RON PAUL

This should fix things.

So now we are bailing out Europe. WTF?

video man: I'm not that in-depth on economics, but whatever is happening in Europe, I don't want the US to be part of it.

This. We sort of have problems of our own at the moment.

Balchinian: So now we are bailing out Europe. WTF?

Strangely enough, the total collapse of the European economy would not be very good for us. It's a good idea to put at least some effort into preventing it.

Balchinian: So now we are bailing out Europe. WTF?

Because if the Euro collapses, the US is farked too.

Synchronised Cliff Diving (new window)

I understood all the words in that article, but still have no real idea what it was about:

The U.S. Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank and the central banks of Canada, Britain, Japan and Switzerland said in a joint statement they had agreed to lower the cost of existing dollar swap lines by 50 basis points from December 5.

Other measures included setting up bilateral swap arrangements between the central banks so that any bank could tap additional liquidity in their own currencies if necessary.

Buh?

fireclown: video man: I'm not that in-depth on economics, but whatever is happening in Europe, I don't want the US to be part of it.

This. We sort of have problems of our own at the moment.

Well, it's a good thing that all world economies are completely segmented, and that there is no bleed-over of financial crises from one to another due to extensive co-dependence.

Oh, wait...

gwydion56: What if I don't own stocks, but do have a whipping post and some floggers?

Then you send me an invitation whenever you decide to have a party.

I own stocks, but still don't quite see how this helps me. Also, don't see how this would hurt me. Possibly due to the lack of any actual information in the article. So anyone who gets fired up either way over this, hopefully is reading another article, or can clearly explain how the fifty basis points on dollar swap lines will affect us as individuals.

/former licensed stock broker
//I AM THE 99%
///yet somehow I have investments

The isolationists are out in full force over this matter.

Flooding the market with dollars by lowering interest rates is a surefire way to prolong the economic woes of the past few years. You can spend your way back to growth, but it isn't sustainable if people aren't also accumulating wealth at the same time. As long as people are living paycheck to paycheck, consumer confidence will remain low.

Hello inflation. Time to look overseas for investments. Maybe BRIC and SE Asia...

Being able to move assets to banks on short-notice to keep afloat other national banks isn't a 'free money party.' Essentially, they are forced to keep minimums of national currency in the reserve but, allow for cheaper, short-term borrowing. They just lowered the rates.

It's only temporary anyway until 2/2013.

Gunther: Balchinian: So now we are bailing out Europe. WTF?

Strangely enough, the total collapse of the European economy would not be very good for us. It's a good idea to put at least some effort into preventing it.

Yet at the same time is it worth it to prop up what has invariably been a system which is consistent only in its failures? (Note: I'm talking about the global financial system, not just one country here)

TheAlgebraist: I understood all the words in that article, but still have no real idea what it was about:

The U.S. Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank and the central banks of Canada, Britain, Japan and Switzerland said in a joint statement they had agreed to lower the cost of existing dollar swap lines by 50 basis points from December 5.

Other measures included setting up bilateral swap arrangements between the central banks so that any bank could tap additional liquidity in their own currencies if necessary.

Buh?

It's basically the same as printing money, at least the final effects. They are making it cheaper for banks to invest/buy/acquire currency based agreements that obviously increases the demand and amount for said currencies.

LasersHurt: The isolationists are out in full force over this matter.

Are you sure that's what it is? I'm all for supporting the Eurozone. I just don't want to our nation to be financially responsible for places like Italy, Greece, and Spain.

Beluga Heights: LasersHurt: The isolationists are out in full force over this matter.

Are you sure that's what it is? I'm all for supporting the Eurozone. I just don't want to our nation to be financially responsible for places like Italy, Greece, and Spain.

I'm not saying you're wrong in terms of not wanting to get involved in bad risk taking, don't get me wrong. But if Europe tanks, we tank with it. Our financial wellbeing is pegged directly to theirs. I'd rather not get into a lost decade for the entirety of the West, if we can avoid it. And right now, for better or worse, the central banks are the only ones with enough leverage to try to do something about it.

pippi longstocking: TheAlgebraist: I understood all the words in that article, but still have no real idea what it was about:

The U.S. Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank and the central banks of Canada, Britain, Japan and Switzerland said in a joint statement they had agreed to lower the cost of existing dollar swap lines by 50 basis points from December 5.

Other measures included setting up bilateral swap arrangements between the central banks so that any bank could tap additional liquidity in their own currencies if necessary.

Buh?

It's basically the same as printing money, at least the final effects. They are making it cheaper for banks to invest/buy/acquire currency based agreements that obviously increases the demand and amount for said currencies.

Snuh.

video man: I'm not that in-depth on economics, but whatever is happening in Europe, I don't want the US to be part of it.

We already are part of it. We live in a global economy now. Whatever happens there affects us here.

Let the chips fall where they may.

Gunther: Balchinian: So now we are bailing out Europe. WTF?

Strangely enough, the total collapse of the European economy would not be very good for us. It's a good idea to put at least some effort into preventing it.

Thats No Moose: Balchinian: So now we are bailing out Europe. WTF?

Because if the Euro collapses, the US is farked too.

Synchronised Cliff Diving (new window)

So freaking what? We have known our economy is not sustainable since Nixon abandoned the gold standard and started us down the road to Chinese indebtedness under the guise of "foreign policy". Our economic collapse is going to happen with or without the collapse of the EU, and in fact there are European economists who are saying that it is the collapse of the US economy that is behind the collapse of the EU.

LasersHurt: Beluga Heights: LasersHurt: The isolationists are out in full force over this matter.

Are you sure that's what it is? I'm all for supporting the Eurozone. I just don't want to our nation to be financially responsible for places like Italy, Greece, and Spain.

I'm not saying you're wrong in terms of not wanting to get involved in bad risk taking, don't get me wrong. But if Europe tanks, we tank with it. Our financial wellbeing is pegged directly to theirs. I'd rather not get into a lost decade for the entirety of the West, if we can avoid it. And right now, for better or worse, the central banks are the only ones with enough leverage to try to do something about it.

I agree. It's odd because I'm sort of promoting a contradictory opinion. I want to (and understand the importance of) supporting the Euro. I just would want to ameliorate as much risk as possible.

Johnny Savage: RON PAUL


"Um, who?"

Kucinich recently proposed legislation, called the National Emergency Employment Defense (NEED) Act, that would incorporate the Federal Reserve within the United States Treasury and thereby make it accountable to Congress. RON PAUL has been busy touring the nation on a game show called "Who Wants to Be a Trivia Question Answer Following the 2012 Election?"

TheAlgebraist: I understood all the words in that article, but still have no real idea what it was about:

The U.S. Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank and the central banks of Canada, Britain, Japan and Switzerland said in a joint statement they had agreed to lower the cost of existing dollar swap lines by 50 basis points from December 5.

Other measures included setting up bilateral swap arrangements between the central banks so that any bank could tap additional liquidity in their own currencies if necessary.

Buh?

As far as I can tell they're lowering a rate that affects international currency exchanges. Doesn't really seem to be a "bailout" though, and I don't think it's an attempt to actually resolve the Euro crisis. Maybe just prevent a heart attack for now, as we decide whether to diet or exercise.

video man: wmoonfox: fireclown: video man: I'm not that in-depth on economics, but whatever is happening in Europe, I don't want the US to be part of it.

This. We sort of have problems of our own at the moment.

Well, it's a good thing that all world economies are completely segmented, and that there is no bleed-over of financial crises from one to another due to extensive co-dependence.

Oh, wait...

Yes, but, as far as I know, we're better off not helping them and playing damage control here. From what I've read, it's not a question of 'if', but 'when' when it comes to an economic collapse in Western Europe.

Well, part of the problem there is that for every factual piece of reporting on ANYTHING these days there are 3-4 pieces of alarmist, ulterior-motive-laden fluff. Did you see that link to some shiatty blog about the Eurozone collapse that greened earlier? Garbage.

TheAlgebraist: I understood all the words in that article, but still have no real idea what it was about:

The U.S. Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank and the central banks of Canada, Britain, Japan and Switzerland said in a joint statement they had agreed to lower the cost of existing dollar swap lines by 50 basis points from December 5.

Other measures included setting up bilateral swap arrangements between the central banks so that any bank could tap additional liquidity in their own currencies if necessary.

Buh?

I think that means they fixed the water fountains. And their water fountains dispense money instead of water.

video man: I'm not that in-depth on economics, but whatever is happening in Europe, I don't want the US to be part of it.

you're 200 years too late to do anything about it.

Grand_Moff_Joseph: TheAlgebraist: I understood all the words in that article, but still have no real idea what it was about:

The U.S. Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank and the central banks of Canada, Britain, Japan and Switzerland said in a joint statement they had agreed to lower the cost of existing dollar swap lines by 50 basis points from December 5.

Other measures included setting up bilateral swap arrangements between the central banks so that any bank could tap additional liquidity in their own currencies if necessary.

Buh?

IANAEconomist, but this sounds like an attempt to lower the cost of borrowing money, not printing more of it.

Ok, that makes some sense.

I can follow a fair amount of economics, but some of it goes right over my head.

/I'm not a stupid person....
/....but I play one on the Internet.

gwydion56: Gunther: Balchinian: So now we are bailing out Europe. WTF?

Strangely enough, the total collapse of the European economy would not be very good for us. It's a good idea to put at least some effort into preventing it.

Being more serious than my last post, there is truth in this. Thanks to our ever-more-global economy, we all either stand or fall together. The bad news is that it keeps looking more and more like we all get to fall together. This move is an attempt to prevent that, but we are pretty far out on that limb already.

You pretty much nailed it. Globalism is a terrible idea and it may now come back to bite us in our profit-laden butts. This may work and it may not. If it doesn't, things are going to become rather nasty.

This is good news for U.S. exports. (new window)

Can one of you Farkers who understands economics better than I do explain why these central banks felt this was something that had to be done, and done right now? It looks to me like a desperate measure and seemingly indicates that things are much worse than anyone in the know will admit.

Sweet, we get to give more money to banks.

Balchinian: Gunther: Balchinian: So now we are bailing out Europe. WTF?

Strangely enough, the total collapse of the European economy would not be very good for us. It's a good idea to put at least some effort into preventing it.

Thats No Moose: Balchinian: So now we are bailing out Europe. WTF?

Because if the Euro collapses, the US is farked too.

Synchronised Cliff Diving (new window)

So freaking what? We have known our economy is not sustainable since Nixon abandoned the gold standard and started us down the road to Chinese indebtedness under the guise of "foreign policy". Our economic collapse is going to happen with or without the collapse of the EU, and in fact there are European economists who are saying that it is the collapse of the US economy that is behind the collapse of the EU.

Since Poe's Law blew up my sarcasm meter, I'm going to respond.

Do you realise that the same thing that you're advocating as the cure - the gold standard - is the same thing that is hobbling the Europeans? Having a single currency with no way to change liquidity levels is what is killing them.

2008 = 1929
2012 = 1933

Gunther: Strangely enough, the total collapse of the European economy would not be very good for us. It's a good idea to put at least some effort into preventing it.

Maybe the Germans should put some effort into preventing it. The Germans helped create this debacle, but now they're too cheap to clean up their own mess.

Grand_Moff_Joseph: IANAEconomist, but this sounds like an attempt to lower the cost of borrowing money, not printing more of it.

Same thing, basically.

Monetary policy (new window)

Coming to a payday in your near future...

video man: I'm not that in-depth on economics, but whatever is happening in Europe, I don't want the US to be part of it.

Funny how the first clause informs the last.

I'm not crazy about the concentration of the world's wealth within the last decade, but wake up, this is a global economy and has been for longer than most in this thread have been alive.

I approve of whatever country decided to have Phil Jackson on their currency.

So we're basically setting up our last line of defense for when the ECB causes EU collapse by refusing to act as a lender of last resort?