

THE JAPANESE WERE GOING TO ATTACK US SOMEWHERE IN THE PACIFIC

7/12 WAS AN INSIDE JOB

TWX: That Pearl Harbor happened is most likely testament to a calculated move as to how to best actively enter the war. Receiving the bloody nose first does a hell of a good job of convincing the public to rally to that cause.

That's why FDR dressed up a bunch of Polish corpses like Japanese and staged the whole attack to get us into the war. That guy was one crafty sumbiatch.

Second greenlight today for this hacktard?

I think a certain Farkmin has a man-crush....

dukeblue219: Sapper_Topo: AND FURTHERMORE... fark you Army Air Corps for never finding his plane or his body! You assholes drove my grandmother insane LITERALLY!

Why not... "fark you" to the Japanese for (I assume) shooting him down in the first place?

Because the Japanese were victims of a "racist war", to borrow the phrase of Tom Hanks. By the mere fact of not being white, anything the Japanese did -- including conquering and brutally subjugating half of Asia and launching the unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor -- could not possibly have been their own fault, but was in fact the ultimate responsibility of the wicked Americans.

It was Horrywood, not Pealr Halbol!

/and Bluto was there, so he knew what he was talking about!

bittermang: TofuTheAlmighty: So does this make Bush as awesome as FDR, or FDR as awful as Bush?

Yes.

The funny thing is that people made the same war-profiteering claims in WWII that they did for the Iraq War. One claim probably had more truth to it than the other, but just kind of funny how the arguments and debates remain the same more than 6 decades later.

Or maybe it's not funny, I dunno. I have had a lot of vodka today.

Yeah, FDR, that guy makes me so MAD! He personally lined up all those fighters at Hickam Field wingtip to wingtip to protect them from sabotage, and personally ignored the radar operators who spotted the Japanese attack coming in. He ORDERED Kimmel to keep the fleet in port to protect it from sabotage. Everybody knows he cut off supplies of oil and steel to the Japanese after they invaded Indochina to help them attack us. FOLLOW THE MONEY!

/The generals and admirals, they make the big mistakes a LOT. No plot required.

What TWX said^ +Sapper-Topo, condolences, seriously. Lucky enough to have known my gramps into my 20's. Thanks ST's gramps:) not forgotten by those who do not wish to be doomed by not learning about the past.

Eirik: TWX: My bet, and we'll probably never know, is that the Navy moved the carriers out of Pearl Harbor knowing an attack was coming, and that the carriers would be safer out to sea, and possibly could be used in immediate retaliation if the enemy fleet were discovered.

It's also likely that many enemy cyphers were broken already, and being immediately ready to defend or counter attack against a supposed secret attack at Pearl might have tipped that those codes were broken.

This might be true, but wouldn't such information be recorded somewhere? Even if was classified then, how much stuff from WWII is still classified today?

Most people who believe this theory also believe that the amount of damage that the Japanese could do was greatly underestimated. After all, it was believed that Pearl harbor was too shallow for torpedoes and the Admirals at the time believed that their battle ships were just about unsinkable from an air attack that didn't contain torpedoes. Well the Japanese designed torpedoes just for Pearl Harbor, and aerial dive bombing had become very deadly indeed.

So lets say this story is true; that the top brass and FDR had fore knowledge that an attack on Pearl Harbor was imminent. After the attack happens, and most of the Pacific fleet is destroyed, what lengths do you think those in power would go to destroy and record of that fore knowledge?

Maybe something exists somewhere that proves this one way or another. Until then, it's just a story; a conspiracy theory with no proof.

/like George Bush was Kennedy's assassin

TWX: Receiving the bloody nose first does a hell of a good job of convincing the public to rally to that cause.

The tried and tested "make sure the bully punches you first, before you fight him" defense.

/But Teacher, he started it.
//You both get detention.

Oh, Subs! It took me a minute, but then I laughed.

/you devil, you

Rufus Lee King: "Tly to bomb the halbol!"

Do a barrel roll!

And where is my picture of Leslie?
Maybe I'm too early.
But I am serious.

Hindsight is 20-20.

I imagine there are memos every day about someone saying something vague about possibly someday maybe doing something to someone somewhere at sometime in the possibly near future that land on the desks of people in the intelligence agencies and on the president's desk. But we can't live in perpetual fear and marshal law to try to prevent these possible attacks when only one or two of them every 10 years ever has anything come of it. So it's easy to look back and go "YOU HAD A MEMO!" but rarely is that sort of reaction present for all the other memos that were dismissed.

give me doughnuts: Not one pic of Bluto?


For shame, Fark. For shame.


Better?


/Still love the tank busting through the paint store