Taking on Turkoglu's contract too...that's a pretty big offer for this early in the process. Granted, the presence of Howard on the Nets would make those first rounders mid-round picks at best, but unless the Lakers were willing to come in with like a Gasol/Bynum/picks package, I doubt anyone else is going to be able to top that offer.

Lakers counter with 2 first round picks, Bynum and a Kardshian.

jayhawk88: Taking on Turkoglu's contract too...that's a pretty big offer for this early in the process. Granted, the presence of Howard on the Nets would make those first rounders mid-round picks at best, but unless the Lakers were willing to come in with like a Gasol/Bynum/picks package, I doubt anyone else is going to be able to top that offer.

I'm with you. In fact, I bet the Lakers would go as far as Gasol/Odom/Bynum if they had to. Wouldn't you?

hawkrock1123: jayhawk88: Taking on Turkoglu's contract too...that's a pretty big offer for this early in the process. Granted, the presence of Howard on the Nets would make those first rounders mid-round picks at best, but unless the Lakers were willing to come in with like a Gasol/Bynum/picks package, I doubt anyone else is going to be able to top that offer.

I'm with you. In fact, I bet the Lakers would go as far as Gasol/Odom/Bynum if they had to. Wouldn't you?

Damn that would certainly mix things up.

The fun has begun.

hawkrock1123: I'm with you. In fact, I bet the Lakers would go as far as Gasol/Odom/Bynum if they had to. Wouldn't you?

I think that would be too much, if only for the "Miami Heat Factor", not being able to have 7 or 8 guys on your roster that were at least competent. Depends on if they could get other players back from Orlando. Maybe if you could get back something like Howard/Redick/Bass it would be worth it, but if you're the Lakers and you made that deal for just Howard or Howard and Hedo, you'd be looking at a starting 5 of:

Howard
Kobe
Artest
Hedo (and he's terrible now)
Fisher? or Brown?
6th man is...Matt Barnes?

Fall apart pretty quickly.

jayhawk88: hawkrock1123: I'm with you. In fact, I bet the Lakers would go as far as Gasol/Odom/Bynum if they had to. Wouldn't you?

I think that would be too much, if only for the "Miami Heat Factor", not being able to have 7 or 8 guys on your roster that were at least competent. Depends on if they could get other players back from Orlando. Maybe if you could get back something like Howard/Redick/Bass it would be worth it, but if you're the Lakers and you made that deal for just Howard or Howard and Hedo, you'd be looking at a starting 5 of:

Howard
Kobe
Artest
Hedo (and he's terrible now)
Fisher? or Brown?
6th man is...Matt Barnes?

Fall apart pretty quickly.

I agree that this team would fall apart, and I have to think that the Lakers are in somewhat of a "win now" mode with Kobe getting older. So you may be right - it may be too much for them.

But on the other hand, picking up Howard gives them a centerpiece for the future, and also allows Kobe to go out gracefully as I don't see Dwight challenging him for "leadership" status (it's just not Howard's personality). Having somebody like Howard makes filling those other holes much easier, especially when combined with the allure of playing for the Lakers. Then again, if they just wait a year, they might be able to simply pick him up as a free agent.

Don't forget - the Heat were pretty close to winning an NBA title last year.

Maybe it's because I'm a Hawks fan and we haven't had a superstar for 20 years, but I just feel like you do what you have to do to get one.

hawkrock1123: Don't forget - the Heat were pretty close to winning an NBA title last year.

True but they also had two of the best 5 players in the NBA as well. Howard and Kobe are both good, but I don't think you could put either of them in the top 5 could you? Maybe not even Top 10 in Kobe's case.

Really, who wouldn't want to trade the best big man in the game for a Charmin soft center who doesn't defend or rebound?

If this deal happens, the Nets better hope these guys buy into this Brooklyn hype or are really susceptible to Russian mafia extortion, otherwise the Nets are Knicks-level screwed if Howard and Williams bolt and the team can't draft a first round talent for the next four years.

robsul82: Pretty good deal. After all, that's the album with the cut of "The River" that begins with an epic introduction where The Boss talks about his dad.

/"and he said, 'that's good'"

Yeah, but they saved "Trapped" for the "We are the world" album. A travesty.

/Now I'd like to do a song about my car

D12 wants to come to Houston along with Chris Paul.

/my fantasies, let me have them.

I hope the Magic at least get something worthwhile for Howard if they can't keep him, I don't want a repeat of the Shaq or McGrady fiascoes.

Sounds like a pretty crappy deal, and I doubt Howard would stay on with the Nets after this season. On the other hand, dumping Hedo Turkoglu would probably help my blood pressure

jayhawk88:

Howard and Kobe are both good, but I don't think you could put either of them in the top 5 could you? Maybe not even Top 10 in Kobe's case.

You don't think Howard's a top 5 player? The Magic were a pretty great team (until the playoffs) which was very highly ranked defensively last season with only one defender on the roster. This is also after they traded their backup center (who would be a legit starter for most teams) for Turkoglu and Richardson.

logggur: jayhawk88:

Howard and Kobe are both good, but I don't think you could put either of them in the top 5 could you? Maybe not even Top 10 in Kobe's case.

You don't think Howard's a top 5 player? The Magic were a pretty great team (until the playoffs) which was very highly ranked defensively last season with only one defender on the roster. This is also after they traded their backup center (who would be a legit starter for most teams) for Turkoglu and Richardson.

Agreed, I would give up some pretty good prospects to have the Polish Hammer anchoring the paint.

LucklessWonder: I hope the Magic at least get something worthwhile for Howard if they can't keep him, I don't want a repeat of the Shaq or McGrady fiascoes.

its happening. In the mean time, can the Celtics trade their 2 rookies from the 2011 draft for Duhon and Redick?

That's not fair. I lent the Nets that record in exchange for Brook Lopez to landscape my yard.

/damn lockout ending ruins EVERYTHING.

There had been rumblings for Dallas to attempt to get Howard. While I love Howard, I think it'd be more interesting to see him go to the Nets or Celtics. Maybe we (Dallas) can pick up Williams or Paul for a new PG.

logggur: jayhawk88:

Howard and Kobe are both good, but I don't think you could put either of them in the top 5 could you? Maybe not even Top 10 in Kobe's case.

You don't think Howard's a top 5 player? The Magic were a pretty great team (until the playoffs) which was very highly ranked defensively last season with only one defender on the roster. This is also after they traded their backup center (who would be a legit starter for most teams) for Turkoglu and Richardson.

He's Top 10 for sure, but no I don't think he's Top 5. My Top 5 would look something like LeBron, Durant, Wade, Rose and Dirk in some order, with maybe Carmelo or Chris Paul sneaking in there if I really sat down and thought about it. Look at the way the league has been headed for the past 10 years. Off the top of your head can you even name half the starting centers playing in the league right now?

I know the argument is that this makes guys like Howard even more valuable, and it's not without merit, but to me the off-the-dribble scoring guards/forwards are, night in and night out, going to be much more dominant and valuable to teams. The hand checking is gone and it's not coming back anytime soon, and it just makes it so easy for guys to dominate by working from the perimeter.

I don't think Howard is quite as good as advertised.

He's kinda like Shaq, but not as physically dominating. He doesn't really have an offensive game and can be kept in check if you have a decent big guy to play him.

moistD: Duhon

Really? I only got to watch the guy play a bunch when he was in NY but he was far from impressive.

And how could you want the C's to get rid of a guy named JaJuan. Just think about Tommy saying that night in night out.

Gunny Highway: moistD: Duhon

Really? I only got to watch the guy play a bunch when he was in NY but he was far from impressive.

And how could you want the C's to get rid of a guy named JaJuan. Just think about Tommy saying that night in night out.

because hes one of my favorite players, and after KG retires in 2012, Ray won't be resigned, PP will finish in 2014 (I think) leaving just rondo. A team with nothing good but rondo who won't be nearly as good without people to make shots around him. Trade him now while hes worth something, or wait till everyone retires or leaves and then suck it up for a long time. So I say trade for 2 players I miss watching night in and night out (thanks to Duke being on national tv constantly, and sneaking into games at Duke to see duhon), we will need a new SG and a Rondo back up never hurts.

MugzyBrown: I don't think Howard is quite as good as advertised.

He's kinda like Shaq, but not as physically dominating. He doesn't really have an offensive game and can be kept in check if you have a decent big guy to play him.

I've been a Magic fan since as long as there's been a Magic to be a fan of, and I can honestly say that Howard is nothing like Shaq. Shaq was dominant. Howard's a force, but he's nowhere near close to Young Shaq levels. Howard reminds me of Patrick Ewing, a really good center, but if he's your #1 uy, you aren't winning a championship. You need a Jordan to Howard's Pippen.

/From a basketball perspective, would like to see Howard somehow land in OKC as second banana to Durant. No way to swing that though.

LucklessWonder: Howard reminds me of Patrick Ewing, a really good center, but if he's your #1 uy, you aren't winning a championship. You need a Jordan to Howard's Pippen.

I don't think he's even Ewing.

Ewing had moves. Turn around jumper. His 4 step drive through the lane running hook.

Howard just has athleticism. He's good if he gets good low possition or can face-up against a slow defender.

MugzyBrown: LucklessWonder: Howard reminds me of Patrick Ewing, a really good center, but if he's your #1 uy, you aren't winning a championship. You need a Jordan to Howard's Pippen.

I don't think he's even Ewing.

Ewing had moves. Turn around jumper. His 4 step drive through the lane running hook.

Howard just has athleticism. He's good if he gets good low possition or can face-up against a slow defender.

ugh I shudder saying this, but hes more like Bill Russell, in that hes a defensive machine, although Bill had more offensive moves.

/well at least thats what I think, they are also good friends

LucklessWonder: /From a basketball perspective, would like to see Howard somehow land in OKC as second banana to Durant. No way to swing that though.

That would be amazing.

moistD: LucklessWonder: I hope the Magic at least get something worthwhile for Howard if they can't keep him, I don't want a repeat of the Shaq or McGrady fiascoes.

its happening. In the mean time, can the Celtics trade their 2 rookies from the 2011 draft for Duhon and Redick?

Obvious bias to point out first... I am a Purdue alum. That said, I think you are talking crazy. E'Twaun has the potential to be your Ray Allen - I am serious. And JJ is a beast of a player, he can play inside and out. He can be your KG without the crazy factor (I will admit that I will be shocked if he ever gets as good as KG, but he is not a bad replacement at all)

Now replacing Pierce,that will be tough for you guys.

The worst part, as a Bulls fan, is a part of me is pulling for a team I hate in the C's because of 3'Twaun and JJ

Sometimes it's good to be a lousy team. Those picks are actually worth something! The Lakers haven't had a good pick in years (although that weird Marc Gasol pick, I'm still not sure how that worked).

p the boiler: moistD: LucklessWonder: I hope the Magic at least get something worthwhile for Howard if they can't keep him, I don't want a repeat of the Shaq or McGrady fiascoes.

its happening. In the mean time, can the Celtics trade their 2 rookies from the 2011 draft for Duhon and Redick?

Obvious bias to point out first... I am a Purdue alum. That said, I think you are talking crazy. E'Twaun has the potential to be your Ray Allen - I am serious. And JJ is a beast of a player, he can play inside and out. He can be your KG without the crazy factor (I will admit that I will be shocked if he ever gets as good as KG, but he is not a bad replacement at all)

Now replacing Pierce,that will be tough for you guys.

The worst part, as a Bulls fan, is a part of me is pulling for a team I hate in the C's because of 3'Twaun and JJ

hey, I am not saying they won't be good parts on the team. But once the big 3 retires, the only thing of high value will be Rondo, and who knows how long that will last after he can't dish to 3 hall of famers. I only want the trade for my own personal enjoyment, it is in no way a smart trade.

jayhawk88:

He's Top 10 for sure, but no I don't think he's Top 5. My Top 5 would look something like LeBron, Durant, Wade, Rose and Dirk in some order, with maybe Carmelo or Chris Paul sneaking in there if I really sat down and thought about it. Look at the way the league has been headed for the past 10 years. Off the top of your head can you even name half the starting centers playing in the league right now?

I know the argument is that this makes guys like Howard even more valuable, and it's not without merit, but to me the off-the-dribble scoring guards/forwards are, night in and night out, going to be much more dominant and valuable to teams. The hand checking is gone and it's not coming back anytime soon, and it just makes it so easy for guys to dominate by working from the perimeter.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I guess that it really is the dearth of great centers that makes him so valuable, as I agree Shaq, Olajuwon, Ewing, and Robinson were all much more talented centers. The thing about Howard that interests me is that he's never really had another GREAT player on his roster and they're still perennially very good. I think it'd be pretty awesome to see what he could do with a really efficient wing scorer.

Also for the record (not trying to be snarky, I'm supremely bored) I can confidently name 17 centers off the top of my head.

logggur: jayhawk88:

He's Top 10 for sure, but no I don't think he's Top 5. My Top 5 would look something like LeBron, Durant, Wade, Rose and Dirk in some order, with maybe Carmelo or Chris Paul sneaking in there if I really sat down and thought about it. Look at the way the league has been headed for the past 10 years. Off the top of your head can you even name half the starting centers playing in the league right now?

I know the argument is that this makes guys like Howard even more valuable, and it's not without merit, but to me the off-the-dribble scoring guards/forwards are, night in and night out, going to be much more dominant and valuable to teams. The hand checking is gone and it's not coming back anytime soon, and it just makes it so easy for guys to dominate by working from the perimeter.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. I guess that it really is the dearth of great centers that makes him so valuable, as I agree Shaq, Olajuwon, Ewing, and Robinson were all much more talented centers. The thing about Howard that interests me is that he's never really had another GREAT player on his roster and they're still perennially very good. I think it'd be pretty awesome to see what he could do with a really efficient wing scorer.

Also for the record (not trying to be snarky, I'm supremely bored) I can confidently name 17 centers off the top of my head.

you mean Jameer Nelson isn't really an all-star?
/I'll attempt to name 17 right now: Jermaine O'Neal, Howard, Horford, Bynum, Bogut, Kaman, Lopez, Polish Hammer, Big Z (I can't spell his real name), Perkins, Chandler, Nene, Noah...

Not sure if Duncan, either Gasol (aren't they both technically power forwards?), Javal McGee, Al Jefferson, and some others count as I think they are power forwards that play Center occasionally.

/The 76ers have Elton B., but hes a PF, who IS their center?

MugzyBrown: LucklessWonder: Howard reminds me of Patrick Ewing, a really good center, but if he's your #1 uy, you aren't winning a championship. You need a Jordan to Howard's Pippen.

I don't think he's even Ewing.

Ewing had moves. Turn around jumper. His 4 step drive through the lane running hook.

Howard just has athleticism. He's good if he gets good low possition or can face-up against a slow defender.

Howard looked pretty damn impressive offensively against the Hawks in the playoffs this year. I agree that he could definitely improve his offense, but I think his defense puts him in the Top 5 NBA players.

Terrible free-throws, bad passing out of the post, poor shooting ability (dunks excluded) and biggest problem NOT THAT TALL (meaning he'll be much less useful as his ups go down with age). Would be infinitely better off with a pure D center or PF and invest in offensive talent elsewhere.

cefm: Terrible free-throws, bad passing out of the post, poor shooting ability (dunks excluded) and biggest problem NOT THAT TALL (meaning he'll be much less useful as his ups go down with age). Would be infinitely better off with a pure D center or PF and invest in offensive talent elsewhere.

He's Ben Wallace with a face-up game

She comes in colors everywhere: robsul82: Pretty good deal. After all, that's the album with the cut of "The River" that begins with an epic introduction where The Boss talks about his dad.

/"and he said, 'that's good'"

Yeah, but they saved "Trapped" for the "We are the world" album. A travesty.

/Now I'd like to do a song about my car

Yes. But the live version of "The Promised Land" rocks, as does "Rosalita."